Voting is open
The Warnings:
  1. The alien mechanism is a perversion of the true path.
  2. The soul is the conscience of sentience.
  3. A soul can be bestowed only by the Omnissiah.
  4. The Soulless sentience is the enemy of all.
  5. The knowledge of the ancients stands beyond question.
  6. The Void Dragon guards the knowledge of the ancients.
  7. Flesh is fallible, but ritual honors the Void Dragon.
  8. To break with ritual is to break with faith.




And also suggests a supernatural influence. One that the Exiles and Maya seem immune to. And I can identify two possibilities for that:
1) It only affects those below a certain level of power. If this is the case, then we can probably expect to see a rise in the number unaffected as Ki spreads.
2) The Exiles with their Saiyan physiology and Maya with her mutation are significantly different enough they don't trigger the effect.

Also, this line freaks me out:

Seriously, holy fuck. Literally illegal to be non-conformist.

Based on the descriptions, it may develop with age, with the youth mostly kept in line by their far more socially powerful elders until full manifestation. Maya was exceptional in that she got a first-hand look into the unknown at a very young age and had grown up knowing for a fact the whole time that her people are missing something big due to their attitude. That may prevent the manifestation.



Or a trauma so bad it crippled the racial collective. Seriously, I'd be interested in seeing Kakara doing a Pastsight on what caused the Garenhulder phobia of the Unknown, after reading this.

Considering that their flinch response seems to be focused on keeping the Unknown unknown, that might be something to be really cautious about. The way this sort of thing gets bred into a population is by the people who discover and even think the bad meme getting weeded out.

Alternatively: parasites.
 
Last edited:
Far less so, actually! Granted, the progress of democracy was the only thing Exiles straight-up failed to introduce to Garenhuld on first effort. It went like this:

Exile Idealist: *extended spiel on the merits of self-government*

Local Peasantry: Sounds appealing.

Obviously Self-Interested Aristocrat: Oh dear, that sounds an awful lot like an- (clears throat) INVENTION to me.

Local Peasantry: (horrified gasps)

Their second effort, they sold it as an ancient tradition of (insert a country too far distant for the listeners to confirm) wiped out by evil aristocrats.

To be fair, it's not exactly the best system on paper. We know that it works, but... well, the current self-governance systems we have in place only work as well as they do because we had previous, collapsed attempts to learn from, and I'm not entirely convinced that our current ones won't end up as yet more such. Democratic/representative governance as we know it is very much a work in progress.
 
Also: is the identical nature of Garenhuld and Earth just a convenience to save PITA date accounting for the GM, or should we be taking notice of the astounding coincidence?
 
Also: is the identical nature of Garenhuld and Earth just a convenience to save PITA date accounting for the GM, or should we be taking notice of the astounding coincidence?

See: Saiyans
See: Recoome's race
See: All the other races that look astonishingly similar (and are likely... compatible, if Saiyans are anything to go by) despite supposedly being entirely different alien races

The Kais are Lazy as Fuck(at least in universes 6 and 7).
 
Last edited:
To be fair, it's not exactly the best system on paper. We know that it works, but... well, the current self-governance systems we have in place only work as well as they do because we had previous, collapsed attempts to learn from, and I'm not entirely convinced that our current ones won't end up as yet more such. Democratic/representative governance as we know it is very much a work in progress.

I believe it was Mark Twain who said, "Democracy is the worst form of government known, except for all the others."
 
See: Saiyans
See: Recoome's race
See: All the other races that look astonishingly similar (and are likely... compatible, if Saiyans are anything to go by) despite supposedly being entirely different alien races

The Kais are Lazy as Fuck(at least in universes 6 and 7).

I was referring to the fact that the two planets have exactly the same orbital and rotational periods.
 
