Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- The Great Beyond
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I don't remember the fight very well right now, but doesn't Vegeta basically continuously curbstomp them as an Oozaru and then get his tail cut off?
The alternate that crosses my mind would be: Oozaru power level has little or no relation to normal power level. Oozaru start at a high power level, and then by growing older perhaps and training as an Oozaru definitely growing stronger-with different tier limits from a normal Saiyan. It's a separate track, in effect, rather than 'an identical yet somehow different' super power state.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
As I recall it, he curbstomps Goku, has a bit more trouble with Krillin and Gohan, then gets his tail cut off by Yajirobe.
Eh, it'd have to be a pretty big initial boost still considering what we see in canon when an Oozuru transforms and what they pull out right out of the gate. I mean its not necessarily a bad idea, its just the variables it adds to argue over might not be a good idea.
Mmm, yeah, it feels like SSJ should be able to pretty handily own an Oozuru unless the latter is truly ridiculous. On the other hand... Oozuru's do lose a crap-ton of speed. They usually come off as being even slower than their base forms would be, although the raw strength scales very well.
Maybe have it top off at a x2 boost? Seems a bit weak for how they push up the babies into world killers though. Maybe a small flat additive as well?
I want to argue against it, but the idea itself is sound.
Goku was already wasted from the Kaioken, and he just laughed off Krillen and Gohan pretty much.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
It doesn't make sense for it to be a low multiplier. When Vegeta used the power ball, Goku was surprised because it took Vegeta a lot of energy to do a blast that didn't seem to have much effect. The pay off had to be worth it.
I think the besr explanation is a mixture of kaio ken and super saiyan. In BoD they liken the ss transformations to doors that allow certain amount of power to flow in but mastering allowed for a bigger flow. I would propose Oozaru being an inneficient form of super. Rather than transforming into a more efficient ss form, it makes the body bigger to allowfor more power inside it, from the same source as ss.
Now, in BoD, Goku fights ss Vegeta using kaioken and manages to match him for a moment. However, he realizes there is a limit to kaioken since there is a point that the saiyan grows so powerful that the power level difference caused by the boost makes it so the body can no longer handle thebigger ones. So when before one could use a x25 before it was too big for the body to handle, at a larger base it becomes a lower multiplier after certain point since the raw power added becomes more than the body can handle.
Under a similar logic, you can use Oozaru as a x10 multiplier. Having the same power source as ss but the form of the ape is less capable of holding it in. So instead of handling the 145 millon units, ir strengthens the body to handle up to 10 times the normal amount of power but loses effectiveness as the base form power increases since the raw amount of power added does as well. That way you can use the normal x10 multiplier but when reaching the base form limit of 15 million you get diminishing results from the transformation since it can't surpass in efficiency ss. At that point, unless you transform into ss your power hits a plateau since it can't quite handle the boost. Once the level cap is removed, the Oozaru multiplier would rapidly decline and end up at lower than 3 since that is the proportion the ss transformation use to limit the power of the base form andthe power of the ss boosts, that being the way the body protects the warrior from calling more power than they can handle. The different ss transformations not only change the body when transformed to be able to contain more power but, since the body remembers then the base increases its capacity as well. Which is consistent with the mechanic of the training method of the bulked ss form as expressed in BoD.
This explanation, that of Oozaru being a form for the body to contain 10 times the normal amount if power letting in the same aource as the ss power but losing efficiency as it reaches ss levels since the raw difference becomes too big even for it (and reaching a plateau of about x2 multiplier) has an extra beauty to it. Aesthetically, ss3 looks more apelike so you might make an argument that ss3 taps into the remants of tge great ape mechanism, with a partial transformation since it lacks blutz waves and the tail to amplify them, in order to brute force more power in. Which would explain why it is so inestable, since it is not meant to be.
Under this system, further develop of the oozaru could give a partial transformation boost to ss for a limited in exchange of a lot of strain in the body (ss3 being the version of this for ss2) or it could be that ozaru ss2 would be the perfected form of ss3. Ss great ape would allow you to add the ss boost to your doubled base power and further training to master the form allow you to eventually access double the normal ss boost while being a great ape. Alternatively, training it could be so that either the multiplier grows closer to 3 again or it might be necessary so that it doesn't atrophy even lower than 2.
I think the besr explanation is a mixture of kaio ken and super saiyan. In BoD they liken the ss transformations to doors that allow certain amount of power to flow in but mastering allowed for a bigger flow. I would propose Oozaru being an inneficient form of super. Rather than transforming into a more efficient ss form, it makes the body bigger to allowfor more power inside it, from the same source as ss.
