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Dragon Ball: After the End

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rkyeun said:
I just had a thought. If our enemy is a dragon, shouldn't we be looking around Otherworld for... Dende? Because... if it's a simple matter of chiseling a statue of the dragon and seven spherical balls of granite and yelling, "Hey dragon! Shut the f**k up! It's already after the end, get your life together and be useful!" ...or uh, some equivalent thing that converts a dragon into a renewable quasi-benevolent mostly-controllable resource...

...wait, we better not be fighting Omega Super Shenron. Ohhh boy. >_>
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It is almost certainly not that simple, and even if it was, no brief training in the Otherworld could give us the skills of a Dragon Clan Namekian.

fictionfan said:
The difference between a spirit bomb powered by ambient energy and freely donated energy is huge. The first was not able to beat Frieza even if it made him sweat. The second was able to beat Boo's final form.
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To be fair, the spirit bomb powered by ambient energy was powered by the life energy of Namek, a planet whose native sentient species had already been thoroughly genocided (and not brought back from the dead, yet).

We have a population of Saiyans if they help us we should be able to make a spirit bomb 10 times more powerful than what beat Boo. It that isn't enough I don't see what we can do.
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Mathing it out, three hundred thousand saiyans with an average power level of 1.5 million, as Gore17 notes, would through pure naive addition yield 450 billion.

Assuming that random farmer Raditz met was a representative sample of the population, then yeah, it's unlikely that the total resurrected population of Earth from the Buu saga could provide more than 10% of that.

(the actual contributions to a spirit bomb probably can't be found just by adding up the power levels of the contributors, but it sounds like they're at least proportionate to the summed power levels of the contributors).

fictionfan said:
I suspect that there are many exiles that are in fact better technical fighters then Goku was. It only took Kakara 3 actions to fully power up Super Saiyain. It would always make more sense for Goku to focus on uping his power level and getting to the next transformation rather then training his fighting skill. It takes 10 or more actions to master a style (along with the incidentals like hand-to-hand and ki manipulation), but only 3 to power up enough to make all that skill meaningless in the face of the power difference.

The exiles being forced to not power up are likely much more skilled fighters then Goku.
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Goku was training in the martial arts since at least as young an age as any of the Exiles. He focused pretty much entirely on training, eating, and having adventures from the age of (tiny) to the age of twenty-four (his age as of the fight with Raditz). By the time, in AE terms, he'd have sunk something like a hundred actions into training.

And remember, the state of power level training available to him prior to, oh, the Frieza Saga didn't have anywhere near the kind of payoff that the Exiles' power level training does. Furthermore, Goku repeatedly went up against stronger opponents and survived at least for a time in the face of a power level disparity, which suggests that he was also more skillful than the average opponent, or at least as skillful as them when combined with a hell of a lot of dumb luck.

I suspect that by the time Goku started getting hella-strong, he was already hella-skilled better than or superior to Berra's current skill level in the skills that were his specialties.

On top of all this, Goku had innumerable adventures of the kind that give a character the opportunity to upgrade skills to Elite/Legendary, a rank the Exiles almost never attain. Berra is astounding for having Elite Dueling. By contrast, it is virtually a given that somewhere in the several sagas and, what, three tournament arcs, Goku hit Elite Dueling somewhere before the end of Dragonball.


Okay, it SOUNDS like we're doing approval voting even if we're only going to get the top pick. If so, I'm voting...

[X] Spirit bomb research aid.

Because this is a really hard task we've set for ourselves, because Gohan is like the third-best person in the multiverse to comment on it, and because... if you can't beat 'em, bomb 'em. :D

[X] Just to spend time.

Because yay.

[X] Advice on your current situation.
-[X] In particular, on the dragon.

Because this could be handy.
 
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There's really only one thing I want from Gohan at the moment:
[X] Spirit bomb research aid.

If the coming fight required SuperSaiyan God, I think we're in a lot more trouble than a single visit to Gohan can fix. And on the flip side, all the info in the world won't help us if we don't have the power to actually take down the dragon. While I'd love to just spend time with Gohan, I think we're in a bit of a time crunch here... especially since we now DO know that we can use the sight to come back later. However, as a noncombat-spec'd saiyan, the Spirit Bomb seems to be perfect for us, especially since our illustrious author confirmed that the whole "absorb the spirit bomb for major power" thing is canon for this quest. For all the ace-in-the-holes, that's one of the best: a highly variable power up that can scale to frankly ridiculous levels.

Simon_Jester said:
To be fair, the spirit bomb powered by ambient energy was powered by the life energy of Namek, a planet whose native sentient species had already been thoroughly genocided (and not brought back from the dead, yet).
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To be fair right back to the other side: in the anime, at least, Goku acknowledges that the planet doesn't have enough juice and draws from the surrounding stars and planets as well. So he was also pulling ambient energy from other planets which hadn't been genocided.
 
They hadn't been genocided, but were they inhabited?