Why would they try to introduce it when the exiles don't practice it?
This particular one tried to introduce it because the Exiles didn't practice it.
@PoptartProdigy in light of this, what's the current public opinion of nobility and royalty in the general public?
Depends on which public you ask.
Also: is the identical nature of Garenhuld and Earth just a convenience to save PITA date accounting for the GM, or should we be taking notice of the astounding coincidence?
Now, you don't think I'll answer that now that you've raised the possibility, do you? ;)
 
*Sighs*
Great. Like we didn't already had enough stuff to rampantly speculate over and drive votes that prioritize ruthless pragmatism and amoral action over principle and ideals. :(:confused::rolleyes::cry::(
 
This particular one tried to introduce it because the Exiles didn't practice it.

Depends on which public you ask.

Now, you don't think I'll answer that now that you've raised the possibility, do you? ;)

In all seriousness, it's fair to tell the players if it's just an OOC convenience, simply because it's unfair to leave us screaming at the immense IC implications of it not being.
 
Last edited:
You shake off the momentary chill that just afflicted you and go back to planning the Count's summer retreat. It's just The House, of course, but the Count wants it on a hill! It'll be a few year's work figuring that out; the rest of the village is all on flat ground! The Count is generous, though; he gave you ten. You'll have plenty of time to figure out where to dig out a flat patch of ground without breaking your back doing it.
To be fair, unless I'm mistaken, this is usually how we build substantial buildings on slopes in real life? Dig out a flat foundation surface, then build on it. For buildings with basements, we even excavate to get a flat foundation surface...


You are Kakarot Roma, and you are about to make your fortune.

The Duke squints suspiciously at the arquebus, clearly doubting its structural integrity. "And you say that this...works, Karl?"

"Perfectly, milord," you say, nodding. "As you can see, the force it projects-"

"Looks pretty unstable," says the Duke with all the confidence of a man who's never held a hammer in his life. "You say this spits fire?"

Smile, smile. "It only looks that way, sire," you say. "What it spits is a small metal ball, at high speeds-"

"And a ball can outperform an arrow?" sneers one of the Duke's courtiers, to general polite laughter. They all give the musket nervous glances, though.

"If it's travelling quickly enough, yes," you say, smiling.

"I'll be honest with you, Karl, I don't trust this," says the Duke. "Perhaps they do things differently in -- ah, Kreisholt, you said? -- but here we don't tend to put much faith in...inventions."

At that, the assemblage shudders, to a general murmur of agreement.

And at that, you play your trump. "Oh, this is no inventions, sir," you say, laying a hand on the arquebus. "No, this is a family possession -- been with us for centuries!"

Silence.

"Would you like to see Great- Great- Great- Grandfather's notes?" you ask, picking up the sheaf of papers you most certainly did not forge last night.

The Duke looks at the notes. He looks up. "Centuries?"

"At least two, although records get a little sloppy before then," you say.

The Duke looks at the papers again. "...perhaps a demonstration of this family heirloom would be in order? While you explain how it is meant to work?"

You smile.
Mitsuba:

"WHY OH WHY DID HE FORGET TO ADD IN A FLINTLOCK AND RIFLING!?"

239 GE

Garenhuld

You sprint away from the musket and dive behind the earthworks, panting heavily. Your friend pats you down. "Alright?"

"I'm fine," you pant.

"It didn't get you?"

"Nah," you say. "You ready?"

"No. But we don't have a choice."

You two of you slowly peek out from behind the earthworks, looking at the musket where it stands. It shifts slightly in the wind. The two of you panic and hit the deck.

Nothing happens, but it takes a few minutes before you muster the courage to sit back up.

Before you can lose your courage again, you pick up the string attached to the trigger and yank. At the bang, the two of you descend into panicked shivering once more. It's a long time before you look back out.

Your friend blinks. "It...it worked?"

"Once," you say, looking at the musket with even more suspicion. "It worked once."

"We don't have time for a proper ten-year testing cycle," says your friend. "Aramaian troops are getting closer to the capital every day!"

"We have time to test it at least a few more times," you say. "I'm not putting something-" Unknown "-untested in the hands of boys young enough to be our sons." You shiver in the grip of a sudden chill. "Did you feel the wind turning?"

