- Location
- United States
I'm not trying to down play your value. If you read my previous post, I was advocating building war carts and expanding pastures the turn after next.
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
While I do like the idea of overwater colonies, we're still a long ways from that. But yeah improving our finishing and having deep water sailboats would be great.
- Location
- Hell
Meh, part of the reason I would like to do it earlier is that that would be another generation for our people to get swole since that is still a big part of war in this time.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
They don't even have to be overwater colonies, they could just be a chain of coastal ones. Better ship access would let us reach the northern coastal terrain bordering the nomadic territory - i.e. the area the coastal river comes from - and its opposite to the south, areas previously rendered less accessible due to the particularly broken terrain. With work parties at either end, we could then establish trails connecting between these villages along the coast. From these points we would work inland, consolidating our grasp on the hills with step farms and forests until we hit a flatter and non-forested area, where we would establish walled settlements and from there slowly expand, establishing forests and pasture.
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My opinion on the matter depends heavily on what the Dead Priests do. In general, though, I have two ideas.
Plan 1:
Turn 1-
[Main] Build Wall-New Settlement
[Secondary] War Mission- Dead Priests
[Secondary] New Settlement- Lowlands
Turn 2-
[Main] Expand Woods
[Secondary] War Mission- Dead Priests
[Secondary] Expand Pastures
Plan 2:
Turn 1-
[Main] New Settlement- Lowlands
[Secondary] War Mission- Dead Priests
[Secondary] Expand Pastures
Turn 2-
[Main] Expand Woods
[Secondary] War Mission- Dead Priests
[Secondary] Build Wall- New Settlement
We're going to want to expand our forests down there eventually, and the sooner we do it the sooner they can age into truly powerful defenses. My biggest concern is the Dead Priest Retaliation. If they are distracted enough I am willing to hold off on the walls, but I really want to get the woods up for a source of wood for the area, and so our people can fight in our favored terrain (woods).
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Why not expand forests in turn 1 of plan two, then expand pastures? While a Main action would allow for more forest to be planted, a more spread out Secondary action performed earlier would allow for the density to steadily fill itself in. Admittedly, however, the better diet provided by Expand Pastures will increase our people's musculature in a more delayed manner than the forest - due to cultural issues in addition to the normal biological ones.
You're also not increasing our War Cart or sacred soldier #'s at all, but I'll admit that the New Trails, New Settlement, and easier access to materials given by Expand Forest would lead to a natural increase in cart numbers.
It still leaves the Blackbirds and etc. underfunded, but they haven't proved exceedingly powerful as of yet.
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Because I want it to be a main focus. I fully expect it to take an immense amount of effort to get forests started in the lowlands, and I want a main action to do it with.
Also, yes, I fully expect increased logistics to greatly help with our ability to fund, but again, I don't expect this war to be over soon. If our answer to our problems is constantly 'increase troop count' then we may finish the war faster, but it will be more costly. By taking time to do economic projects that also increase the war effort during the war, we can make gains. In the case of the forest it would give us an advanced push against the desertification going on in the area, in addition to claiming more land. If we were to wait on that, the desertification may be much harder to fight. We can then wait 2-3 turns and then do another turtle expand, hopefully getting things like fishing, study forest, and survey land out in the mean time.
Edit: Also expand forest will be stronger if we already have a settlement set up.
- Location
- United States
IIRC the black birds have excelled at assassination and recon, but not at straight up melee. Honestly, they seem very, very useful.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
~ When I said "exceedingly powerful" I was including their skills at assassination and recon. If they end up regularly taking down the leadership of the DP I will considering them powerful - though their usefulness in that respect will depend on the DP not changing their habits. E.g. having subordinates pretend to be leaders, using tracking dogs, etc.
- Location
- United States
I'm pretty sure we could have the Black Birds specifically target the DP leadership (military leaders, priests, overseers, etc), they would need a larger group though in order to make a dent.
Yeah, they're just a squad at the moment...so they can't accomplish a whole lot (since they don't scale in population as much as our warriors do). But they did steal 2 different techs from the dead priests
Edit: Clearing up wording issue.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I thought they WERE going to scale? It just makes sense that they would recruit young kiddos and be like "you seem like you have justice and a love of flowers in your heart, how'd you like to shoot bad guys?" Or, Batman style, 1) they find a kid the night their parents get murdered 2) they find a kid stealing things and are like "instead of killing them I'll try to restore harmony by giving him/her/sie a job" 3) their identity gets discovered and they're like "wow, ur not a fucktard"I'm pretty sure we could have the Black Birds specifically target the DP leadership (military leaders, priests, overseers, etc), they would need a larger group though in order to make a dent.
Yeah, they're just a squad at the moment...so they can't accomplish a whole lot (since they don't scale in population as our warriors do). But they did steal 2 different techs from the dead priests
They're very nice, but they aren't going to win the war. We have settlements we need to raid, armies to defeat, etc. I suspect we can't make enough of a dent in their leadership via assassinations before they wise up, and I'd rather have them just not even understand what stealth is in the meantime, let alone that we have it.I'm pretty sure we could have the Black Birds specifically target the DP leadership (military leaders, priests, overseers, etc), they would need a larger group though in order to make a dent.
Yeah, they're just a squad at the moment...so they can't accomplish a whole lot (since they don't scale in population as our warriors do). But they did steal 2 different techs from the dead priests
- Location
- United States
Sorry for the confusion, I was saying that they don't scale in pop as much as our warriors do, not that they don't at all.
