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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Huh, that's cool. I'm glad you enjoy the quest so much!

I've been thinking about Oozaru, and two questions occurred to me.
  1. The Oozaru speed penalty is alarmingly reminiscent of USSJ. Would a Golden Oozaru actually be better in a fight, or would the speed penalty be equally crippling?
  2. We went for Tien style partially because we figured the larger "life force" of the Oozaru body would better withstand the backlash of the Kikoho techniques. Are we limited to 3 in that form as well currently? And just for our collective ego, how hard does a Golden Oozaru Kikoho currently hit in terms of Power Level?
 
Gore17 said:
I didn't include it, because I assumed it would be included automatically/by default, and that leaving most of the fine details to Kakara, who is rather competent, as we did when we choose to "walk away" would be safe to do.

...I should probably check though. @PoptartProdigy?

Mind, we did beat him, we successfully evaded capture for a while, and we put up a good fight against our dad. We could easily we reframe it as "we were actually on the other side of that running battle, and we only lost due to Dad having greater Ki Reserves then the two of us combined".

And besides, if we master Tien Style, Team and Crowd Fighting, gain Perfect Multiform and learn the proposed "power of a USSJ for brief instances" trick, we might be able to beat Berra, Apra and Yammar simultaneously.

Might being the keyword.:wink:

How so with the first.

As for the second... Scouts didn't go the way you expected? Did you think we'd give them a heads up, or not interact with them by this point?
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In -- as is my custom -- order:

Unless the rolls are fucked badly enough that you'd fail anyway, yes it is assumed.

With Sophie, that was my prediction upon your choice of starting skills. The choice of Medicine indicated that you might be interested in ki healing. Of course, you've not pursued that at all, but if you had, I would included a bit where you had the opportunity to heal one of Sophie's (many) scraped knees, surreptitiously, before she had the chance to really get a look at it ("Nah, Soph, it's not nearly as bad as it looks! See?".

The result being that having Scion-grade ki in her system would give Sophie's own ki a shot in the arm. Cue your friend excitedly showing you her new superpowers. Of course, the whole (hypothetical) incident is purely academic at this stage, as the ki secret is firmly out and Kakara is teaching Sophie anyway.

With the scouts, I did expect you to let them know, yes. I was honestly shocked when there was serious opposition to the idea. Then I was amused, because -- at least from my perspective -- the consequences were obvious. Of course, privileged perspective, blah blah blah. Clearly it was far less cut-and-dry from the players' perspective.
Deathbybunnies said:
Huh, that's cool. I'm glad you enjoy the quest so much!

I've been thinking about Oozaru, and two questions occurred to me.
  1. The Oozaru speed penalty is alarmingly reminiscent of USSJ. Would a Golden Oozaru actually be better in a fight, or would the speed penalty be equally crippling?
  2. We went for Tien style partially because we figured the larger "life force" of the Oozaru body would better withstand the backlash of the Kikoho techniques. Are we limited to 3 in that form as well currently? And just for our collective ego, how hard does a Golden Oozaru Kikoho currently hit in terms of Power Level?
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As am I. I try to make my quests a joy to run as well as in which to participate.
  1. Bear in mind that Oozaru also has a commensurate boost to strength and durability -- while Golden Oozaru Kakara's expressed power level is 1.5 billion, she hits with an effective force of 2.25 billion -- stronger than any newly-ascended SSJ2. It's an entirely different dynamic. She's not really suited to fighting human- or saiyan-sized opponents of peer strength as a Golden Oozaru, but she works wonders as a sapient artillery piece, or a kaiju fighter.
  2. You actually haven't tested Kikoho in Golden Oozaru -- the current strength of the Hall's wards prohibit it. That said, it should allow greater usage. However, if the pattern holds, using the Kikoho as a Golden Oozaru at full power should give her an expressed power level of 1.8 billion -- Super Saiyan 2 levels of strength for an instant, which would hit like 2.7 billion. Also, kriffed up the calculations on Kikoho. At your power level it strikes at 1.35 billion, not 1.3.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Bear in mind that Oozaru also has a commensurate boost to strength and durability -- while Golden Oozaru Kakara's expressed power level is 1.5 billion, she hits with an effective force of 2.25 billion -- stronger than any newly-ascended SSJ2. It's an entirely different dynamic. She's not really suited to fighting human- or saiyan-sized opponents of peer strength as a Golden Oozaru, but she works wonders as a sapient artillery piece, or a kaiju fighter.
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Fair enough, I thought the USSJ form also hit harder and was tougher, but I don't know the exact numbers.

