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Paths of Civilization

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Ghostdevil said:
I hope you guys realize that Py w/e the fuck is going to break our pacifist streak, hes going to actively Wage War, if its not against the nomads it goes against our values of only defense and offense in that defense
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He can't to my understanding.

He's gonna do the mega project because that is mandatory and then do a main chariots.

If he can though I am okay with letting go of our pacifist streak.
 
bluefur87 said:
*Looks at update.*

Well, that's not bad.

*Sees what people are voting for and remembers the general stances the thread has claimed.*

...

I mean, I see where AN got the idea that this would be a super contentious vote, now, but a lot of people here are taking some interesting viewpoints here to support their claims. As such.
[X] [King] Rulwyna (Main Expand Econ)
[X] [Hat] Yes, become a Colony
[X] [Refugee] Encourage resettlement (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)

No discussion or analysis from me. It's tiring for people to not actually listen to you, or to listen to you and then change their mind a couple hours later, managing to forget your actual stance on anything.
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Don't want to sound pestering, but I would like to know why you would puck the puppet king over anyone else.

All the options are bad, but I would think the child manipulated by oligarchs would be the worst and longest lasting.

It gives me flashbacks of the idiot chariot riding heir that was killed by a kick to the head from his horse a long time ago, and how the oligarchs basically ruled the nation.
 
Early tally to see how this landslide of bronze age crap is sliding.
Adhoc vote count started by Motoko on Jun 29, 2017 at 12:27 AM, finished with 63852 posts and 40 votes.
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Jun 29, 2017 at 12:26 AM, finished with 63850 posts and 40 votes.
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[x] [King] Phygrif (-1 Legitimacy, Main Build Chariots, Heavens Hawk become a March)
[x] [Hat] Yes, become a Colony
[x] [Refugee] Take in as many as possible (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, different benefits if Hatvalley a colony)

Didn't we just devote a secondary war mission and the Bed Banners to help the north? After having a northern king and his daughter rule? Somehow I don't think that Phygrif is going to break the country in half.
 
[X] [King] Dythuwyn (+1 Stability, Sec Expand Econ + Sec Art Patronage)
[X] [Hat] Yes, become a Colony
[X] [Refugee] Encourage resettlement (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)

Dyth is an asshole but he's competent, ruthlessly so. He also legitimately can do the job and do it well. And he won't stick around for longer than a turn if he really is a fuck up.
Golden Boy is incompetent and we're still vaguely a meritocracy, I'm not electing a child just to spit on that.
Phygrif is...interesting, but warmongering in that direction is so-so. Taking more territory out there is kinda pointless since it just overextends us and we can't hold it. Unless he can absorb the Metal Workers, I'd be okay-ish with that.
 
Hm. Well. I'm opposed to War man, propagator of War, so I'll be voting on whatever looks like it might be able to beat that.

I'll check the vote later and toss my vote at whatever has the best shot of beating the nomad.
 
I think we can cope with a turn of military ambition, especially since it might be very productive in the current climate. And hey, building chariots is something of a long-term investment, at least.

I don't hate the merchant, and he's apparently loyal to Rulwyna's family, so maybe he could be trusted to guide the kid. But I see no particular reason for her to take the throne, since we don't have or want a hereditary position.

Plus, picking a semi-outsider should strengthen Cosmopolitan Acceptance, right?

[X] [King] Phygrif (-1 Legitimacy, Main Build Chariots, Heavens Hawk become a March)

The other two choices are easy. We're already on Restoration policy with high Stability. Don't leave those poor people to starve or be killed by bandits!

[X] [Hat] Yes, become a Colony
[X] [Refugee] Take in as many as possible (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, different benefits if Hatvalley a colony)
 
Sivantic said:
Phygrif is the one that solidifies the north/south divide even more so.

It says it right there

He would be moving to increase the divide between or northern and southern provinces. He does not say that he would try to promote working together, he is saying that he would make it so the northern provinces no longer need to heed the southern provinces.
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Er, I'm pretty sure you are misinterpreting that. 'Wedge open the door for further moves against the southern influence networks that had become increasingly entrenched against them' means that he's going to make sure northerners can get into the halls of power just like the southern oligarchs can. It does not mean that he's going to make that divide grow even more. There is literally no reason for him to do that, while he has all the reason in the world to get northerners into good positions.

And lucky for him, we just opened up a bunch of minor chieftain positions the heir was supposed to fill.
 
I just am unsure as to one thing in this whole situation: are we still operating with the rules that only heroic admin characters can overrule the voter's choice and push their own actions, or is that rule null in the face of each of the candidate's agenda?

Because if that rule still holds, Phy can boast about whatever he wants in his agenda, but us as the voters (representing the chiefs) will ultimately make moderating decisions and can use his heroic martial better than mindlessly wage straightout wars of aggression.

Still, do note that Phy's appointment will undoubtedly slow, if not reverse the integration of the north, as hinted by AN's post. Not a dealbreaker for me, just something to consider.
 
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Raichu1972 said:
Don't want to sound pestering, but I would like to know why you would puck the puppet king over anyone else.

