- Location
- america
i blame bane and his rule of 2
May The Invisible Hand Be With You - (Star Wars CK2-Style Quest)
- Thread starter Dr. Snark
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star wars canon what canon tsundere dice ck2 quest actions have consequences all the credits all work and no play makes ciaran a dull girl best sister capitalism ho! despairing qm teetotaller society member gotta catch 'em all insanity looting off the rails sage dice approaching spicy sheev tsundere asajj
- Location
- Australia
The Rule of Two was made with the purpose of making stronger and stronger Sith. After a thousand years of this, with the first and thus weakest of these Sith being the already powerful Bane, we get Sidious. It makes sense for Sidious to thus be the most powerful Sith. As for Anakin, the dude's the friggin Chosen One. Of course he's the most powerful Force user that could ever exist. He made the Son and the Daughter both submit.
And I will forever despair that Snark decided to make that awful, beyond overpowered thing canon.
Skywalker_T-65
Writer with too many ideas.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- Plural/They/He/Her
Nihilus isn't that powerful. Raw power wise (I think my favorite LP has the player beating him to death with their bare hands 
) at any rate. He kills planets by his very existence. He can't control it. He can't focus it. It's just there. If it were something he could pick and choose, sure, but it rules him. It's an anomaly that can't be quantified as 'power' so much as 'death'. His entire thing is being a void that leads to the death of everything around him. He's not powerful in his own right.
Vitiate...I'll be honest. I hate TOR and I loathe Vitiate. Mostly because it makes Revan and Malak's story arc- go to the Dark Side willingly to prepare the Republic/Galaxy-at-large -moot. Because he can mind-dominate them. Because reasons. I get the in-universe logic, but it's always rubbed me the wrong way. I'd be perfectly okay if we didn't focus on him.
) at any rate. He kills planets by his very existence. He can't control it. He can't focus it. It's just there. If it were something he could pick and choose, sure, but it rules him. It's an anomaly that can't be quantified as 'power' so much as 'death'. His entire thing is being a void that leads to the death of everything around him. He's not powerful in his own right.Vitiate...I'll be honest. I hate TOR and I loathe Vitiate. Mostly because it makes Revan and Malak's story arc- go to the Dark Side willingly to prepare the Republic/Galaxy-at-large -moot. Because he can mind-dominate them. Because reasons. I get the in-universe logic, but it's always rubbed me the wrong way. I'd be perfectly okay if we didn't focus on him.
- Location
- america
have you even seen sith? they lie and cheat and sidious killed his master in his sleep. BEFORE HE COULD GAIN ALL OF HIS MASTERS KNOWLEDGE. if this happens often (it probably DID) then a fuckton of knowledge was lost along the way of the sith. so you know, your probably wrong there.
Darrenb209
"Who are you, who do not know your history?"
- Location
- Scotland
Well, yeah that was the point of them going silent rather than loud.
By the Sith officially not existing, they could hunt down and destroy Jedi Holocrons containing knowledge useful to the Jedi, weakening the Jedi, while hoarding any knowledge that could be useful to the Sith, strengthening the Sith.
That's... Utter bull. Sorry, but it's true. We know that Sidious killed his master before learning everything from him. That's canon. We know that a lot of Sith before them did the exact same thing.
And having a millienia of hoarded knowledge does not make them inherently "stronger" than those who came before him.
And the Anakin part? Just because he made the Son and Daughter Submit does not inherently mean he was stronger than them. In fact, it's highly likely that he's not.
One being being inherently stronger than two aspects of the force? It's far more likely that being the chosen one affected his very nature, making those two bow to him as they did their father when he attempted to force the issue. The three of them were equals, the father still made them bow.
Being Chosen to bring Balance to the Force does not necessarily mean most powerful guy ever. It just means that he is capable of bringing Balance.
