May The Invisible Hand Be With You - (Star Wars CK2-Style Quest)
- Thread starter Dr. Snark
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Foundry Raid Rules
Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
- Location
- Right where I want to be
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Mmmkay. So. The Foundry mini-turn is here.
I'll be blunt: I'm basically creating this "combat engine/minigame thing" on the fly, which is why it's not officially starting until I get a feel from you guys if my idea is fair or not before I make it an official thing. So here's how I'm thinking this will play out:
Foundry Raid Funtime Spectacular Tentative Rules
-We're using a d100 system for this because statistical variance is fun.
-Before the raid starts you will select a number of troops to commit to the raid. For example: 8 Veteran Guardian Teams, 5 Veteran Seeker Teams, 2 B1 Droid Groups, and an Abysswalker. Once you've got it locked in, that's all you're getting for the raid. Unfortunately Devastators and other heavy vehicles will be locked out since the fighting is going to be in a lot of corridors and there's no way to get them to the deck in question without getting full access to it first. (And uh...OOC the Devastators would be broken as all hell in this engine) There's going to be a cap of 30 troops due to there only being so much space on a station and to prevent you from drowning the enemy in rolls.
--Each of those troops will have various stat boosts due to other actions in the game as well as their rank. For example, Veteran Guardian Teams will have +15 to attack and survival due to their rank, Kyber Blasters which gives them a +5 boost to attack rolls and Beskar-Enhanced Phase I Armor which gives them a +10 chance of survival against counterattacks. This will be detailed later once things get rolling.
-It'll be divided into 2 phases: Attack and Counterattack. The first is your guys rolling per unit to shoot droids trying to beat a DC of...let's call it 40 right now to get a feel for the system, the second is them shooting back at each unit with a DC of 40 before boosts. Given that this is the first time it's not going to be too hard to kill them and they won't have much of a chance to kill your dudes for the first (second but who's counting (oh wait me)) deck but the chance of things going wrong and people dying is going to increase as you go further down as the droids get better at fighting your guys. If a unit is "killed" they'll get a survival roll with a base DC of 60 currently due to the presence of high-grade Karada cybernetics. Agents get lower DCs (50) due to Matukai training making them much more durable.
-Right now the Extermination Droids are just going to have universal DCs to get shot and identical buffs to hitting your guys but that might change depending on how things play out.
-Given that you can shut down every droid on a deck if you reach the central command of said deck, killing Extermination Droids will boost the chance of reaching it, which is a roll that takes place between the Attack and Counterattack phases with a base DC of 70. A minimum amount of droids must be destroyed before the roll can be triggered, for the moment we'll say that you need to destroy 10 units as a base, and after that each unit destroyed decreases the difficulty of the roll by 5.
-Shutting down a deck means you get to go onto the next one if you want, or you can call it a quarter and end it there. You can pull out mid-battle if things get really screwed, but it'll give the Extermination Droids a free Counterattack round.
-Hero Units are obviously going to be special in this case. They get their stat boosts (attack and defense) from Martial because fuck you they aren't going down that easy.
--Each Hero Unit also provides buffs to the raid as a whole. Greivous gives the "Scion of Kalee" buff which gives Kaleesh teams a +10 to both stats because their moral skyrockets in the presence of their demigod of war. HK gives the "Master of the Foundry" buff which decreases the shutdown DC by 10 due to his knowledge of the facility.
--Hero Units also can't die in this. Because this isn't that kind of story and it'd be super dull to say that "oh they died to random extermination droids what a shame." They will be incapacitated instead and cease to provide their buffs. They also force a reroll (one-time only) on attacks that hit them.
-Given the nature of the Abysswalkers (in that the two we have so far now have Nominal Importance), they're going to be treated as 'pseudo-heroes.' Instead of automatically dying to a successful attack they get the reroll too, but if they bite it they go into survival rolls like everyone else, though they have lower DCs to pass for that (40).
-The thread can roll for the troops if they so choose, or they can leave the rolls to my tender mercies. Mwahahaha. Ha. (But seriously either's fine with me). I'm going to be setting up a Rolz room when it happens either way.
Like I said, I want to get a general feel from the thread on this before I commit to it. Does this ruleset seem fair? Should I increase or decrease difficulties for rolls? Or does this seem legit?
I'll be blunt: I'm basically creating this "combat engine/minigame thing" on the fly, which is why it's not officially starting until I get a feel from you guys if my idea is fair or not before I make it an official thing. So here's how I'm thinking this will play out:
Foundry Raid Funtime Spectacular Tentative Rules
-We're using a d100 system for this because statistical variance is fun.