All the options are bad, but I would think the child manipulated by oligarchs would be the worst and longest lasting.

It gives me flashbacks of the idiot chariot riding heir that was killed by a kick to the head from his horse a long time ago, and how the oligarchs basically ruled the nation.
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1. The puppet may not actually turn out to become a puppet,
2. The child actually has a good chance of learning and giving us the biggest payout
3. I don't like the thought of using a conquer hungry dude or an old guy as a hard set king. (golden boy ain't even a legit option to consider...)
 
Susano said:
Once again, the artisan guilds are the most socially mobile power centre we have left. So, a made man who still mooore or lessss made it himself. Not as much as the Trump candidate maybe, but nobody wants him.
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He owes everything to the royal family so he definitely had some un-quantified amount of help, but in this age you kinda need that sort of help.

I think Dwy is my second choice.
 
Academia Nut said:
He'll probably strengthen the north/conquer territory for everyone.

Whether you want the north strong right now is a different question.
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So, if i'm guessing right, it's a double-edged sword of "the north feels less left out and less likely to break away" and "the north's more divergent beliefs that we may not like will be able to more easily propagate to the rest of our civ"?
 
notgreat said:
Phygrif is going to do stupid actions, but making another March is awesome and it helps fix the South/North divide.
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Motoko said:
I can't believe you guys are supporting a martial buildup and a king with conquering as an agenda! Phygrif isn't what we need right now, atleast go with Dythuwyn if not the child King because he's got more relevant things for the people in mind.. ALSO: we don't need another March! We need stability and our economy running properly!
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Raichu1972 said:
Hmmm, just went looking through the project options and found this:

[] War Mission
-Target Options: Northern Nomads, Xohyssiri (Baby Eaters)

So Nomad King could go conquer the lowlands, which would make sense but we have no casus beli for, or the Xoh, who are known to us as baby eaters and would likely have a lot of popular support.

It depends on what he means by conquer I suppose.

Would he focus more on "conquering" the lowlands by expanding into it, or on "conquering" the Xoh in what would likely be a war of humiliation?

Not sure, but don't have any major problems with either one.
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He'll have a bit of a problem forcing that conquering on us when he'll be in charge a turn and likely wont take over said turn:
Academia Nut said:
Probably not.
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Like, its not a "absolutely not", but do you really think we'd get that as an answer if its something we can't really change? Like...whoever we pick they'realmost certainly not going to take over this coming turn...

Sivantic said:
He makes the Northern Provinces happy...by helping them ignore Southern Influences.

Phygrif is planning to break us in half.


[X] [King] Rulwyna (Main Expand Econ)
[X] [Hat] Yes, become a Colony
[X] [Refugee] Take in as many as possible (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, different benefits if Hatvalley a colony)

Going with Rulwyna. When the other choices are corruption, I am going to go with the child.
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Sivantic said:
Phygrif is the one that solidifies the north/south divide even more so.

It says it right there

He would be moving to increase the divide between or northern and southern provinces. He does not say that he would try to promote working together, he is saying that he would make it so the northern provinces no longer need to heed the southern provinces.
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Err, what that "says right there" to me is that one of the biggest problems with the divide is that no one in the north has any influence in the grand scheme of things, because all the wealth and important things are in the south, putting a wedge in the southern power structures helps the divide, because suddenly the north has an actual damn say in things, instead of being sidelined.
 
The nomad king has one big issue if we don't pick him: a loyal army.

Romes mistake was not rewarding their barbarian allies and those having loyal armies to press their agenda.

And while Chariots would be troublesome, we do get a lot of Econ, the Hatriver provinces are liable to provide some wealth too and we stop bleeding wealth from the Heaven Hawks.

And this is a good choice if we want to reduce the Oligarchs power a bit. The other two are either a useful idiot, a puppet or quite dangerous to North-South relations.
 
Karugus said:
No... He's planning on leveraging his kingship to get the North more political relevance and influence against the Oligarchal families that utterly dominate the South and are entrenched against the North.

Giving the North more stake and influence in how the People are actually governed is pretty much the best way to keep them around right now. I know it's sort of hard to consider, but breaking the political dominance of the South is a good thing.
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We are the Southern Provinces. It is causing them to listen to us even less.
Candesce said:
Leave it that I think this is one of your more spectacular misreadings of what's going on.

The "southern influence networks" they want to break up are the ones driving the north apart from the rest of the Ymaryn; breaking them is all to the good.
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???

That isn't what is driving the north from the south, it is the lack of connections. If he wanted to help the northerners he would have proposed more boats or more trails. But he isnt, his agenda is conquest. What direction of conquest you think he will take to make the north more powerful? Northward, into the steppes.
 
[X] [King] Phygrif (-1 Legitimacy, Main Build Chariots, Heavens Hawk become a March)
[X] [Hat] Yes, become a Colony
[X] [Refugee] Take in as many as possible (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, different benefits if Hatvalley a colony)

Phygrif is an outsider who knows little of administration, yes. This means he will have to share power which means his excesses will be tempered unlike the others' while also making the Northern provinces feel more invested in the government.
 
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