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Dragon Ball: After the End

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[X] 2.0x Get up and fight. Maya can't win this on her own. She needs your help.
-[X] 2.5x At your Masqued maximum.
[X] Not. We wrote in something not involving fighting for the other vote.
-[X] Interpose yourself between the two, bellow "Enough" and send out a shockwave to knock them both back.
--[X] Engage Diplomacy mode: Ask the scout why he's here and go from there in an attempt to talk him down and bring him to the bargining table.
 
Carrnage said:
I'm not sure giving him too much info about berra beforehand is a good idea, but good point about evacing maya.
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I was thinking more along the lines of showing him that we were holding back and that it would be a really good idea to negotiate before our bigger, badder daddy who taught us that teleportation trick and we can silently call for help shows up. We can do it in an instant while yanking Maya out.



Terrabrand said:
Is the voting moratorium over? I think it is.

I won't be around tomorrow, so to heck with it.

[X] Lailoken

You have my voting power, use it Lailoken-ly.
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Oh god, the pressure!

[] Help Maya beat him like a rented mule.

Nobody's listening to us anyway...
 
@Gore17 Uh... isn't our masqued maximum in the hundreds of millons?

I mean, it is not like this alien can tell the difference after the first millon or so, he won't be able to hurt, see or sense us. The only things going that far instead of one or two millon will do is blowing every scouter on the planet and give Maya a heart attack.
 
Indeed. 1M is 10 times the strenght Maya thought we had and is thrice thesvout's. 3 Millon is 10 times the scout's PL if you wanna go overkill.

Our max as Karen is over 500 times the enemy's strength... and he wouldn't be able to sense it. Maya would be able to tell we are over 2000 times the PL we showed her and she has.

I mean, even without masquerade I would be reluctant to show her that much power yet. She is just now gaining some confidence.
 
meh

considering how badly we fucked up our first impression

[] Flee the field with Cabba and Maya in tow. Know when to fold in a fight.

Best thing to do here
 
Bakkasama said:
@Gore17 Uh... isn't our masqued maximum in the hundreds of millons?

I mean, it is not like this alien can tell the difference after the first millon or so, he won't be able to hurt, see or sense us. The only things going that far instead of one or two millon will do is blowing every scouter on the planet and give Maya a heart attack.
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Bakkasama said:
Indeed. 1M is 10 times the strenght Maya thought we had and is thrice thesvout's. 3 Millon is 10 times the scout's PL if you wanna go overkill.

Our max as Karen is over 500 times the enemy's strength... and he wouldn't be able to sense it. Maya would be able to tell we are over 2000 times the PL we showed her and she has.

I mean, even without masquerade I would be reluctant to show her that much power yet. She is just now gaining some confidence.
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It's 300 million exactly. 1000 times the enemies strength. Absolutely no chance of the enemy being able to do anything without our say-so.

The plan, whatever it was, has already been blown. Keeping Maya in the dark isn't particularly helpful, and it's not right for her to be lied to in such a way either. And judging by the high multiplier? Kakara has reached her limit as well: it's time to cut lose.

I'd consider trying to make a more nuanced plan, but right now I'm in no mood, having spent the last few days dealing with shit after shit.
 
Well I feel thoroughly spanked. Long and short of it is, for all the times that I talked about voting for what I felt to be most in character for Kakara, when it came down to the wire and we found a situation that I personally found too overtly disadvantageous... I too faltered and voted for the choice that I personally found to be most beneficial without thinking of the character's own creed. And the sad thing is, I cannot say I wouldn't again.

So I'll be giving this vote a lot of thought before jumping in on it.

