Dragon Ball: After the End
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Because it was considered impossible.
Well, a few things:
1) As Aranfan said, it was thought impossible.
2) It's new, and something that their ancestors never came up with.
3) It implies that there may be more transformations/transformation combinations out there.
4) The form, while suffering the speed penalties of USSJ, and having only 80% of the blasting strength, does not experience the crushing endurance penalties, and is in fact 20% stronger physically.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] Jaffur! Explain!
[X] Chat (Golden Ape).
[X](chat) what actually happened well you were sleeping?
[X] Chat (Golden Ape).
[X](chat) what actually happened well you were sleeping?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
4) I recommend you glance at the entry for golden oozaru on the character sheet again.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
[X] Jaffur! Explain!
[X] Chat (Golden Ape).
[X] Chat (what happened that night)
[x] Chat (Jaron learning to fight)
[X] Chat (His plan after gaining freedom)
Why hug him? Wecomforted already and if we insist on it it will look like pity instead of concern.
[X] Chat (Golden Ape).
[X] Chat (what happened that night)
[x] Chat (Jaron learning to fight)
[X] Chat (His plan after gaining freedom)
Why hug him? Wecomforted already and if we insist on it it will look like pity instead of concern.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
@PoptartProdigy did being a super Saiyan raise the cap basic oozaru like it did for our normal form?
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[X] Hug. It's never too late.
Hug 4 life!
They solve all problems
Hug 4 life!
They solve all problems
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Given that your oozaru cap is a function of your base cap, it sure did.
I did? Point 4 was drawn from that, and previous statements you've made.
You've previously mentioned that the boost from USSJ only applies to the SSJ boost, as the front page confirms:
And you've previously mentioned that the speed boost malus only applies to the Super Saiyan boost as well, and that Golden Oozaru is equal in speed to a FPUSSJ.
Now, the boost from FPSSJ is up to 750 million, so double that is 1.5 billion. So FPSSJ would look like this:
Now, while I was initially unsure if the "strength" part also applied to blasting strength, the basic Oozaru profile clarified:
That, to me, says that blasting power is proportional to the PL, which makes sense.
Now, let's compare USSJ to Golden Oozaru:
USSJ: 1.875 billion (Speed of 750 million)
Golden Oozaru: 1.5 Billion (Speed of 750 million, durability and strength of 2.25 Billion)
As we can plainly see, Speed is equal like I said, Golden Oozaru has only 80% of the blasting power USSJ has, but 120% the raw physical strength and durability of USSJ. You've mentioned that USSJ has severe power-draining issues, while both Oozaru and FPSSJ have little to none, so it's therefore logical that Golden Oozaru would not suffer such a crippling defect, which indeed shows up nowhere in the description:
So, as far as I can tell, I made no mistake?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
That is also true; she's one of the (apparent) minority of Seers in Exile history to actually have enough raw power and skill at ki manipulation to do independent research into ki techniques.
Also a good reason.
And yes, the Exiles have certainly rediscovered a lot of the Z fighters' old techniques, with the conspicuous exceptions being things that are dangerous, unique, or taught only by gods... But they have very few entirely new techniques of their own, at least as far as we know. Though some of that may just be the deification of the Z fighters; if you have access to the combat techniques used by the gods themselves, why would you expect to be able to do better on your own?
That's very plausible. On the other hand it still makes the technique potentially very advantageous, especially combined with Golden Oozaru (or for that matter regular Oozaru if you're not up against a heavy hitter). Think about it: the point of going ape is enhanced strength and stamina, but in a protracted battle against a peer opponent the reduced agility tends to be a big drawback. You can easily accumulate a beating over time until a long battle becomes disadvantageous anyway... so what do you have to lose by burning your massive pool of stamina faster in order to quickly overwhelm the enemy with a combination of sheer numbers and exceptional hitting power?
Regular social contact with Jaron may be helping? I mean, we thought Jaffur was effectively locked in solitary confinement for years, which would be enough to drive anyone crazy. But if in reality he's been interacting with Jaron in Jaron's sleep for an average of, oh, a few subjective hours a night? I can see him keeping his sanity a lot better, especially if he also has the ability to do things like share Jaron's senses some of the time too.
I know, right!?
I think the phrasing is meant to imply that blowing up the rocks doesn't actually blow up the memories, new rocks arise to represent the same memories.
Uh, @Blonddude42 ? You do remember how this works, right? You don't HAVE to vote for things you think are a bad idea, or might be a bad idea. You can just vote for literally every single thing you approve of. It's fine to only vote for one or two things, or to vote for four or more things.
If you think teasing Jaffur is a good idea, well... um, I respectfully disagree and don't understand why you'd think that. If you don't think it's a good idea, then it's probably a mistake to lend "tease Jaffur" your support by voting for it, because this isn't a "plan" vote where you have to accept all the parts of an idea whether you like them or not.