-Before the raid starts you will select a number of troops to commit to the raid. For example: 8 Veteran Guardian Teams, 5 Veteran Seeker Teams, 2 B1 Droid Groups, and an Abysswalker. Once you've got it locked in, that's all you're getting for the raid. Unfortunately Devastators and other heavy vehicles will be locked out since the fighting is going to be in a lot of corridors and there's no way to get them to the deck in question without getting full access to it first. (And uh...OOC the Devastators would be broken as all hell in this engine) There's going to be a cap of 30 troops due to there only being so much space on a station and to prevent you from drowning the enemy in rolls.
--Each of those troops will have various stat boosts due to other actions in the game as well as their rank. For example, Veteran Guardian Teams will have +15 to attack and survival due to their rank, Kyber Blasters which gives them a +5 boost to attack rolls and Beskar-Enhanced Phase I Armor which gives them a +10 chance of survival against counterattacks. This will be detailed later once things get rolling.
-It'll be divided into 2 phases: Attack and Counterattack. The first is your guys rolling per unit to shoot droids trying to beat a DC of...let's call it 40 right now to get a feel for the system, the second is them shooting back at each unit with a DC of 40 before boosts. Given that this is the first time it's not going to be too hard to kill them and they won't have much of a chance to kill your dudes for the first (second but who's counting (oh wait me)) deck but the chance of things going wrong and people dying is going to increase as you go further down as the droids get better at fighting your guys. If a unit is "killed" they'll get a survival roll with a base DC of 60 currently due to the presence of high-grade Karada cybernetics. Agents get lower DCs (50) due to Matukai training making them much more durable.
-Right now the Extermination Droids are just going to have universal DCs to get shot and identical buffs to hitting your guys but that might change depending on how things play out.
-Given that you can shut down every droid on a deck if you reach the central command of said deck, killing Extermination Droids will boost the chance of reaching it, which is a roll that takes place between the Attack and Counterattack phases with a base DC of 70. A minimum amount of droids must be destroyed before the roll can be triggered, for the moment we'll say that you need to destroy 10 units as a base, and after that each unit destroyed decreases the difficulty of the roll by 5.
-Shutting down a deck means you get to go onto the next one if you want, or you can call it a quarter and end it there. You can pull out mid-battle if things get really screwed, but it'll give the Extermination Droids a free Counterattack round.
-Hero Units are obviously going to be special in this case. They get their stat boosts (attack and defense) from Martial because fuck you they aren't going down that easy.
--Each Hero Unit also provides buffs to the raid as a whole. Greivous gives the "Scion of Kalee" buff which gives Kaleesh teams a +10 to both stats because their moral skyrockets in the presence of their demigod of war. HK gives the "Master of the Foundry" buff which decreases the shutdown DC by 10 due to his knowledge of the facility.
--Hero Units also can't die in this. Because this isn't that kind of story and it'd be super dull to say that "oh they died to random extermination droids what a shame." They will be incapacitated instead and cease to provide their buffs. They also force a reroll (one-time only) on attacks that hit them.
-Given the nature of the Abysswalkers (in that the two we have so far now have Nominal Importance), they're going to be treated as 'pseudo-heroes.' Instead of automatically dying to a successful attack they get the reroll too, but if they bite it they go into survival rolls like everyone else, though they have lower DCs to pass for that (40).
-The thread can roll for the troops if they so choose, or they can leave the rolls to my tender mercies. Mwahahaha. Ha. (But seriously either's fine with me). I'm going to be setting up a Rolz room when it happens either way.
Like I said, I want to get a general feel from the thread on this before I commit to it. Does this ruleset seem fair? Should I increase or decrease difficulties for rolls? Or does this seem legit?
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Much rather leave it too you
I hate us doing the rolz, makes me feel really anxious.
- Location
- USA
Would it be possible to run a bare bones simulation? Just to see how mechanically things work out, so you would probably do the rolls to keep it fast. I kinda want to see how hard just taking the first level assault would be, and maybe being scripted to keep advancing a level or two more. Probably have us pull out in the middle of a level too just to see if is punishing enough.
I like stress testing systems before we actually put them in play.
Thanks for the info -- very clear! I had a few questions:
Also, how many levels are there in the Foundry, and is there a cap on how many levels we can cover in this Turn's minigame? If we get really lucky, is it even possible that we could clear out the entire Foundry in one go?
Is there any reason why we wouldn't want to select all of our troops for this mission?
Will those stat boosts include any bonuses they received from this turn (namely, the Sair Frames)? Likewise, will we be able to send new droid units that we stole or produced this turn?
