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Paths of Civilization

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DragonParadox said:
If something like the Mongols shows up we either pay tribute of die. Full stop.
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While that's true, what made the Mongols special wasn't military tech. It was heroic administration making a stable nomad nation instead of a temporary horde.

To put it in quest terms, Genghis Khan managed to make a high centralization government for a horde.

That's EXCEPTIONALLY difficult.
 
Abby Normal said:
Err, bronze is, on a per weapon basis, better than iron. The advantage with iron is that its a hell of a lot more common (we have i think 4 iron mines between us and our subordinates, as opposed to i think a single copper mine and no tin...and that single copper mine + our trading post near the MW is enough for our copper trading to be "significant", while the MW having a "single tiny tin mine" is still a major source for the area.), and i think maybe easier to work? So we can have almost every warrior and laborer have iron weapons and tools and even arrowheads, whereas bronze is going to be rare enough to be limited at first to elite warriors and even with more expansion probably still wouldn't be truly widespread like we have iron.
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Since we not only do not have tin but are also unlikely to get it my point stands, a copper mine is something we can hand out so is something like a marble quarry.
 
pblur said:
While that's true, what made the Mongols special wasn't military tech. It was heroic administration making a stable nomad nation instead of a temporary horde.

To put it in quest terms, Genghis Khan managed to make a high centralization government for a horde.

That's EXCEPTIONALLY difficult.
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That's one. Two, no less important, is looted Chinese engineers allowing him to succesfully siege walled cities.
 
BungieONI said:
6 is probably gold, so 7 would be too and 8 is our red max.
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If 6 is gold, 7 is red. That's how it works for Centralisation and Hierarchy.

Candesce said:
And boy is that going to hurt when the nomads finally bulk up enough to take it from us.

Which they will.

I'd rather not crank up the degree it's going to hurt any further.
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We'll want the Great Dam up before then. The water that would give the Stallion Tribes would let them plant forests for days.
 
Candesce said:
And boy is that going to hurt when the nomads finally bulk up enough to take it from us.
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Bulk up in the sense of getting horse cavalry or...?

They're not going to expand in terms of numbers, as they've presumably reached the limits of economic capability long ago.

DragonParadox said:
Two points:
  1. There is no indication the heroes unified anything close to the entire Not!Eurasian steppe.
  2. The nomads are not yet as dangerous as they will be. They do not have horses. If something like the Mongols shows up we either pay tribute of die. Full stop.
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1. They do not have cavalry, you mean.
2. Cutting them off will reduce the ability of the horse cavalry tech to spread from one side to the other.
3. Yeah, the Genghis Khan did pretty good. We'll have to start preparing for that at some point, and if they show up not possessing more land is hardly going to turn around the "tribute or die" situation. What was it that made him and him alone such a success, again?
4. We're already dedicated to acquiring the MW, which expands our borders regardless.
tldr: do or die

Abby Normal said:
Err, bronze is, on a per weapon basis, better than iron.
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is it actually? I'm 60% certain it's inferior in hardness and workability. You'd think we'd still be using it for expensive blades, otherwise.

I'd appreciate a source on this.
 
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So @Candesce and the thread which is better as a replacement for my Chibi!Ymaryn Vampire meme which did not have feathers, the heretic.

Doeful Ymaryn?



Or Serious Senpai Ymaryn?


Vote now on this Strawpoll! Who is the best!?
 
@BungieONI B plz
@Candesce Cutting them in half and having a higher volume of arable land to supply more economy to supply more troops is worth the increased surface area. Or we could just give up on the MW, build a wall around what we already possess, and invade the lowlands as fast as possible in an attempt to beat the spread and refinement of horse cavalry. I'm fine with either one, they both lead to Genghis Khan beating our iron scale armor and proclaiming himself king.
 
Umi-san said:
Doeful Ymaryn

the one quoted
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Wanted to make sure because English is a bullshit language sometimes and I'm starting to feel my brain getting stupid as the day goes on? [Native English speaker]


Candesce said:
I did quote one of your titles, there.