That could mean He is the most powerful, but it could also mean he is merely strong enough. Or his very nature somehow makes him different. Or he has some inborn trait, that makes him capable of forcing the issue.
Brute force is not always the solution, and in Prophecies, Brute force is borderline never the solution.
- Location
- america
so, when are we gonna go out there and kill slaver's? i realy wanted to do that, and now with ani force bond, it could have that grow stronger for it.
Ihaxlikenoob
Dragon of Terror
It's like you forgot the part where Sidious himself drowned a planet with a multi-AU long Force Storm in the EU with his own power, and not through Nihlus' unique 'ever hungering maw' anomaly that he can't control. Is there a reason to this?
Or in canon where he force chokes a dude from a half a galaxy away in the Clone Wars.
Or in canon where he force chokes a dude from a half a galaxy away in the Clone Wars.
Question for all
What does everyone think would happen after Ciaran defeats Darth Sidious?
I would imagine that the Jedi Order and Ciaran organization would quickly become enemies but not in the same way as the relationship between the Jedi and the Sith?
Without question, both the Jedi Order and the Abyss Watchers would be heavily damaged. The Jedi Order would be greatly weakened by the Clone War and Order 66, but they would not be exterminated as in canon. While the Abyss Watchers would have suffered heavy losses in the battle against Darth Sidious but would likely have a lot of influence in the new government.
What does everyone think would happen after Ciaran defeats Darth Sidious?
I would imagine that the Jedi Order and Ciaran organization would quickly become enemies but not in the same way as the relationship between the Jedi and the Sith?
Without question, both the Jedi Order and the Abyss Watchers would be heavily damaged. The Jedi Order would be greatly weakened by the Clone War and Order 66, but they would not be exterminated as in canon. While the Abyss Watchers would have suffered heavy losses in the battle against Darth Sidious but would likely have a lot of influence in the new government.
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Darrenb209
"Who are you, who do not know your history?"
- Location
- Scotland
It really does depend on how the fight goes, what contingencies Sidious has and how decimated our forces are afterwards.
And how much the Jedi have proof of.
And what Sidious does in between now and then.
And what we do.
The aftermath could be anything from a ruined galaxy pulling together the pieces, to people going to sleep and waking up to a Republic which has lost it's Chancellor, the Jedi and us in one night, all the way through us being revealed right up to success, the Chancellor, Dead. The Jedi, Neutered. Us, Ruling from the Shadows.
And how much the Jedi have proof of.
And what Sidious does in between now and then.
And what we do.
The aftermath could be anything from a ruined galaxy pulling together the pieces, to people going to sleep and waking up to a Republic which has lost it's Chancellor, the Jedi and us in one night, all the way through us being revealed right up to success, the Chancellor, Dead. The Jedi, Neutered. Us, Ruling from the Shadows.
Darrenb209
"Who are you, who do not know your history?"
- Location
- Scotland
I wonder... If it gets out that this war is merely an extension of the Jedi-Sith Wars that have raged across and ruined the galaxy so many times... How long until Anti-Force Wielder sentiment leads to sanctions that make the Ruusan Reformations look like a minor change in rules?
So many of their Galactic scale conflicts aren't really republic vs empire or Republic vs enemy. It's Jedi VS Sith on a large scale.
I mean, a Sith on one side, even if most people knew wouldn't be that bad for it, but the revelation that the whole thing was orchestrated as a millennia long plot by the Sith? I don't see the Jedi having any serious role in the Republic for a long time to come.
So many of their Galactic scale conflicts aren't really republic vs empire or Republic vs enemy. It's Jedi VS Sith on a large scale.
I mean, a Sith on one side, even if most people knew wouldn't be that bad for it, but the revelation that the whole thing was orchestrated as a millennia long plot by the Sith? I don't see the Jedi having any serious role in the Republic for a long time to come.
My main guess is that regardless on what we do, the galaxy is going to be fractured because of all the butterflies. The CNS could have several planets that break away from the Republic and the galaxy will never be the same.
