We're not allowed to call it indoctrination any more, Marketing says we have to say orientation now. :p
Still, even before I touch the thorny subject known as having to 'legally' hand over the saved children from a possible cleansing by Sith conspiracy...

On one end, one could argue that 'casualties' happen, and from there; it could be 'easy' to cover up a few dead children, maybe even argue or 'justify' that they'd be safer if they're 'assumed' casualties... While they continue to be future Watcher's without faces, say. But eh, by that point, it ceases to be a matter of 'grabbing', and more 'reacting' to the world's tides, if it may.

Something which, I'd still... Hindsight, I sure as hell hope I don't get tempted to write a single omake here, 'least I imagine a speculative "If Palpatine got so trolled, he's going full Demon's Souls on our asses." Which surely may not lead to either 'hidden training montage' counter, or look for an "Alfred" sensitive to go all King's Field on our asses. :p
 
So...it strikes me that Ciaren shared quite a bit less Intel the Dooku did. I don't expect everything, but honestly it seems more IC for the master spy and diplomat to give Dooku more temptation to work with/trust her.

Anyone want to write an omake about things that will make his eyes pop?

Obviously stuff like the Dagger of Mortis, our secret planet, and The Factory will remain secret, but sharing just how compromised and how long we've known about Sidious' various plans are will be nice, especially ones Dooku might not know about. Sharing info on Mynngal-mynngal would also be nice, effectively harmless, and give Dooku a better perspective on the real galactic stakes.

In the sense of perspective, I feel like Dooku is also kind of biased about the Sith. I doubt the Jedi actually had much detailed or nuanced knowledge, and anything Palpy gave him is suspect. Tempted to introduce him to Vectivus as a pre-banenite Sith with a good deal of lore no longer around. Also a great example of just how varied a 'Darth' can be. Might be a bit far to go though. In the same sense, while the Dagger is off-limits, Mortis itself could be quite educational. Dooku is already disillusioned with the effectiveness of the Light, but he still seems to cling a bit too strongly to the power of the Dark-side, if only to justify his actions to himself in my mind. Knowing that the Light and Dark are (almost) quite literally a couple of squabbling brats that Old Man Gray Balance has to take to his knee every now and then would be very amusing, and definitely expand his perspective.
 
To be fair, Dooku does have legitimate grievances with Palpatine and Ciaran was going to be doing him a few favors for him. Having her get rid of some people he doesn't like is a win-win in his book. Not to mention Ciaran told him that one member of the board was dead and be an impersonation for a few days is helpful. The Count can work with that forewarning a little.

Of course, Dooku will only work with us when we clean house a little. So the intel drop would not be that big of a deal for him.
 
i wonder, once dooku takes full control of the cis, will he continue the war? sue for peace and have the cis still be a thing by the end of the war?
if so thats three major political powers, cis, republic, and if we can keep our guys with us, what ever we would end up calling them.
 
I thought his master started it, but Vectivus was sorta weird and exempt of the system as it had only just started, and he had no ambitions or apprentice.
It was never stated that he had no apprentice. Considering how the rule of two works, it is impossible for him to not have had an apprentice. There is no information saying the system had only just started when he became a Banite Sith.
 
Is there a 'genealogy' of the Baneite Sith somewhere? I mean, we know it started with Bane, who had an apprentice who's name I can't remember, and ended with Sidious, who never really had a proper apprentice (as opposed to disposable weapons) because he intended to live forever. But how much do we know about those in between?
 
He was a Banite Sith.
Where's the evidence of that? Because you keep saying that, but you never ever provide a source.

And the fact is that he didn't kill his master. He, so far as we know, never took an apprentice. And he retired peacefully to run his business so he certainly wasn't killed by an apprentice.

Not every sith was stupid enough to be a Baneite man.
 
In fact, the article even says that one of the sources used (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia), states that his Phantom meeting with someone in 40 ABY happened millenia after his death, which means he was dead before Bane( born 1026 BBY) was around, though another source says it was only centuries after his death, so it's rather unclear when he actually lived.
 
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Is there any proof that Vectivus actually existed in canon and wasn't just invented wholesale by Lumaiya in order to turn Jacen to the dark side?
 
It was never stated that he had no apprentice. Considering how the rule of two works, it is impossible for him to not have had an apprentice. There is no information saying the system had only just started when he became a Banite Sith.
"impossible for him to not have a apprentice"
ya it is, he could have just NOT TAKEN ONE, we literaly know next to nothing of his time as a sith. or wether or not he had a apprentice.
also he was never murdered, im pretty sure it was expressively stated that he died surrounded by friends and family and all that, so not apprentice murder.
 
"impossible for him to not have a apprentice"
ya it is, he could have just NOT TAKEN ONE, we literaly know next to nothing of his time as a sith. or wether or not he had a apprentice.
also he was never murdered, im pretty sure it was expressively stated that he died surrounded by friends and family and all that, so not apprentice murder.
He was a Banite Sith, meaning that the only other Sith besides him that could exist would be his apprentice. Had he not taken an apprentice, the Sith would've died out.
 
