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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Reread the Saga of Endivan. It would make sense for Jaffur to study Endivan, considering it was apparently the premier example of a normal Saiyan defeating a Super Saiyan, which would've tied in with his goal of killing his dad.

Although if Endivan did use that style, it begs the question of how he used that and Gohan style. The latter penalises Ki Projection involving dense concentrations of power, whereas Jaffur's style seems to be all about that. It should be possible to use both, but why would he go through all that effort?

Not sure if I said it already, but I really like all the effort you've put into world building/history for this quest @PoptartProdigy
Really adds to the immersion. :)
 
By the way @Sucal does your plan still have Mom teaching us flight? Because as others have mentioned we don't know how skilled she actually is at that and if the reason is spending time with her then she could always help with our grades... I mean, it would be overkill given how smart Kakara is but if it is about spending time together...
 
Before I start, let me just say how awesome our illustrious author is for creating such a rich and detailed world. The more I learn about it, the more I want to know. Top notch world building, really top notch!

Take this for example:

PoptartProdigy said:
Tracking they're not great at, but they can erase memories easily enough if you let them cast.
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Now I, like many others, probably figured that "magic is magic", and mentally threw the Garenhulden Saiyans' magic capabilities into the category of "as seen in the canon series, but with extra plot-necessary bonus feats."

But from this post, you can tell that it's not that way at all. Case in point? Tracking magic.

One of the biggest feats of magic in the dragonball universe, tracking magic was not only a salient plot point in the Baba's Tournament storyline, but buku powerful too. It not only could find something shielded/hidden from normal detection and give you a direction and distance, but it also even gave you a top-down view of the area around it too.

Now that seems like an extremely useful skill, and thus not something likely to be cast aside or forgotten about. I mean yeah, you do have seers, but... well, when eating macaroni and cheese you don't throw away all of your forks, just because you happen to have a spoon handy to eat the cheesy goodness with. (Okay... don't know where that food analogy just came from. Maybe I'm just hungry?)

But as that's not the case, then it's probably a safe assumption that a good portion of the magic was lost.

So since we can't rely on what has come before, we have to look at what we do know about Saiyan magic. And looking at what we've seen in the quest, there is only one conclusion you can come to:

In this universe, saiyan magic is almost exclusively focused on concealment and constraint.

I mean think about it. Barriers to hide power levels, masques to disguise themselves as humans, magic neuralizers even to Men-in-Black away those pesky memories about aliens. Then you have seals to hide and bind power levels- (the masques given to children too young to be trusted to moderate themselves come to mind.)

All in all, it paints a picture of a society that is so scared of being discovered that they've developed their magical talents to hide away to the detriment of everything else magical... something that makes sense if you go back to the backstory and see that that's most likely what they would be like.

Or as I said above: top notch world building!

(But of course I could be wrong and the above is me jumping to conclusions as usual.)
 
ElleonXan said:
One of the biggest feats of magic in the dragonball universe, tracking magic was not only a salient plot point in the Baba's Tournament storyline, but buku powerful too. It not only could find something shielded/hidden from normal detection and give you a direction and distance, but it also even gave you a top-down view of the area around it too.
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Hmm I've been partially thinking of Seers based off of Baba.

EDIT: Guys, we should really add the use of Seers and Sorcerors to the plan. This is a really important thing to add and our use of them in the crisis will make a huge difference politically when we and Jaffur reveal our abilities.

Plus, Seers are meant for this kind of thing.
 
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I idly wonder what Berra's reaction is going to be to learning that his daughter, the Scion of Goku and his heir, is choosing the "Sacrifice Your Life Force" style. You know, named after its creator, who killed himself with it.

Also, they're eventually going to wonder why we're not beginning to train Multiform.
 
ChronOblivion said:
I idly wonder what Berra's reaction is going to be to learning that his daughter, the Scion of Goku and his heir, is choosing the "Sacrifice Your Life Force" style. You know, named after its creator, who killed himself with it.

Also, they're eventually going to wonder why we're not beginning to train Multiform.
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Or they might see us begin to train it as a formal part of the style and drastically underestimate our skill with it. Just as learning the techniques can help you learn the style, learning the style can teach you the techniques
 
I hate both plans, so I lose either way.

But my advice? Compromise. Remember: a good compromise is when eveyone walks away unhappy.
 
ChronOblivion said:
I idly wonder what Berra's reaction is going to be to learning that his daughter, the Scion of Goku and his heir, is choosing the "Sacrifice Your Life Force" style. You know, named after its creator, who killed himself with it.

Also, they're eventually going to wonder why we're not beginning to train Multiform.
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Tien is honored as a veritable saint for his actions, and we can explain our Monkey->Lifeforce to spare plan.

And we can reveal our exceptional learning skill by getting Multiform to 'Talented' (or better) when we see it the first time (as part of learning Tien style).

That said, I really think DBB is on the right track with his criticisms of learning Tien Style this year.
 
