Again, whats the point then?
Lets just go regular technology then get all hardy over magic that has only evidence against... the only evidence for it is from our people being primitive.
The point is that if we did manage to stumble over it, it would be an avenue of power that could be good to look into. Also, if we never research it, and another group pulls out battlemages in the future, we'd be pretty screwed.

It's all moot until we stumble over magic one way or another though, and I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting researching magic anyways.
 
There's a number of magic systems that are A. inherently weak or B. require a wide knowledge base to enact.
Or C. require significant logistical backing.

Or D. hard-to-manufacture tools.

Or E. does something that's not directly useful to a primitive tribe, but is much more relevant to situations a more advanced nation might encounter.

There's a lot of ways a technology can be both quite valuable and also hard to discover or harness.

Electricity comes to mind.

Or steam power.
 
The point is that if we did manage to stumble over it, it would be an avenue of power that could be good to look into. Also, if we never research it, and another group pulls out battlemages in the future, we'd be pretty screwed.

It's all moot until we stumble over magic one way or another though, and I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting researching magic anyways.

Or C. require significant logistical backing.

Or D. hard-to-manufacture tools.

Or E. does something that's not directly useful to a primitive tribe, but is much more relevant to situations a more advanced nation might encounter.

There's a lot of ways a technology can be both quite valuable and also hard to discover or harness.

Electricity comes to mind.

Or steam power.
I also want to add that it's not just a 'what can we make' deal. It shows a fundamental difference in reality, which can cause numerous challenges ranging the gambit in all aspects of a civilization, from considering if deities might exist in some way, to the effects on whatever 'magic' actualy is on the human psyche, to the question of other types of sentient life with different minds and tendencies born from them.
 
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They do if it makes you tailgate and crash into someone.;)
Isn't tailgating a risky behavior?

Edit: To be clear, the original claim is that men take more risks. That could be ENTIRELY mediated through increased aggression and still be true
 
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Just like you imagined
[X] Carefully study them for their mysteries
[X] [Main] Study Metal
[X] [Secondary] Study Health
[X] [Secondary] Survey Lands

Study Stars - Valleyhome
Expand Holy Site - Stonepen x2
Expand Economy - Redshore

Stallion Tribes - [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] New Trails, [Sec] Expand Econ

New Spiritual Trait Acquired!
Observance
Through careful study of the world, the will and workings of gods and spirits can be determined and understood.
Pros: Improved use of study actions
Cons: I know it worked this one time...

Stories more myth than anything else said that the lowlands were cursed, and those who lived there were stalked by evil spirits, all too eager to reap the souls of those so foolish as to dwell there. Perhaps there was even some wisdom in the now half-legendary Dead Priests trying to appease such monsters, but by all accounts it had not availed them. The Thunder Horse had sent representatives to the Highlands Kingdom with news that they would be reining in their raids against protected territory and even offered tribute in apology, because honestly they had better things to deal with, like the fact that their 'cousins' who insisted on also calling themselves the Thunder Horse were returning from the hills in the far east...

Only the Highlander king was a little busy being dead while his sons and war chiefs tore each other apart over who got to be the new king.

Awkward.

In any case, the north of the lowlands were relatively peaceful even as the far east and west of the area were torn apart by civil war and a three way brawl between the Thunder Horse, the eastern Thunder Horse, and the Dead Priests going at it.

Relatively.

And then, whatever demons that plagued that place decided that the violence was not sating their bloodlust fast enough and unleashed a curse of the likes that had not been seen since the dread tales of the star pox had swept through there during the Comet Time. Where before the demons had unleashed purulent fevers that maimed and disfigured and killed, now they conjured up a new epidemic to inflict upon those people. Random and swift, it struck without warning, causing people to collapse in agony where just a moment before they had been fine, inflicting upon them a terrible aching of the guts that soon resulted in the violent and explosive voiding of those guts. A person's vital essence could be drained in mere hours, leaving them a shriveled, sunken, blue-skinned corpse.

Given their retrieval of the star fragments, there were many that feared that the People had sinned, had repeated the hubris of the Thunder Horse in mythical ages past, and that disease was coming for them next, and unlike with the star pox they had no protection.

People fled the lowlands, demons of plague and disease howling and snapping like wolves at their heels, tearing down the most vulnerable among them as they tried to make the already parching trip through the badlands. Both people and demons were met with a stern faced wall of men and women in deathly silent crow masks. To those seeking refugee they were given food, water, shelter, and comfort.

To the demons?

They gave nothing and took everything!

AN: Imagine this, only the Persians are replaced by cholera (except for the well part, there mentally run that bit in reverse)


The continual expansion of holy sites had not increased the number of shamans terribly much, but it had increased the number of part time assistants so that those who were truly blessed by the spirits could devote all their time to spiritual matters, and a fire and mania gripped the shamans. They had beat the star pox, and they struggled every season with the other diseases, struggled to keep the number of children buried from four out of six to three out of six. They would not let this new curse enter their lands! Nor would they cower and hide from it, turning the desperate away.