Now, in BoD, Goku fights ss Vegeta using kaioken and manages to match him for a moment. However, he realizes there is a limit to kaioken since there is a point that the saiyan grows so powerful that the power level difference caused by the boost makes it so the body can no longer handle thebigger ones. So when before one could use a x25 before it was too big for the body to handle, at a larger base it becomes a lower multiplier after certain point since the raw power added becomes more than the body can handle.
Under a similar logic, you can use Oozaru as a x10 multiplier. Having the same power source as ss but the form of the ape is less capable of holding it in. So instead of handling the 145 millon units, ir strengthens the body to handle up to 10 times the normal amount of power but loses effectiveness as the base form power increases since the raw amount of power added does as well. That way you can use the normal x10 multiplier but when reaching the base form limit of 15 million you get diminishing results from the transformation since it can't surpass in efficiency ss. At that point, unless you transform into ss your power hits a plateau since it can't quite handle the boost. Once the level cap is removed, the Oozaru multiplier would rapidly decline and end up at lower than 3 since that is the proportion the ss transformation use to limit the power of the base form andthe power of the ss boosts, that being the way the body protects the warrior from calling more power than they can handle. The different ss transformations not only change the body when transformed to be able to contain more power but, since the body remembers then the base increases its capacity as well. Which is consistent with the mechanic of the training method of the bulked ss form as expressed in BoD.
This explanation, that of Oozaru being a form for the body to contain 10 times the normal amount if power letting in the same aource as the ss power but losing efficiency as it reaches ss levels since the raw difference becomes too big even for it (and reaching a plateau of about x2 multiplier) has an extra beauty to it. Aesthetically, ss3 looks more apelike so you might make an argument that ss3 taps into the remants of tge great ape mechanism, with a partial transformation since it lacks blutz waves and the tail to amplify them, in order to brute force more power in. Which would explain why it is so inestable, since it is not meant to be.
Under this system, further develop of the oozaru could give a partial transformation boost to ss for a limited in exchange of a lot of strain in the body (ss3 being the version of this for ss2) or it could be that ozaru ss2 would be the perfected form of ss3. Ss great ape would allow you to add the ss boost to your doubled base power and further training to master the form allow you to eventually access double the normal ss boost while being a great ape. Alternatively, training it could be so that either the multiplier grows closer to 3 again or it might be necessary so that it doesn't atrophy even lower than 2.
I always thought it was drawing on latent power.
Oozaru aren't any slower than base Saiyans (Goku states such in his fight against Vegeta). In fact, they might technically(?) be faster, in the way that they take the same time to do a punch as a normal Saiyan and therefore move their much larger fist and arm faster. Still not speedblitzning anyone of their base power level, of course.
Still, looking at canon, x10PL with nearly no discernible speed boost? They are really slow for their PL.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
People here may or may not know, but I have been watching the Dragon Ball Anime from the beginning, when Bulma and Goku first met. I have now finished the "Dragon Ball" portion, and am about to move on to Z.
I have to say that the best fights in the series from my perspective were Tenshinhan vs Jackie Chun and Goku vs Krillin in the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai, and Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo in the 23rd. With Goku vs Jackie Chun in the 21st close behind.
I have to say that the best fights in the series from my perspective were Tenshinhan vs Jackie Chun and Goku vs Krillin in the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai, and Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo in the 23rd. With Goku vs Jackie Chun in the 21st close behind.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Vote Closed.
The winning vote is yes, in a landslide.
The winning vote is yes, in a landslide.
Seers, Sorcery, People, and Other Such Occult Affairs
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Yes, in a landslide.
Brace yourselves. This one takes us through the roller coaster.
Seers, Sorcery, People, and Other Such Occult Affairs
"Come on!" she says, reaching out towards you. "It'll be fun."
You look around -- not that you're sure why, nobody's going to help you here.
Then you cave. After all, why not?
You nod slowly. "Okay..."
Sophie grins. "Great!" She shoots up and hauls you to your feet. You turn bright red as eyes from all over the cafeteria turn towards the crazy girls. You duck your head, following along in Sophie's wake. She tugs you over to her friends. "Everybody, this is Karen. Karen, this is everybody! Say hello, everybody."
"Hi," choruses everybody.
"Hi," you say, looking around the table warily. You and Sophie sit down on the other side of the table from them.
"Introduce yourselves!" says Sophie, grinning.
"I'm Maya," mumbles a girl with long mousy brown hair. She curls in on herself a bit as she says this.