Pretty sure there isn't one; the only time they were mentioned in the same sentence as far as I can tell is when Poptart told us that Mom can't teach us that style, presumably because she never learned it or even considered doing so.
The style is just less foreign to her, tactically, than Piccolo Style. If it weren't both socially stigmatized and super-lethal, she'd probably know it, I guess? But since it's both, she doesn't.
Firstly, it's a genuinely new form, something the Exiles have never even heard of. It's not just a "new technique" in the form of "a new kind of ray attack like the several others known to the Exiles," it's really new.
Secondly, it has extraordinary potential in certain highly specific roles.It is (within the Exile world) unmatched in terms of things like beam duels.
Thirdly, it restores some of the same "whoa, crap that's big and strong and scary" feeling that a regular saiyan would experience around an oozaru. In this society, the full-power royals have very little experience of anything being stronger than themselves, so anything that captures that experience is going to earn their respect.
Fourthly, if you are a super-saiyan, it's something you can do, an immediately applicable discovery rather than just a weird unique gimmick. Anyone who knows about this form can unlock this form... and yet no one ever did, until Kakara. Which makes it seem especially impressive, in a "I could have done that, shit why didn't I think of that" way.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[X] Jaffur! Explain!
[X] Chat (what happened that night)
[X] Chat (His plan after gaining freedom)
I'd like to advocate for staying 'on target' with this next update. Getting onto terms with Jaffur that allow for some trust, and informing him about the core of the plans for breaking the Seal? Those were our top priorities. Incidentally, that covers the reason I voted 'hug' in the first place.
If Priority One is "get Jaffur to trust us with some sparring and social contact" and Priority Two is "tell Jaffur we have a plan to get him out of confinement," Priority Three is "find out what happened during the Sealing" (information no one else but Dandeer can possibly share with us). Priorities Four through Infinity are a bit more flexible, but "prepare ourselves for Jaffur's likely agenda on breaking out of the Seal" is high on the list.
Pursuant to all that, I really want to know what happened on the night of the Sealing from Jaffur's perspective.
Moreover, in the context of this coming update, I'd like us to cover some of the "saiyan stuff" issues right away. Among other things, because we've just been informed Jaron will be here soon. I don't know if it's safe to discuss the Sealing in front of Jaron, or whether Jaron knows Jaffur has the potential to become an independent being again. Although "Jaffur, explain!" is likely to tell us a lot about how much Jaron knows.
[X] Chat (what happened that night)
[X] Chat (His plan after gaining freedom)
I'd like to advocate for staying 'on target' with this next update. Getting onto terms with Jaffur that allow for some trust, and informing him about the core of the plans for breaking the Seal? Those were our top priorities. Incidentally, that covers the reason I voted 'hug' in the first place.
If Priority One is "get Jaffur to trust us with some sparring and social contact" and Priority Two is "tell Jaffur we have a plan to get him out of confinement," Priority Three is "find out what happened during the Sealing" (information no one else but Dandeer can possibly share with us). Priorities Four through Infinity are a bit more flexible, but "prepare ourselves for Jaffur's likely agenda on breaking out of the Seal" is high on the list.
Pursuant to all that, I really want to know what happened on the night of the Sealing from Jaffur's perspective.
Moreover, in the context of this coming update, I'd like us to cover some of the "saiyan stuff" issues right away. Among other things, because we've just been informed Jaron will be here soon. I don't know if it's safe to discuss the Sealing in front of Jaron, or whether Jaron knows Jaffur has the potential to become an independent being again. Although "Jaffur, explain!" is likely to tell us a lot about how much Jaron knows.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
[X] Jaffur! Explain!
[X] Chat (what happened that night)
[X] Chat (His plan after gaining freedom)
[X] Chat (Golden Ape).
[X] Chat (what happened that night)
[X] Chat (His plan after gaining freedom)
[X] Chat (Golden Ape).
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
[X] Jaffur! Explain!
[X] Chat (what happened that night)
[X] Chat (His plan after gaining freedom)
[X] Chat (Golden Ape).
[X] Chat (what happened that night)
[X] Chat (His plan after gaining freedom)
[X] Chat (Golden Ape).
- Location
- Australia
[X] Jaffur! Explain!
[X] Chat (what happened that night)
[X] Chat (His plan after gaining freedom)
[X] Chat (what happened that night)
[X] Chat (His plan after gaining freedom)
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
What we have is 1/20th of Golden ape's power level, which translates to 75 millón. Which would be around 37 millón speed and 100 millón strenght? I ask because Jaffur didn't have much troubl with it even though he didn't turn super saiyan during the fight.
SL unlocked. Keep that up and we can start healing the sundering once he is out.
