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We don't even know that the Senzu were what we picked up. We can afford to be a bit patient. We now know the area, so even if we fail we'll have a bonus to searching again next year, and we can go active then if we really want to.
You're assuming that they're stationary, and not moving around. Even if this is them now, there's no guarantee they'll be in the area next year, or even next month.
Then we really need to do active sense to find this rebellious Super Saiyan because nothing else comes close to producing enough power that it leaks through the seals.
Only if the Wards are as powerful as the ones at the Training Grounds. If they're moving around, the wards could be considerably weaker.
 
You're assuming that they're stationary, and not moving around. Even if this is them now, there's no guarantee they'll be in the area next year, or even next month.

Only if the Wards are as powerful as the ones at the Training Grounds. If they're moving around, the wards could be considerably weaker.

You're assuming that it's them at all.

If it is them, there's a good chance that it's a decoy or a lure. There's probably a reason that they haven't been found despite Berra and his entire retinue undoubtedly pinging every inch of the entire continent with the full force of a mastered Super-Saiyan.

If they're moving around that makes going loud worse. You don't hunt a sub by using active sonar.
 
[ ] Keep listening with passive senses. Opposed check with no bonus and possible distance penalties depending on where they are, but they won't know you're looking.
[ ] Things that are.

Is there any chance with active scanning that someone else finds th Senzu's through us? Normally I'd be for active, seeing as how they should be friendly to us, but I can't help but think there's a potential downside I'm missing.
Things that are because that's what told us Jaffur's still awake, and it seems more useful than were/will be.

Unless you have somebody stalking you, nobody is going to find a single active ping unusual unless they're trying to sneak around. It means you're looking for something, and Dad'll probably ask about it later (when you send out a ping, your entire society feels it), but that's an easy problem to have (i.e., I won't even bother to make a vote for it; I'll just make up a plausible excuse).



VOTES ARE NOW OPEN.

I'M GOING TO SLEEP NOW.

GOODNIGHT.
*thunk*
 
You're assuming that it's them at all.

If it is them, there's a good chance that it's a decoy or a lure. There's probably a reason that they haven't been found despite Berra and his entire retinue undoubtedly pinging every inch of the entire continent with the full force of a mastered Super-Saiyan.

If they're moving around that makes going loud worse. You don't hunt a sub by using active sonar.
I'm thinking "we're very unlikely to find them, let's knock on the door and hope they're willing to let us in and listen" actually.
 
I'm thinking "we're very unlikely to find them, let's knock on the door and hope they're willing to let us in and listen" actually.

They're in rebellion. Not violent rebellion, yet, but rebellion nonetheless. They personally witnessed first-hand what happened to the last rebels. They are not going to be happy to see her. No matter how nice or sympathetic she might seem, she is family and heir-apparent of the enemy and the stakes are simply too high. Considering that their head already tried to ascend and that any rebellion is likely to include ascensions they are quite possibly already way past the point of no return. The result of even the slightest hint that they even might have been detected by a mastered Super-Saiyan who is obviously hunting for them is going to be abject panic. I really don't want to find out what an entire house and a masterful magician who have had years to prepare do when they suddenly panic and have a clear bead on the provocateur.

Much better to get a read on the situation without them knowing.
 
Ohwait!

Forgot something.

*ahem*

As I have mentioned in a few places before, I at the start of this quest generated a few "outside context crises" that will occur at determined points in the quest with absolutely no influence from player action. These would be things like Dragon Ball's arc villains, or something exciting happening in Garenhuld's human world. Something that you can't prepare for and is in no way triggered by your actions. It just happens, and you have to deal with as it comes. Additionally, I sometimes set problems that are within player context on resolution timers that eventually run out, whereupon they will turn over and go proactive unless the players discover and act upon them by investigation, happenstance, or allied action. These would be things like Dr. Gero, who was a result of Goku's actions, lived on Earth, and was always within Super Saiyan Goku's reach, but for one reason or another remained undetected or unfought until he began to present a serious threat.

I have mentioned these things before, but I can't recall if I ever said them all at once, in this thread, so here's the notice! It'll be going up on the OP as well; it's a fairly significant thing that should be accessible to anybody entering the quest (and we get new people every day!). I meant to paste this notice on the end of the update, but forgot. Sorry about that!

Once again, this is going on the OP, if you want to reference it ever.
 
They're in rebellion. Not violent rebellion, yet, but rebellion nonetheless. They personally witnessed first-hand what happened to the last rebels. They are not going to be happy to see her. No matter how nice or sympathetic she might seem, she is family and heir-apparent of the enemy and the stakes are simply too high. Considering that their head already tried to ascend and that any rebellion is likely to include ascensions they are quite possibly already way past the point of no return. The result of even the slightest hint that they even might have been detected by a mastered Super-Saiyan who is obviously hunting for them is going to be abject panic. I really don't want to find out what an entire house and a masterful magician who have had years to prepare do when they suddenly panic and have a clear bead on the provocateur.
They saw Kakara try to save Jaffur, I doubt they're going to assume she's an enemy now.
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.

[X] Things that are.