Ki willingly given seems to do a lot more to fuel the spirit bomb than ki drawn from ambient energy. And ki from higher lifeforms seems more significant than ki from lower ones, or that's my admittedly informal impression.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
"Well, zeni is only our highest denomination of currency, and we do have several lower denominations,"
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That the exiles have there own separate money system that is stronger than any Garenhulder money implies what I have been thinking for awhile.

The exiles are much like the magical world in Harry Potter. A hidden zeroth world country. The have more interactions with the muggles, but the same idea.
 
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If someone asks us how we managed to figure out the spirit bomb and we credit Gohan are we being humble or bragging?
 
That reminds me: with that, we know that Kakara now has enough money to feed a Saiyan family of four for 7,856 months, or 654 years.

Assuming that feeding said family for a month is the equivalent $3,500 USD, that means Kakara now has the equivalent of $27,492,500 (after paying Berra back the 100 zeni).

And now I'm wondering how much she won from the shooting competition. Also, wasn't there supposed to be a follow up vote for what we did with the winnings?
 
[X] Spirit bomb research aid.

Sigh...

With only one thing we can ask for, I'm choosing this over my Saiyan God idea. It occurs to me now that there's a decent chance part of the gods pushing back on all the Z Fighter's rule breaking might include mortals becoming gods. I'm not certain, but if that knowledge is now barred we'd waste our action asking about it and get nothing, which we can't afford to do. So Spirit Bomb it is, since now that we've gone for it we need this to work out.

ElleonXan said:
If the coming fight required SuperSaiyan God, I think we're in a lot more trouble than a single visit to Gohan can fix. And on the flip side, all the info in the world won't help us if we don't have the power to actually take down the dragon.
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The Saiyan God Ritual is probably the only place in the DBZverse that you're wrong in that; just knowing how to do it lets you immediately ascend, provided you have five Saiyans. And the fight may not require it, but the Dragon is already an existential threat we need to use anything we can get to beat. That being said, I hadn't really considered the probable issues with pulling off the Ritual... if we need five Super Saiyans, or four and a crazy-strong baby who makes her Mom's hair blonde, than we're screwed. We'd only have three righteous hearted candidates than, maybe four if Jaffur counts, but definitely not five since Yammar is... Yammar. So yeah, I agree we shouldn't go for this... yet.
 
Canal Prophet said:
With only one thing we can ask for, I'm choosing this over my Saiyan God idea. It occurs to me now that there's a decent chance part of the gods pushing back on all the Z Fighter's rule breaking might include mortals becoming gods. I'm not certain, but if that knowledge is now barred we'd waste our action asking about it and get nothing, which we can't afford to do. So Spirit Bomb it is, since now that we've gone for it we need this to work out.
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Apparently, there's extensive paperwork to be filed for new gods. By the one responsible. So, we'd probably be burying Gohan in paperwork if we asked him, he told us, and we did it.
 
Terrabrand said:
Apparently, there's extensive paperwork to be filed for new gods. By the one responsible. So, we'd probably be burying Gohan in paperwork if we asked him, he told us, and we did it.
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It would likely not be that much paperwork Godhood would likely be folded in under the current lord system.
 
On another topic, to further explain my Harry Potter analogy poor Saiyans are poor the same way the Weasleys were poor. They owned there own house, had lots of land, owned there own car, seemed to have plenty of food and their children were getting a good education.
 
fictionfan said:
It would likely not be that much paperwork Godhood would likely be folded in under the current lord system.
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Chronoa is unwilling to aid her Time Patrollers in achieving godhood because of how much paperwork it would get her while facing enemies that would justify it and even though they directly work for her.
 
The Fourth Monado said:
Pfft-

You have no idea what that means. It's literally years to decades of paperwork they have to trawl through if a God lets a mortal gain divine Ki.
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Terrabrand said:
Chronoa is unwilling to aid her Time Patrollers in achieving godhood because of how much paperwork it would get her while facing enemies that would justify it and even though they directly work for her.
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What in the world is on that paperwork? What information is needed to be filled out? This is sounding like punishment makework rather then something needed for the smooth running of the heavens.
 
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fictionfan said:
What in the world is on that paperwork? What information is needed to be filled out? This is sounding like punishment makework rather then something needed for the smooth running of the heavens.
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we don't know. But it is a punishment. The gods want godhood remaining a relatively exclusive club, so they don't want dozens of new gods being made for no reason.
 
Y'know, reading all that RP stuff is making me seriously consider changing my vote to the God Ritual. After all, surely Gohan could be persuaded in the face of such a threat to Ka-chan; that's probably the only time he could be. And we do have Exceptional communication...

Thoughts?
 
Canal Prophet said:
Y'know, reading all that RP stuff is making me seriously consider changing my vote to the God Ritual. After all, surely Gohan could be persuaded in the face of such a threat to Ka-chan; that's probably the only time he could be. And we do have Exceptional communication...

Thoughts?
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Considering God Ritual is Super-tier stuff, and the Enemy went after a post-Super Earth... Yeah, not interested yet. We need to get far stronger before doing that...

Also I'm pretty sure using enough God Ki within the wards to enter the red form would cause the wards to snap like a tense string. Which would be bad.

So... yeah.
 
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