TBF, Mags, you have been doing a lot of the heavylifting for the quest, so this will be in good hands.
To be clear to everyone, this is just me burning out on imagination of the quest, since my muse has been hitting me over the head a lot with so many different ideas that I just can't find myself too interested in this.
I'll still hang out here, though, since this still does have a sepcial place in my heart.
I'd like to thank you all for making this a wonderful experience while it lasted.
I'd also like to thank @Magoose, @Fluffy_serpent, and @Martin Noctis for doing so much to help prepare and write this quest. I couldn't have done it without you all.
Well, we have some comics already drawn in manga style at the moment, so Toriyama would just be drawing more of what he does instead of trying to change.
I do wonder though, what caused him to jump ship? I mean, he is not yet the powerhouse of OTL, but he's still popular and quite a sensation after writing Dr. Slump. Hell, the anime adaptation should still be going strong.
I do wonder though, what caused him to jummp ship? I mean, he is not yet the powerhouse of OTL, but he's still popular and quite a sensarion after writing Dr. Slump. Hell, the anime adaptation should still be going strong.
Honestly? Thank you for saying it instead of is having to find out when they got out up. I had some pitches that I was gonna put up soon that if they got SP, I probably would have been upset, so it's nice to get a heads-up so I can save those for later and put out pitches I don't mind not getting unique rewards for.
My favorite Akira Toriyama story I heard was about how much of the Cell Saga was him making it up as he went. The first two androids are introduced and his editor goes "These are the villains you built so much up for? An old man and a clown?". So that leads to 17 and 18. But that lead to "Now the villains are just a bunch of spoiled kids!". And that finally lead to a villain everyone was satisfied with, Cell.
...Odd how? Odd as in "We're transitioning and we don't know what is good?" or more like "Kids don't want stories that show characters gradually growing in strength! That's just a fad!"
...Odd how? Odd as in "We're transitioning and we don't know what is good?" or more like "Kids don't want stories that show characters gradually growing in strength! That's just a fad!"
I might be overemotional since this is my favorite entry in the entire saga, and the one which introduced me to Indiana Jones as well, so seeing it be changed in any way was never going to settle well with me. In the end, if everyone likes it and agrees with it then I can't do anything. Not to mention that I myself have made changes to some films I've pitched as well, so I'd be a hypocrite if I ever protested that it could not be done.
Having said that...why would you mess with perfection?
I mean, I can understand Temple of Doom since it has a bad (and undeserved) reputation, and even then I gave my suggestions before trying to put in any pitch (which I've yet to do), but The Last Crusade?! That movie was a perfect bookend for the saga, the balance and interaction between the characters were amazing!
Not to mention that adding another character (and Bruce at that) into what should be Harrison Ford's own trilogy where he's the main character...I don't know man, it just doesn't feel right.
I totally getcha on the messing with perfection, and I understand completely where you're coming from. If you'll let me, I'd like to present an arguement in my defense. I mainly am making the pitch as a way to see how Harrison and Bruce would work together as actors, how their dynamics would play out and so on, and I honestly thought that IJ was the best way to explore it, I don't really intend (nor want) Bruce to overshadow Harrison in any way, I just had a fun idea for an alt-Last Crusade.
I could rework the pitch to redo Temple of Doom instead or even the haunted mansion idea (or even scrap it and do the Michael Collins pitch), but I'd like to see what everyone else thinks before doing so.
I totally getcha on the messing with perfection, and I understand completely where you're coming from. If you'll let me, I'd like to present an arguement in my defense. I mainly am making the pitch as a way to see how Harrison and Bruce would work together as actors, how their dynamics would play out and so on, and I honestly thought that IJ was the best way to explore it, I don't really intend (nor want) Bruce to overshadow Harrison in any way, I just had a fun idea for an alt-Last Crusade.
A fun idea that still, as I mentioned before, messes with perfection. Not to mention that as you said in your pitch, you also want to make it the second entry when it works perfectly as the end for the entire trilogy and the personal growth of Indiana Jones, who was always looking for his father's approval, but now he also had a brother with which to contend, thus having to split the focus in that relationship as well. At the same time, you want to give more time to Elsa, despite her already having enough to explain her character and properly develop it.
