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@PoptartProdigy, quick question: the Ship Has Sunk option, does it automatically include Maya in the "teaching your friends ki" thing, or since she already knows the basics would we have to specifically write it in to make sure she's there?
 
Let me check your count.

2 actions with school (Maintain Grades)
3 actions with friends (Better Living Through Ki, Hand Out Life Preservers, Train Maya)
5 actions with 'prepare to be next Lady Goku' (Stewardship x2, Command Theory)
4 actions to train ki techniques and combat techniques (Tien Style, Jaffur Form, Perfect Multiform, Transcendence)
3 related to the mysteries and the conspiracy (Train with Sensei, Study Magic, Contact Jaffur)

Okay, yes, that is seventeen. What do you suggest that I drop outright, as opposed to swapping for something else? It looks like your plan drops 'Study Magic.' I'm including that in part to address the fears of the people who are worried about Dandeer using her sorcery in dangerous ways. That's a reasonable fear, and I'm not sure I want to entirely ignore it.

My own inclination would be to cut Command Theory, because while I like the idea of pursuing it, we'll be committing a tremendous amount of energy to our budding proto-Ladyship as it is if we double up on Stewardship.

Another possibility is to drop ONE of the Stewardships and take a single-action item instead. Not sure what to do with the action thus freed up. I could actually get behind spending the extra action befriending one of the Misfits, either Maya or Jaron- normally I'd oppose that, but I think that a bit more semi-normal socialization with them might be good for Kakara's mental health given how much else she's got on her plate.
How about dropping Jaffur form? I mean, if you think we will need the firepower you could drop magic or command theory but I like the rest.
 
@KaintukeeBob , @Thriceboiled , @Bakkasama , please note that I am resolved to fix the flaw in "Plan Training Montage." You don't need to unvote it; it will be fixed to have sixteen actions. I am actively soliciting input as to which action to cut.

Let me check your count.

2 actions with school (Maintain Grades)
3 actions with friends (Better Living Through Ki, Hand Out Life Preservers, Train Maya)
5 actions with 'prepare to be next Lady Goku' (Stewardship x2, Command Theory)
4 actions to train ki techniques and combat techniques (Tien Style, Jaffur Form, Perfect Multiform, Transcendence)
3 related to the mysteries and the conspiracy (Train with Sensei, Study Magic, Contact Jaffur)

Okay, yes, that is seventeen. What do you suggest that I drop outright, as opposed to swapping for something else? It looks like your plan drops 'Study Magic.' I'm including that in part to address the fears of the people who are worried about Dandeer using her sorcery in dangerous ways. That's a reasonable fear, and I'm not sure I want to entirely ignore it.

My own inclination would be to cut Command Theory, because while I like the idea of pursuing it, we'll be committing a tremendous amount of energy to our budding proto-Ladyship as it is if we double up on Stewardship.

Another possibility is to drop ONE of the Stewardships and take a single-action item instead. Not sure what to do with the action thus freed up. I could actually get behind spending the extra action befriending one of the Misfits, either Maya or Jaron- normally I'd oppose that, but I think that a bit more semi-normal socialization with them might be good for Kakara's mental health given how much else she's got on her plate.

[Of course, saiyans THRIVE on greatly overloaded plates]

We've hit the form's maximum power level, or at least as close as we can get to it without blowing up the Training Hall's wards. I'm not at all sure it's smart or safe to push that form further, and we almost certainly won't be using it this year or next.

If you're dropping something, I would recommend either study magic, transcendence or command theory in order of what I would prefer be dropped, it's your plan however, so it's ultimately up to you.

Edit: quoted wrong post.
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by fictionfan on Aug 13, 2017 at 4:35 PM, finished with 777 posts and 35 votes.

