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Paths of Civilization

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Abby Normal said:
I mean, i am thinking she's probably Heroic Martial/Heroic Mysticism/Exceptional Admin or Heroic Martial/Exceptional Mysticism/Good Admin or something...hence why i'm really sad that glassworks is winning and she won't have as strong a power base to become king :(
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I also want her to be our King. I want the Glassworks for "the small chance of innovation". We need something to make her stand out.
 
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Citino said:
Kinda hilarious that we often can't get rid of econ expansion fast enough, and econ is rarely a stat that we worry about getting more of, but rather one we worry we have too much of.

#YmarynProblems
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Well I don't know about our Econ itself though Expansion is spot on.

We ride the Happy!OHGODWHY!Pendulum on that one. Looks like a drunken bumblebee.
 
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
Right now, I don't think we want a second True City; I don't think we can actually benefit from extra Econ Expansion right now, and if anything we want less Econ Expansion to avoid losing the True City we do have.

Without that bonus, I think that losing Stability hurts us more than extra econ helps us.


[X] [Value] Highlanders

CoT is valuable, but it also comes with a potential for setting stuff on fire - and right now, I think I'm willing to trade less resources for less fires that we need to put out. Especially since we do get a value to replace it - and I really like what a Highlanders value might offer us.

For one thing, getting closer to the Highlanders value-wise makes us more capable of cooperation or diplo-annexation, which everyone likes the idea of. For another thing, this has a change of getting us an improved Stability-recovery option... which would be phenomenally valuable to us.

Right now, I think I can confidently say that our Civ's biggest bottleneck is with the inability to restore stability in a reasonable fashion. We currently have Cosmopolitan Acceptance (which gives us resource gains in exchange for stability), and we have the Stewards Kicker action (which lets us pay stability to get what are effectively additional actions), but we can't really use either of these things reliably because they cost stability that we have no good way of getting back. Our best bet is the Proclaim Glory + Enforce Justice combo, but that requires most of our actions for a turn to grant +2 stability, and our provinces and peripheral states basically never take those actions for us. Having a better option on hand would be wonderful.
 
veekie said:
Except they can't. There's no glass to use beyond small experimental projects. If we push on the Dye side, then because of how lucrative it is, they'd start the processes with pottery containers, which in turn means that the Potters will be pushing AGAINST the Glassmakers because the development will be eating into the Potters market share AFTER giving the Dyers a lot of use for pottery to make the new dyes.

You know, the same Potters running assassinations to try to stop the idea of Glass because they saw a threat?


Second True City would probably shut down a few turns after it forms, yes.
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Except that is not true. We push into the Dye side the provinces will take glasswork themselves as regular pottery doesn't work as well.

Glasswork would not lead to the use of the Vitriol because no one even knows that it is even a thing yet.

Oh yes, the double critfail. Yes, that is very normal behavior. 'k
 
Citino said:
Double critfail was the metalworkers, not us. Pretty sure ours was just a normal critfail.
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No, it was kinda ours too: we rolled 1 and, next turn, 6 on Innovation roll from the True City, which led to AN interpreting it as 'technically innovation rolls cannot critfail, but this abysmal innovation rate means it is suppresed'.
 
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn

Don't know if I want Art or Glass both have it's ups and downs.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Right now, I think I can confidently say that our Civ's biggest bottleneck is with the inability to restore stability in a reasonable fashion. We currently have Cosmopolitan Acceptance (which gives us resource gains in exchange for stability), and we have the Stewards Kicker action (which lets us pay stability to get what are effectively additional actions), but we can't really use either of these things reliably because they cost stability that we have no good way of getting back. Our best bet is the Proclaim Glory + Enforce Justice combo, but that requires most of our actions for a turn to grant +2 stability, and our provinces and peripheral states basically never take those actions for us. Having a better option on hand would be wonderful.
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I would posit that our stability options are actually quite good and advanced, however we have others stats blocking them, specifically Centralization. And this is the true root of the problem.
 
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn
[X] [Prog] Art Patronage (-1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige)
 
ctulhuslp said:
No, it was kinda ours too: we rolled 1 and, next turn, 6 on Innovation roll from the True City, which led to AN interpreting it as 'technically innovation rolls cannot critfail, but this abysmal innovation rate means it is suppresed'.
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I'd forgotten that, since it was such a minor thing really. And it helped give us a chance to deal with some of the problems of our sytem early, and with an admin leader as well, so I never thought of it as that bad.

Sure as hell beats the MWs 'suddenly, fire. Fire everywhere.'

Though I wonder what Ruth's stats are going to be. There seems to be evidence that she will be high in admin, mysticism and martial, and I suspect her dad taught her diplomacy as well, though which, if any, will be heroic is hard to see.

I'm hoping for all 4 heroic, but that seems unlikely. Awesome, but unlikely.
 
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn
[X] [Prog] Art Patronage (-1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige)
 
ctulhuslp said:
GS was ridiculously good for us with our Econ. If we ever get another Social slot, we should seriously try to fill it with TGG if we somehow can.
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Oh Crow yes. Luckily we have the sorta right culture to come up with it if we get a social slot to put it in. Though our next slot is probably going to whatever CA linked thingy we have, so we would really need two.
 