But it was the cute girl.

At least, I'm pretty sure only one of those pictures is a girl.
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Just making sure :p

RE: gender.

You never really can tell with anime unless they stick watermelons on them can you...


Funnily enough I have seen manga where doeful would be a guy and serious senpai would be a girl. Weird stuff but good.
 
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I can not believe there is more support for settling the steppes rather then the extremely fertile Lowlands. Our own land has shitty soil which only after thousands of years of terraforming gives us plus 4 econ while the lowlands get plus 6 econ right off the bat. The steppes will be even drier without even step farming to help it along which we had. Guys please let's focus on conquering the lowlands so we can have the intensive man power to settle the steppes and crush nomads hordes without serious danger.
 
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BungieONI said:
Bishounen
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I'm perfectly fine with Bishounen, ezra miller is occasionally cute, but the Bishoujo lie... no.

@ETA50M I mean... it didn't take thousands of years for our land to give us 4 econ slots per settlement, just till we got black soil and step farms. If you can pull together a coalition for the invasion of the lowlands I'll support you. But that seems quite unlikely to me.

Step farms won't help on flat land, no. But chinampas and canals will.
 
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Umi-san said:
is it actually? I'm 60% certain it's inferior in hardness and workability. You'd think we'd still be using it for expensive blades, otherwise.

I'd appreciate a source on this.
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I looked for an authoritative source and found a lot of historians arguing. :o

The best evidence is that roman centurians continued using bronze swords after the soldiers were using iron. This could simply have been because bronze doesn't rust and was 'close enough'.

I can also attest from personal experience in a machine shop that modern bronze holds an edge much better than modern wrought iron.

But I can't pretend that the modern versions of either of those are the same as primitive smelting produces.
 
pblur said:
I looked for an authoritative source and found a lot of historians arguing. :o

The best evidence is that roman centurians continued using bronze swords after the soldiers were using iron. This could simply have been because bronze doesn't rust and was 'close enough'.

I can also attest from personal experience in a machine shop that modern bronze holds an edge much better than modern wrought iron.

But I can't pretend that the modern versions of either of those are the same as primitive smelting produces.
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You'd think that they would just attempt to replicate roman-era smelting and hire people to hit each other rather than spend a bunch of time arguing.
 
pblur said:
I looked for an authoritative source and found a lot of historians arguing. :o

The best evidence is that roman centurians continued using bronze swords after the soldiers were using iron. This could simply have been because bronze doesn't rust and was 'close enough'.

I can also attest from personal experience in a machine shop that modern bronze holds an edge much better than modern wrought iron.

But I can't pretend that the modern versions of either of those are the same as primitive smelting produces.
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Part of the situation too is that the reason we don't really use bronze in the modern era is because of steel, which is better than bronze.

Umi-san said:
I'm perfectly fine with Bishounen, ezra miller is occasionally cute, but the Bishoujo lie... no.

@ETA50M I mean... it didn't take thousands of years for our land to give us 4 econ slots per settlement, just till we got black soil and step farms. If you can pull together a coalition for the invasion of the lowlands I'll support you. But that seems quite unlikely to me.

Step farms won't help on flat land, no. But chinampas and canals will.
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You actually got them mixed up! Let me elucidate you on the horror! :p

Bishōjo (美少女, literally "beautiful girl", also spelled bishoujo) is a Japanese term for a beautiful young girl, usually below young adult age. Bishōjo is not listed as a word in the prominent Japanese dictionary (Kōjien). A variant of the word, biyōjo (美幼女) refers to a beautiful girl before the age of adolescence.

Bishōnen (美少年, also transliterated bishounen (help. · info)) is a Japanese term literally meaning "beautiful youth (boy)" and describes an aesthetic that can be found in disparate areas in East Asia: a young man whose beauty (and sexual appeal) transcends the boundary of gender or sexual orientation.
 
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