"I'm Jennifer," says a blue-haired girl with a bowl cut sitting next to Maya. She seems quite the contrast to Maya -- staring you right in the eye.
"I'm Gemma," says the last girl, on Jennifer's other side. This one is as blond as you with her hair in pigtails and a pair of round glasses on her face. As soon as she says her name she immediately looks down and starts scribbling in her notebook.
Well, okay. This should be fine. If you have
"Welcome to Sophie's Home for Misfits!" proclaims Sophie, beaming.
You freeze. "...eh?"
"Sophiiiiiiie," groans Jennifer. "Why do you always have to try to scare them off?"
"I'm not!" says Sophie. "It's just true."
"...misfits?" you ask, dreading the answer.
Jennifer rolls her eyes. "I mean, I guess. Sophie's crazy."
The redhead nods. "Yep!"
"Maya's shy." Jennifer pats the little girl on the head.
Maya flinches, waving her arms at the bigger girl. "Eep! Jenny!"
Jennifer ruffles her hair and turns around. "Gemma's always in a book or doodling-"
"Sketching," says Gemma, not looking up.
"-doodling something," says Jennifer. "And I'm rude."
You blink. "Um. Don't people usually not know that?"
"No, I tell them about it."
You frown. "I mean, don't rude people not usually know they're rude?"
"Oh. Yeah, I guess. I mean, I'm not sure why. Everybody seems to tell me so."
You are beginning to suspect that Jennifer is less rude than tactlessly blunt, but you'll have to wait and see.
"Why are you alone?" asks Jennifer, confirming your suspicions with commendable speed.
"I...I, uh..."
Sophie waves you down. "Don't worry about it. Forget it, Jenny." She gives you another one of her grins, and you wonder again if she plans on eating you. "Just you wait, Karen. We're all going to be best friends."
Ancestors help me, I've become friends with the weirdo group.
"I think she thinks you're scary, Sophie," says Maya, playing with her hair.
"Or she just knows what she just got into," says Jennifer, snorting.
"Or you scared her," mutters Gemma, finishing her doodle and scribbling in some notes with furious concentration.
Jennifer shrugs. "Eh."
You are so dead.
* * *
Spending time with your new friends really cuts into your schedule. You did not plan out time for them, and several times your schedule for the year teeters on the brink.
But you're a very stubborn girl.
[Kakara vs. the Disruption: Flawless Victory]
And you get what you want. You don't lose any time at all. You manage to rearrange things well enough that you have all the time in the world.
And you can say...you actually kind of like spending time with the Misfits.
Sophie and Jenny tend towards more physical pursuits, while Maya and Gemma like to spend time indoors. That said, they rarely clash. Everybody plays outside sometimes, and other times you all just stay inside and talk or watch TV (something your parents never let you do when you're home) or even just read together (Gemma's favorite).
And despite the Masque, when you all are outside, you become the unquestioned queen of the playground, outpacing everybody else with ease thanks to the ki you have.
Perspective is a wonderful thing. Even as a human you could make the planet into a new asteroid field with a thought. It's actually harder to hold back. But it gets easier over time, and you could swear your comfort levels while Masqued shoot up as well.
Skill Gained: Masque Affinity [Unpromising]
But more than a simple increase to your comfort in the Masque, you can honestly say...the Misfits are your friends. You like them. Jennifer is loud, outspoken, and very blunt, but she's not mean, she just doesn't think about what she says. Gemma is always in her books or her scribbles, but she's still paying attention, and she likes spending time with you all. Maya is the adorable little sister whom you all close ranks around whenever she needs it. And Sophie is the glue; the one who broke you all out of your shells and brought you together.
You're still finding your place here, but it's nice. Having people to talk to is like having a weight come off your chest, all at once. Like suddenly taking a nice, deep breath.
One night, treating yourself to a night's sleep for the first time in months now that you've started to get a handle on your new schedule, you smile up at the ceiling and close your eyes.
You have friends.
[Mental Health Check: Pass. Nascent Trait "Traumatized" nipped in the bud thanks to friends and the "Socializer" trait]
[Acquaintances Gained: Sophie Schultz, Maya Webley, Jennifer Birch, Gemina Kostos. Rules Screen updated with Relationships rules, Relationships added to Character Sheet]
* * *
One thing you've always wanted to do was get tested for...rather more esoteric...talents. Once you've gotten a handle on your schedule again, you finally get around to it.
The Sorcerer your mother picked to test you is a woman who would look like somebody's mom, if it weren't for her floor-length black robe -- the robe that is apparently standard for Sorcerers, going by Lady Vegeta and this woman.