Also gee, I wonder if fighting kaiju is going to be relevant at some future point :V
 
Ah, ok. Poptart just assuaged most of my woories about the write in with his last vote. I still put more importance in Jaron getting trained than in talking to Dandeer so I will keep my vote as is in the odd chance we fail to convince her but I am not as worked out about the option anymore since it seems our bigger bonus apply.
 
All the fighting styles that we have access to get made to fight human shaped foes. If we are fighting a Dragon we might want something different.
 
USSJ Oozaru artillery when?

[X] The time has finally come. You need to talk to Dandeer again.
-[X] Ask Dad and Grandma for advice. Doubles as insurance as they know what's happening.
-[X] Also, double-check that Jaron actually got permission for the training. If he didn't, you'll offer a formal apology to Dandeer, because whatever your feelings for her are, it was genuinely negligent on your part.
-[X] Talk to Dandeer in private about Jaron and his wish to fight.
-[X]Also ask her about her long term plan. The current situation does not seem tenable long term. Jaron can't be kept in an infantile state of dependency forever, and the Vegetans obviously aren't happy with him not being allowed to train.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
The choice of Medicine indicated that you might be interested in ki healing. Of course, you've not pursued that at all,
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We're interested!

It's just, you know, lower on the priority list. :(
PoptartProdigy said:
With the scouts, I did expect you to let them know, yes. I was honestly shocked when there was serious opposition to the idea. Then I was amused, because -- at least from my perspective -- the consequences were obvious. Of course, privileged perspective, blah blah blah. Clearly it was far less cut-and-dry from the players' perspective.
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Honestly, I still don't understand what the objections/lack of votes were about, especially since you confirmed it would be quick? And I called that there would be consequences damnit!
Deathbybunnies said:
Fair enough, I thought the USSJ form also hit harder and was tougher, but I don't know the exact numbers.

Also gee, I wonder if fighting kaiju is going to be relevant at some future point :V
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Oozaru and USSJ are basically the same with the power-output increase, only Oozaru alters our base power, while USSJ alters the boost from Super Saiyan. Also, USSJ drains energy like there's no tomorrow.

Both combined are great if you absolutely positively must annihilate a star system though. :V
 
PoptartProdigy said:
With Sophie, that was my prediction upon your choice of starting skills. The choice of Medicine indicated that you might be interested in ki healing. Of course, you've not pursued that at all,
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Gore17 said:
We're interested!

It's just, you know, lower on the priority list. :(
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It just seems unlikely that we will ever be as good at healing as Sensi beans already are. Also the lack of possible teachers.

Of course the fact that it was never a listed option for the yearly actions might have something to do with it.
 
PoptartProdigy said:
USSJ is just a flat bonus to PL, at the cost of crippling speed and endurance penalties.
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Makes sense. What exactly does "crippling" mean in mechanical terms though? Oozaru's 50% penalty seems pretty big, but without peeling back the curtain further than you might be comfortable with it's hard to compare. Though one boosting endurance and the other crippling it is obviously a major factor too.
 
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Hmmm...

I haven't actually gotten the chance to watch GT, but I know that they're somehow related... What's the barrier between Golden Oozaru and SSj4? Or is 4 just not a thing as far as this quest is concerned?
 
CaesriusPolybius said:
Hmmm...