I'm curious about "your guys rolling to shoot droids" -- is it just a single roll per round? Do we have multiple units trying to target each new droid? How is combat affected by our sending multiple units?
How does the timing of this work? When we finish a deck, how would we decide to 'call it a quarter' and leave? Would there be an official vote held at the end of every round, or just an informal straw poll of "you good?" "yeah, we good'? How much time would be allotted for us to make this decision?
Also, how many levels are there in the Foundry, and is there a cap on how many levels we can cover in this Turn's minigame? If we get really lucky, is it even possible that we could clear out the entire Foundry in one go?
Will the combat minigame be held within the thread itself, or will we be doing the rolls on a different site like a rollz room? I ask because rollz is a bit better for doing lots and lots of dice rolling, but also because it tends to have a more even distribution of high and low rolls (I've often heard it said that the SV dice roller is 'cursed'...).
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I think this is a wise point and something we should do.
Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
- Location
- Right where I want to be
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Did a veeery basic test on my own and I think the system works!...well enough at least. Though I do plan on having an actual public test just to be sure it flies with you folks.
...Yeah okay I'm thinking I might need to cap the number of squads because there are only so many corridors on a station for people to push through. Does 30 sound good?
Bonuses will be included and you can send in the CB-3s but not the newer units.
One roll per unit. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
That's going to be a bit more difficult because obviously I want this to move fast. Let's say...12 hours in-thread to decide? Though that also depends on how many people show up for the Rolz room; if there's enough I might just strawpoll there.
11 levels need to be cleared. There's really no cap to stop at if you get stupid lucky because honestly that's just how this quest rolls.
It's going to be a Rolz room to keep things moving fast. Plus it'd be more fun to see you go NOOOO when an extermination droid somehow incapacitates HK. Or something.
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I don't really have a concrete idea of how many or how few 30 would be, in terms of how far that group could get through the Foundry.
Checking the front page, we currently have:
44 Guardians
45 Seekers
35 Force Users
17 battle droids
14 Kaleesh
8 Wookies
Setting the cap at 30 seems... low, considering how many bodies we can throw at this thing.
Also, how are you counting 'heroic' individuals -- HK-47, Grievous, and our Force Users? Every other unit is 'squad' or 'group'; would individuals be grouped like that, or counted toward the cap as individuals?
Sorry, still confused. One roll per unit per round? So if we send 30 units, we'd roll 30 times for Attack before the exterminator droids started their Counterattack? Will we be facing all the droids on a given level at the same time, or would we encounter groups of droids sequentially as we explore the different corridors? (How would that be represented, if at all? I just think that 'divide and conquer' tactics would be a wise idea when attacking a massive installation like this...).
Sounds good. So, we do a round on rollz, finish it up, you post here that the round is over (perhaps include some results like casualty figures and how far we've come), we vote to decide, 12 hours later the tally tells us if we keep going, then it's back to the rollz rooms? Unless we get like 50 or 75 people show up to watch, in which case a strawpoll can be taken and a second round started immediately, if that's the decision.
(OTOH, setting a consistent time of day might be easier to keep track of, to encourage participation. You might let the vote go closer to 20 hours, so you can start the next round at the same time as the last one).
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- Location
- Australia
Absolutely do not let other people roll. Roll them all yourself. Letting other people roll will bloat the time between updates significantly and quite frankly people just want more updates over anything. Do not let this get bogged down in any way.
Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
- Location
- Right where I want to be
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Only so many corridors in a station man. You can't fit everyone in there.
As for heroes...let's say that HK/Grievous are free, but Force Users aren't. It's a necessary sacrifice for mechanics over gameplay. Don't think about it too hard.
Mmm, I see what the problem is. Your vision is more complicated than mine, I'm rolling Everyone vs. Everyone. 30 rolls for attack, 30 counterattack rolls There's going to be a "soft" amount of droids per deck, basically if you hit DC 0 for the shutdown roll that basically means you've killed everything there or at least reduced local resistance enough to make the capture easy.
Basically this. Consistent times would definitely be set up once things are finalized.
It'd be in a room, meaning that it'd be instant. There is no delay.
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- Location
- The internet
I'm more worried about Palatine or others noticing massive troop diversions.
Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
- Location
- Right where I want to be
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Like they would. Ciaran knows of plenty of existing smuggling routes and has even more new ones thanks to the Claatuvac Guild's help.
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
sound fine too me
Understood. And while I hate to make things more difficult for ourselves...
...this would indicate that the actual cap of droids per level is 24.