But despite the robe, the woman smiles cheerfully and bids you to sit. "Welcome, Scion, welcome! I'm glad you're interested in the Art! It's been -- oh, decades, at least -- since once of the High Houses took an interest."
"I...always wanted to know," you say, leaving out your more recent reasons for curiosity. "Thank you for agreeing to see me, Sorceress Veban."
"Oh, call me Celera, dear," she says, dimpling at you. "After all, we'll be seeing a lot of each other this year."
"...Celera," you say, somewhat intimidated by the prospect of addressing an adult by their first name.
* * *
The Seer, on the other hand, is a grouchy old man in a house in the middle of nowhere who grunts at your mother, drags you inside, and immediately grabs your face before twisting you around to look him dead in the eyes.
You squirm, and he jabs you in the shoulder absentmindedly, causing your ki to plummet.
"What did you do?" you yelp, trying and failing to outright tear out of his grip and starting to panic as all of your strength simply fails to come.
"Ki sight and dexterous fingers," he says. "See where it's going and you can dam the flow. Welcome to the Craft. I can teach you." And with that, he lets you go and turns to the fire -- seriously, a wood-burning fire -- on the opposite wall. "Have your mother set up lessons with me starting next week or go bother somebody else. I might have anointed you, but I'm not going to waste time waiting for you."
You blink, gaping. "I- buh- wha?"
He snorts. "What, you thought I was actually testing you? Girl, I Saw this day the moment you were born. I've known you were a Seer from the instant your mother popped you out. Do you imagine there's some element of uncertainty in figuring out who can see the future or not? Pah!" He spits in the fire. You wrinkle your nose. "Not that that's all there is to it," he says, fiddling with some spices. "Fools assume that Bardock's Craft is just the future. No. To be a Seer is to See. See the future, see lies...to See what is." He turns to look at you, and his eyes are completely white. "I blocked your parents' ki and told them they'd name you Scion or be dead right then and there while I raised you the way I saw fit on the day of your birth. I See quite a bit in your future." And then he tosses a handful of spices into the fire.
You collapse, coughing your lungs out as smoke bursts from the flames and fills the room. The last thing you see are his eyes, white and blank and yet intent and focused, and you see you see you See-
* * *
There are dark places, in the space between dreams. We draw close to other worlds in these moments.
You, for the first time, see and know the darkness for what is, and make the conscious choice to step through.
* * *
An endless landscape of perfect mountains and green valleys. The man who has always sat there sits there now, and for the first time you know you will remember him when you wake.
"Jiichan," you say, sitting down across from him.
He smiles at you, eyes crinkling. "Kakara-chan."
You are aware, but somehow distant. You're somewhat...drifty...at the moment. So the first thing you ask is, "Why did you tell me to be careful of Jaffur?"
He flinches, the smile vanishing. "I was...afraid. Afraid and mistaken. I was so sure that there was something wrong. Truthfully, I'm still sure. But I don't think he deserved what happened. I'm...sorry." He sighs, rubbing the back of his head. "I'm always messing things up, it seems."
In this moment, you are able to notice things you usually don't. You're capable of being curious about this moment. "Jiichan...who are you?"
He shakes his head, his smile returning. "Well, that's a question, isn't it? I'll give you a hint..."
You don't feel overwhelming power when he transforms. After all, the legends always said that a god's ki was not to be felt. But there is something...other. Not in the same way as Lady Vegeta's Sorcery. Something mighty and untouchable. Jiichan's hair turns a bright blue, and he is wrapped in a fizzling azure aura.
"There are, in our history, three Saiyans who have achieved this form," he says, looking at you with a gaze that encompasses WISDOM and CAUTION and DUTY. "I'm sure you need no help realizing that I'm not Vegeta."
"You're not Goku, either," you say, staring at him open-mouthed. "We have pictures of him as a Super Saiyan. So...Gohan?"
He smiles at you. "Yes, Kakara-chan. Although please -- call me Jiichan, still."
Your head is clearing slightly. "Am I able to talk to you because I'm a Seer?"
"My assistant tells me so," says Gohan, reaching out and grabbing a cup of tea.
You blink. Where did he get the tea from?
He chuckles at your expression. "I'm a God, Kakara-chan. My afterlife tends to do as I wish."
You nod slowly.
