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Kakara is not pure of heart. She cannot use the Spirit Bomb. You do not need to be pure of heart to use the Evil Containment Wave, it is not a technique that only a Kai may be able to teach, it doesn't need as long of a wind up, and it's a non-lethal way of defeating an opponent. It is better in all regards compared to the Spirit Bomb for our purposes.
I am pretty sure Kakara is as pure of heart as, for example, Gohan- and a Spirit Bomb bounced right off him. For most definitions of 'pure' I see no reason to assume Kakara is less pure than Goku, either.

You would think that if SS2 is to powerfull to be allowed then a super Saiyan using Kaio-Ken would be to much as well.
I suspect that under any normal conditions it would be. The point is that this is the "Go to Hell" plan- in the absolute worst-case scenario, going to such ludicrous power levels for a few minutes is better than allowing the continued presence on Garenhuld of an entity that is at such power levels all the time, or that can choose to go to such power levels at any time they wish.

The royals' most basic role is to enforce a monopoly on power levels in excess of, oh, 30-75 million, and to be as restrained as possible in exercising that monopoly, so as to use it only when absolutely necessary.



Still. I don't want the ping-pong match.
@PoptartProdigy :

Okay, I'm going to be blunt.

Next time you offer a vote that says "drop actions on an emergency basis in order to allow room in your schedule to do something else..." Maybe you should clearly delineate in advance what constitutes "something else."

We were told "drop actions to train." The available vote choices strongly suggested that the actions being dropped were mainly long-term and non-combat priorities, in favor of short term combat training (i.e. style, specific ki attacks, that sort of thing). We were NOT told that one of the options would be "crash-research a special technique like Spirit Bomb or Perfect Multiform, with a plausible chance of completing it this year."

If we had been told that was going to be one of our options, and that dropping our normal Perfect Multiform research would make doing this with Perfect Multiform impossible, quite a few people who voted to drop Perfect Multiform might have decided not to do so. This is not simply a case of the player-base ignoring an obvious possibility, either. Because you had already told us Perfect Multiform would take years to bear fruition, and had given us no reason to think you were suspending the usual "diminishing returns" effect of multiple actions committed to the same goal. LIstening to you, to the cumulative meaning of your words up to that point, led to a simple, single conclusion: namely, that there would be no way for us to crash-train Perfect Multiform this year.

Had people known in advance how you were going to play this, I guarantee you someone would have proposed "Plan A More Perfect Multiform" involving, say, dropping five or six action points worth of other stuff so we could get a laserlike focus on Perfect Multiform right the hell now.

This isn't your playerbase being indecisive; this is our QM not telling us the rules in advance, then calling us indecisive when we change our minds based on new information about the rules.
 
I am pretty sure Kakara is as pure of heart as, for example, Gohan- and a Spirit Bomb bounced right off him. For most definitions of 'pure' I see no reason to assume Kakara is less pure than Goku, either.

I suspect that under any normal conditions it would be. The point is that this is the "Go to Hell" plan- in the absolute worst-case scenario, going to such ludicrous power levels for a few minutes is better than allowing the continued presence on Garenhuld of an entity that is at such power levels all the time, or that can choose to go to such power levels at any time they wish.

The royals' most basic role is to enforce a monopoly on power levels in excess of, oh, 30-75 million, and to be as restrained as possible in exercising that monopoly, so as to use it only when absolutely necessary.



@PoptartProdigy :

Okay, I'm going to be blunt.

Next time you offer a vote that says "drop actions on an emergency basis in order to allow room in your schedule to do something else..." Maybe you should clearly delineate in advance what constitutes "something else."

We were told "drop actions to train." The available vote choices strongly suggested that the actions being dropped were mainly long-term and non-combat priorities, in favor of short term combat training (i.e. style, specific ki attacks, that sort of thing). We were NOT told that one of the options would be "crash-research a special technique like Spirit Bomb or Perfect Multiform, with a plausible chance of completing it this year."