The previous status quo will be gone for good. Especially without any Sith to manipulate the galaxy. Who knows how the galaxy is going to change. Old powers that indirectly relied on Palpatine's mechanisms could fall, change, or be replaced by something else.
Since the Abyss Watchers don't have the same restrictions on who can learn the Force, the number of Force Users will skyrocket in the next few decades. The Jedi might not like this because Ciaran ignores millennia of tradition.
I don't think there will be outright galaxy-scale war like the Clone Wars, but it could lead to a Cold War scenario. The CNS is kind of like the USSR from all of its expansion. And we all know the problems that entailed for the next several decades. On the bright side, this could encourage funding in military research for...whatever threats are beyond the galaxy. Even a Vong-like threat (thank god they are not part of this quest) might be much easier to deal with because of the military expansion.
Ironically, I am getting the image of the Republic supporting dictators to "stop the spread of the CNS". We might have to worry about a rise of dangerous dictators as a side effect.
The previous status quo will be gone for good. Especially without any Sith to manipulate the galaxy. Who knows how the galaxy is going to change. Old powers that indirectly relied on Palpatine's mechanisms could fall, change, or be replaced by something else.
Since the Abyss Watchers don't have the same restrictions on who can learn the Force, the number of Force Users will skyrocket in the next few decades. The Jedi might not like this because Ciaran ignores millennia of tradition.
I don't think there will be outright galaxy-scale war like the Clone Wars, but it could lead to a Cold War scenario. The CNS is kind of like the USSR from all of its expansion. And we all know the problems that entailed for the next several decades. On the bright side, this could encourage funding in military research for...whatever threats are beyond the galaxy. Even a Vong-like threat (thank god they are not part of this quest) might be much easier to deal with because of the military expansion.
Ironically, I am getting the image of the Republic supporting dictators to "stop the spread of the CNS". We might have to worry about a rise of dangerous dictators as a side effect.
It is interesting because the Jedi Order is a religious organization while the Abyss Watchers are more mercantile.
Unlike the Sith, the Abyss Watchers are likely to be stable and would sure as a rival force organization for the Jedi Order.
Stealthy
Reverently Irreverent
- Location
- Roaming
Abyss Watchers aren't anywhere remotely capable of being a rival force organization to the Jedi nor do I think they'd really aim to do so. This isn't that kinda quest (though IIRC @Publicola had said he was planning out that quest, so look forward to that).
The whole point of the "Grey Council" (which is a terrible name. Most force sects would probably be offended by the implication that they are partly dark side. As an example, the Luka Sene have a division dedicated to finding dark side members and redeeming them or, if unsuccessful, eliminating them), is to dilute the political influence of the Jedi as the premier Force Organization of the galaxy by elevating others. Hence the whole point of turning the Chu'unthor into a mobile symposium dedicated to the Force. Brings attention to the people nobody's heard about. Jedi will still be the biggest, and can't do much about that without going to war with them (no thx), so subjugating them politically is the best option. And we'll have the backing of the Senate, given our allies.
Unless we completely botch our efforts to stop Order 66 of course, but that's not a great outcome.
The whole point of the "Grey Council" (which is a terrible name. Most force sects would probably be offended by the implication that they are partly dark side. As an example, the Luka Sene have a division dedicated to finding dark side members and redeeming them or, if unsuccessful, eliminating them), is to dilute the political influence of the Jedi as the premier Force Organization of the galaxy by elevating others. Hence the whole point of turning the Chu'unthor into a mobile symposium dedicated to the Force. Brings attention to the people nobody's heard about. Jedi will still be the biggest, and can't do much about that without going to war with them (no thx), so subjugating them politically is the best option. And we'll have the backing of the Senate, given our allies.
Unless we completely botch our efforts to stop Order 66 of course, but that's not a great outcome.