He takes a sip, and as he lowers it, you see his face has turned serious. "Kakara, this doesn't change everything," he says. "Before you can deal with being here, you need to deal with being there. Lady Vegeta is still there, and I think she will be your greatest threat in the days or even years to come. Deal with her, and then handle Jaffur and Vegeta. Then you can worry about coming here and learning about whatever questions you have. But first deal with what is. Do you understand?"
To be blunt, no you don't. You're nine. You're not following him. If he's being unclear by adult terms and maybe assuming a little or a lot about what you've concluded about the significance of this moment, you haven't the faintest idea, because you stopped following him in his first sentence.
So you just nod. He smiles at you.
And then, you feel, it is time to go. Somehow he knows, too. He opens his arms.
"Come here," he says, just like always, and you lunge forward, slamming into his chest and wrapping your arms, legs, and tail around him. And just like always, he tucks you in close to his chest. And just like always, he lowers his face to your hair and whispers, "Always remember that you are loved, Kakara-chan. Your family is here for you, even if nobody else is."
And just like always, you murmur, "I love you too, Jiichan," into his chest.
And, just like always, he holds you there until the world fades away and you return to sleep.
* * *
"I'm sorry, Kakara, but there's just no use," says Celera, sighing. "You don't have the Gift, I'm afraid. I'll be happy to teach you about it, but I'm afraid there's nothing you can do with it."
Your shoulders slump. It had been a hope. With Sorcery at your beck and call, you might have faced Lady Vegeta down on her own terms and broken the Sealing yourself. But it is not to be. If you want the Seal broken, you'll have to seek out the Senzus now.
"It's okay, Celera," you say, smiling at her. "I knew it probably wouldn't happen."
It is faint and smoky, tainted by your means of transport here.
But it is true.
You have Seen it.
* * *
You awaken with the old man standing over you, his eyes still white. You look back at him for a moment, and you know that if you could see them, your eyes would be as white as his.
"I'll talk to Mom," you say as the smoke begins to clear. He nods sharply at you and turns to a window, opening it to help clear the room. You come to your feet, still oddly unstable. "What should I call you?" you ask.
"My name is Carrick Balor," he says, opening a window on the other side of the room. "In company, you will refer to me as 'Master Balor' unless instructed otherwise." He turns to you and gives you a knowing smirk, his eyes back to normal. "But in private...call me 'Sensei.'"
You are not a Sorcerer.
You are a Seer.
Ability Revealed: Seer, Untrained.
A roll of a d100 in character creation, and you rolled a nat 100! F*CKING DICE! THE PLAYERS' BOOTS DON'T REQUIRE TONGUE-WASHING!
* * *
As summer gives way to fall, you find yourself heading out to the Training Hall for yet another momentous bit of training.
You are going to learn to control the Oozaru form.
You're not sure why the idea of this sticks in your head. But especially with Sensei's recent, nascent training, you've learned to take such feelings into account.
He tells you that there has never been a Scion Seer before. And as such, no matter how weird your random urges get, you should follow them.
No, not the one that tells you to smack your annoying little brother.
No, not the one that tells you to smack Lady Vegeta. Although he does sympathize.
No, not the one that tells you to smack the annoying-but-cute boy in your homeroom and then get him to- don't you have your Mother to talk to about these things? How old are you, anyway?!
Maybe not every urge. But this one, he thinks, is a good one to follow.
A cousin of yours has been teaching you about the Oozaru form in the previous months. And tonight is the first night you get to transform. You're excited. And nervous, too. Excited and nervous? Yeah, that works.
You fly to the Hall in less than an instant, smiling at the gate guard until he lets you through. This is going to be fun!
Your cousin, Peapa Dram, is a healer as well as a trained Oozaru. Weird intersection of skills, but it works for you. Peapa is fairly nice, although she never tends to seem too interested in the lessons. It doesn't matter, though. She is nice, and that's all you need. That, and to learn this form. You step out into the Hall, already thinking about how you'll try to keep your head about you when you first transform. Peapa says that it's more about mindlessness than being angry, but you could maybe focus on something really important like-
-Dad. Dad is in the Training Hall. You freeze, and take in the scene. Dad is standing in the Hall with you brother Mato, a hand on your brother's shoulder. "-to remember, it's not just about getting big and strong," he says. "You have to be in control, or there's nothing worthwhile in the transformation. The Oozaru form is a big responsibility, but I'm sure that you..." Dad frowns, shakes his head, and glances over to the Gate -- and then does a double-take.
You stare at each other for a moment. Your mind whirls.
But Dad said he was too busy to teach me and so he had to get Peapa but Mato's here and Dad's telling him about it and that doesn't make sense because Dad said he didn't have time but he's here and that...that means...