Like warriors they strode out to do battle in the way of the People: they started no fights, but by the gods would they end them with all brutality and swiftness.

Perhaps it was the earlier orders of the king to study the fallen star and metal and how people reacted to various herbs and treatments, perhaps it was the knowledge that the key to defeating the star pox had come from noticing that those who worked with cows caught a lesser version, but they studied the curse like a hunter studies prey or a mason studies a stone for faults to break along. People volunteered to test treatments, and while far too many died - painfully, perhaps needlessly - these were losses against a foe greater than them, and more than one person passed on with a smile on their face as well as pained tears in their eyes - if their death meant the salvation of friends and family, then no matter how hideous it would be a good death. And with the shamans carefully tending to each new case, all confined to Lower Valleyhome, each death did bring some new little scrap of insight.

The curse could not be transmitted through blood, not like star pox.

Simply touching the sick could not get you ill, but improper cleanliness while handling the copious amounts of waste the sick produced could.

Sometimes people got sick for no apparent reason... but the People had a clue from another project. They had been struggling to understand the curses from turning stone to metal, setting aside forests and fields to study the problems, and they had seen a few things. The act of breaking apart a metal from its air could curse the air in obvious and subtle ways, and that which was not metal could mix with water to make poisons that stained the land. One of the major breakthroughs however was that if you filled a pit with the refuse of mining and smelting, you had to line it with waterproof pottery or the poison would seep out over the seasons. Another insight was that while some of the poisons were immediately obvious with the staining colours they produced, sometimes you could dilute out the colour but still detect bitter or sour flavours if you took a careful sip. Might there still be poison left even after further dilution?

So it was that the shamans tracked the disease and noted that so long as those who came fleeing its influence were kept in Lower Valleyhome, there were no cases in Upper Valleyhome. The sickness could not swim upriver. But perhaps it could seep out of the latrines if one was not careful? Increased care with waste handling was obviously needed to prevent the spread of this illness.

And then came a most miraculous breakthrough. Just supplying water was not good enough, it could not reliably save those who were infected, but a daring shaman had discovered a magnificent spell. Water could be purified through exposure to cleansing flame enough to boil, and then the addition of the pure substances of salt and honey created a tonic that could restore the vital essence of an afflicted person, increasing the chances that they might be able to fight off the curse with strength alone.

With purity of spirit and purpose, the shamans fought, and despite the expense, they beat the disease back, they forced the demons to go running from their territory, their prey of refugees and People denied from them by the unbroken line of shamans and volunteers. There was much weeping and lamentation for those lost, but also the elation of realizing victory.

Crow was with them, and his laughter had to echo and burn in the ears of the demons of disease as they fled, their magic spent.

The study of metal production also brought up other concerns: if the rocks brought up from the earth could beget poisons when washed with water, were there other rocks out there that might be similar to the ones deliberately exposed, producing poison? One particularly interesting point was that the most obvious poisons tended to be associated with bright colours - copper had a lot of blues and greens, but some of the waste produced was red or yellow - and foul smells, including some rather rotten egg stenches that were honestly confusing to try to explain. However, in searching the Land for both the possibility of more metal deposits or other places where nature had produced a natural seep, the People discovered a sea facing cliff face where several layers of stone almost seemed to be bleeding. More than that, while not much had been learned from studying the fragments of the fallen star other than that they were incredibly tough, it was noted that some of the stones around the Bleeding Cliff sort of looked like some of the stony bits of the fallen star, or the one red residue they had made in seeing if the fallen star produced poison like other metals.

Perhaps... perhaps a star had fallen here in the past and left a wound in the earth? Maybe metal, being different from other materials, was all derived from the heavens, and the poisons were merely whatever curses were locked away in such disturbance of the celestial order being unleashed? Maybe... maybe not. Hard to tell, but it would probably be worth further study in the future.

In the meantime, the People had the sick to take care of.

How many refugees?
[] No more than usual (Tiny chance of Stability loss)
[] A significant number (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
[] There is a war going on too you know (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
[] The whole lowlands are kind of a mess, you know? (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, other effects)

You have discovered powerful new magic
[] Keep it secret (Chance of Stability loss)
[] Share with friendly groups (Chance of other effects)
[] Share with everyone who will listen (+1 Stability, other effects)
[] Share with even those who don't want to listen (-1 Diplomacy, +1 immediate Stability, chance for additional stability, other effects)

You're somewhat running out of resources to expand Holy Sites, switch?
[] No, keep Spirits
[] Balanced
[] Defence
[] Expansion
[] Megaproject Support
[] Offence
[] Progress
[] Restoration
[] Trade

Special Note: Because of the discovery of needing clean water and large amounts of salt to most effectively fight these sorts of disease, starting the Saltern or the Garden next turn will provide +1 Stability as the People are assured that the king is being proactive in protection against demons

AN: So many perfectly timed crits... The People basically just headbutt one of the Horsemen of the Apocalypse into submission
 
Fuck yes. Oh FUCK YES! Sanitation, gatorade, cholera DEFEATED!
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Edit: do we have a shaman named John Snow? It seems a fitting tribute...
 