There is a reason why I've not touched Spielberg's films, save for giving some of my opinions on them. The man, unlike many other filmmakers, knew what he was doing when he worked on many of his films. not that he didn't make mistakes along the way, but the Indiana Jones trilogy was not one of them.
As you've said however, let's wait and see what the rest thinks. As for Michael Collins, if you're planning on doing that, please make it an Ardmore Pitch.
Iraq Consolidates: Saddam's Rise and Khomeini's Fall - Time Magazine July 1982
As the Falklands War wraps up with the toppling of the Argentine Junta and the British Navy sailing home to jubilee and thunderous performance of 'Hail Britannia', the world turns its attention to a new conflict with the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. While an important war in its own right, the hyperfocus by the West on the Levant has once again caused willful ignorance to the ongoing brawl of the two great powers of the Persian Gulf, Iraq and Iran, causing great developments to go unchecked. For while ignored, the war has not been silent with Iraq for the past year having partake in a grand march across Khuzestan against an ineffective Iranian resistance.
In January, the Iraqi Army would consolidate total control of the Khuzestan province after its third and final grand offensive which saw the last of Khuzestan's besieged cities surrender to the Iraqi onslaught. Since then, Iran has launched multiple offensives to try and reclaim their lost territory, though any temporary gains are quickly repelled by the Iraqi defense who often boast of favored casualty rates and grand territorial sweeps.
Last month, Saddam Hussein would deliver a peace offer to Iran, with the Persian state to cede the Arab-dominated Khuzestan to Iraq, the defense of Sunni Muslims within Iran, and for the cession of Iranian support for "seditious and rebellious elements" of Iraqi society. Khomeini would staunchly refuse the offer, condemning the "Heretical Baa'thist Regime" and boldly declaring that the war would not end until the ruling Ba'athist party was replaced by an Islamic regime. While it could be interpreted as a rousing call to action, after nearly two years of continuous failure and the Iraqi Army furthering their defensive emplacements in Khuzestan by the day, the call to action rings hollow. While the South Atlantic is now at peace, the Middle East continues to burn fiercely.
The Great March East
After a short rest and respite, hostilities would resume in April of 1981 with the advance of the Iraqi Army. In a copy of Soviet doctrine, the Iraqi military would perform deep operation maneuvers to reach the Zagros mountains and encircle the Khuzestan province. Few towns or cities would be conquered upon, and instead a large ring would be placed around the province, cutting off the resisting cities from further reinforcements and aid, and then allowing the Iraqi Army to besiege and conquer at will. The plan would be heavily successful thanks to Iraqi domination of the roads and close and consistent helicopter support which toppled existing Iranian defenses. While the Iraqi Army was stretched thin, it had successfully cut off Khuzestan with a new wave of divisions that had been conscripted helping to fill up the gaps while the Republican Guard performed assault actions to conquer besieged cities.
Once the Zagros mountains were reached, a temporary lull in fighting aside from skirmishes in the mountains was maintained until August where the Republican Guard began Operation Domino to force the surrender of besieged Iranian cities. Lacking in food and with ammunition running low, the situation in cities such as Dezful, Ahvaz and Ramhormoz was already a desperate situation for loyal Iranians in spite of their rather creative insurgency tactics which forced the Iraqi Guard into harsh street to street fighting. Unfortunately for the defenders, the situation would collapse with the beginning of Iraq's deployment of chemical weapons. Having been stockpiled since Romania, Iraq would launch volleys of Sarin, Mustard and Tabun. Lacking any NBC defenses and medical supplies running desperately low, the chemical weapons would prove stunningly effective at clearing out defensive blocks, though its indiscriminate usage would lead to tens of thousands of civilian casualties, a situation made worse by non-Arabs largely refused treatment by the conquering Iraqi medical corps.
