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... @PoptartProdigy, did both visions look like they were showing the same fleet?

If we have two visions of an invasion fleet heading for Namek, that doesn't mean either of them is necessarily wrong. It might just mean that the one fleet attacks - apparently rushed, given the complaints about too little time - gets its ass handed to it, and a second fleet follows up on the greater-than-expected resistance.
 
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'if a seer's actions', hmm? Wonder what the odds are that an organization as large as the New Cold Empire employs at least one of those. Probably pretty high, relative to the rarity of seers at least.
 
... @PoptartProdigy, did both visions look like they were showing the same fleet?

If we have two visions of an invasion fleet heading for Namek, that doesn't mean either of them is necessarily wrong. It might just mean that the one fleet attacks - apparently rushed, given the complaints about too little time - gets its ass handed to it, and a second fleet follows up on the greater-than-expected resistance.
Or the other way around

One takes their time, goes in, is stalemated, and the other rushes in to reenforce the siege
 
Or the other way around

One takes their time, goes in, is stalemated, and the other rushes in to reenforce the siege
Timeline is wrong for that- the visions are time stamped which means we know assuming they're accurate we have 'early, rushed invasion' or 'later, prepared invasion' as the options on the table, regardless of if we assume they're mutually exclusive.
 
Look, our precog isn't working here. I'd rather not double down on it and hope we can break through; obviously, it's tractable with enough effort and skill, but whether we can bring that to bear is very much up in the air.

[] No, do not spend the vision. All of this, if all goes to plan, comes down to a duel between you and the royal. You need to be at peak form for that, and that demands advantages.
Not sure I agree. Our precog has significantly narrowed down the probability space.

The fleet will pass through Tamrii. It will arrive either soon (sooner than we predicted) or at roughly the appointed time. It will be commanded either by Haila (as we hoped) or by one of his much stronger brothers (which would be a disaster). And we have gotten a specific warning against assaulting the commander while the fleet rests at Tamrii.

Knowing in advance whether we face Haila or his brother could make a huge difference. So could knowing whether the invasion fleet is coming early or late.

im inclined to not use another vision here.

i very much doubt we can avoid the coming fight by using it.

and its efficacy is in doubt as well.
Knowing whether we are about to be attacked in seven months by an overwhelmingly powerful Arcosian that the Namekians would be obliged to flee, or in eleven months by a less powerful Arcosian that we could defend them against, sounds like it might be a good use of our time.

... @PoptartProdigy, did both visions look like they were showing the same fleet?

If we have two visions of an invasion fleet heading for Namek, that doesn't mean either of them is necessarily wrong. It might just mean that the one fleet attacks - apparently rushed, given the complaints about too little time - gets its ass handed to it, and a second fleet follows up on the greater-than-expected resistance.
Oooh, that's a fair point.

Timeline is wrong for that- the visions are time stamped which means we know assuming they're accurate we have 'early, rushed invasion' or 'later, prepared invasion' as the options on the table, regardless of if we assume they're mutually exclusive.
On the other hand, that is ALSO a fair point.

Of course, if there are TWO fleets and TWO hugely powerful pissed off Arcosians coming for us, it is all the more imperative that we know as soon as possible.
 
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I'll vote no. I'm pretty sure we can extrapolate from what we've got.
I believe that the 1 year arrival is set in stone, so the other possibilities must confirm around that. The first vision is probably where we get caught and the fleet rushes to New Namek, but break down for a few months due to rushing. The second is us not getting caught, and thus is the baseline. The third is us attempting a preemptive strike/assassination. I recomend going for the first one.
 
I'll vote no. I'm pretty sure we can extrapolate from what we've got.
I believe that the 1 year arrival is set in stone, so the other possibilities must confirm around that. The first vision is probably where we get caught and the fleet rushes to New Namek, but break down for a few months due to rushing. The second is us not getting caught, and thus is the baseline. The third is us attempting a preemptive strike/assassination. I recomend going for the first one.
Er... do you mean "I recommend that we seek to make the first outcome happen?" Or do you mean "I recommend that we find out more about the circumstances under which the first outcome would be fated to happen?"
 
