Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Funny how most of my plans end up using them...
Dragon Ball: After the End
ElleonXan
Self-Proclaimed King of the Dumpster Fires
- Location
- USA
Okay... that was a thing. I'm kinda glad I wasn't able to jump in on this vote, as I want no part of that... whatever that was.
That being said, I really hope we don't get into a situation like this:
*Kakara Clone 2 turns into a giant monkey, enters melee range*
Kakara Clone 2's inner monologue: Okay, time to distract this big lizard while the Other Me charges the Super-Special-Awesome-Super-De-Duper-Mega-Chocolate-Fudge-Ripple-With-a-Cherry-On-Top Spirit Bomb to blow this lizard out of the universe.
*Dragon turns to the Kakara charging the attack out of range and smiles cheekily*
Dragon: "Interesting. Now tell me more about this 'Spirit Bomb' that you're going to use to destroy me."
Both Kakara clones: "Crapbaskets."
That being said, I really hope we don't get into a situation like this:
*Kakara Clone 2 turns into a giant monkey, enters melee range*
Kakara Clone 2's inner monologue: Okay, time to distract this big lizard while the Other Me charges the Super-Special-Awesome-Super-De-Duper-Mega-Chocolate-Fudge-Ripple-With-a-Cherry-On-Top Spirit Bomb to blow this lizard out of the universe.
*Dragon turns to the Kakara charging the attack out of range and smiles cheekily*
Dragon: "Interesting. Now tell me more about this 'Spirit Bomb' that you're going to use to destroy me."
Both Kakara clones: "Crapbaskets."
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
It usually is such, so I don't know that Oddball would really apply.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
The dragon can read minds from outside the planet. If it could get past our new defences to do so casually, we would have been fucked regardless of which plan won. Same for the sorcery interfering with our concentration since we are already inside of a giant ward made from the sorcerers so it wasn't worth mentioning.
I mean, if anything, the dragon detecting the sorcery is more likely to reveal our plan but he seemed to mostly ignore the current ward after he saw it and between him being in the middle of a fight and the larger ward already in place and this having the place saturated with sorcery, there should be little risk of him noticing.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Pretty much every reason the dragon has for noticing the sorcery also applied to the spirit bomb already, so it'll never be a bad thing. To be honest, I'm mostly hoping it'll conceal us for long enough that not only does he not try to attack us whilst we're vulnerable, he doesn't realise he's on a time limit and he needs to win this fight right now before we blow him into tiny little pieces.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Well, no, but we're already committed to the Spirit Bomb, so we can only hope for success - if we fail here, this was all fairly pointless, and it'l come down to the other 3.
Was what?
- Location
- Space~
[X] Feel the grass.
-[X] Have a Multiform in Golden Oozaru form distract the Dragon.
-[X] Ask the sorcerers if they can make it so the dragon can't sense us charging our attack.
-[X] Have a Multiform in Golden Oozaru form distract the Dragon.
-[X] Ask the sorcerers if they can make it so the dragon can't sense us charging our attack.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
A tense vote! We're going for trying not to let the other Royals die.
Oh, yes, I can see how not sitting back and watching badly injured daddy and grandma get literally eaten alive for no damn reason while trying to master inner peace would be a contentious suggestion. Thank heavens there was so much insightful and productive discussion about it.
That was absolutely everything wrong with quests distilled into a perfect storm of awful.
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AProcrastinator
You can Certainly Try
- Location
- Getting Somewhere
- Pronouns
- She/Hers
And this isn't helping.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Except we won, so it's a moot point. Best let it settle, eh?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah, but I'm mentally revising my priors and preferences AWAY from the line of reasoning "trying to optimize a plan is always a bad choice, you should just go for the simple curated votes." Especially when this results in a character consistently failing to use some of their most prominent abilities, like Kakara and multiform.
Though I do wish everyone had used the approval voting process in the first place, because in that case we'd probably have had a vote that came down to "do go DISTRACTION RAGEMONKEY clone, do not coordinate with the sorcerors," which I for one would consider an acceptable compromise.
Honestly, even if the Spirit Bomb failed as a result of the multiform, that's not a bad gambit. It gives Kakara "death insurance" in that if her combat form falls in battle she doesn't actually die. And it would still act to preserve and prolong the lives of the other three royals, who succeeded in hurting the dragon, which would give us time to come up with another gambit.
Worst case, it doesn't work and we fall back to Plan B: Golden Oozaru Kakara buys a few moments for the other royals to pop senzus and we resume the "Four Golden Oozaru beat the snot out of the dragon" plan.
The risk of us tripping on the frills, versus the risk of us tripping on the absence of the frills, strikes me as a good bet.
Though I do wish everyone had used the approval voting process in the first place, because in that case we'd probably have had a vote that came down to "do go DISTRACTION RAGEMONKEY clone, do not coordinate with the sorcerors," which I for one would consider an acceptable compromise.
Honestly, even if the Spirit Bomb failed as a result of the multiform, that's not a bad gambit. It gives Kakara "death insurance" in that if her combat form falls in battle she doesn't actually die. And it would still act to preserve and prolong the lives of the other three royals, who succeeded in hurting the dragon, which would give us time to come up with another gambit.