"Little bit," says your friend, also shivering. Then he sighs. "Alright, fine. Matchlock ignition mechanism, test two. I'll go reload."
[blinks]

Wait, what was the previous system of triggering muskets?


270 GE

You're not sure where that unusually energetic man who built the railroad through your town got the idea for it. He claims that it's the result of a seventy-year project, and you hear that he has papers saying as much.

You don't much care. The trains have been running without fault or failure for twenty years, now (in fact, the owner's been a damn fanatic about keeping the rails clear and in perfect condition). That's enough for you.

After all...who really wants to live away from the city? After all, the countryside is butting right up against the Unknown is poorly settled and far from many things cities have to offer. Nowhere is more Known than a city Cities are replete with the comforts of civilization. Honestly, you only ever lived in your village because it was impossible to live closer to a city and still get to the fields each morning. With this train, though, you could start your day miles from your fields, and go home to a place filled with other people in the morning.

In a week, the home that your family has owned for seven generations is empty, and you're only ever near it when you come to work your fields.
Now see, that's pretty much how I imagined that working.

300 GE

Garenhuld

In secret, a group of saiyans meet. In secret, they draft out plans. In secret, they toast each other's success.

In secret, a thousand superhuman laborers travel out into the untracked wilderness of Garenhuld, where no humans dare to live, and begin building the infrastructure for a postindustrial economy until it's ready to present, pre-completed.

* * *​

301 GE

Garenhuld


SECRET RESEARCH GROUP REVEALS FINDINGS

AN ADVANCEMENT CENTURIES IN THE MAKING

TECHNOLOGIES OLDER THAN STEAM UNVEILED

SPOKESPERSON CLAIMS, "A GRAND LEAP TO FIRMER GROUND!"

GROUP TO ADDRESS ARAMAIAN SENATE TOMORROW
...I begin to sense a deliberate conspiracy to first get all the Garenhulder peasants out of the countryside, then build factories until they could be presented with a fait accompli. Looking at the calendar, it sounds like this must have been going on back when Yammar was Lord. And you know? If he in any way helped to make this happen, I can't hate him as much anymore. Just can't. My head hurts too much from watching Garenhulders think.

Of course, if so, presumably Apra was involved too, but we already love her anyway. :)


312 GE

Garenhuld

You are Bruce Marsden, and you are a mechanic.

You have a book in your workstation, filled with entries on every make and model of car on the market. When a car comes in with a problem, you take it from the (invariably nervous) owner, crack open your manual, and begin inspecting the car. You find the problem. Whatever part is broken, you remove, and then you order a new one. You install it as directed in the manual. When the car is back to factory standards, you return the car. If you change the car from factory standard in any way, the owner can sue you for malpractice.

(If you find anything in the car that's not broken, but is nonstandard, you have a hazardous waste disposal bin in back, right next to the phone so that you can call the police.)

Every time, you roll your eyes. Garenhulders. So afraid of the unknown.
See, I can buy this, but if so, someone must have designed the car, and that someone was definitely a saiyan. And unless another saiyan designed the truck, and the tank, and the ambulance, and the ice cream van, and so on, none of those things would actually exist.

Which means I'm having to mentally retcon a lot of important stuff about Garenhulder technology, which exists yet cannot exist given the size of the technical base (namely, all technologically literate saiyans and no one else) responsible for developing it.

313 GE

Garenhuld

You're an engineer.

Your job is, broadly, to apply existing technology. Sometimes you're hired by manufacturing plants, in which case your job is to plan the workspace and determine how everything should work together. Sometimes you're hired by people who want to build a bridge, and you are responsible for the (insanely dangerous) work of making the small tweaks to the standard bridge design that make it fit with its new location.

You do not design things. You do not change the fundamental design of things. Yes, you alter standard designs to suit circumstances, but standards are standards for a reason (what that reason is, you couldn't rightly say -- but then, nobody thinks too hard on things related to the Unknown). You wouldn't dare change a thing.
This is how bridge design works on Garenhuld?