  • [X] What is.
    [X] What was.
    [x] What will be.
    [X] Plan Training Montage
    -[X] Maintain Grades
    -[X] Better Living Through Ki
    -[X] The Ship Has Been Sunk, Now Hand Out the Life Preservers
    -[X] Train Maya
    --[X] Rise slowly to displayed power levels close to her maximum, and keep pacing her, to push her to excel and be safer in combat.
    -[X] A Scion's Stewardship, Human-Facing
    -[X] A Scion's Stewardship
    -[X] Command Theory
    -[X] Train Tien Style
    --[X] Train with Mom
    -[X] Study Jaffur's Form
    --[X] With Mato
    -[X] Research Project: Perfect Multiform
    -[X] Transcendence
    -[X] Train With Sensei
    -[X] Study Magic
    -[X] Contact Jaffur
    [X] "Why Cynthia, have you ever had sex in a bomb?"
    [X]Plan can this get even 5 votes?
    -[X]Slack
    -[X] Set the record straight
    -[X] Transcendence
    [X] Plan Bakka
    -[X] Maintain Grades (2 actions)
    -[x] My Best Friend (1 action, Jaron):
    -[X] Better Living Through Ki (1 action)
    -[X] The Ship Has Been Sunk, Now Hand Out the Life Preservers (1 action)
    -[x] Train Maya (1 action):
    --[X] Rise slowly to displayed power levels close to her maximum, and keep pacing her, to push her to excel and be safer in combat.
    -[X] A Scion's Stewardship, Human-Facing (2 actions)
    -[X] Command Theory (1 action)
    -[x] Train Style [Tien] (1 action):
    -[X] Train With Sensei (1 action)
    -[x] A Scion's Stewardship (2 actions):
    -[X] Contacting Jaffur (1 action)
    -[x] Transcendence (1 action):
    -[X] Research Project (1 action) [Perfect Multiform]
    [X] Plan NEVER SLACK
    -[x] School
    -[x] Tien Style
    -[x] Drama Club
    -[X] Contact Jaffur
    -[x] Train the Misfits in ki
    -[X] A Scion's Stewardship, Human-Facing
    -[x] A Scion's Stewardship, Saiyan-Facing
    -[X] Transcendence
    -[x] Perfect Multiform
    [X]Plan Deathbybunnies
    -[X] Maintain Grades (2 actions)
    -[X] Better Living Through Ki (1 action)
    -[X] The Ship Has Been Sunk, Now Hand Out the Life Preservers (1 action)
    -[X] A Scion's Stewardship, Human-Facing (2 actions)
    -[X] Command Theory (1 action)
    -[X] Train Style [Tien] (1 action) x3
    -[X] Train With Sensei (1 action)
    -[X] Study Magic (1 action)
    -[X] Contacting Jaffur (1 action)
    -[X] Research Project (1 action) [Perfect Multiform]
    -[X] Transcendence (1 action) x2
    [X] Plan Social Victory
    -[X] Sub-Option 1
    -[X] Sub-Option 2
    -[X] Etc.
    [X] Hot Dandeer on Dandeer Mental Chess games
    [X] Why multiform is not a toy, a complete idiots guide to not melting your own brain.
    [X] Cat Out of the Hat
    [X] Kakara trains in posing
    [X] Kakara trains in Satan Style
    [X] Go Super Saiyan 2
    [X] Action Plan: Kill everything
    [X] Armageddon Initiative
    [X] Plan Ascension
    -[X] Maintain Grades (2 actions): You're good where you are, and you have a lot to do. Let's just get the effort in to stick it out and then focus on other things. Effect: Maintain grades.
    -[X] My Best Friend (1 action, may be taken more than once): Maya
    -[X] Better Living Through Ki (1 action)
    -[X] The Ship Has Been Sunk, Now Hand Out the Life Preservers (1 action)
    -[x] Train Maya (1 action):
    -[X] A Scion's Stewardship, Human-Facing (2 actions)
    -[x] A Scion's Stewardship (2 actions):
    -[X] Contacting Jaffur (1 action): MAKE SURE TO TELL HIM ABOUT THE INVASION
    -[X] Study Magic (1 action)
    -[X] Command Theory (1 action)
    -[X] Study Jaffur's Form (1 action):
    -[X] With Mato. Effects: Social with Mato, two minds working in concert on the problem instead of separately.
    -[X] Research Project (1 action) - Golden Oozaru
    -[X] Transcendence
 
Hmm... I'd say either dropping Tien style or Training with Sensei.