I would say that's not at all without question, given that I'm questioning it right now. Seriously, if things end up like that, we probably fucked up pretty badly.
Here's the latest omake count!
It's actually possible we added 7 omakes in this tally, depending on whether @Alex pears' list of lightsaber crystals should be considered omake-worthy.
In the last 40 pages, we've added 6 omakes to the list, for a total of 13 omake bonuses. Remember: we're probably getting another Personal Action this turn, so we should aim for a final tally of 42.
It's actually possible we added 7 omakes in this tally, depending on whether @Alex pears' list of lightsaber crystals should be considered omake-worthy.
@Dr. Snark, let us know!
In unrelated news:
I'm not sure how many responses you got, but this was awesome and we should definitely consider this as a leading candidate for 'philosophy of the Abyss Walkers Force sect').
You remembered! (Unfortunately, I got nerd-sniped by KOTOR. It might take a little while longer to recover).
...And back the drawing board. We really need to come up with a good name for that thing. (If only for this quest; I still need to brainstorm for my own quest down the road...)
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Eh... I personally don't know.
Its sorta like an info dump, kinda like your briefing the boss ones, but it lacks any of the interactions between characters.
If Snark says ok sure, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up...
mmm though if it is treated like a briefing the boss then legends of the Kaiburr crystal (still not those ones) would give us a reason to add Mimban/Circarporus V as a archaeology destination.
The spectrum...
All sides, all aspects, all peoples.
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Distance matters not.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Quick questions is lady Fay dead yet?
In legends she was killed when she sacrificed herself holding of Ventress and Durge on the planet Queyta, but we've recruited or killed the primary actors in that.
Second do we know when and where Sidious and Dooku do that ritual to try and corrupt Yoda? Cause that seems like a good time and place to attack.
In legends she was killed when she sacrificed herself holding of Ventress and Durge on the planet Queyta, but we've recruited or killed the primary actors in that.
Second do we know when and where Sidious and Dooku do that ritual to try and corrupt Yoda? Cause that seems like a good time and place to attack.
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
should be seeing we killed one and turned the other to our services.
so unless dooku has 2 other people on more or less the same level i do not see that happening anytime soon
the virus thing maybe
so unless dooku has 2 other people on more or less the same level i do not see that happening anytime soon
the virus thing maybe
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Who knows, he has Tann who's a strategist and a dark jedi, as well as someone who plays smart.
The thing is Fay wasn't beaten so much as she was incapacitated by an explosion and when Ventress took her chance to gut her helped Obi escape with the antidote rather than heal herself.
Still she apparently died in 22 BBY, so @Dr. Snark would we have heard about Queyta and Swamp gas through the Silver Cross?
Pretty sure this Diplomacy action...
EDIT: also, @Dr. Snark has clarified several times that most of the 'bioweapon' threats during the Clone Wars have been surreptitiously eliminated by Abyss Watcher agents. (For instance: Jenna Zan Arbor died off-screen while we were fighting Granta Omega). So at least that's one thing we don't have to deal with.
...is related to Fay, among others. Since Asajj was responsible for killing her off in canon, our recruitment of Asajj means that didn't happen.
EDIT: also, @Dr. Snark has clarified several times that most of the 'bioweapon' threats during the Clone Wars have been surreptitiously eliminated by Abyss Watcher agents. (For instance: Jenna Zan Arbor died off-screen while we were fighting Granta Omega). So at least that's one thing we don't have to deal with.
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
... we should contact her.
She seems like a good lady, she's really strong, very respected by the Jedi and probably would help us against Sidious...
Killerflood
Corporal Cannonfodder
- Location
- Saṃsāra
Wasn't Fay still killed off though? Canonically, Asajj killed Fay in 22BBY while we only kidnapped Asajj in 21BBY. Shouldn't Fay still be dead?
I mean, butterflies and all of that, sure ... but ... *shrug*
I mean, butterflies and all of that, sure ... but ... *shrug*