Or perhaps that'd be just for the starting level, and as we get deeper into the Foundry each droid killed reduces the shutdown DC by 4, or by 3, or by 2...?
I'm assuming we won't just rampage our way through the facility in a single turn. Perhaps set the cap at 30 this time, then next Turn you can adjust it as needed? (Still wondering how you count individuals, though).
EDIT: I'd also point out that this will be one of the first times we'll be able to use those Guardian squads et al., so setting a high cap is one of the few opportunities you have as GM to reduce the number of troops who work for us. Otherwise, our private army will just continue to grow...
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- Location
- USA
Even in a room you can get a lot of delays on rolls.
Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
- Location
- Right where I want to be
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Right, another clarification: the counterattack rolls will never decrease. Otherwise we go back to the "drown them in numbers" thing which is what the Extermination Droids are trying to do.
There aren't actually Only 24 Extermination Droid Squads per deck. Once again that detail is more rooted in the mechanics than in the fiction.
Though we'll see about that Shutdown DC thing, that might replace increased droid stats or go alongside it depending on how the tests go.
It also means that you run the risk of losing troops before Palpatine in the event you want to or are forced to Go Loud. Just saying...
Alright fair enough. Thread participation to that degree is probably impossible in these circumstances.
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- Location
- Sweden
So, squad makeup idea:
Our 2 Abyss Walkers, because they are really really good.
4 B2 Super Battle Droid groups
2 CB-3 Droid groups
1 BX Command Droid group
1 Dwarf Spider Droid group
Our Tier 3 droids, since they were improved by Cheriss they're probably pretty good. The only problem with them is that the BX Command Droids are the only ones we can replace at the moment.
10 Kaleesh Warriors. With Grievous on the field, they will be very strong, but I don't want to risk losing all of them if we get bad luck, so holding 4 groups back.
5 Wookie Warriors
5 B1 Battle Droids.
These ones over Veteran Guardians mostly because 1) We're only starting the raid now so we don't really need our best, and 2) These guys are the very definition of cannon fodder, since we gain more of them quickly, and we have a cap on how many we can have.
Might switch in some Agents or Basic Guardians if their chances of tiering up is higher if sent into combat.
Our 2 Abyss Walkers, because they are really really good.
4 B2 Super Battle Droid groups
2 CB-3 Droid groups
1 BX Command Droid group
1 Dwarf Spider Droid group
Our Tier 3 droids, since they were improved by Cheriss they're probably pretty good. The only problem with them is that the BX Command Droids are the only ones we can replace at the moment.
10 Kaleesh Warriors. With Grievous on the field, they will be very strong, but I don't want to risk losing all of them if we get bad luck, so holding 4 groups back.
5 Wookie Warriors
5 B1 Battle Droids.
These ones over Veteran Guardians mostly because 1) We're only starting the raid now so we don't really need our best, and 2) These guys are the very definition of cannon fodder, since we gain more of them quickly, and we have a cap on how many we can have.
Might switch in some Agents or Basic Guardians if their chances of tiering up is higher if sent into combat.
Killerflood
Corporal Cannonfodder
- Location
- Saṃsāra
You will give us a link to this Rolz room, right?
Dr. Snark
Exactly As Planned...Probably
- Location
- Right where I want to be
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Well yes, but I'm waiting for a bit longer to see if anyone else has any objections/comments/whatever. Probably going to do a test run in an hour or two.
They do. But of course they could die in combat.
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Barondoctor
The things I chase come to me.
- Location
- The other side of the mirror
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Send the Agents and / or Apprentices. I want to see Riphath reach actual nominal importance! (This idea is in no way related to anything that makes tactical or strategic sense and is entirely related to omake-based greed.)
- Location
- Sweden
If we only send droids, we won't have a full squad. We only have 18 droid groups.
Alternate setup, using all our droids, and Agents:
10 B1 Battle Droids
4 B2 Super Battle Droids
2 CB-3 Droid groups
1 BX Command Droid group
1 Dwarf Spider Droid group
5 Abyss Agents
7 Kaleesh Warriors
All setups should really include some Kaleesh, because the bonus from Grievous is somewhat wasted otherwise.
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Killerflood
Corporal Cannonfodder
- Location
- Saṃsāra
Which is weird because we should have been producing B2's and others, right? Cap on B1's but what happened with the others?
- Location
- Sweden
We don't have any factories for the other types of droids
EDIT:
Kaathe BX Commando Droid Factory (+1 BX Commando droid squad per turn) On Kiln
Droid Factory (+2 'basic droid' squads per turn) On Coruscant
These are our only Droid factories.
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