Actually, yeah. Training with Sensei is not likely to give us something super useful against the invasion, and that is what we kind of need to focus on right now.
Our Seer abilities will never become particularly useful if we don't cultivate them over a long period of time. We cannot afford to get so focused on short-term priorities that we don't put in the time and effort to obtain useful, high-level powers over years of time.

Just like we keep putting in two actions a year (on average) to do well in school and make sure Kakara gets a good general education, we have to keep putting in an action a year to develop our as-yet nascent Seer powers into something that will be useful in the future. Otherwise, we're wasting a very large amount of potential that we were very lucky to get.

I don't think we need to spend actions on command theory the rewards are uncertain and The Scion duties actions should give us plenty of leadership experience.
It's not just about leadership, it's about generalship.

As @Deathbybunnies notes, spending an action on this is likely to let us break through a cap on tactical skill. Given that we may be one of the first figures in Dragonball history to actually command an army of high-powered saiyans, that is probably a good idea.

Berra has taught us all he knows, but as far as I can determine he probably doesn't know more about being a leader of troops than a good infantry captain would know. There's a vast amount of things he simply does not know and has had no chance to practice. Things like having large bodies of fighters moving around through the air at hypersonic speeds and keeping track of their actions. Things like having a staff to delegate keeping track of what people are doing, separate from the individual leaders of squads or companies of warriors.

Given Kakara's ravenous study habits, it's entirely possible that committing an hour or two a day by one of her Multiform clones to reviewing the literature of military strategy on Garenhuld could bear fruit with all sorts of very useful ideas Berra may never have even heard of.

Then we should do it by battles. We are very short on actions.
The problem with learning generalship entirely on-the-job is that people die more when you do it that way. Studying good tactics in advance saves lives among your soldiers. Planning ahead saves lives. We're not so busy that it isn't at least reasonable for us to spend time learning how to coordinate saiyans who may well be our soldiers in decades to come.

@PoptartProdigy, quick question: the Ship Has Sunk option, does it automatically include Maya in the "teaching your friends ki" thing, or since she already knows the basics would we have to specifically write it in to make sure she's there?
The problem is that Maya's at a power level of one million or so, whereas any freshly-trained Misfits are going to have power levels in... I don't know, the hundreds? Thousands? We can't train usefully with both of them at the same time.

It's like, training that would help Goku and Gohan fight Cell during the Cell saga would be useless to help Krillin fight Frieza's goons during the Namek saga, and vice versa. Because Krillin (at a power level in, say, the tens of thousands tops, against enemies at the same level) simply cannot participate meaningfully in training that's intended to benefit beings with power levels in the hundreds of millions.

So if we're training the other Misfits and Maya just happens to be around, she's not going to learn much that's useful to her at her current level. She'd be like a high school student plunked down in a second grade elementary school class.

If you're dropping something, I would recommend either study magic, transcendence or command theory in order of what I would prefer be dropped, it's your plan however, so it's ultimately up to you.

Edit: quoted wrong post.
My gut says "Study Magic" can go, but I want to ask around. Is there anyone interested in voting for Plan Training Montage who wants "Study Magic" to stay?

How about dropping Jaffur form? I mean, if you think we will need the firepower you could drop magic or command theory but I like the rest.
It serves a social function with a younger brother who's getting old enough that he could be a useful ally, it may well help us connect to Jaffur if and when we get into regular communication with him, AND Jaffur's concentrated ki tricks may well be useful to us. He mostly uses his super-concentrated energy for deadly beams, but we might be able to adapt it into bindings, traps, or barriers of ki that can be projected like shields to protect people.
 