If we had been told that was going to be one of our options, and that dropping our normal Perfect Multiform research would make doing this with Perfect Multiform impossible, quite a few people who voted to drop Perfect Multiform might have decided not to do so. This is not simply a case of the player-base ignoring an obvious possibility, either. Because you had already told us Perfect Multiform would take years to bear fruition, and had given us no reason to think you were suspending the usual "diminishing returns" effect of multiple actions committed to the same goal. LIstening to you, to the cumulative meaning of your words up to that point, led to a simple, single conclusion: namely, that there would be no way for us to crash-train Perfect Multiform this year.

Had people known in advance how you were going to play this, I guarantee you someone would have proposed "Plan A More Perfect Multiform" involving, say, dropping five or six action points worth of other stuff so we could get a laserlike focus on Perfect Multiform right the hell now.

This isn't your playerbase being indecisive; this is our QM not telling us the rules in advance, then calling us indecisive when we change our minds based on new information about the rules.

@PoptartProdigy

If I had known that "desperate research" would have been an option for the type of training, then I wouldn't have voted to drop multiform.
Then I'll take that on board in the future. If it makes you feel any better, looking at my numbers again, you wouldn't have broken through this turn in any case. Different mechanics at play between this and other research project options.
 
[x][FIGHT] Cynthia Balor vs. Mitsuba Roma. Odds favor Mitsuba, and heavily; Cynthia's not a fighter by trade. It won't be a very good fight. Pity, but there'll be other fights for you to watch today.

[x][TRAIN] Tien Style [1 AP] x2
[x][TRAIN] Desperate Research (Spirit Bomb) [2 AP]

Since Perfect Multiform has been shot down, I'm voting for this instead.
 
[X][FIGHT] Cynthia Balor vs. Mitsuba Roma. Odds favor Mitsuba, and heavily; Cynthia's not a fighter by trade. It won't be a very good fight. Pity, but there'll be other fights for you to watch today.

[X][TRAIN] Tien Style [1 AP]
[X][TRAIN] Specific Technique (Kikoho) [1 AP]
[X][TRAIN] Desperate Research (Spirit Bomb) [2 AP]
 
[X][FIGHT] Cynthia Balor vs. Mitsuba Roma. Odds favor Mitsuba, and heavily; Cynthia's not a fighter by trade. It won't be a very good fight. Pity, but there'll be other fights for you to watch today.

[X][TRAIN] Tien Style [1 AP]
[X][TRAIN] Specific Technique (Kikoho) [1 AP]
[X][TRAIN] Desperate Research (Spirit Bomb) [2 AP]
 
[X][FIGHT] Cynthia Balor vs. Mitsuba Roma. Odds favor Mitsuba, and heavily; Cynthia's not a fighter by trade. It won't be a very good fight. Pity, but there'll be other fights for you to watch today.

[X][TRAIN] Tien Style [1 AP]
[X][TRAIN] Specific Technique (Kikoho) [1 AP]
[X][TRAIN] Desperate Research (Spirit Bomb) [2 AP]
 
[x][TRAIN] Desperate Research (spirit bomb) [2 AP]
[x][TRAIN] Ki Manipulation [2 AP]

cant say i really care about the fight, but am leaning

[X][FIGHT] Your bracket's next, actually. You should head downstairs and get ready.
-[X][FIGHT] You're fighting just like all of the others -- Masqued and restricted. You want to see how you stack up against your people's best fighters. By which you mean you want to see how long it takes to lose. You're not winning today.

because experience is experience
 
[X][FIGHT] Your bracket's next, actually. You should head downstairs and get ready.
-[X][FIGHT] You're fighting just like all of the others -- Masqued and restricted. You want to see how you stack up against your people's best fighters. By which you mean you want to see how long it takes to lose. You're not winning today.

because experience is experience
Good point.
 