Though Iranian Militias put forth their most valiant defenses, there is only so much that can be done with so little, and thus they resolved to make as many Iraqis bleed as possible in the hopes of buying time for an eventual counteroffensive, one which would never come by the end of the offensive. Operation Domino was a smashing strategic success, cementing Iraqi occupation of Khuzestan and eliminating the majority of native resistance. It did come at a high cost however of 40,000 casualties to Iraq, though such tremendous losses are but a shadow of Iran's own sorrows where an estimated 100-150,000 casualties would incur, more than half through chemical warfare and just as many taken prisoner. The usage of chemical weapons drew harsh condemnation, though Saddam deflected that he was launching them at legitimate military targets.
Iran Flounders Back
In March of 1982, Iran would launch the first of many counteroffensives to liberate Khuzestan from Iraqi occupation. In the time since the Zagros offensive, a new wave of conscription and enlistment occurred which raised the Iranian military to 700,000 active duty soldiers, the first large surge of supplies and equipment from China were arriving, and the Iranian economy had finished conversion into a total war footing. Unfortunately for Iran, it's potential would be hampered by a large series of purges undertaken at the behest of the Guardian Council to correct "Treason" within the ranks and punished those who were seen as responsible for the Iraqi success. Thus tens of thousands of high ranking, experienced and skilled Iranian officers and veterans would either be arrested, killed or driven into exile. Thus, the core leadership of the Iranianian military was young, untested and largely promoted based off of loyalty and adherence to fundamentalist principles. In essence, the Iranian wounds were self-inflicted.
The counteroffensive would open up with Iran's own deployment of chemical weapons in the form of a Mustard Gas barrage, though of lesser number to the typical Iraqi assault. While the mustard deployments would provide a tactical victory in the dispersal of frontline units and helping to form an advance, it did hurt Iran's international standing by placing them on the same level as Iraq in terms of WMDs, even if Iran was legally allowed to retaliate after Iraq launched first. Unfortunately for Iran, the effects were mitigated by Saddam having supplied his own soldiers with NBC gear and gas masks after the first Iraqi strike, thus after the element of surprise was afflicted, Iranian units within 24-72 hours encountered protected Iranian units in the next stage of defensive lines. The Iranian advance was further hampered by an extreme Iraqi investment in minefields and defensive trenches which made rapid and mass offensive movement unfeasible.
What would prevent the offensive from achieving any long-term success was the disaster of the Battle of Izeh. The Battle, one of the largest tank battles since World War II, would see over 300 Iranian tanks and over 400 armored vehicles and transports advance forward on the main roads towards the city of Izeh with minimal infantry escort and artillery and helicopter that was only a fraction of the firepower required for such a massive operation. They would be met by 400 tanks from the 6th and 9th Iraqi Armored divisions, largely T-72s in the eastern outskirts of Izeh where they had extensively mined the approaching fields and had filled the city with mortar and artillery emplacements along with close support from Iraqi helicopter wings. The result was an open slaughter of the advancing Iranian formation, the overwhelming majority of their armored units while the Iraqi tanks were in comfortable positions. The Battle of Izeh would see over 250 tanks captured or destroyed along with over 200 casualties to Iranian APC and IFV units in return for the loss of 54 Iraqi tanks and 62 APC and IFV units.
The loss of a majority of their armored elements ensured that any Iranian gains were unfeasible in the wake of an Iraqi counterattack with fresh armored units and an effective combined arms operation. By May, the over 500 squared kilometers of Iranian territory that had been liberated were lost again, and Iran kicked out of Khuzestan, affirming Iraq's control of the province. Though Iraq would suffer between 20,000-30,000 casualties that would mean that half of the original invasion force was out of action, the price was viewed as well worth it for keeping Khuzestan in firm occupation.