I want to see if we can get into Jaffur's head/dreams and try to communicate with him, the poor guy has been alone with no one but Jaron to talk to for over a year by now.
 
They saw Kakara try to save Jaffur, I doubt they're going to assume she's an enemy now.
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.

[X] Things that are.

I want to see if we can get into Jaffur's head/dreams and try to communicate with him, the poor guy has been alone with no one but Jaron to talk to for over a year by now.

Are they going to bet everyone they have ever known and loved being systematically tortured to death on an eight-year-old's behavior in the heat of the moment years ago? While she is actively hunting them down?

Try, just try, to look at it from their perspective. They don't know Kakara personally. The one who knows her best spent a single evening with her years ago when they were both children. They do know that she is family of, a representative of, and heir to the institution which has made it very clear that it will not tolerate rebellion nor other Super-Saiyans. She doesn't even need to be anything less than fully on their side to cause tremendous harm. All it takes is for her tongue to be the slightest bit too loose. Not even that considering how her father proved that he will read her mind.

Remember Talt? They sure do. They were there. -and the guy who did it is still out there.
 
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The thing we picked up is definitely the Senzus. The update says we're doing the Senzu event chain so finding them is going to lead to stuff with them.
 
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.
[X] Things that are.
 
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.

[X] Things that are.


Are they going to bet everyone they have ever known and loved being systematically tortured to death on an eight-year-old's behavior in the heat of the moment years ago? While she is actively hunting them down?

Try, just try, to look at it from their perspective. They don't know Kakara personally. The one who knows her best spent a single evening with her years ago when they were both children. They do know that she is family of, a representative of, and heir to the institution which has made it very clear that it will not tolerate rebellion nor other Super-Saiyans. She doesn't even need to be anything less than fully on their side to cause tremendous harm. All it takes is for her tongue to be the slightest bit too loose. Not even that considering how her father proved that he will read her mind.

Remember Talt? They sure do. They were there. -and the guy who did it is still out there.
The problem with the talts is that that was Vegeta after they killed his dad and the entire house tried to kill him in rebellion. These are radically different circumstances.
 
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.

[X] Things that were.
 
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.

[X] Things that are.
 
You're assuming that they're stationary, and not moving around. Even if this is them now, there's no guarantee they'll be in the area next year, or even next month.
They are likely to be stationary. This is the área their hall was and if they bothered to erase its location from everyone's minds there is Little point to keep moving around.
They are wielding magic powerful enough to unilaterally erase the memories of an entire planet. They are in possession of the one and only space ship on the planet. At least a few of them must know Instant Transmission, which has an interstellar range if you know where you're going. They must have spent the years preparing some sort of contingency plan which it would probably be very bad to trigger. We don't even know if what we're picking up is the Senzu at all, which means we might set them off without gaining any information about them, or even awaken something worse. At the very least, it may well tell others that we are looking for them or lead them to the Senzu, and we probably don't want anybody else to know just yet.

If pinging were a good idea we would have just spend this whole time grid-searching with active kidar. I'm sure that lots of other people already have.

There are a few things you are failing to consider, I think:

As the year spins towards its end, you find yourself flying through the clouds, panning out across the land with your senses. You're looking for House Senzu.

You've been looking all year, but they've hid really well. Despite a year's searching, you haven't found a trace of them. Their Sorcerer must be really talented.

You're just about to give up when you...do you feel something?

You're combing through the continent that Senzu Hall is know to be located in, even if their wards have erased their exact location from everybody's minds. You've been doing this, usually staying above the clouds to stay out of sight, about once a month at irregular intervals. And as always, your ki is suppressed.

And for the first time since you started, you think you feel something. Right...

...no, it's gone. You grumble in annoyance. That leaves you in a pickle. You could just keep listening, but if you really wanted to, you could send out a pulse of ki and listen to the "echoes." Like sonar, that's one way of gaining a lot of detail very quickly. If they are suppressing imperfectly -- if they're expressing any power at all -- you'll find them. But like sonar, active pings for ki sense are a lot more conspicuous. They'll know you've found them, if they're out there.

You hover in place for a moment, torn by indecision.

We are using our ki sense to look for them. Considering that there are ki supression wards on individual homes, it is unlikely that we sensed a "normal" amount of power level, or we wouldn't have sensed them at all, which means they re probably training right now and we would have to wait for a similar time to sense them again. Now, usually a subtler approach is recommended but if we wait for next turn then they would have had two years to prepare and would have gathered momentum motivation wise to move against the clans. We should have gone looking for them in the first turn in my opinión and giving them more time to do whatever they are planning is more likely to bite us in the tail.

In later posts you express concern about these guys being the Senzu. If they aren't then we should be able to sense them easily given our skills which makes it concerning that we can't and is even more reason to investigate. If they are the Senzu then it is unlikely to be a decoy since they would have to have put several ki supression wards and set on them a spell to fake a ki signature in order to catch the attention of Random Saiyan Number 1 who is looking for them with no way to know if they would actually be worth the effort of setting a trap for. Furthermore, if we do find them then we can IT there or fly there before they can flee since, even if some probably know IT it is unlikely the whole clan can escape with it. So you either get them to make a stand or some of them flee. If the first then we can talk to them using both our talented level communication and all the traits that boost it; if they have some sorcery contingency against super saiyans then they either would have used it already or they are working on it, in which case giving them more time to perfect it would be a bad idea. If some try to flee (which is a bad idea since it would allow other saiyans to sense them since you can't IT to some place you can't locate with ki senses and there is no inhabited system close enough for them to sense and go off world) then the fact that we would not move against those who can't should help convince them we come in peace.