Jaffur: A normal Lord and Scion relationship... eerie that.
... you know, this interaction would have a completely different context if they were a few years older.
So good... worship us more! As you should!
Seriously, it is good to get respect regarding combat from the combat maniac, specially given how our first spar ended.
Good to see him having fun like a child too. If we are the only ones who can challenge him so and he loves fighting so much then periodic spars once he is out would help cross-clan relations.
Note the wording: It wasn't the fact there were super powers but that Maya was the one who had them that surprised him the most...
Jaffur, have you been talked about us behind our backs?
So, satisfying.
I WAS WRONG! THIS IS SATISFYING! GOSH DARN, I'VE BEEN WAITING THE WHOLE QUEST FOR AN OOZARU FUELED KIKOHO!
Nice to see them about appreciating the bulshit of the situation in-quest. It really is starting to seem to them like they are meant for greater things.
Well, Kakara already talked with a god but she is pretty cavalier about it.
Always the master diplomat. When in doubt, blast it.
Again, it is enjoyable to see them have fun and be kids.
Right. Jaffur was the literatura major of the team, not the mathematician.
It was 1.5 billón PL, 2.25 billón strength and 750 millón speed. PL level is calculated by twice the base plus SS boost. Speed and strength are dependant on the body shape after calculating the total PL.
The USS... I don't particularly remember the calculations.
... screw it.
THE CLANS MUST BE UNITED!
Though that would screw with the number of super saiyans which in turn would increase the chance of a successful rebellion...
I MUST PONDER ON THIS!
So, if the memories are recovered after a while, does that mean he can't Access them while they are destroyed? Would that let him fool a mind delve? Also, if these are Jaffur's memories, where are Jaron's?
Would we get a basic grounding on magic from running these messages?
What has him nervous? The lack of GLORIOUS BATTLE, the lack of mention of his father or is he unsure it will be that easy?
I like the parallels that keep coming up between us. Also, that whenever he tells us something new we can one up him:
Jaron: That is my secret. When I sleep, I dream of my unborn brother who teaches me how to fight.
Karkara: That's cool. When I sleep, I dream of my distant ancestor who ascended to godhood because of his martial skill.
Jaron: Well, uh, does he teach you how to fight?
Kakara: No, he just reminds me that he and my family love me and that I am fine the way I am.
Jaffur: ... god damn it, Scion.
Though we might want to think an excuse in case Jaron finds us here.
Jaron: Karen! What are you doing here?
Karen: Sparring with your brother.
*Hand on hip* Why else would you dream about me? 
Jaron:
Karen: *sing-song-voice* Oh, Jaron ~ Should I be telling Sophie about this? ~
Jaron: Not even in dreams can I escape the teasing!
Jaffur:
Though I guess that raises the most important question we can ask, if Jaffur is actually a shipper when it comes to Sophie and his brother. The answer might define whether we can be Friends with our fellow Scion or not
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Your phrasing implies that golden oozaru has 80% and 120% of ordinary Kakara, rather than of USSJ. Clarified now.
Sadly no. Even Jaffur isn't going to get a skill up from this, any more than you generally skilled up in Seer abilities from training Mind Projection.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
Easy fix-the entire royal family can go SSJ, but only the King/Queen can reach the higher levels.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Or you just add a new layer of nobility for the monarchs (possibly allowing access to golden oozaru) and let the lords keep their ancestral privileges. No need to fiddle with the whole family. :lol
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
Or, I mean, you could preserve the current count mostly at least by extending Lord/Lady privileges to the spouses. currently Berra's wife/Kakara's mom who's name escapes me and Dandeer don't have that right.
But expanding that to spouses would make it five, six if doing arranged marriage.
*blinks* I don't see how I implied that at all? I started off with direct mention of how it compares to USSJ, priming you to think about it in terms of USSJ, then kept up the comparisons, with the "crushing endurance penalties" bit being a clear indication I am indeed still talking about USSJ.Your phrasing implies that golden oozaru has 80% and 120% of ordinary Kakara, rather than of USSJ. Clarified now.
This is a genuine question, incidentally. Need to figure out what I did wrong to avoid it in the future, afterall.
Bah. Just continue having multiple Scions/Lords. Draw from non-direct sources, if necessary. 1 Lord and Scion, born from lineage, 1 Lord and Scion, selected from the population.
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I read it as a strict comparison to USSJ personally.
I mean, if you wanted to make absolutely sure of no confusion, redundancy is king;
4) The form, while suffering the speed penalties of USSJ, and having only 80% of the blasting strength of USSJ, does not experience the crushing endurance penalties of USSJ, and is in fact 20% stronger physically than USSJ.
would be the indisputably clear framing version, same message just with the words already implicitly there moved to explicitly existing.