On a bit of a less morose note, though: @PoptartProdigy, not to totally change the subject or anything, but what all do the Saiyans recall about Uub? Aside from his participation in the final battle, the whole thing with Maron and the Dragon Balls, and his disappearance, what else would we know about him? His battle style? His philosophy? What general history do we have on him, and what has been lost to time?
 
fictionfan said:
We should never have organized the scouts.
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We should never had never done a lot of stuff, but we did and we can't change it so lets wotk with what we got and move on.
[X] 2.0x Get up and fight. Maya can't win this on her own. She needs your help.
-[X] 2.5x At your Masqued maximum.
[X] Not. We wrote in something not involving fighting for the other vote.
-[X] Interpose yourself between the two, bellow "Enough" and send out a shockwave to knock them both back.
--[X] Engage Diplomacy mode: Ask the scout why he's here and go from there in an attempt to talk him down and bring him to the bargining table.
 
I'm trying to think of a way to express my opinion without insulting someone or re-opening an old argument. Hmm... this thread has become such a minefield :confused:


Well, I'll just say that I found this whole situation funny. Poptart said that this was the result of cognitive dissonance between Kakara and the players, but I don't think thats the core of the problem. No, this is the result of a dissonance between the players.

While there seem to be some people here who truly believe in pacifism, I feel like most of the players do not, and as a result do not truly understand how a pacifist would think. They were seduced by the idea of a pacifist saiyan, but never stopped to consider what would happen when a pacifist entered a battlefield.

In a situation like this one, I think attempting diplomacy just struck most people as silly. Who would actually try to negotiate with a slaver whose in the process of trying to kill our allies? Well, that's what a pacifist would do, but most people just don't think that way.

And then there are people like me who hate the entire concept of pacifism and would never vote the pacifist option on pure principle...

Anyway, maybe its a good thing that this happened. I mean, not for Kakara or the planet, but for us the players. This little crisis has given us a chance to possibly change her foundational trait. When the time comes to reconsider her beliefs, we the players need to have a long frank discussion on what kind of character we want to play as.

Personally, I feel like this should be easy. I think most of us are in agreement that we want to be someone nicer than the normal saiyan blood knight who fights for fun and profit. But we should also try to be someone who can fight when necessary, or this clash between the player instinct to fight and the pacifist instinct not to fight will keep happening. Surely there has to be a middle ground trait we can shoot for right?
 
The Fourth Monado said:
wow, caustic
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The situation is really annoying me.

Yes, we suffered a setback. maybe even a defeat because we acted OOC.

Rather then take advantage of it, it feels like certain people are too busy sulking or gloating rather then rolling with the punches and preparing to use it for character development. And not development in the 'I DUN LIKE HOW EVERYONE VOTED FOR TRAITS' sense, actual development where Kakara can come to an understanding and decide whether or not she still wants to go down that path, or how to improve herself so the same doesn't happen again when the main invasion gets here.

Lets roll with the punches and salvage the situation people! Sure, I would have preferred diplomacy to have won, but it didn't win so lets take advantage of the situation we have and see how this goes!
 
Sucal said:
The situation is really annoying me.

Yes, we suffered a setback. maybe even a defeat because we acted OOC.

Rather then take advantage of it, it feels like certain people are too busy sulking or gloating rather then rolling with the punches and preparing to use it for character development. And not development in the 'I DUN LIKE HOW EVERYONE VOTED FOR TRAITS' sense, actual development where Kakara can come to an understanding and decide whether or not she still wants to go down that path, or how to improve herself so the same doesn't happen again when the main invasion gets here.

Lets roll with the punches and salvage the situation people! Sure, I would have preferred diplomacy to have won, but it didn't win so lets take advantage of the situation we have and see how this goes!
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Honestly, these results aren't even a deal breaker.

