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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Bakkasama said:
Especially if the great ape multiform trick comes out. Make multiform, make ape, share PL. Depending on how stable the body is, it might be better than kaioken. Not for the ape form but the humanoid one.

Saiyn with PL of 2M, trained ape form comes to 20M. Share it with ape? 22M with 11M speed and 33M Strenght? Meh. Share it with human? Saiyan with 22 M PL all around. If he doesn't explode, it is like a kaioken times 11 in base form (granted, it is like a kaioken times 11 if he explodes too).

It is admitedly less impressive the closer you are to cap (until you realize the higher absolute PL raised, the higher the strain) but it is a poor man's kaioken.

On the other hand, a FPSS that uses this trick is as strong as a newly transformed SS2, which is not as impressive if you give the power to the great ape form though a whole different matter if you give it to the untransformed clone (whether it explodes or not)
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This is kind of similar to the hypothetical "combine the two base forms" Research project that might unlock GT's SSJ4 body as a new base form.

Someone remind me, when we're investigating Research ideas, do we need separate actions for each different idea, or can we just spend an action going through our list to see which ones have potential? I know we needed a whole action to investigate Saiyan masques but that was because we needed to check lots of ideas about them to see what stuck.
 
I feel like I should remind people that these are the midterm rounds. You are deciding whether or not to stay for the last match of the day. There will be more.
fictionfan said:
So no unknown qualities and therefor boring. The decision for wether they are in or not has likely already been made.

Who else has made the short list?
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Honestly, not many. There are only a few fights happening where you immediately see the fight and say, "We want that person." You're mostly holding off until the end to compile your thoughts.
Cariyaga said:
My question is why Kakara hasn't taught Multiform to everyone. Does Fren know it? How about Jaffur? (although that could lead to weird things...)
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Because you need to take an action to teach somebody in order to invest that kind of time. Maya and the Misfits, for instance, should you continue to invest actions there, will eventually learn.
KnightDisciple said:
I guess I tend to give NPCs the benefit of the doubt, so I'm operating with the idea that MF isn't some perfect solution for everyone. I refuse to believe @PoptartProdigy is writing a story where only the PC isn't a complete moron, and so there are reasonable, understandable reasons and thoughts for why not everyone knows it.
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Cariyaga said:
I imagine it's a matter of it being a relatively-rare technique with few people competent enough to teach it.
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Honestly? It's not fashionable. Bear in mind that Exile society is incredibly martially-inclined, and multiform was proved, "worthless," centuries ago. Some people use it for the time benefits, but often people just want to do other things.
Deathbybunnies said:
@PoptartProdigy if we stay, will we still be commentating? It would be kind of odd to drop out for the very last match.
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You bowed gracefully out of the press box in order to be with your family.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Honestly? It's not fashionable. Bear in mind that Exile society is incredibly martially-inclined, and multiform was proved, "worthless," centuries ago. Some people use it for the time benefits, but often people just want to do other things.
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I hope that we can find at least some useful non-combat tricks over the course of our blog.
 
We resolved to watch the matches. We do not want to be seen as flighty, let alone actually act like that.

Sometimes, you have to deal with boring things. Best to learn that now.
 
[X] Yes.
-[X] You've been meaning to speak with Meerak. He's still in the cells, although he and the scouts who first stood down get to stay in the nicer ones.

It's not the final match so leaving isn't weird, and we haven't promised anyone anything so we aren't being flaky. Being bored to follow commitments is one thing, but being bored for no real reason beyond literally practising being bored is dumb.

Besides, last time this came up (paying attention to the sermon in the cult) we took the "being bored" option and literally regretted it in-character.

EDIT: Spolling
 
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[X] Yes.
-[X] You've been meaning to speak with Meerak. He's still in the cells, although he and the scouts who first stood down get to stay in the nicer ones.
 
[X] Yes.
-[X] You've been meaning to speak with Meerak. He's still in the cells, although he and the scouts who first stood down get to stay in the nicer ones.
 
[X] Yes.
-[X] You've been meaning to speak with Meerak. He's still in the cells, although he and the scouts who first stood down get to stay in the nicer ones.
 
[X] Yes.
-[X] You've been meaning to speak with Meerak. He's still in the cells, although he and the scouts who first stood down get to stay in the nicer ones.
 
[X] Yes.
-[X] You've been meaning to speak with Meerak. He's still in the cells, although he and the scouts who first stood down get to stay in the nicer ones.
 
[x] ...no. You're being good. You'll watch the last fight.

PoptartProdigy said:
Honestly? It's not fashionable. Bear in mind that Exile society is incredibly martially-inclined, and multiform was proved, "worthless," centuries ago. Some people use it for the time benefits, but often people just want to do other things.
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I also imagine there's issues in terms of eg breach of masquerade barring certain applications; no, you don't get to man the counter at your hardware store and go on a grocery run in the human world, what if someone notices you being in two places at once?
 
Terrabrand said:
[x] ...no. You're being good. You'll watch the last fight.



I also imagine there's issues in terms of eg breach of masquerade barring certain applications; no, you don't get to man the counter at your hardware store and go on a grocery run in the human world, what if someone notices you being in two places at once?
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Twins they were!

This is why the saiyans in charge of fixing breaches in the masquerade work part time writing soap operas.
 
Basically: Multiform isn't that good; it splits your power between all clones, so it's only really useful when fighting lots of weak enemies... that you can usually clear pretty well without splitting up.
It's only real uses are out of combat, like how we've been using it. And most people don't really care enough about time usage to bother learning a technique to be in multiple places at once just for that.