Iraqi Earth, Iranian Sea and Sky
The disparity between the Iraqi and Iranian militaries largely come into differing masteries of the land and sky. Thanks to a surge in Soviet surplus, Iraq has been able to quadruple its stockpiles from its initial arsenal of vehicles and heavy weaponry at the outbreak of hostilities, at the same time including captured Iranian materials to either disassemble or use for the Republican Guard. In contrast, Iran has seen a dramatic decline in vehicles due to a combination of a loss of experienced crews and tremendous defeats in battle. It is currently estimated that Iran has less than 100 tanks in active deployment along with little more than 200 armored vehicles of varying purposes. This has caused Iran to rely heavily on confiscated civilian vehicles to carry out its logistical and transport needs, some vehicles even being converted into armored units to aid on the front line. Thus, Iraq has had domination of the roads to carry out its offensive, back infantry action and cut off Iranian coordination and supply networks. The reliance of Iranian artillery and other heavy weapons systems on American models has had a damaging blow on Iran's impact for strategic advances as long-term bombardments are infeasible, limiting Iranian artillery to short tactical barrages in comparison to the more sustained Iraqi attacks while Iraqi losses can be replenished by Soviet aid. While Iran is doing its best to adopt Chinese systems, currently it is setback with a 8 to 1 ratio by the Iraqi artillery.
In short, Iraq has the armor and heavy weapons to dominate in conventional battles and when combined with the liberal usage of chemical weaponry, can easily overrun large scale Iranian formations and conquer urban sectors at a rapid pace. Iran has done its best to counter such by relying on the Revolutionary Guard Corps and Basij militia to overwhelm isolated Iraqi units and launch tactical surgical strikes against Iraqi defensive emplacements and armor to poke holes in Iraq's defense. However, the lack of a sizable domestic arms industry in comparison to the immense Romanian arsenal prevents any coordinated theater wide operations to perform at a similar decisive scale. Any advancements performed by Iran are often done at high casualties due to a lack of suitable firepower and protection for the militia units launched in wave attacks, and when going on the offensive, bulges are usually created to quickly be closed by Iraqi units and then capture or decimate the stranded Iranians. The solution that Iran has employed has been to increase the number of soldiers used in the attacks along with widening the scale of operations in hopes of creating a permanent fissure to exploit. While this has resulted in greater Iraqi casualties, strategic gains are almost always negligible.
Perhaps the main factor that has kept Iran in the fight is its naval supremacy and air superiority. As the belligerent with a sizable coastline and respectable green water navy inherited from Imperial Iran, Iran is able to escort its oil to international markets to prevent the economy from outright collapsing while keeping the Iraqi oil trade in check by only relying on existing land pipelines. For the first year of the war, Iran would largely control the skies thanks to the superiority of the F-14 Tomcat and other American supplied aircraft to contest the advance of Iraqi fighters. The Iraqi Air Force could launch no decisive strike against protected Iranian bases while Iran could in return launch limited tactical strikes against Iraqi logistical lines and oil fields. However, while having a superior kill ratio of general 2 or 3 to 1, Iran could not fully destroy Iraqi air capabilities and each kill by Iraq would be an irreversible blow due to lack of replacement supplies along with the established loss of hundreds of pilots and officers through the purges. The Iraqi offensives in 1981 would be built on the mass deployment of SAM sites and other Soviet defenses to the front lines which would greatly hinder Iranian air capabilities. At the same time, Soviet supplied MIG-25 and MIG-31 would arrive in Iraq in the scale of hundreds of fighters along with Soviet trainers. When Iran attempted its counteroffensives, Tomcats, Phantoms and Freedoms would duel in the skies with MIGs in engagements where they were often outnumbered. Currently, the aerial war is at a standstill but with the American fleet of aircraft near exhausted and Chinese aircraft still being trained in, it can be expected to shift to Iraq soon.
Tale of Two Homefronts
When it comes to the homefronts of the two beligerents, the situation could not be more difficult. In Iraq, aside from occasional air raid sirens and the bustle of military convoys on Iraqi roads, life seems little different from pre-war. If anything, the national mood of Iraq seems to be jubilant from the constant tactical and strategic battlefield victories while patriotism and devotion to the ruling Ba'athist by both Sunni and Shia Arabs are high, securing the state's power. With a reliable flow of oil money, the economy has seen little damage, if anything being fueled by growth from record low unemployment in war factories and enlistment where much of Iraq's youth seek to join in search of adventure and duty to nation.