BungieONI said:
I would posit that our stability options are actually quite good and advanced, however we have others stats blocking them, specifically Centralization. And this is the true root of the problem.
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Well.
We've got Improve Festival, which basically trades a Main for a Stability, up to Legitimacy-1.
We've got Restoration of Order, which basically trades a Legitimacy for an average of 1 stability, up to Legitimacy-1. IIRC that means that it can only really raise Stability to 1, since Legitimacy-1 after a loss of Legitimacy is at most 1.
And we've got Enforce Justice, which is actually a good stability option capped by Centralization like you said.

So we have one stability option that is quite good and advanced; the other options are mediocre at best.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Well.
We've got Improve Festival, which basically trades a Main for a Stability, up to Legitimacy-1.
We've got Restoration of Order, which basically trades a Legitimacy for an average of 1 stability, up to Legitimacy-1. IIRC that means that it can only really raise Stability to 1, since Legitimacy-1 after a loss of Legitimacy is at most 1.
And we've got Enforce Justice, which is actually a good stability option capped by Centralization like you said.

So we have one stability option that is quite good and advanced; the other options are mediocre at best.
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Forgot Proclaim Glory, which is expensive but coupled to RO makes a nice combination for scouring out corruption.

I also am very concerned, though I did not immediately bring it up, that any HK stability option is going to boost Cent by a large amount.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Well.
We've got Improve Festival, which basically trades a Main for a Stability, up to Legitimacy-1.
We've got Restoration of Order, which basically trades a Legitimacy for an average of 1 stability, up to Legitimacy-1. IIRC that means that it can only really raise Stability to 1, since Legitimacy-1 after a loss of Legitimacy is at most 1.
And we've got Enforce Justice, which is actually a good stability option capped by Centralization like you said.

So we have one stability option that is quite good and advanced; the other options are mediocre at best.
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No; RoO can go to 2 with a PG at the same time.
 
PrimalShadow said:
We've got Restoration of Order, which basically trades a Legitimacy for an average of 1 stability, up to Legitimacy-1. IIRC that means that it can only really raise Stability to 1, since Legitimacy-1 after a loss of Legitimacy is at most 1.
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No, it can go up to 2, AN confirmed it during the discussion after it changed; the limit is "when can you take it", after that the only actual limit on stability is the legitimacy score. So we couldn't use it if we had stab 2, legit 3. but if we had stab 0, legit 3, we can use it, and go to stab 2, legit 2, if we're lucky enough (assuming AN stuck to ~1d3 odds like he said would likely be the case, either 1/3rd chance with secondary, or 5/9ths chance with a main)
 
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Encourage those close to come (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ, possible new True City)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn
 
Sivantic said:
Except that is not true. We push into the Dye side the provinces will take glasswork themselves as regular pottery doesn't work as well.

Glasswork would not lead to the use of the Vitriol because no one even knows that it is even a thing yet.

Oh yes, the double critfail. Yes, that is very normal behavior. 'k
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1) Regular pottery works. See the update itself. You can store acid in glazed ceramic containers if you are willing to take the risk that it will be more prone to accidents if there is the slightest crack or flaw. As such, you can make vitriol based dye using glazed pots, they will just occasionally leak some nasty substances onto the people working with them or burn down the place. As long as it's profitable enough for the People, someone will be willing to take the risk due to Honorable Death

2) The new dyes are made using acids to treat or catalyze various substances. Most of these are sulfur salts of metals, which you can form by mixing metal containing rock or ash(including metals we are not currently capable of smelting) with strong sulfuric acid to form a redox reaction that leaches them out of the material. You can only make them using vitriol. The Glassworks promotion focuses the dye discovery on how glass is the safe way to contain the reagents, while the Art Patronage promotion focuses the dye discovery on how you can use these new colors.

3) It's an incentivized behavior. Simply consider the local Potters optimum of the Dyers having an increased demand for glazed pottery, then the Glassmakers completely displace them from the dye market. It would not make any sense for the Potters to take it without trying to shut down a threat to their trade dominance.
 
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Abby Normal said:
No, it can go up to 2, AN confirmed it during the discussion after it changed; the limit is "when can you take it", after that the only actual limit on stability is the legitimacy score. So we couldn't use it if we had stab 2, legit 3. but if we had stab 0, legit 3, we can use it, and go to stab 2, legit 2, if we're lucky enough (assuming AN stuck to ~1d3 odds like he said would likely be the case, either 1/3rd chance with secondary, or 5/9ths chance with a main)
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Academia Nut said:
Restoration of Order - The people are uncertain, and into that uncertainty bad behaviour can flow. Send in the warriors to reassure people and root out corruption and dissent, restoring the proper function of the People, at the cost of disturbing their confidence that the king has their best interests at heart. Max Stability: Legitimacy-1
* S: Gain 0 to 2 Stability at a cost of -1 Legitimacy
* M: Roll twice, take best result
* modified by Administrative skill
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Can be used > 0 app.
 
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