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[X] A significant number (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
[X] Keep it secret (Chance of Stability loss)
[X] Expansion
Min Stab loss with any Econ gain.
Weaken our enemies further, don't share it, they can all go to hell. But if we're going to share it we should do it to the max.
Expansion to take control of places while our enemies are weak.

New Spiritual Trait Acquired!
Observance
Through careful study of the world, the will and workings of gods and spirits can be determined and understood.
Pros: Improved use of study actions
Cons: I know it worked this one time...
K so exactly what I wanted...
Perhaps it was the earlier orders of the king to study the fallen star and metal and how people reacted to various herbs and treatments, perhaps it was the knowledge that the key to defeating the star pox had come from noticing that those who worked with cows caught a lesser version, but they studied the curse like a hunter studies prey or a mason studies a stone for faults to break along. People volunteered to test treatments, and while far too many died - painfully, perhaps needlessly - these were losses against a foe greater than them, and more than one person passed on with a smile on their face as well as pained tears in their eyes - if their death meant the salvation of friends and family, then no matter how hideous it would be a good death. And with the shamans carefully tending to each new case, all confined to Lower Valleyhome, each death did bring some new little scrap of insight.
Was almost crying while reading this.
And then came a most miraculous breakthrough. Just supplying water was not good enough, it could not reliably save those who were infected, but a daring shaman had discovered a magnificent spell. Water could be purified through exposure to cleansing flame enough to boil, and then the addition of the pure substances of salt and honey created a tonic that could restore the vital essence of an afflicted person, increasing the chances that they might be able to fight off the curse with strength alone.
I thought we already knew that boiling water was cool... oh well.
Special Note: Because of the discovery of needing clean water and large amounts of salt to most effectively fight these sorts of disease, starting the Saltern or the Garden next turn will provide +1 Stability as the People are assured that the king is being proactive in protection against demons
Kk... I kind of want to do the Saltern, honestly. But y'all will probably be like "No!! The Garden!!" cus it's cheaper.
 
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...Holy Shit!!

EDIT: Observance seems to be a very basic Scientific Method. See what works, and keep trying that. Of course we'll need to refine it, but it's really cool.
 
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[x] The whole lowlands are kind of a mess, you know? (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, other effects)
[x] Share with even those who don't want to listen (-1 Diplomacy, +1 immediate Stability, chance for additional stability, other effects)
[x] Restoration

If we take these we can take all the refugees and no longer have to worry about stability for quite a while so now we can focus on the science that everybody wants
 
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So, Saltern or Garden? Which one should we start?

I mean, I'm assuming we're probably going to do them both in relatively short order, but which first?
 
I think we should share this with everyone. Frankly, disease doesn't respect borders, and sanitation will be somewhat effective against many future diseases which might spread to us.

On top of that, we're about to corner the market on salt. Might as well make that market huge!
 
Guys we should share this discovery and accept everyone because it will probably upgrade LOO and possibly give us a new trait related to diplomacy
 
This needs an awesome button

[X] No more than usual (Tiny chance of Stability loss)

Say no to Stability loss right before a megaproject.

[X] Keep it secret (Chance of Stability loss)

[X] Megaproject Support

I'm up for Salterns, so grab the free policy change and then when we finish grab a free policy change to something else. Garden, I would prefer the Dam in place first so yeah.
[x] The whole lowlands are kind of a mess, you know? (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, other effects)
[x] Share with everyone who will listen (+1 Stability, other effects)
[x] Restoration

If we take these we can take all the refugees and no longer have to worry about stability for quite a while so now we can focus on the science that everybody wants
nooo. Stability -3 isn't something to play around with.
 
[x] The whole lowlands are kind of a mess, you know? (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, other effects)
[x] Share with everyone who will listen (+1 Stability, other effects)
[x] Restoration

If we take these we can take all the refugees and no longer have to worry about stability for quite a while so now we can focus on the science that everybody wants
*laughs hysterically*
No. Expansion. We're not going to increase the number of unmixed refugees and slowly damn our civ to injustice.

So, Saltern or Garden? Which one should we start?

I mean, I'm assuming we're probably going to do them both in relatively short order, but which first?
Saltern is my preference; for all that The Garden will finish faster, it would be better to do it after The Dam in case The Dam affects it.
 
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