To the east within Iran, the mood could not be more opposite as the nation as a whole is tired, paranoid and depressed. The promises of the revolution only three years prior have seemingly dried up, and while Iraq's aggression was used as a rallying cry for national unity, the lack of any sort of significant success has spread defeatism and cynicism among the general population. For a theocratic regime whose mandate is built on divine will, to so strongly lose to an enemy nation run by the rival denomination has served to backfire Khomeini's rhetoric, fueling beliefs that Allah either favors Iraq or is punishing Iran for overthrowing the Shah. Even if the nation was enthusiastic in its defense, it is hard to maintain optimism with an increasing number of loved ones returning home in body bags, record high inflation with tremendous growth by the month, energy shortages and the lack of previously normal consumer goods thanks to sanctions and Iran being cut off from the global market.
To make matters worse is an increasingly tight grip by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps domestically with defeat on the battlefield not blamed on organization, equipment disparity or the skill of Iraq, but on dissent at home which is causing a "Stab in the Back" process to sabotage the war effort similar to the myths perpetuated by Nazi Germany in regards to World War I. The Revolutionary Guard and Islamic Courts continue to arrest and execute or imprison Iran's leading officers and veterans for supposed incompetence on the battlefield or imagined crimes against the state. Criticism towards the government and the revolution in any form is looked upon as collusion with Iraq. Making the situation worse is an outbreak of protests, and then insurgency by a number of groups, most predominantly the People's Mujahadeen (MEK), Tudeh Party and the Royal Restoration Force fighting in the name of democratic revolutionism, Communism and Royalism respectively. With protests and public defiance met with zealous reprisals by the National Police prompt a devolution into violence and sabotage.
Apathy and Disgust
If the Soviet-Romanian War is the international community at its most noble and proactive, Iran-Iraq is the world at its most apathetic and disinterested with those who do pay attention largely filled with disgust. While in theory Iran as the defensive nation suffering an unjust war of aggression should be the sympathetic state to rally the world for in the same manner as the United Kingdom, Khomeini and the ruling clerics have actively alienated any avenues of support with the implementation of harsh Sharia laws that turn away the Liberal West while the local Arab monarchies are frightened of Iran in a similar manner to Revolutionary France with Khomeini actively declaring monarchies as "Un-islamic". The downfall of the Shah alienated the 1st world and the ongoing repression of Socialism pushes the 2nd firmly in Iraq's camp.
The only friends to Iran are partners of opportunity and states whose grudges against Iraq run deeper than any fear of the Islamic Revolution. Turkey has shared the burden of refugees and has been accused of funneling surplus parts across the border to Iran to help keep its American weaponry and gear maintained. China and North Korea funnel weapons and vehicles into Iran to replace the American stockpile in a "Guns for Oil" exchange where barrels of oil are flowed back at cheap, if not free exchange. Traditional American ally Israel has been said to supply Iran with spare parts and intelligence. An odd relationship considering the highly antisemitic rhetoric of Tehran, though the active anti-Israeli policies of Baghdad present the greater danger. Then there is a brotherhood of pariahs with Libya and Syria supporting Iran in arms and diplomacy, though the extent of such support has been put into question when a bluff to cut off Iraqi oil shipments to Tartus was called by Saddam who mobilized four divisions to the Syrian border, with Iraqi oil continuing to flow through Syrian pipelines.
However, while Iraq could have had ample opportunity to be the favored state, the tyranny of Saddamn Hussein who relies on brute force instead of scripture to justify his reign and the many atrocities committed by the Iraqi Army keep most nations at an arm's length to Iraq, neutrality prevailing only due to a greater dislike for Iran. The deployment of chemical weapons as a first strike shocked and disturbed most of the West due to flashbacks of Romania. Romania itself would be the first nation to break diplomatic relations and even go as far as to ban Iraqi oil, declaring the Ba'athist to be "Soviets in Desert Camo". Existing policies which sanction Iraq as a sponsor of terror have been kept, at least on paper, and most critically France, the second highest supplier of arms to Iraq, would freeze future contracts under order from Napoleon Bonaparte in protest to Iraq's chemical stockpile. All this being said, moral objections to Iraq do not seem to halt commercial ties as millions of barrels consumed by the West on a daily basis are from Iraq, thus funding Iraq's military budget. There is also the exchange of dual-use technology to aid the military, medicine and food and other forms of aid that keep the Iraqi economy stable, if not robust during wartime.