As it regards Maya, the situation is still salvageable. Yeah, she got here but I have full trust that Berra knows the perfect BS to feed her. And if not, well, we can bend the truth as much as we can to our liking.
 
pkong said:
While there seem to be some people here who truly believe in pacifism, I feel like most of the players do not, and as a result do not truly understand how a pacifist would think. They were seduced by the idea of a pacifist saiyan, but never stopped to consider what would happen when a pacifist entered a battlefield.
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I don't believe in pacifism. I can respect it, but I don't subscribe to it. I still had no trouble understanding it.
pkong said:
And then there are people like me who hate the entire concept of pacifism and would never vote the pacifist option on pure principle...
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*raises an eyebrow*
pkong said:
Anyway, maybe its a good thing that this happened. I mean, not for Kakara or the planet, but for us the players. This little crisis has given us a chance to possibly change her foundational trait. When the time comes to reconsider her beliefs, we the players need to have a long frank discussion on what kind of character we want to play as.

Personally, I feel like this should be easy. I think most of us are in agreement that we want to be someone nicer than the normal saiyan blood knight who fights for fun and profit. But we should also try to be someone who can fight when necessary, or this clash between the player instinct to fight and the pacifist instinct not to fight will keep happening. Surely there has to be a middle ground trait we can shoot for right?
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I say no. Because that pacifism? It's what makes Kakara such a bright and colourful character to read and play as. To me, that pacifism is a cornerstone of this entire quest. To discard it for convenience would diminish this entire quest for me.
 
Zeus and Hades, people, Kakara doesn't need to do this herself. There is an FPSSJ inbound with an ETA of fractions of a second. Just grab Maya and let him handle it once she's too far away to realize that it's a Garenhulder who's powering up that high. It solves the problem without revealing any exceptional power levels to Maya and certainly without setting off every scouter on the planet. Berra is a master fighter who can put this punk down at a far lower power level than Kakara could, much less the absurd level of twelve million the thread appears to be voting for.

Do none of you think there might be some serious consequences to the rediculous overkill of shooting up to twelve million just to have a conversation with a scout who's at three hundred thousand when we know it's about to be interrupted by an angry, impulsive fighting machine who thinks his baby girl has been endangered?
 
Sucal said:
Hahahahahhahaha

No fucking way.

Have a nice day!
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Rude.

Sucal said:
The situation is really annoying me.

Yes, we suffered a setback. maybe even a defeat because we acted OOC.

Rather then take advantage of it, it feels like certain people are too busy sulking or gloating rather then rolling with the punches and preparing to use it for character development. And not development in the 'I DUN LIKE HOW EVERYONE VOTED FOR TRAITS' sense, actual development where Kakara can come to an understanding and decide whether or not she still wants to go down that path, or how to improve herself so the same doesn't happen again when the main invasion gets here.

Lets roll with the punches and salvage the situation people! Sure, I would have preferred diplomacy to have won, but it didn't win so lets take advantage of the situation we have and see how this goes!
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And this attitude is annoying me. Moving away from pacifism to a new philosophy would be character growth. Actual development isn't something that only happens when you get everything you want.

I only said that we should have a discussion about this. I wonder if some people might have buyers remorse after seeing the full in- character consequences of being a total pacifist (not being able to fight even when its the best option). Now that people understand the full implications of that choice we should re-examine to see if this is what the players really want. And maybe negotiate a compromise so we can all play a character we identify with.

But of course, we can't come to an understanding when people like you only think about your own opinion. How ironic that someone advocating for peaceful diplomacy is so quick to dismiss other peoples opinions.


Gore17 said:
I say no. Because that pacifism? It's what makes Kakara such a bright and colourful character to read and play as. To me, that pacifism is a cornerstone of this entire quest. To discard it for convenience would diminish this entire quest for me.
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This is your opinion, but I disagree. I think she can be a bright, colorful character regardless and pacifism is in no way a cornerstone of the game. Heck, this was the first time it even became an issue.

I don't want to discard it for convenience, or because of this one setback. I want to discard it because I don't want to play a character like this. I don't find it fun. Personally I think the type of total pacifism as described here is moral cowardice and I can't respect a person who would subscribe to it.

Now of course if I get outvoted then so be it, thats how a democratic quest is done. But I want to take this chance to reevaluate and press my point again. Especially now that we have such a clear example of what voting for such a fundamental character trait means for our character.