It's probably worth telepathy-ing what we saw of the ships - I wouldn't be suprised if each of the warlords had a custom ship design that might be registered somewhere...
Confused Noises
-Prophecy: In an experiment on the new limits of your powers, you found yourself uttering something strange, yet nevertheless True. Under unclear conditions, you may speak scraps of unalloyed Truth about events to come -- not merely what will currently happen absent seer intervention, as with normal futuresight, but what will occur, no matter what. You don't know how you know this...but you do. What you say in the grip of true prophecy is True. This facet of your abilities is a massive mystery, but what is clear is that it takes a heavy toll on you.
'And if I understand your powers right, there shouldn't be options in any event,' points out Dazarel. 'The future is fixed, unless a seer's actions have some bearing on it. But they do have some bearing on it. You're actively involved in this, Princess. I suspect this is just the uncertainty introduced by your actions. Whether we are discovered, whether we are not, and whether we choose to attack an apparent vulnerability. So it seems to me, at least.'

You shake your head. "But my premonition-"

'Perhaps you misinterpreted it. Prophecy is legendary for its vagueness, not its clarity of purpose and vision.' He flutters his wings, stretching. 'Or perhaps there is some meaning to it that we missed. Even with the unique view you have on it, the future is a mysterious place. None of us are truly at home in it.'
Assuming I let myself reason OOC, my brain is just going to assume that Dazarel has no bloody idea what he's talk about re: Prophecy.
Quick speculation time!
"A YEAR UNTIL THE END; A YEAR BEFORE THE FALL
NEW NAMEK TURNS, STILL UNAWARE

"THAT WHICH HAS LAIN DORMANT MUST AWAKEN
AND THOSE WHO HAVE SCATTERED MUST RETURN


"BEFORE THE BLOW COMES
AND THE LAST DRAGON FALLS SILENT."
It's unclear how precise this is supposed to be - 7 months or so could totally be 'a year' in some casual contexts. It's also possible that the schedule is messed up by something happening to the fleet, ranging from getting attacked by another fleet or sabotaged or just breaking down from inadequate supplying - meaning that it could be that in both cases the trip takes until 'a year' has passed. The two attacks theory is also fairly reasonable.
-Tamrii braces itself in terror.

There is no fleet. The orbit is empty, but not through official action. It's simply deserted. Nothing dares to leave the planet.

You have only moments to wonder why.

A single ship appears in orbit, and the sheer power radiation from that vessel lances straight into your skull. You hardly have a moment to process-


'WHERE ARE THEY?' demands the master of that ship, his voice filled with rage. 'TELL ME WHERE THE FOOLS WHO WOULD ASSAULT MY BROTHER IN THE HEART OF HIS OWN FLEET HAVE HIDDEN THEMSELVES!'

And before the voice of Frigid, Emperor of the New Cold Empire, Planet Tamrii yields up New Namek's location in an instant-

-before you lurch out of the vision, head spinning as it finally, truly ends.
This also makes me wonder how viable it is to just... not attack the warlord themself? Though that feels like that's pushing it...
Personally, I'm really confused and curious, so I think I'd want to try to poke more at Sight mechanics.
 
ok, so...
You nod. "Any details about the invasion force leak the second a Vulkarite talks to a guest. Nobody's going there. And again, secrecy is the biggest thing. Everything else, you can bring in, but enough loyalty to keep a secret is something you can't import."
the choice of planet makes sense. Loyalty IS indeed the one thing you can't really buy, and the unexpected choice is usually so because it's suboptimal.
Dazarel stirs on your shoulders. 'Oh, you can hardly blame them, Princess. You struggle with the finer points of anarchist theory, they struggle to articulate the difference between your style of royalty and the arcosians'. I'd say that they'll learn given time, but, well...slugs.'
Funny how Dazarel is for once completely right.
'And if I understand your powers right, there shouldn't be options in any event,' points out Dazarel. 'The future is fixed, unless a seer's actions have some bearing on it. But they do have some bearing on it. You're actively involved in this, Princess. I suspect this is just the uncertainty introduced by your actions. Whether we are discovered, whether we are not, and whether we choose to attack an apparent vulnerability. So it seems to me, at least.'
He's being so helpful! I'm surprised.