He was a Banite Sith, meaning that the only other Sith besides him that could exist would be his apprentice. Had he not taken an apprentice, the Sith would've died out.
Or Vectivus was the apprentice, who realized he didn't want to kill his master, let alone train someone else to ultimately kill him. When he felt strong enough, he left his master and returned to his former life, at which point his master threw his hands in the air and found someone else to train.

Or, you know, maybe he wasn't a Baneite Sith? I know it's on Wookiepedia -- originally because the 'Legacy' EU books mentioned that he was 'centuries' old rather than 'millennia', and then because the 'Darth Plagueis' book listed Vectivus's name as one of Plagueis's predecessors (despite not providing any other identifying information). It's definitely 'canon', but the evidence is pretty thin, and Vectivus's life really doesn't match what we know of the Baneite Sith. This is one case where I'd be entirely comfortable going against canon.
 
I mostly just want hime to be Baneite so that when we finally get him a body we get an extremely powerful combatant on our side, beyond what we'd get from a pre-Baneite Sith.
 
I mostly just want hime to be Baneite so that when we finally get him a body we get an extremely powerful combatant on our side, beyond what we'd get from a pre-Baneite Sith.
I really don't understand why you think that Banite Sith, a system designed to ensure that knowledge and skill is lost as the apprentice murders the master at the first sign of weakness instead of actually learning all the deep mysteries of the force, would be stronger than other types of Sith.

Banites are the reason that most of the advanced Darkside techniques have been lost outside of the occasional surviving Sith groups that decided that Bane was a moron.
 
I mostly just want hime to be Baneite so that when we finally get him a body we get an extremely powerful combatant on our side, beyond what we'd get from a pre-Baneite Sith.
Fair enough, though remember that while the Baneith Sith might have been stronger fighters, they had lost a lot of ancient Sith lore (sometimes by accident, sometimes by design). A pre-Banite even a hundred years before the Battle of Ruusan, would have a far broader education than that of Bane and his successors. In terms of quest mechanics, think of it as sacrificing a bit of Martial to pick up a lot more Lore.
 
I mostly just want hime to be Baneite so that when we finally get him a body we get an extremely powerful combatant on our side, beyond what we'd get from a pre-Baneite Sith.
dude, being banite does not = super strong sith of super awesomeness.
the entire rule of two does not work anyways, the master always picks like 5 apprentice's and the apprentice's usualy kills the master in his fucking sleep. kinda like palps poisoned his master...or sleep murdered i forget wich one he did.
 
I really don't understand why you think that Banite Sith, a system designed to ensure that knowledge and skill is lost as the apprentice murders the master at the first sign of weakness instead of actually learning all the deep mysteries of the force, would be stronger than other types of Sith.
Apprentices only kill their masters once they've learned all they could from them. This is because they are not stupid. They want the knowledge and techniques their masters have and will wait until they've learned them all before killing said masters. The idea that they kill them before learning the mysteries of the Force is a false one.

That said, think your untrue theory through a bit. Apprentices are only at all capable of killing their masters if they are more powerful than them. Even if they didn't have all their knowledge, they still would've been more powerful than their masters, otherwise they would've failed in their attempts. If Vectivus killed his master, it's only because he was more powerful than his master, who was more powerful than their master, who was more powerful than their master, all the way to Bane, who under this system would've been the weakest of all the Baneite Sith regardless of whatever knowledge he had.

Banites are the reason that most of the advanced Darkside techniques have been lost outside of the occasional surviving Sith groups that decided that Bane was a moron.
Actually, in order to explain why modern Sith lack so many of the techniques more ancient Sith had, it was revealed that there was one reason and one reason alone that such was the case: Darth Gravid. He went insane trying to master both the Light Side and the Dark Side, leading to him destroying most of the Sith's knowledge so that he could teach future Sith solely according to his teachings. What little Sith lore remained was because his apprentice killed him before he could destroy it all.

Fair enough, though remember that while the Baneith Sith might have been stronger fighters, they had lost a lot of ancient Sith lore (sometimes by accident, sometimes by design). A pre-Banite even a hundred years before the Battle of Ruusan, would have a far broader education than that of Bane and his successors. In terms of quest mechanics, think of it as sacrificing a bit of Martial to pick up a lot more Lore.
Vectivus is useless for that purpose. What knowledge he has has already been collected by the Abyss Watchers. The only remaining question is how good of a fighter he is, in which case it's better for him to be Baneite rather than pre-Baneite. The only thing the choice will make now is how good of a fighter he'll be.
 
sith....being smart. um, no sorry man. sith are emotional assholes and only like, 3 of all known siths ever thought ahead, and mother FUCKING PALPS HIMSELF killed his master in his sleep, before he could ever learn all he could from his master.
so no, they dont wait, if they see a chance to kill their master they will take it like palps did.
 
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