You remember seeing a look of mingled rage, pain, and humiliation on Jaffur's face, after his father slapped him. You never thought that you would ever empathize with him.
Dad takes a step towards you, raising his hand. "Kakara-"
You turn sharply and zip off to Peapa's apartment without a word. You're fairly certain you keep the crying silent until you reach the guest room.
Relationship Degraded: Lord Berra Goku is now at Ally [Dedicated], down from Ally [Strong], which is itself down from Ally [Best] from last summer.
Acquaintance Gained: Peapa Dram [Positive]
* * *
That night, as the full moon rises, you look up for the first time in your life.
Peapa is worried about you, and kept trying to get you to put it off, but you refused. Eventually, she caved.
The full moon is so bright and beautiful. You've never seen anything so wonderful.
The world around you is a lot smaller now.
You look down, and see a single littlething glowing gold.
DAD.
You lunge forward, howling with grief, and try to punch it.
You do not succeed.
You had real bad rolls for Oozaru training, so I decided that the consequences of not patching things up with your Dad would come out here, and be the IC reason for why you failed. You were already going to have those consequences; I just decided to package them together since it happened this way in rolls. IC, you are way too disrupted by your deteriorating home situation to be focusing on controlling the mindless rage of the Saiyan race's oldest transformation, and have made no progress.
Ability Revealed: Oozaru, Basic.
Power Level Updated.
Combat (Ki Projection) Skill Gained: Power Ball [Talented]
There's a tl;dr four paragraphs down if you want it.
I've taken a lot of the discussion of Oozaru on board in designing my final paradigm for the form. Here's how it'll work: Oozaru channels the same energy that Super Saiyan does, but in a different way. Therefore, like Super Saiyan, it isn't directly determined by your base power at the time of the transformation. However, the forms are different: as Oozaru gives you a different body to work with, your base strength is not merely irrelevant to how much you boost by, but is in fact replaced by a different base power level for the duration of the transformation. For the ancient Saiyans, this was always higher than their normal base given how weak they were at the time, and thus was taken to be a universally beneficial transformation. However, that's not necessarily the case. In your case, your power level went down in training, by quite a bit.
Oozaru's real strength is not that it boosts strength. What Oozaru does is provide a radically changed body with its own power level -- a power level which has twice the cap of the base strength cap of the Saiyan in question, and can be trained up swiftly. For a base Saiyan, they cap at 30 million. For a basic Super Saiyan, their Oozaru caps at 140 million. For a Full-Power Super Saiyan -- which at this point, you are -- the Oozaru power cap is 750 million -- the total boost that you would receive from turning into a Super Saiyan. In fact, the basic Super Saiyan's cap is only five million off from their SSJ boost. This helps me link Oozaru with SSJ the way the BOD system I'm using tries to do while not making either Oozaru or SSJ unilaterally worthless.
Thus, the reason why the ancient Saiyans used the Oozaru as their "I win" button was because it could be trained up quickly and thus kept ahead of their base forms by a lot. I've also decided that it tends to hit a wall once it's multiplying your normal strength by ten, thereby explaining why the ancient Saiyans thought it was a tenfold boost. But that multiplier drops off under diminishing returns as it approaches the cap, just like normal strength, and once the Saiyan's base strength is at max, Oozaru is "only" a twofold boost. But no ancient Saiyan ever reached that point, and Vegeta never gave a crap about Oozaru once he figured out SSJ, so the myth of x10 remained.
tl;dr: Oozaru replaces your power level with a different base power level, which on the first transformation tends to be higher than your normal base but doesn't have to be and generally isn't, at really high base power levels. This new base can be trained at an accelerated rate, caps at twice your normal base cap, but hits a cap of ten times your normal base when you're still far enough below your normal base cap to allow that. Thus, your Oozaru has a max potential of 750 million units and will train up to that extremely quickly once you can control the form.
I would like to thank in particular @Terrabrand and @Bakkasama, whose ideas were the final inspiration for this model and who both have cookies now because of it. Thanks, you two! You were a great help! And I also thank everybody else who talked it out in the comments, helping me to find what I like to think is a more elegant solution to the rather thorny problem I was originally facing. You all are awesome!
This explanation has been pasted to the Power Levels section of the OP if you want to reference it easily.