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[X] Plan Training Montage without command Training.
-[X] Maintain Grades
-[X] Better Living Through Ki
-[X] The Ship Has Been Sunk, Now Hand Out the Life Preservers
-[X] Train Maya
--[X] Rise slowly to displayed power levels close to her maximum, and keep pacing her, to push her to excel and be safer in combat.
-[X] A Scion's Stewardship, Human-Facing
-[X] A Scion's Stewardship
-[X] Train Tien Style
--[X] Train with Mom
-[X] Study Jaffur's Form
--[X] With Mato
-[X] Research Project: Perfect Multiform
-[X] Transcendence
-[X] Train With Sensei
-[X] Study Magic
-[X] Contact Jaffur
 
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[X] Plan Training Montage

I really want to reflect on Oddball or Ambitious here. If the plan isn't modified to do so I'll make my own.
 
I think we're just telling him word-for-word what the master sorcerer tells us to tell him.
In other words is likely to work out better if we understand what we are saying rather than being in a game of telephone. Also we can answer his questions.

Edit: He might be able to learn a bunch of other useful Magic as well.
 
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Another possibility is to drop ONE of the Stewardships and take a single-action item instead. Not sure what to do with the action thus freed up. I could actually get behind spending the extra action befriending one of the Misfits, either Maya or Jaron- normally I'd oppose that, but I think that a bit more semi-normal socialization with them might be good for Kakara's mental health given how much else she's got on her plate.

Honestly? I'd drop the Saiyan Stewardship - taking both explicitly has a negative impact on our relationship with Dad, because he'll feel guilty as hell that he's pushing so much on us.

I'd then take a reflective option, or double up on Tien Style training, with a strong preference for reflective.

Upgraded Oddball + Excellent Strategy/Tactics from command training could be a HUGE benefit for unconventional tactics.
 
In other words is likely to work out better if we understand what we are saying rather than being in a game of telephone. Also we can answer his questions.

Edit: He might be able to learn a bunch of other useful Magic as well.
We are absolutely not teaching him anything else - the wholse point of getting him contact with Dandelor is that someone qualified can teach him other stuff. We can't even use magic, we might be missing entire senses needed to use it.
 
We are absolutely not teaching him anything else - the wholse point of getting him contact with Dandelor is that someone qualified can teach him other stuff. We can't even use magic, we might be missing entire senses needed to use it.
We want to learn the limits of Magic at some point. It might as well be now when we will get some other benifts from it and the bonus from "a cause".
 
Honestly? I'd drop the Saiyan Stewardship - taking both explicitly has a negative impact on our relationship with Dad, because he'll feel guilty as hell that he's pushing so much on us.

I'd then take a reflective option, or double up on Tien Style training, with a strong preference for reflective.
I second this with a strong preference for Tien Style training, on the basis that learning 3 entirely new moves, training a fourth we haven't really touched and then tying them all together into a cohesive style is going to take a major time investment, and I'd like to make a real start on it. I myself have put 3 in my plan, and I suspect that learning new moves means that one action might not even be enough to actually start learning the style itself.

Upgraded Oddball + Excellent Strategy/Tactics from command training could be a HUGE benefit for unconventional tactics.
I see your long-term point, but in the short term I think we're aiming to get what we can from Garenhulder military history and tweaking it to apply to flying supersoldiers rather than making up our own stuff from whole cloth.


We want to learn the limits of Magic at some point. It might as well be now when we will get some other benifts from it and the bonus from "a cause".
I don't think the action involves a roll, but if it does that's certainly a valid point. @PoptartProdigy does Study Magic involve any rolls, or is it pure exposition?

Also, can we ask what the hell happened with Endivan at some point? That's still unanswered.
 
Honestly? I'd drop the Saiyan Stewardship - taking both explicitly has a negative impact on our relationship with Dad, because he'll feel guilty as hell that he's pushing so much on us.

I'd then take a reflective option, or double up on Tien Style training, with a strong preference for reflective.

Upgraded Oddball + Excellent Strategy/Tactics from command training could be a HUGE benefit for unconventional tactics.
wait, what?

Negative impact on the relationship with Dad?
 
wait, what?

Negative impact on the relationship with Dad?
Dad feeling guilty that we focus/help so much instead of having a childhood. What Kaintuke is not mentioning is that, in the post it was mentioned, it also said he would be proud.

Edit: To clarify, it is never stated that it would impact negatively if we did take both, just that he would feel a mixture of guilty, proud and one other feeling I don't remember.
 