Small bridges can be standardized, but large bridges pretty much have to be tailored to their location. If their designers don't think in terms of "design from scratch according to underlying principles..." Well. Let's just say the Garenhulders must have a loooooot of ferries.

Actually, I'm surprised anyone built a ferryboat the Garenhulders were willing to believe could carry cars and trucks and railroad cars.

Maybe they just don't cross rivers with large vehicles?

314 GE

Garenhuld


You stand carefully, being careful not to look like you're asserting yourself; the men to whom you're speaking wouldn't appreciate assertion.

They stare back at you with a skeptical air, but you can tell that you've won them over.

At last, the chairman of the board lets out a sigh. "Very well, Mister Davis, the board agrees with your findings. While a mere five-year testing cycle makes us uncomfortable, your studies have displayed nothing but the most exacting standards of research. In conjunction with your previous project designing the Teris II, we are prepared to accept your assertion that sufficient evidence on the mechanical shortcomings in the Teris II has been gathered to justify a rebuild. Furthermore, your various failure analyses have proven to our satisfaction that the 14C bolt in the engine assembly is the part that, upon review, wears out the fastest even accounting for statistical error. Combined with your cogent, if impolitic, analysis of the public relations meltdown regarding the failure rates in the Teris II, and the warnings which -- as you pointed out -- you presented along with the original Teris II regarding the various reliability issues, the board is willing to authorize a project to replace the 14C bolt with a more reliable version."

You bow your head. "Thank you, sirs. My team will commence our work immediately."

(The work is already done, has been for years, you've just been proving to these idiots' satisfaction that it was necessary all along, and now you'll need to waste more time waiting until you can present your findings in a plausible amount of time-)

The chairman nods, and the board shuffles out of the room.

Later than night, poring over the blueprints for the Teris II, having already made the changes and prepared the recommendations for an improved 14C bolt, you stare down at the paper. Slowly, daringly, you reach up, erase a few lines, and make a second change -- this one regarding the suspension, which is unsteady over less level ground. You know it's an issue. You know you can fix it. You know how.

You look around. You make sure you're alone. And then -- quietly, so quietly it barely reaches your own ears -- you whisper, "How's that for the Unknown?" You shiver at it and imagine, briefly, a world where you could make this second change.

And then you go back and put it back the way it already was. You were authorized to make one specific change, and it's a change you've just made. This is as much as a curious man can do, on Garenhuld, and Garenhuld is very good at crushing anything further.

You are a researcher. And this is what your job title means, on Garenhuld.
Again, I accept this, but now I'm gonna have to go back and mentally retcon out all references to technologies that logically cannot exist given the size of the technologically competent base of people fit to develop them.

Unless this firm is hiring many many thousands of people to do this in parallel, and knows it needs to, which it doesn't sound like they do. It sounds like they're in hard denial about it.
 
Last edited:
Considering that after all this time the Exiles had not created any new techniques until Jaffur, merely recreated lost ones, we can't really say that their immune to it even if they don't lash out at actual innovation.
To be fair, a lot of those techniques were pretty badass, and recreating them was arguably a smarter course of action than trying to invent totally different ways of achieving the same thing.

For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the techniques ARE different, and the Garenhulder users just don't know the difference.

See: Saiyans
See: Recoome's race
See: All the other races that look astonishingly similar (and are likely... compatible, if Saiyans are anything to go by) despite supposedly being entirely different alien races

The Kais are Lazy as Fuck(at least in universes 6 and 7).
I don't think that was Lailo's point. I think it was more about "wow, this planet happens to have exactly the same day length and year length as Earth!"

The kais are lazy as fuck and copy-paste humans all over the place, but here they seem to have copy-pasted humans onto a planet that was already exactly like Earth. For some reason.

In all seriousness, it's fair to tell the players if it's just an OOC convenience, simply because it's unfair to leave us screaming at the immense IC implications of it not being.
Yeah, we're likely to waste a LOT of time otherwise. And it's going to cause a lot of problems.

...Well, in that case, I'm not entirely sure it was worth the bother for them to do all that experimenting in the first place.