I've taken a lot of the discussion of Oozaru on board in designing my final paradigm for the form. Here's how it'll work: Oozaru channels the same energy that Super Saiyan does, but in a different way. Therefore, like Super Saiyan, it isn't directly determined by your base power at the time of the transformation. However, the forms are different: as Oozaru gives you a different body to work with, your base strength is not merely irrelevant to how much you boost by, but is in fact replaced by a different base power level for the duration of the transformation. For the ancient Saiyans, this was always higher than their normal base given how weak they were at the time, and thus was taken to be a universally beneficial transformation. However, that's not necessarily the case. In your case, your power level went down in training, by quite a bit.
Oozaru's real strength is not that it boosts strength. What Oozaru does is provide a radically changed body with its own power level -- a power level which has twice the cap of the base strength cap of the Saiyan in question, and can be trained up swiftly. For a base Saiyan, they cap at 30 million. For a basic Super Saiyan, their Oozaru caps at 140 million. For a Full-Power Super Saiyan -- which at this point, you are -- the Oozaru power cap is 750 million -- the total boost that you would receive from turning into a Super Saiyan. In fact, the basic Super Saiyan's cap is only five million off from their SSJ boost. This helps me link Oozaru with SSJ the way the BOD system I'm using tries to do while not making either Oozaru or SSJ unilaterally worthless.
Thus, the reason why the ancient Saiyans used the Oozaru as their "I win" button was because it could be trained up quickly and thus kept ahead of their base forms by a lot. I've also decided that it tends to hit a wall once it's multiplying your normal strength by ten, thereby explaining why the ancient Saiyans thought it was a tenfold boost. But that multiplier drops off under diminishing returns as it approaches the cap, just like normal strength, and once the Saiyan's base strength is at max, Oozaru is "only" a twofold boost. But no ancient Saiyan ever reached that point, and Vegeta never gave a crap about Oozaru once he figured out SSJ, so the myth of x10 remained.
tl;dr: Oozaru replaces your power level with a different base power level, which on the first transformation tends to be higher than your normal base but doesn't have to be and generally isn't, at really high base power levels. This new base can be trained at an accelerated rate, caps at twice your normal base cap, but hits a cap of ten times your normal base when you're still far enough below your normal base cap to allow that. Thus, your Oozaru has a max potential of 750 million units and will train up to that extremely quickly once you can control the form.
I would like to thank in particular @Terrabrand and @Bakkasama, whose ideas were the final inspiration for this model and who both have cookies now because of it. Thanks, you two! You were a great help! And I also thank everybody else who talked it out in the comments, helping me to find what I like to think is a more elegant solution to the rather thorny problem I was originally facing. You all are awesome!
This explanation has been pasted to the Power Levels section of the OP if you want to reference it easily.
* * *
Fall has come, and it's an overcast fall.
Fitting, considering the mood in your house.
You and Dad aren't speaking. Dad and Mom aren't speaking. You and Mato aren't speaking. Fasha and Endivan are bewildered at the sudden hostility and hurt that's going around the home, and have decided to stop speaking to you since you're at the center of it.
What a jolly good time you're all having.
You've escaped the house, for the day, and headed out to your grandmother's house. Flying up into orbit to make sure you avoid all notice by humans, you zip around the planet and land on her doorstep.
She's already waiting for you outside, casually casting a ki shield to ward off the raging plasma of your re-entry. "Do be careful, Kakara dear, I've just watered the garden."
"Sorry, Grandma."
She then smiles at you and beckons you in towards her, arms wide. You bound forward for a hug. She grunts as you squeeze, perhaps a little bit tighter than you need to. You've been missing hugs lately.
"My, you've gotten strong," she says as the two of you separate. "Not quite all the way to the top, but close. Just a year more should do it, if you focus."
"Thanks," you say, looking down at the ground. You've been hearing a lot about your failure to reach the cap in a year's time lately.
"Come on in and sit down," says the former Lady Goku. You follow her into the house.
Ever since your Grandpa died, you Grandma lives alone in a little house -- like your Sensei, in the middle of nowhere. It's an oddly popular choice for old Saiyans, come to think.
Grandma floats around the place with the kind of grace that comes from knowing how to use one's eyelashes to kill somebody. Given the time you've put into training lately, you can appreciate the skill her understated, efficient movements speak of. She might have let her strength slip a bit since your Dad became the Lord, but she's still a near-peerless warrior.
Oddly enough, though, you think that if the two of you were to fight, hand-to-hand, you'd win on skill.
Eventually, she sets you up in her living room. "So, Kakara, I haven't heard much from my son lately," she says, smiling. "How have things been? What brings you out here?"
You rock back and forth nervously, trying to figure out how to phrase your question. "Grandma, I was wondering...what have you heard? About what happened last summer? I mean, the summer last year, not the one that just finished."