P.S. Quite aside from my personal philosophies, a pacifist DBZ quest is just weird. It's like playing a Yu-gi-oh quest where the MC decides he hates card games and joins the chess club. Sure you could do it, but it kind of defeats the point of the setting.
 
pkong said:
This is your opinion, but I disagree. I think she can be a bright, colorful character regardless and pacifism is in no way a cornerstone of the game. Heck, this was the first time it even became an issue.

I don't want to discard it for convenience, or because of this one setback. I want to discard it because I don't want to play a character like this. I don't find it fun. Personally I think the type of total pacifism as described here is moral cowardice and I can't respect a person who would subscribe to it.

Now of course if I get outvoted then so be it, thats how a democratic quest is done. But I want to take this chance to reevaluate and press my point again. Especially now that we have such a clear example of what voting for such a fundamental character trait means for our character.

P.S. Quite aside from my personal philosophies, a pacifist DBZ quest is just weird. It's like playing a Yu-gi-oh quest where the MC decides he hates card games and joins the chess club. Sure you could do it, but it kind of defeats the point of the setting.
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Except her pacifism has shaped her personality and skillset. Pacifist is a foundational trait for a reason, afterall.

And to me, it looked like you were opposed to it because it made things it made things easier, and didn't challenge the players. But that's what makes it fun. And an Absolute Pacifist he keeps to their beliefs no matter what is moral courage, not moral cowardice. Besides, Kakara isn't an absolute pacifist: she is "no violence unless there's no other choice". If violence is indeed the only solution? She'll do it, but not before ensuring that is indeed the case.

I believe I once read a story like that. And characters not fitting into a setting tends to be fun and engaging.
 
Gore17 said:
Except her pacifism has shaped her personality and skillset. Pacifist is a foundational trait for a reason, afterall.

And to me, it looked like you were opposed to it because it made things it made things easier, and didn't challenge the players. But that's what makes it fun. And an Absolute Pacifist he keeps to their beliefs no matter what is moral courage, not moral cowardice. Besides, Kakara isn't an absolute pacifist: she is "no violence unless there's no other choice". If violence is indeed the only solution? She'll do it, but not before ensuring that is indeed the case.

I believe I once read a story like that. And characters not fitting into a setting tends to be fun and engaging.
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Yet in a world like Dragon Ball, Trying to use diplomacy with a few characters, might end up badly for us... And I mean we might get a surprise punch to the face trying to even use it... Especially in the future...

That and most of our diplo power comes from the fact that Kakara is nobility and that she is the most powerful sayian on the planet. Neither of which might mean anything in the coming days.
 
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NegativeJ said:
Yet in a world like Dragon Ball, Trying to use diplomacy with a few characters, might end up badly for us... And I mean we might get surprise punch to the face trying to even use it... Especially in the future...

That and most of our diplo power comes from the fact that Kakara is nobility and that she is the most powerful sayian on the planet. Neither of which might mean anything in the coming days.
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In the coming days, everybody is going to hate her for alerting the scouts, and through them the invasion force, to the fact that the planet has ki users with power levels in excess of twelve million for absolutely no good reason.
 
Lailoken said:
In the coming days, everybody is going to hate her for alerting the scouts, and through them the invasion force, to the fact that the planet has ki users with power levels in excess of twelve million for absolutely no good reason.
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So more reasons to abandon the pacifist ship and swim onto the S.S. Goku Violence Party.
 
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[X] Flee the field with Cabba and Maya in tow. Know when to fold in a fight.

We aee too pacafist to fight so just run away like a.
 
[] 2.0x Get up and fight. Maya can't win this on her own. She needs your help.
-[] 2.5x At your Masqued maximum.
[] Not. We wrote in something not involving fighting for the other vote.
-[] Interpose yourself between the two, bellow "Enough" and send out a shockwave to knock them both back.
--[] Engage Diplomacy mode: Ask the scout why he's here and go from there in an attempt to talk him down and bring him to the bargining table.
 
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