That being said, I can totally imagine that resulting in confirmation bias, because every time a super-laborious process of testing fails, they take it as evidence they need to waste more time on testing the next idea, NOT as evidence that they're so inefficient they'll never get anything done this way.

The problem isn't that I can't imagine a culture working this way. It's that I can't imagine a culture working this way and being able to do the technological equivalent of wiping its own butt without helpful aliens telling them how to do literally everything. Not just "almost everything," not just "we introduce the key technology and you take it from here," literally everything.
 
To be fair, a lot of those techniques were pretty badass, and recreating them was arguably a smarter course of action than trying to invent totally different ways of achieving the same thing.

For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the techniques ARE different, and the Garenhulder users just don't know the difference.

I don't think that was Lailo's point. I think it was more about "wow, this planet happens to have exactly the same day length and year length as Earth!"

The kais are lazy as fuck and copy-paste humans all over the place, but here they seem to have copy-pasted humans onto a planet that was already exactly like Earth. For some reason.

Yeah, we're likely to waste a LOT of time otherwise. And it's going to cause a lot of problems.

...Well, in that case, I'm not entirely sure it was worth the bother for them to do all that experimenting in the first place.

That being said, I can totally imagine that resulting in confirmation bias, because every time a super-laborious process of testing fails, they take it as evidence they need to waste more time on testing the next idea, NOT as evidence that they're so inefficient they'll never get anything done this way.

The problem isn't that I can't imagine a culture working this way. It's that I can't imagine a culture working this way and being able to do the technological equivalent of wiping its own butt without helpful aliens telling them how to do literally everything. Not just "almost everything," not just "we introduce the key technology and you take it from here," literally everything.
At this point, the 'there is a totally unrelated group of aliens who can innovate' theory seem more and more like the only one that makes sense.
Even with that though, that does imply a really large 'engineer' class that does have to solve these problems, though I imagine that due to the fact that there don't seem to be competing standards for anything, it might be less than one might expect.
Alternatively and/or augumentatively, this is only most garenhulders. We saw the dude fantasizing about making adjustments, and we saw and got heavily implied that Garenhulder uplifting was accomplished by going 'Yeah, this is totally a centuries old invention', there seem to be little that prevents immune garenhulders from creating shadowy conspiracies of normal engineers who do almost exactly what the garenhulders did, making it seem like there inventions have been around forever.
 
See, that works pretty well if you're just trying to talk about 'oh yeah, there's this isolated island where people have had steamboats forever.'

It works less well if you're trying to convince someone that hypersonic ramjet missiles have existed for centuries.

Unless of course the Garenhulders are, in addition to being super Unknown-phobic, are also super gullible.
 
I don't usually comment here, so let me raise a point that the latest infodump makes more pressing:
Where did the ballistic missile come from?

If the Garenhulders are under some sort of geas about innovating, you expect their munitions to be pretty standard.
A ballistic missile would have been a hell of a big deal, and a departure from the airbreathing delivery vehicles they employed for WMD delivery.
Yet they managed to test and deploy at least one nuke-armed ballistic missile in addition to their hypersonic cruise missiles.
And we know from RL that ballistic missile testing and production is pretty conspicuous.

Yet the Saiyans(or at least the main faction) missed it completely.
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Either there's some other Saiyan faction acting covertly, or some other agent is about.

We know sorcery is capable of mind effects.
This geas thing sounds like some really big sorcery effect, possibly keyed to ki level.
And I wouldn't assume that Saiyans are immune; it might just have a more subtle effect.


Wild Ass Guess
Garenhold is someone's farm or nature preserve.
And the geas is a security blanket to keep the livestock from getting too restive, or killing each other off during the farmer's absence.
The complete lack of ki users in the native population, despite their capability for it, is also suggestive.
 
Considering that after all this time the Exiles had not created any new techniques until Jaffur, merely recreated lost ones, we can't really say that their immune to it even if they don't lash out at actual innovation.

While a good point, it does run into the question of "why build a better mousetrap?"