Her smile curdles. "Ah. So that's why you're here." She sighs, leaning back. "I heard that young Lady Dandeer committed heresy, Kakara, is what I heard. I heard that my son stood by and watched it happen -- helped, in fact."
You gulp. "H- heresy?"
Her eyes glitter, and she nods. "Yes, Kakara. Heresy. Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta were gods, and nobody can deny that. I feel no shame for giving them their due. But I do feel shame -- great shame -- in knowing that a member of their faith so spat on the gods' heir. I feel greater shame knowing that my blood was responsible for it succeeding." Her eyes bore into yours. She is not your Grandma anymore. She is the former Lady Goku, the equal and opposite to Lord Yammar Vegeta, the man entitled the Butcher of House Talt thanks to his extermination of them down to the last child following their rebellion. This is the woman who sat opposite that cruel example of royalty with alike dignity and power for over thirty years. And she looks at you with that gaze, and says, "And I am appalled that the rumors say that you were right there, helping them."
You let out a squeak worthy of Maya, and sit absolutely still. Maybe if you don't move, she won't be able to see you.
"Now, Kakara," she says, leaning towards you, "You are only a little girl, and Berra is your father. I understand why you would have gone along with this, and I don't blame you. I am appalled because of how gravely they took advantage of you...if it is true." She cocks her head. "Fool my son may be, but even he would not have willingly involved you in something so dangerous, so I wonder on the truth of these rumors. I am an old woman, but I've been playing these games than for as long as you and your father have lived put together, and something smells off here. So, Kakara, I'm asking you to tell me -- are the rumors true? Did you help in Jaffur's Sealing? Or is my son telling a lie to our world, in order to maintain a unified front in the face of all of this justified outrage?"
[ ] Yes, they're true. (Deceit)
[ ] No, they're not true.
[ ] I...um... (Write In how you will avoid answering. May require Deceit or Communication checks)
THIS VOTE IS NOW CLOSED.
* * *
So. Gamma's an Ancestor Cultist. I'm sure that this will complicate nothing and make everything about the situation perfectly straightforward and easily resolved.
Count the genres! We open with a primary-school friendship anime, with undertones of magical girl thanks to Kakara, dip into supernatural fiction with the Seer test, return to actual, good old-fashioned DBZ-style Shounen for the Oozaru section, and are now in a political thriller. Whiplash, thy name is Poptart.
In this update we introduce Maya, whom I envision as the visual intersection of a shy girl, a particularly fluffy brown mouse, and the living incarnation of the concept of Moe. She is very cute. Her character entry at the moment is basically an extended "squee" written in that half-IC-as-Kakara half-narration style I have going in this quest.
Enjoy the vote! Next update will round out your actions and have another vote, and barring anything truly unforeseen, the update after that will round out the year. And the update after that will be Year 2.
Have fun!
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] No, they're not true.
ChildishChimera
A umbran summon
- Location
- New York
[X] No, they're not true.
- Location
- Somewhere on Earth
Hmm.
First off, no-one can stop the dice tsundere luck, especially you Poptart, secondly, we need to patch up our relationship with dad on year 2.
I know, it's horrible what he did, but he did it for reasons he thought were good, so that's something, right?
First off, no-one can stop the dice tsundere luck, especially you Poptart, secondly, we need to patch up our relationship with dad on year 2.
I know, it's horrible what he did, but he did it for reasons he thought were good, so that's something, right?
DevilsAdvocate
Always follow the golden rule.
[X] No, they're not true.
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Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
I think we should mention Gohan, since she's an ancestor cultist and that would win us her support. We are a Scion and a Seer, so it should be believable and it'll convince her that things are changing.
We'll need support to enact the changes that we want, such as access to the various SSJ variants and God form.
Plus now that we've seen the Oozaru, I want to try and get Oozaru God form.
We'll need support to enact the changes that we want, such as access to the various SSJ variants and God form.
Plus now that we've seen the Oozaru, I want to try and get Oozaru God form.
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- Location
- Too Deep in the Midnight Sea
[X] No, they're not true.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
I would. You need 5 other good saiyans in order to perform the ritual.
Question, just to make things clear. This means that, even if we exhaust ourselves while fighting in our base form then, as long as we are not wounded then the streght of our Oozaru form wouldn't change but what happens if we fight as a super saiyan before going great ape? Does its power lower? I mean, they have the same power source but they are also different transformations so...
[X] No, they're not true.
No Nana! It wasn't like that! I am a good fanatic, just like you! Let me get my pitchfork and torch an