I haven't actually gotten the chance to watch GT, but I know that they're somehow related... What's the barrier between Golden Oozaru and SSj4? Or is 4 just not a thing as far as this quest is concerned?
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Select GT elements are considered canon, and Pop's not saying whether it exists or not - there's decent arguments not to include it, so we really don't know either way.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Select GT elements are considered canon, and Pop's not saying whether it exists or not - there's decent arguments not to include it, so we really don't know either way.
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Meanwhile I am trying to figure out how to unlock it because it is supposed to be all the power of Ozzaru in a smaller form. It shouldn't be much stronger PL wise
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Select GT elements are considered canon, and Pop's not saying whether it exists or not - there's decent arguments not to include it, so we really don't know either way.
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I'm guessing it is simply because it and GO are linked. My current ideas based on what I know if it are either it's the great gold gorilla version of FPSS or SSj2, but like I said I don't know enough about it to make a proper guess.

EDIT: I wonder if Oozaru Blue would be a thing...
 
Lunaryon said:
Meanwhile I am trying to figure out how to unlock it because it is supposed to be all the power of Ozzaru in a smaller form. It shouldn't be much stronger PL wise
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Well, given that It's called SSJ4 it might be impossible without 2 and 3. Otherwise, I suppose trying to combine our two "base" bodies as a research project might work, though I doubt it would accomplish more than literally adding the two bases together in a smaller form.

...Actually, that's probably worth looking into.

CaesriusPolybius said:
I'm guessing it is simply because it and GO are linked. My current ideas based on what I know if it are either it's the great gold gorilla version of FPSS or SSj2, but like I said I don't know enough about it to make a proper guess.

EDIT: I wonder if Oozaru Blue would be a thing...
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WOG says the quest will take and leave whatever pop wants it to. Go read the front page.
 
Bakkasama said:
You know what bothers me the most about the leading vote?



I makes no mention about us thinking that him getting training migth help keep him safe. Making sure that Jaron is safe and sound is the ONE THING in which Dandeer and Kakara might find common ground and that both agree is important and the vote makes no mention of that. Furthermore, just mentioning it would make Kakara think of this action as something that might help keep him safe, which would mean that both of this traits would actívate:





which would give a moderate and a minor bonus to the action. It is such a small change with such a big benefit that makes me doubt how much thought was given to the writting.

Now, credit where it is due, it does benefit from some traits


It would get a minor boost from this one though a stronger wording might change it to moderate.


It potentially benefits from this one since it tries to stop the situation from escalating.

This part affects the last part of the vote.

Not as big of a malus to interacting with her.

This one benefits because we consult Berra and Apra.

And this one is obvious.

So it is not as bad as I first thought and it shows some thought was put into it even though it could be better. However, there is the other part of convincing others, which is to tailor the argument to them.

I have already mentioned the lack of mention regarding Jaron's safety. It would also help to explain why Jaron wishes to be able to fight (an important distintion compared to his wish to fight). For one, he hasn't decided if he will fight or not. For another, telling her why would help her understand that Jaron himself doesn't know himself if he will do so or not until the momento comes which would make her aware that it is posible he will choose to fight regardless of him being trained or not. It also puts the blame of this on him being a good boy, which appeases the mother in her (since we compliment her son and how he was raised) and makes her less suspicious about us being the ones who convinced him to fight, which she already was with the scout situation. As things are, she is likely to believe we are taking advantage of the situation to train Jaron rathr than adapting to it by doing it. If you can also tie his actions to the morals learned from the faith instead for the wish for fights saiyans have then it would appeal to the religious in her rather tan her delusion of saiyan violence making a reappearance. Even if it doesn't convince her, it would at least help her prepare so that he doesn't join the fight. Finally, we could add to it that WE don't want him to fight but are afraid that his good heart might get the better of him and while we expect for there to be saiyans assigned to protect him, he at least has to last enough for them to get him out of a stciky situation if he does manage to slip away, an argument that would further assuage her we are not trying to take advantage. Finally, you could mention it would ease Jaron's mind if he believes he can defend his mother and sister if te aliens attack, which would both mean it is to help him cope and that he does it because he loves his mother, which is something she cares about a lot.
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I love how it completely disregards Jaron's desires. In the privacy after their quite-possibly secret training session he confided something to his teacher who's lessons he'd be trusting his life to and which he couldn't even bring himself to say in front of his other friends? Better run to ask the opinions of everybody except him and tell his mommy everything!
 
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