Admittedly, the issue is more complex than with mousetraps, but the general idea is the same. They already have a massive library of techniques that cover their needs, so why bother making one on your own. The lack of new techniques is more indicative of a lack of



See, that works pretty well if you're just trying to talk about 'oh yeah, there's this isolated island where people have had steamboats forever.'

It works less well if you're trying to convince someone that hypersonic ramjet missiles have existed for centuries.

Unless of course the Garenhulders are, in addition to being super Unknown-phobic, are also super gullible.

They might fall for "It's a centuries old technology, just made bigger!" Ignoring the fact that it's not quite that simple, I could totally believe that the people in charge of giving the go ahead for these things don't understand that.

There's also the option of "tools of an ancient civilization that eventually destroyed itself because of innovating." You have to thread a bit of a needle here to make them accept whatever you bring as not being one of the dangerous innovations, but you can totally get away with a this repeatedly. After all, who wants to go into the Unknown to confirm the Known?
 
See, that works pretty well if you're just trying to talk about 'oh yeah, there's this isolated island where people have had steamboats forever.'

It works less well if you're trying to convince someone that hypersonic ramjet missiles have existed for centuries.

Unless of course the Garenhulders are, in addition to being super Unknown-phobic, are also super gullible.
Super guillibility has neither been proven, nor disproven.
I imagine that another way that garenhulders managed this was that the Exiles introduced 'solving things with formulas' early and agressively.
For any repetitive task like the bridge thing, they probably have a computer program that automatically does most of the work to a huge extent.
Also, considering the Senzu clan's mind effecting wards, I would seem that there is the possibility that things like that were introduced with the aid of massive Exile works of sorcery.
 
Okay, now, if you posit that the helpful aliens are going around constantly using some weird sorcery-based variation on the neuralyzers from Men in Black, mind-controlling people to believe that a new invention is in fact a time-tested one, bypassing the process of demanding documentation...

THEN maybe you could conceivably get post-1930s technology in a setting like this.
 
In all seriousness, it's fair to tell the players if it's just an OOC convenience, simply because it's unfair to leave us screaming at the immense IC implications of it not being.
The issue with questions like this is that Kakara doesn't know, and I know y'all metagame.
Is Sucal right that it was a Balor? Or was it one of the other groups that formed the Republic?
One of the other groups, although the Balors didn't tell them no.
To be fair, unless I'm mistaken, this is usually how we build substantial buildings on slopes in real life? Dig out a flat foundation surface, then build on it. For buildings with basements, we even excavate to get a flat foundation surface...
Hill engineering also often involves supports on the downslope side so you don't have to dig out the whole total area of the house, or else working with the foundations to add in a basement/first floor. The House, however, has all of its dimensions predetermined, so he can't work with the foundation or add supports. So, dig out the hill until he has not only the whole area of the house, but a large enough flat area that it's not prone to landslides.
[blinks]

Wait, what was the previous system of triggering muskets?
Like in real life, sticking a match into the breech. Manually.
Again, I accept this, but now I'm gonna have to go back and mentally retcon out all references to technologies that logically cannot exist given the size of the technologically competent base of people fit to develop them.

Unless this firm is hiring many many thousands of people to do this in parallel, and knows it needs to, which it doesn't sound like they do. It sounds like they're in hard denial about it.
Garenhulders aren't stupid.

They are slow to innovate, but they are incredibly quick to adapt. In a world where the only advances come from finding things, somebody who finds something has suddenly received a jump of decades or centuries against which everybody else will flounder. While Garenhulders refuse to innovate, that has instead given rise to an incredible ability to adapt new technologies once they are proven to be not Unknown reliable.

*shivers for some reason they refuse to acknowledge*

After all, if the guy next door just got the industrial revolution dumped on him, you and everybody else has two choices: invent (no), or adapt the existing tech. And get really good at integrating new advances. While simultaneously being terrified of them.

There's a lot of existential fiction on Garenhuld.
 
I compared the Garenhulders to "The Race" earlier, and now I see the problem is much, much worse than even them.
 
Voting is open
Back
Top