I'd really feel much better about Plan Sucal if it had Multiform Training, more than anything else. With the other bonuses, it will almost certainly pay for itself by next year.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
I'd really feel much better about Plan Sucal if it had Multiform Training, more than anything else. With the other bonuses, it will almost certainly pay for itself by next year.
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That I concur with. Any action that increases the number of actions that the quest is basically paying us for. If Sucal wins, which it looks like it will, I'm heavily supporting your plans for Multiform. It'll get us to Exceptional, and start the "Extraordinary Impetus" that will unlock Elite levels.

Do you have any ideas on what you want Endgame Kakara to look like? Sounds like at least Legendary Multiform and Mastered Tien's Style.
 
ChronOblivion said:
That I concur with. Any action that increases the number of actions that the quest is basically paying us for. If Sucal wins, which it looks like it will, I'm heavily supporting your plans for Multiform. It'll get us to Exceptional, and start the "Extraordinary Impetus" that will unlock Elite levels.

Do you have any ideas on what you want Endgame Kakara to look like? Sounds like at least Legendary Multiform and Mastered Tien's Style.
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Perfect Multiform means we'll be flying around with 4 bodies at full strength (5 at Legendary, unless there's a Legendary perk better than another body, like PM is). It also means we'll be firing off Tien's Shin Kihoko without much concern for the deleterious side-effects; so long as one body rolls well or doesn't use it, that'll be the body we keep! We're hoping to use Tien's Four Witches Technique pretty much entirely because it's not penalised by Pacifist, and whilst I think I glibly earlier said something along the lines of "four bodies is better at grappling at four arms" having both is ideal. So, we'll be using two bodies to grapple, two bodies to fire Shin Kihokos.

Other than that, in my ideal world we'd research Ki Invisibility (which even in fights pumping out our full power level will mean a huge bonus to hand-to-hand, since the opponent won't be able to see our punches) and Ki suppression so we aren't putting out huge amounts of ki whilst fighting. So basically, all of the above except we're almost completely undetectable whilst we beat people up. That's more of a far-off dream though.

EDIT: Oh, and we use Perfect Multiform to improve Tien Style to Master, and altering it for future generations so that it also provides a bonus to Team Fighting. Because you're always fighting in a team!
 
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Gore17 said:
Kakara being social, popular and famed for doplomacy and non-violdnt solutions.
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Ah, I was thinking purely in terms of combat - I agree with this as a ultimate goal. I'll probably ease up on the combat focus when we get PM; Power Levels aside, when you're strong enough compared to everyone else getting even stronger won't really help.

Except for those pesky Outside-Context problems, I guess. Or dealing with Jaffur.
 
ChronOblivion said:
Do you have any ideas on what you want Endgame Kakara to look like? Sounds like at least Legendary Multiform and Mastered Tien's Style.
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To me it looks like Kakara having Godlike ki control to the point of being a reality warper. Also has awesome communication skills and Jaffur respect us and is quite willing to handle any fighting that might actually need doing, but because of our awesome communication skills and the ability to seer problems before they start it rarely needs doing.
 
fictionfan said:
To me it looks like Kakara having Godlike ki control to the point of being a reality warper. Also has awesome communication skills and Jaffur respect us and is quite willing to handle any fighting that might actually need doing, but because of our awesome communication skills and the ability to seer problems before they start it rarely needs doing.
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"Reality Warper" is definitely what we should be going for, and Jaffur's sorcery should be the cornerstone of his Endgame Build. Looking long term, taking what few hints we know about The Enemy, I'm extremely worried. He references "the Void", and talks about all fading to nothingness, and it sounds like he is conceptually bound to Entropy/Death, in both their unkillable and all powerful natures. We need more than mere power to kill this guy, we need some Golden Gun that can reach him on his level.
 
ChronOblivion said:
"Reality Warper" is definitely what we should be going for, and Jaffur's sorcery should be the cornerstone of his Endgame Build. Looking long term, taking what few hints we know about The Enemy, I'm extremely worried. He references "the Void", and talks about all fading to nothingness, and it sounds like he is conceptually bound to Entropy/Death, in both their unkillable and all powerful natures. We need more than mere power to kill this guy, we need some Golden Gun that can reach him on his level.
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It's called the spirit bomb, which can be bullshit at the elite level.

Also considering working on a mk6 version of the plan, not sure. Any changes will alienate someone
 
@Sucal, sorry you had a rough day. Hope things are a bit better now.


I don't think my scouting subplan offends anyone; it doesn't spend any actions or do anything risky, and I haven't heard anyone object to it. I know you're not a fan of scouting, but if you're graciously putting it in for those of us who are, what's the harm in copy-pasting in a couple extra lines?

We're all on the same team, right? We want Kakara to do well, do good, and have interesting adventures. That's all I'm going for here.

-[] Develop a plan that involves minimal loss of life, for the sake of gaining information (and your personal ethics). You (and Dad) can use Instant Transmission and/or Solar Flare to move in and incapacitate the scouts, while the rest of the group makes sure no one gets away or gets off a message.
-[] This probably isn't Plan A, especially before you have an idea of how easily the enemy can sense you or send back info. But it's worth having a plan at hand in case the opportunity presents itself. (And boy, do you hope it does.)
 
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