I'm pretty sure that Kakara's mind shield is good enough to prevent the dragon from casually reading her mind, because that was the point earlier of a whole mini-scene in which Kakara managed a jury-rigged mind shield on her first try.
Worst case, it doesn't work and we fall back to Plan B: Golden Oozaru Kakara buys a few moments for the other royals to pop senzus and we resume the "Four Golden Oozaru beat the snot out of the dragon" plan.
- Location
- Austria
They are not kids, they can handle themselves.
I think not trusting adults to do their duty would hurt them, in a way, more than dying to give us time. They are sayans, and royal ones, driven by both duty and pride.
Just telling them that we did not trust them to not die while we were puttering around with the Spirit Bomb, given that we are a kid, would be a hell of an insult I imagine: both via telling them we are of such a low opinion about their skills and because we presume that they are so pathetic as to care, even for a moment, more about death than about winning the battle of extinction.
I mean, Yammar would likely think real hard about punching us if we were to tell him such a thing. If he is a true Vegeta...
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
That is explicitly against WOG, which has stated that the Exiles have absolutely no problem calling for help/relying on others in a crisis, due to the whole way that exact thing let the Enemy slowly steamroll the Z-fighters more or less one by one - they'd consider the attitude you espouse to be prideful stupidity of the highest order, which it is.
Like, you're literally arguing it would be better to sit tight and let them fight alone whilst they're getting torn apart and are in dire straits. They might have bought that we wanted to focus on the Spirit Bomb (unless they know how Multiform works) but if we told them THAT was why we were hanging back we'd be considered a moron, derelict in duty and probably a coward.
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- Location
- Austria
Well kinda sorta?
If we said "I am not sure Multiform will not fuck up Spirit Bomb because ~spirits~" they'd respect it and try to buy us time I imagine.
And seeing as this was the main motivation behind no-write-in version, well.
I mean yes, arguing that we left them there to fight it out because we were not sure about their reaction would be a dick move, but that's not it.
What I am talking about is that us not being sure whether Multiform mucks with Spirit Bomb (literally unknown territory in every possible respect here) and yet sending them help would send a clear message of "Kakara thinks you all are so inept you are liable to die while she charges wunderwaffe so this kid will save you and then kill the dragon because she cannot trust any of you morons to not die without her help".
Which is insulting.
And the fact it may well be true is, uh. A thing I guess.
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AProcrastinator
You can Certainly Try
- Location
- Getting Somewhere
- Pronouns
- She/Hers
So we shouldn't do everything we can to be as maximully-effective as possible in a combat wherein our entire planet is on the line
Because doing so might possibly hurt somebody's feelings
I voted to swallow our pride and ask Dandeer's help for a Garenhuld-sized reason; we don't have time or space for personal preferences. Maybe if this were a friendly spar, you might have some salient points, but ...
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- Location
- Austria
Whether it's maximally effective is an open question, that's the core of the problem.
Spirit Bomb is a territory uncharted enough you can argue that not touching any moving part, including Multiform, is the most efficient path and us stepping aside from it in order to bail the others out is the problem.
Like, the thing is, when you are doing a new thing which was only done by a select few, you try to reduce the amount of differences in any possible way unless you are 100% sure it won't affect things (and you generally don't have 100% certainty in such matters tbh). I don't think Spirit Bomb was ever used while Multiform of user was active, so...yeah. No reason to be sure about any interpretation, so us erring on the side of changing the variables in order to ensure their survival is certainly a thing.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I think that sending the message "I think this dude threatening to destroy the planet is a serious threat and I intend to contribute to the fight by not letting you all die after you covered me while I was down" is perfectly reasonable, and that we think hedging our bets a little to either help distract it while charging or at least getting them stable to cover us while we charge it is also completely reasonable. I think if we said that we were sufficiently unsure about the Spirit Bomb and Multiform (which, again, is complete speculation and unsupported by the text) and we thought that getting it charged up faster was better than stabilising them before doing so - which I heavily disagree with, but is possible - they'd take our word for it. I think they'l also be fine with us going the other way, and I will be extraordinarily surprised if anyone thought even the slightest bit less of us for making that choice.
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AProcrastinator
You can Certainly Try
- Location
- Getting Somewhere
- Pronouns
- She/Hers
Wait wait wait wait wait - my fault too, but why are we debating this? Vote's cast, deed's done; let's wait and see what happens.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
It was a new line of incorrect understanding of the facts, and quest discussion does affect updates, so I'm much less willing to let things lie if they haven't been answered at least once.
Ironically, it probably wouldn't have been an issue if it had never been added to the stock vote. Kakara the character is smart enough to do something that obvious on her own initiative and it was only it being made an explicit vote option which turned voting for the stock option into an implicit condemnation of it.
Assisting them is her job. Her royal duty. She had no right to say, "Hey, there's absolutely no reason why I couldn't be in there fighting with you while I'm working on the spirit bomb at the same time, but I'm going to just sit this one out and watch you die because lol."
If we're going to do that and don't care about the results, why bother fighting as a team at all? Just have the royals line up and fight the dragon one by one like the mooks in a bad kung fu movie. Much more sporting.
Only because they don't know the full context of Kakara having absolutely zero indication that multiforming interferes with the spirit bomb, and strong evidence against, which would mean that she was shirking her duty over not only paranoid, but outright delusional speculation.