While they saw the extermination of House Talt and they would be naturally wary of retaliation, that will not change in a year and th further they continue this rebellion the more likely they are to end like them. The only ways you could convince them that there is no way for us to turn them in are two; for us to openly move against Lady Vegeta and oppose the sealing (which I don't think we were planning to do next year and for which we were planning to convince the Senzu sorcerer to help us with first in case we couldn't convince Dandeer to do it first) or to approach them slowly enough that they see we won't sell them in but which would require for them to notice us first, which could also set them off into fleeing.

Finally, there is the fact of the likeness of success:

[ ] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.
[ ] Keep listening with passive senses. Opposed check with no bonus and possible distance penalties depending on where they are, but they won't know you're looking.

So, the way I see it your argument is that even if we fail, since they won't know we are looking we could try again next year without them putting additional safeties. It is an aproach of getting more chances to try, maybe even get a slight bonus since we know aproximately which part of the continent to search. However, the longer we take to resolve this the worse the situation with Senzu will getit will likely be harder to convince them we come in peace the longer we take (unless we reveal the truth of the sealing before that), we might get a penalti to sense them due to distance and the ping is far more likely to find them now since not only are we Exceptional at sensing but we would get a massive bonus to finding them.

All in all, I think that the advantages of finding them now outweight the ones of waiting, that the chances of finding them now a good enough to do so and that the propposed risks are, if anything, going to get worse if we wait. Thus:

[x] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.


[x] Things that are.

Things that will be would also be useful to detect future thrats but there are so many players we already know that anything we learn about them would be helpful to decide how to deal with them, without spending actions to find out about it.
 
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.

[X] Things that were.

I think we should try and figure out who the Enemy who killed all the sayin gods is
 
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I think we should try and figure out who the Enemy who killed all the sayin gods is

No way of doing that other than asking those directly involved and about that...

Gohan will likely tell us eventually.

Quoted for truth. He did imply we weren't ready for that.

He takes a sip, and as he lowers it, you see his face has turned serious. "Kakara, this doesn't change everything," he says. "Before you can deal with being here, you need to deal with being there. Lady Vegeta is still there, and I think she will be your greatest threat in the days or even years to come. Deal with her, and then handle Jaffur and Vegeta. Then you can worry about coming here and learning about whatever questions you have. But first deal with what is. Do you understand?"

Basically, solve the home situation before dealing with existential crisis. Finding out about the enemy falls in that category since, until we solve this whole saiyan society/sucession crisis, there is basically nothing we could do with that information since it would only distract us from what is happening now, so Gohan is unlikely to tell us about it. Unless, you know, we go super saiyan 2 and start down the timer for it coming to Garenhuld, which I hope everyone realizes is a bad idea right now.
 
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.

Part of me wants to go passive here, but I agree with the multiple people pointing out that we don't want to let this situation fester too long.

[X] Things that are.

To me this seems like the easiest one to grasp first, since there's not the disorientation of "when was/will be this?", and it's a handy info-gathering tool.
 
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.

[X] Things that are.
 
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.

[X] Things that are.

No point in looking at things we can no longer affect (past) or things which we can't change (future), so let's get information we can use. And if we end up in Jaron/Jaffur's head again by some chance, all the better! We can talk to Jaffur as Kakara and Jaron (regularly) as Karen.

As for active ping, well, let's ring the doorbell. We want to find them, and if they are smart, they'll want us (or at least a Goku) to be the one to find them. Worst case, I believe that if we ping and can't localize them, we'll find a single Senzu IT'ing near us sometime soon.

And if they have SSJ clan members, well, that'll be sad. I hope they don't.
 
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.

[X] Things that are.
 
[X] Send out an active ping. You can chase them down if you need to. Opposed check of your Ki Sense vs. their Ki Control with a massive bonus for you, strict pass/fail results. They know that you're looking either way.

[X] Things that are.
 
[X] Keep listening with passive senses. Opposed check with no bonus and possible distance penalties depending on where they are, but they won't know you're looking.
[x} Things that were.
 
No point in looking at things we can no longer affect (past) or things which we can't change (future), so let's get information we can use. And if we end up in Jaron/Jaffur's head again by some chance, all the better! We can talk to Jaffur as Kakara and Jaron (regularly) as Karen.

To be fair, I have mentioned previously that you can change what you see in futuresight, it just requires extreme care, knowledge of the butterfly effect and the ability to account for it, and most likely a huge amount of scrying on all the events leading up to the moment you're trying to change. Self-fulfilling prophecies are definitely a thing, but they can be averted.
 
[X] Keep listening with passive senses. Opposed check with no bonus and possible distance penalties depending on where they are, but they won't know you're looking.
[X] Things that are.
 
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