However, there is a score of support for Iraq from the autocracies of the Third World along with heavy if not overflowing support from the Warsaw Pact. While the Pact as a whole remained staunchly neutral in Romania, it's absence is being made up for in the middle of renewed oppression by occupying Soviet troops with a heavy flow of material into Iraq along with the active deployment of advisors to train Iraqi soldiers and pilots in the use of Soviet technology, and in some cases to learn from Iraq's recent success on how to move forward from the failures of Romania. Iran has frequently accused the Soviet Union of sponsoring the growth of the Tudeh. In response to such hysteria, Iran has placed ten brigades on their border with the Soviet Union, but such an active deployment hinders the war effort against Iraq.
Then there is regional support, with Iraq's success making Saddam a hero to the Arab world, the likes of which there has been no equal since Nasser. In a geopolitical state where most dictators within the Middle East have accomplished little besides oppressing their own people, Iraq's battlefield success against Iran in the name of liberating oppressed Arab peoples has garnered a developing cult of personality towards Saddam Hussein with thousands of fighters across the Arab world journeying to Iraq to aid in the struggle. Such a response is joined with large financial aid and an ease of oil shipments by the Gulf states, though the domestic rise in popularity of Saddam Hussein as an ideal strongman and unifying figure has caused previously friendly Arab states to drift away and potentially revert back to their previously antagonistic relationship with Iraq, the greater fear of Iran now being washed away by their consistent battlefield failures.
Frozen Desert
For the near future the Iran-Iraq War looks to be set as a frozen conflict with similar intensity to the Korean War in 1952 and 1953. Having achieved all of his desired military objectives, there is no reason for Saddam to go on the offensive and thus the ball is in Iran and Khomeini's court for how the rest of the war shall proceed. Unfortunately for Iran, with each passing day, victory looks unlikely as simply continuing the war places Iran in a catch22. It can pursue a pause in operations and time to train their military to become an effective peer fighting force, but with each passing day discontent grows domestically while Iraqi fortifications strengthen, and Iran's vaulted advantage of its Air Force becomes increasingly irrelevant. However, to launch an attack now in the thin hope of reclaiming its territory is to do battle with a heavily flawed, demoralized and bloody military that can make the greater Iran strategic situation worse.
Barring a dramatic shift in the paradigm of international diplomacy regarding the conflict, the war seems set for an Iraqi victory. The question then is, when shall peace resume, and at what cost will Iran have to pay.
These are the rolls for the war. While it may seem like Iraq only has a slight advantage, this is following the previous roll where on the land war, Iraq rolled a 98 to 17 for Iran, so it's clear that Iraq is dominant. Magoose described it as "There is a strong condemnation of the chemical attacks by both sides, but Iraq has succeded in all its military and strategic objectives and are now on a defensive posture." This could have been achievable OTL had Iraq undertaken a dramatic reform in the strategy of its army from anti-insurgency to conventional warfare, which here was prompted by Romania. So far the deck is stacked in Iraq's favor and with Khomeini's first years of rule being a losing war against Sunni Iraq, it seems that the winds of change may soon come for Iran one way or another. Depending on how things go, the war could end in the next couple of years.
You know it would be funny if thanks to Iraq having major success in Iran that they start Project Babylon early. That project with the big Space Gun that was supposedly gonna be used to launch Iraqi Satellites.
@Kaiser Chris , that was, I hesitate to say exciting because the word doesn't quite fit for what could be a Wikipedia write up or a part of a textbook meant to be read by a teen more interested in the latest star wars than history, Engaging, possibly? Either way very Enjoyable out of universe. Thank you.
Having slept on my pitch, I've decided to scrap the IJ idea. Frankly I don't think my heart was completely in the changes I made, sometimes you shouldn't mess with stuff when you're running on little sleep. I'm gonna delete the post and instead do a pitch for the Michael Collins biopic
So now that 83's coming up anyone have any movies they want to distribute this year? I'm personally hoping to get Rock And Rule. It's a good movie that got it's release screwed over time and again and with more mature animation getting some spotlight it could make some change.