I have seen here an excellent proposition about fighting - use multiform to enter as mysterious challenger. We can probably combine it with having to fight us without restrictions as a prize. Two birds with one stone - we can both test ourselves on the level ground and provide excellent motivation (and avoid humiliation when we lose with restrictions if that is applicable, dunno about saiyan customs). For bonus points, if we somehow win (not likely) it would be super-hilarious to watch Kakara fight with herself.

@PoptartProdigy, is this viable idea?

So... how would you stop people from recognizing us? Pretty much everyone here can sense ki and you can identify people from it.
 
Because people love complex plans. You many times are among them.

I'm not seeing a complex plan. I'm seeing a tournament to select fighters to fend off an existential threat, to be followed by the announcement of another existential threat, to an extremely concerned population who are down 1/2 of their standing military for dealing with these things, on the edge of civil war, and watching the norms and traditions of centuries being thrown out the window. Instead of going out there to be awesome and remind everybody that Kakara the former weakling is now Kakara the Mighty, the Gold, a genuine marvel watching over them all while they sleep, there are votes to cast a glaring spotlight on her flaws and march out to say, "In this fragile time of multiple imminent catastrophes I just wanted to take this opportunity to publicly and dramatically remind all of you that I still really suck at my job, also a giant dragon is coming to eat everybody, sleep tight."

Kakara's combat training is basically nil. She will be stomped by rank amateurs. The last thing the Saiyans need to be reminded of right now is how the Gokun rolled snake eyes on their scion and every single one of them could beat her in a straight fight if not for her unearned hereditary privilege.
 
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[X][FIGHT] Cynthia Balor vs. Mitsuba Roma. Odds favor Mitsuba, and heavily; Cynthia's not a fighter by trade. It won't be a very good fight. Pity, but there'll be other fights for you to watch today.

[X][TRAIN] Tien Style [1 AP] x2
[X][TRAIN] Desperate Research (Spirit Bomb) [2 AP]

Adding the Fight vote and switching to the Spirit Bomb bandwagon, since it seems the most likely way of getting at least 2 Tien Style actions here instead of the Evil Containment Wave, which feels like much more of a crapshoot.

Then I'll take that on board in the future. If it makes you feel any better, looking at my numbers again, you wouldn't have broken through this turn in any case. Different mechanics at play between this and other research project options.
Fair enough, though that's pretty ominous. Is it because it's an Elite Talent, instead of its' own technique?
 
Beginning to think we would be better off mastering Tien Style then using that to unlock perfect Multiform.
 
[X][FIGHT] Cynthia Balor vs. Mitsuba Roma. Odds favor Mitsuba, and heavily; Cynthia's not a fighter by trade. It won't be a very good fight. Pity, but there'll be other fights for you to watch today.

[X][TRAIN] Tien Style [1 AP] x2
[X][TRAIN] Desperate Research (Spirit Bomb) [2 AP]

Adding the Fight vote and switching to the Spirit Bomb bandwagon, since it seems the most likely way of getting at least 2 Tien Style actions here instead of the Evil Containment Wave, which feels like much more of a crapshoot.


Fair enough, though that's pretty ominous. Is it because it's an Elite Talent, instead of its' own technique?

Crapshoot? In what sense? It is a victory if performed correctly and the hardest part is making the seal, for which we would have to use the sight. After all, Tien learnt it in 3 days after seeing it once at a distance
The technique itself took a single night for Goku to master and Trunks could perfom it after seeing it once too. .

Afawk it is the container that seems like the hardest part and neither Mutaito, Roshi or Tien showed themselves able to use magic so it shouldn't be needed for that.

We also might be better off leveling our ki manipulation to exceptional rather than leveling Tien style. It would make us more effective at combat and make it easier to learn/improve techniques.
 
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I still think that perfect multiform is a red herring. Kakara can use Kaio-ken to more than double her hitting power and approaches, a good kamikaze attack will give her an ending blow, and spirit bomb allows boosting self-damaging techniques with external lifeforce. Better investments.
 
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