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This age? Crushing embarrassingly hard on a human girl in his Social Studies class.

Your Scionship is distinctly unusual in how chaotic and involved it is. There's a very good reason Berra expects you to be interested in a very normal life, and tends to enforce it as a matter of habit. He honestly considers it to be a failure of his that you get as involved as you do.

Aw, that's adorable. The embarassing crush, and the expectation that we're "interested in a very normal life". We could do with a less eventful life, but a normal life? Not so much.

And I'm guessing he's going to be a weird mixture of proud, upset and worried if we take both Scion Stewardship options?

 
What Kaintuke is not mentioning is that, in the post it was mentioned, it also said he would be proud.

You are correct. I did not mention that part, but not out of malice - simply a lack of time to pull up the relevant quote.

I will point out that - IN MY OPINION - the pride would not overwhelm the 'upset' and 'worried' that Dad would feel. It may not change our relationship status, but it would possibly make him feel like he was 'stealing' our childhood, and possibly that would have negative impacts on us in the future (for instance, if he decided that he wanted us to have a 'normal childhood' and watched us more closely, limiting our actions next year).

Let's not encourage him to protect us from ourselves.

As an aside, I know my name can be hard to type. 'Bob' or 'KBob' are perfectly good abbreviations :)
 
Ah, okay.

You are correct. I did not mention that part, but not out of malice - simply a lack of time to pull up the relevant quote.

I will point out that - IN MY OPINION - the pride would not overwhelm the 'upset' and 'worried' that Dad would feel. It may not change our relationship status, but it would possibly make him feel like he was 'stealing' our childhood, and possibly that would have negative impacts on us in the future (for instance, if he decided that he wanted us to have a 'normal childhood' and watched us more closely, limiting our actions next year).

Let's not encourage him to protect us from ourselves.

As an aside, I know my name can be hard to type. 'Bob' or 'KBob' are perfectly good abbreviations :)
Then maybe he shouldn't have mind raped a young boy. We're having to grow up so that we can fix his stupid mistakes.
 
The problem is that Maya's at a power level of one million or so, whereas any freshly-trained Misfits are going to have power levels in... I don't know, the hundreds? Thousands? We can't train usefully with both of them at the same time.

It's like, training that would help Goku and Gohan fight Cell during the Cell saga would be useless to help Krillin fight Frieza's goons during the Namek saga, and vice versa. Because Krillin (at a power level in, say, the tens of thousands tops, against enemies at the same level) simply cannot participate meaningfully in training that's intended to benefit beings with power levels in the hundreds of millions.

So if we're training the other Misfits and Maya just happens to be around, she's not going to learn much that's useful to her at her current level. She'd be like a high school student plunked down in a second grade elementary school class.

That's nice and all, but I don't want to include Maya because I think it will help her power up faster, (though I could make an argument that that little extra bit would help in her control and utility) but because there are other, more obscure benefits that can come out of it.

The first, of course, is socialization. We've already seen that there seems to be a little bit of a rift forming in the Misfits. Telling them "oh, you can't train when Maya and I train because she's just so much better than you" isn't going to to be mending any bridges, now is It?

Also, it'll probably be a decent way of giving Maya a sense of scale. Right now, as far as I can tell, she has no way of knowing that her frankly ridiculous rate of growth is anything but normal. Especially with the whole "yeah, we're always behind you... but not THAT far behind" strategy we've seemingly been using so far. Seeing how "slowly" our friends power up may end up giving Maya perspective.

Also, I figure that if, as everybody keeps saying, tutoring others in school can help us better understand school stuff ourselves, then the same could be said about Maya helping to tutor the rest of our friends in ki usage.

But most of all, I figure that by showing the contrast between the training the other Misfits are getting and the training she herself is getting, and then by pointing out that the two of us are prodigies in Power Level related things, and then pointing out that we've actually been training a LOT longer than her, it will be the easiest and safest way to explain that we've been sandbagging to make her feel better about herself.

Because, what with everything that's happened, I am fully convinced that it will come out and I'd rather have it in as controlled a situation as possible.
 
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