Yeah, they aren't gonna single handedly win the war, but they're a very good modifier to have. I'm just saying that, if we took 2+ actions towards expanding the ranks, they would have enough people to make a large dent in the DP leadership. I agree that other actions are better at the moment.
I just don't want them, or anyone else for that matter, to even consider units devoted to recon is even a thing for as long as possible. That is, I'd much rather be the only one to have map reveal than assassination power.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I think that being the only one with map reveal will last until they're like, "We've tried to do raids three times but they somehow were there all three times. How?" It doesn't help that we assassinated people otw to the wall, too. Though they may have been quiet, idk.
We might as well just do it 20 times and convert all of our population into leaf-clad assassins.
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- Location
- Las Islas Filipinas
I wonder if we could use them to incite a slave revolt? Like, have them kill all of the overseers in a few areas to the point where the slaves have no one watching them. If it succeeds the DP have crisis in their hands. And even if the revolt fails the DP might be inclined to make an example to the rest of the slaves, which would cause their economy to drop
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
It would successfully allow for a revolt by crippled slaves who would gradually hobble away, yes.
Primarily to head this shit off in the future. Stability issues stem from uncertainty, causing corruption and generating more corruption sourced uncertainty in a feedback loop.
We cannot practically do anything about the uncertainty in the future, but we CAN close off corruption as an aggravating element if we can just enforce it.
Secondarily, to attempt to evolve Holy War with a Justice fusion. Longshot, but that's one way out of this thing...
Is that what happened when they tried to assimilate our Harmony practices?
From a past turn I think they might have copied Eye for an Eye(which gave them the change in slavery practies), then tried to copy Gardeners/Harmony and failed?
That wall is solid heresy there.
Maybe getting warning of natural disasters before they arrive for the ST esoterica?
Sounds like they're exhausting the mid-layer of the soil there systematically. Need to replenish the deep black soil.
Windbreaks, which basically meant trees, which not only steal energy from the wind, but also capture and return escaping debris via leaves, as well as maintain organic mass bulk to retain water with.
Basically, though we're going to need to push settlements first.
Not quite. It's a cycle of bad soil. There's plenty of water, the problem is that the damaged soil would not support a sapling until it punches through the ruined layer and reaches the deeper soil and aquifers. Basically the trees need a little help getting anchored, and then they'd need to be irrigated(which we do!), until they hit the stabilizing point.
Most of the lowland trees have been cut down for materials to boot, as their clay working industry and constructions all use a lot of prized wood.
1) Not quite. We've planted forests after burning and sterilizing entire sections of blighted forest, replaced the soil with Black Soil, then replanted it.
2) Fortunately you need a sample of soil with those things that can supply the microlife, which is what the Black Soil is.
3) However we're going to need to import the wildlife...after it's already cultivated. Transporting beehives would be...exciting.
As AN had said before, New Settlement is not Econ 0. It's Econ 0 on first turn, then starts generating more Economy on the next turn. Delayed gratification. We're still going to be on track.
Blackbirds are much more powerful when used with fortifications incidentally. Having prior warning of an incoming raid means we can evacuate the farmers and field workers into the settlement walls, and then have our carts move out.
Already know that's wrong btw. New settlement means a near-site workbase that can manufacture tools and weapons, as well as produce food locally. It also makes it easier to put another settlement further downriver and so on. New Trails help with logistics, but when it's a month's travel to replace any broken carts...yeah.
...wouldn't having a local source instead of a 1 month import route for even basic food and weapon supply dramatically cut the cost of prosecuting a war?
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I think Study Forest would impact the efficacy of the forest expansion, regardless.
Also, black soil wouldn't necessarily have all the appropriate micro-organisms. It depends on if it was done near trees and using soil from those trees rather than just clay shards, waste, and charcoal. Even if soil is used, of course, the environment of the black soil pits would partly skew the microbial populations... but whatever. Black soil will definitely help with a lot of things and all it would take to transplant the appropriate soil fauna and fungi is planting a sapling or two in pots w/ original soil and then replanting both the tree and the soil in the lowlands.
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- Location
- Las Islas Filipinas
It doesnt matter how crippled they are, a good roll of the dice would still be enough to distract the DP. But then it hasn't really been an available option yet so...
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
It would 100% increase the caution in regards to managing the slaves which would help decrease their econ. And repeated raids on the overlords would steadily decrease the relevant population (of overseers*) and increase their unwillingness to do stuff w/o guards, eventually leading to instability starting from the lower class and moving upward.
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- Location
- Hell
I'm pretty sure Study Forest gives us Mysticism more than anything else- we're studying the secrets of the forest with our shamans. If we roll well it likely also gives us some other related advantages that the shamans decide are worth immediately publicizing, so it'll possibly help a little but probably not much. It's great if we want to make another sect of spiritual warriors though.
(Also, you probably should try to only quote the part relevant to what you're responding to)
@Sivantic
I really don't think that making an unwalled settlement is a good idea. The DP's entire system relies upon raiding unprotected towns, and that's basically what we would have if we didn't wall it off at all. A DP raiding group could get in and wreak some major havoc that we wouldn't be able to deal with. We could probably get away with delaying the walls by 1 turn, but any further and we're taking some major unnecessary risks.
- Location
- Hell
Yes I agree they should be walled, but they are on the far end of the Western Confederacy. They would have to go through them first. I'm fully willing to Main Wall them the turn after we build the Settlement so that we can Main Settlement this turn to ensure that our village is a viable trade spot, regardless of how new it is.