We've been needing it, so it was a good investment for us and our social wizardry, though.

Of course, there are some niche combat situations where it is incredibly useful, but those are exceptions, not the norm.
 
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[X] Yes.
-[X] You've been meaning to speak with Meerak. He's still in the cells, although he and the scouts who first stood down get to stay in the nicer ones.
 
So, I was thinking about how our energy and our energy under masque feels different because they are biologically different bodies and a question came to mind. Would our great ape form feel different than our great ape form under saiyan masque? That form is a different body that takes its energy from the same well as ss, isn't it? It could, in theory, be possible that the difference is only in its cap because of what the base's form PL is so training in great ape under masque might translate to normal great ape and help with GO endurance training that Jaffur speculated about.

(a bit of a shame that we are pretty sure we can't unlock new transformations under masque, otherwise a saiyan masque would let someone break into ss2 without blowing up the wards)
 
Okibruez said:
It's only real uses are out of combat, like how we've been using it. And most people don't really care enough about time usage to bother learning a technique to be in multiple places at once just for that.
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If this is true, most people are idiots, which I don't THINK is the case.

It's not about being in multiple places at once, it's about being able to study and spend time with your family, or play with your dog at the same time as you cook dinner. It's incredibly useful, and gives people more 'years' of life.
 
Cariyaga said:
If this is true, most people are idiots, which I don't THINK is the case.

It's not about being in multiple places at once, it's about being able to study and spend time with your family, or play with your dog at the same time as you cook dinner. It's incredibly useful, and gives people more 'years' of life.
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Well living healthy does that too and yet many people are not.
 
fictionfan said:
Well living healthy does that too and yet many people are not.
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"Spend a few (dozen) hours to learn how to do something, and then gradually train it over the course of the rest of your life while being able to do more of the things you love" is very different from "Change your lifestyle and spend hours a week exercising".

Even if it took 200 hours to learn to the point where one could learn-through-use at ~1 clone of ~1 hour per day, that would refund itself in less than a year!
 
Cariyaga said:
"Spend a few (dozen) hours to learn how to do something, and then gradually train it over the course of the rest of your life while being able to do more of the things you love" is very different from "Change your lifestyle and spend hours a week exercising".

Even if it took 200 hours to learn to the point where one could learn-through-use at ~1 clone of ~1 hour per day, that would refund itself in less than a year!
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WOG says it's not very fashionable. For an example in reverse, consider how many people choose to take up smoking.
 
[x] ...no. You're being good. You'll watch the last fight.

Dammit, we can focus!

Maybe we can just look over Mato's shoulder at that research?
 
Aren't there saiyans that choose to live outside garenhuld society because they don't like wearing masques? Do those saiyan use masques anyway so that they don't sleep? I mean, there were people living in the hall and when we were there in the prologue, things mostly stopped for the night.

On the other hand... saiyans gave me the impression that they have a lot of free time? Unless they have different jobs as masqued humans and as saiyans. The heads of clan technically do and so does Papata, and the guards... actually, if you are using multiform on a daily life, doesn't it make more sense to have all your clones working different Jobs to earn more money in the same amount of time so that you have a greater acquisitive power to use in your free time? Are they actually that good to use on free time rather tan work? They are good to work on several things at the same time or to interact with a lot of people but the purpose of free time is to spend it well and have fun and with multiform you have to find like 3 things to entertain yourself with instead of one. So they are better to get more work done to have a better free time later (or more non mf time) than to have more free time by having multiple copies. I mean, I wouldn't use it for hobbies because I would grow bored of them sooner. Which means that MF is better used to have more time to work or learn and that is useful if you a) wasted time because you didn't want to do them before (which you would still don't want to do even if you used mf unless you didn't want to because there was a limited opportunity you wanted to take rather tan because you would rather do something else since you would still experience the tedium) or b) are like Kakara in which she wants to do all the things now. Which is not THAT common.

Anyways, changing subject. If the energy for genki dama comes from ourselves, why did it tire and almost kill the people from earth (at Veget'as insistence they give more energy and stopped because of King Kai's warning against it) against kid buu?
 
Multiform users can't sustain unlimited duration or operate the clones at unlimited distances from each other, as I recall. It might not be very practical to use your multiform clones to hold down multiple jobs.

Ultimately, it's worth bearing in mind that for all its flaws, Multiform is a combat technique, and I'm not sure it can be arbitrarily adapted as a 'utility spell' to an unlimited degree. Notice how it only gives Kakara +1 AP per level of Multiform, and that represents BOTH gaining a clone AND presumably being able to use the power for longer. Given how many actions Kakara has, +1 AP is probably equivalent to no more than an hour or two of her time per day... which is suggestive when it comes to estimating just how much time a person can gain from Multiform.

And that may also help to explain why more people don't do it. Compare and contrast to another productivity trick some people try and use to wring more productive hours out of their day: polyphasic sleep. Aside from the debates over whether or not it actually works, most people do not try this, not on purpose and not if they have a choice. It's uncomfortable, it requires willpower and deliberate scheduling, and it can have negative social repercussions because others don't obligingly adapt to your productivity-optimized schedule.

By contrast, if Kakara didn't have literal magic that basically deletes her need to sleep ever, she'd be exactly the kind of person who'd experiment with polyphasic sleep. Her ability to benefit so much from Multiform may not be a coincidence.
 
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