[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)

Fighting when we are at fault goes against protective justice we will likely lose the trait if we do fight the highlanders
 
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I really wish we'd done either salt gift or diplo east. That would be really good right now.
 
[X] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)

Quick question here. Is there a way to set up a quarterly war game with our 'military' In an attempt to bleed off our max marital so our people's bloodlust doesn't consume us if we don't have a clear outlet?

We have a mega-project in that vein.
 
You know, there has been several cases in this Quest were picking the hardest solution was the best solution. The End of the Metal Crisis being the most obvious example.
There has never been a case where picking the most logistically and administratively difficult solution in a specifically administrative matter has been the best solution. My apologies for not being specific enough.
 
[X] Let the Highlanders extract their vengeance and attempt to make amends after (-1 Legitimacy, -3 Diplomacy, possibility of war with Highlanders, chance of spawning new faction in the lowlands)

Quick question here. Is there a way to set up a quarterly war game with our 'military' In an attempt to bleed off our max marital so our people's bloodlust doesn't consume us if we don't have a clear outlet?


There's the game project. But good luck making people vote for it. It's got the word elite in it.
 
I've already had my daily shouting match with Andres over this. And as I stated before the moral calculus is not the end all be all as far as I'm concerned.

And you think abandoning the military's men will show who's boss? And the only way we'll have any idea of what specifically caused this is if we get the men back to ask questions. Moreover, we have zero idea- it could have been a merchant clan, it could have been one of our oligarchs, it could have been an outright accident. But immediately seeing it all as some grand internal conspiracy to seize power- when the Stallions refused to do anything remotely like that- is the sort of tinhat asinine paranoia that means you don't deserve whatever power you already have.

Have you actually read the action?

We are going there and are bringing our men home.
We are not going in and executing them.

They performed an illegal military action.

They will face a fair trial.
I fully expect some of them to be released, and most become half exiles.

I want the asshole who tried to usurp the kings right to deploy military however.
 
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
 
I am not entirely sure this is a concept that exists.

Or at the very least, I doubt any courts of this time operate on a system of "fair" that we can recognize as such.

Ours does.

Did for millennia, in fact.

https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/threads/paths-of-civilization.36410/page-17#post-7995465

Protective Justice
Punishment and retribution are not justice, but tools of justice. Justice exists to encourage desirable behaviours, and thus can be best served by discouraging bad behaviour before it happens.
Pros: Justice is an objective, and thus can be served without retribution or retaliation
Cons: Sometimes the call for justice comes early...
 
I'm naming the snake (if said person exist) second coming Crow. It's likely he/she have excellent grasp of our government system and know enough que to direct our warriors. Then smart enough to trigger a effective plan to seize HK's village.

It will be good get their underhanded knowledge.
 
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Have you actually read the action?

We are going there and are bringing our men home.
We are not going in and executing them.

They performed an illegal military action.

They will face a fair trial.
I fully expect some of them to be released, and most become half exiles.
Except you are expecting armed men, who sympathize with the men in question, to bring them home without issue. Never give an order you don't expect to be followed after all, and if this order isn't followed things become much more complicated.

I'll fully admit there's a chance that they're arrested, tried and the HK still makes war (which is a compromise everyone can walk away from) but there's also a chance we'll just have made the situation worse.
 
Friends respect each other, and that includes how they interact. That's the opinion of at least one person.
You can respect somebody and still say 'I told you so'. In fact, that respect is why it feels so good to do so! Because their opinion actually matters to you. Or at least to me. The 'you' is meant to be general.

I see those prank wars or whatever on youtube and admit that that's going way too far. I wouldn't be friends with those buffoons.

Nor would I particularly consider unending polite discourse to be particularly friend-like behavior. Friends rib each other, but they also support each other and know when to tone down the teasing. In my opinion. Obviously everybody has their own perspective on things.

I don't feel like it's particularly productive to have to clarify that my opinions are my opinions instead of some universal truth.
Don't take this the wrong way but you're not my friend and I don't appreciate you acting like you are.
... Is there a right way to take this? :V
 
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I am not entirely sure this is a concept that exists.

Or at the very least, I doubt any courts of this time operate on a system of "fair" that we can recognize as such.


Trail by fire is totally fair, any objections to it must be from those dangerous fringe shamans and thier insidious trial by law. Or worse that drunk fishermen who talks about trial by jury. Albeit lynch mobs do have a certain appeal.
 
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No, you went into things assuming that picking the hardest solution was again the best solution. Definition of insanity, yada yada yada.

I get plenty of credit, for calling the options like they were before AN said anything about them in-thread.

I get that you're mad I pointed out my opinion was right in hindsight again. Maybe you shouldn't be grasping at straws trying to prove me wrong and actually say that you're mad I pointed out I was right.
Well, there was already a bandwagon in place, and the option was perceived to be easy/a patch job as opposed to complete dissolution and a rework of the laws (Which sounds like the tax thing all over again).

I can't speak for everyone, but I definitely didn't factor in the martial stress when I made my decision as it hadn't done anything yet.

You were right in that it spiraled out of control fast, but you were wrong initially because you claimed that your statement of hereditary gangs was correct (not to mention the way you were putting it a bit annoying even if it was meant as a joke).
 
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
 
We don't have courts. The just thing to do with military units who attack and conquer provinces without authorization is to let their enemies defeat them with no support.
 
Except you are expecting armed men, who sympathize with the men in question, to bring them home without issue. Never give an order you don't expect to be followed after all, and if this order isn't followed things become much more complicated.

I'll fully admit there's a chance that they're arrested, tried and the HK still makes war (which is a compromise everyone can walk away from) but there's also a chance we'll just have made the situation worse.

And if we cannot trust our own armed forces to arrest suspected criminals than we are in far deeper trouble.

Either here was a "misunderstanding" or an open rebellion.
 
You were right in that it spiraled out of control fast, but you were wrong initially because you claimed that your statement of hereditary gangs was correct (not to mention the way you were putting it a bit annoying even if it was meant as a joke).
I was right. Lord Nitpick avoided this segment of quote when he claimed that, too.
Clans as they are basically self-police. In modern terms, the entire city is basically run by a thousand different family mafias
 
I disagree with the notion hat justice is somehow divorced from morality.
You can disagree all you want, but the law doesn't dictate what is or isn't evil.

In fact, the entire concept of good and bad is based entirely on ethics and morals. Our civ doesn't object to the war at all, so the ethics part isn't gonna work here.

The only thing that's causing you to reject the war is your morals.
 
[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
About the best i can see :/
@Academia Nut do the wall costs and diplo missions not take effect until the next vote?
 
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