I wonder if meeting Porunga has affected him more than we realized. Maybe we should talk to him about it at some point.

Welcome back, everybody! SV ate this update twice!
..i get the first time, but how could it happen to you twice?
... @PoptartProdigy, did both visions look like they were showing the same fleet?

If we have two visions of an invasion fleet heading for Namek, that doesn't mean either of them is necessarily wrong. It might just mean that the one fleet attacks - apparently rushed, given the complaints about too little time - gets its ass handed to it, and a second fleet follows up on the greater-than-expected resistance.
'if a seer's actions', hmm? Wonder what the odds are that an organization as large as the New Cold Empire employs at least one of those. Probably pretty high, relative to the rarity of seers at least.

these are both possible (and worrying) possibilities. At least any seer they have should likely be MUCH weaker and less effective than Kakara. We are a ssj seer after all. We simply have more juice to spend now that we don't have that block on us anymore.

Or the other way around

One takes their time, goes in, is stalemated, and the other rushes in to reenforce the siege
and yet Bassoon said it's unlikely they'd be able to hold for more than one month, while the two fleets were 7-3=4 months apart.

It's unclear how precise this is supposed to be - 7 months or so could totally be 'a year' in some casual contexts.
...wasn't the old namekian year 4 months long actually? I remember their dragonballs recharging in about that time.

The prohecy might very well be using both meaning of "year". It doesn't matter WHICH one actually gets applied, the prophecy would still be true.

@PoptartProdigy just to be sure: Is a Garenhuld year the same as an Earth year? What about Namek, NEW Namek and Tamriel Tamrii years?
 
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So when Dazarel said that a seer looking into something can change it, it made me wonder if those three visions we saw are if they find out we know. As in the rushed invasion is them finding out that we know about the invasion so they rush it in hopes of catching new namek off guard before they can truly set up their defenses, the slower but more prepared invasion is them if they don't catch on we know about the invasion so they take their time as normal, and third one is if we use our visions to try to prevent the invasion from starting which would just piss them off. So yeah I think that each vision is based on whether or not they figure out we know.
 
So when Dazarel said that a seer looking into something can change it, it made me wonder if those three visions we saw are if they find out we know. As in the rushed invasion is them finding out that we know about the invasion so they rush it in hopes of catching new namek off guard before they can truly set up their defenses, the slower but more prepared invasion is them if they don't catch on we know about the invasion so they take their time as normal, and third one is if we use our visions to try to prevent the invasion from starting which would just piss them off. So yeah I think that each vision is based on whether or not they figure out we know.
even worse, just imagine if the fact we know of one vision is enough to change the future, so that once we saw the first the future immediately changed to the second, and once we saw the second it changed to the third. In that case looking one more time might very well give us a FOURTH different vision!

I don't actually think this is how it works by the way, but it's at least possible
 
even worse, just imagine if the fact we know of one vision is enough to change the future, so that once we saw the first the future immediately changed to the second, and once we saw the second it changed to the third. In that case looking one more time might very well give us a FOURTH different vision!

I don't actually think this is how it works by the way, but it's at least possible
Or they have a deer of their own and are responding to our changes
 
Or they have a deer of their own and are responding to our changes



but seriously, they could, not sure how likely it is. On the one hand Seers are supposed to be incredibly rare, especially after Kanassa was destroyed, but on the other the Empire is certainly big enough to have a few..

We could try to out-seer them, I suppose. We likely have more vision juice than ten normal seers. Not sure if it's the best option though.

We could also check directly if the enemy has seers, and possibly try to kill/remove/convert them.
 
Hn. I'm inclined to do another Vision, with a preference for trying to figure out why we have 2 possible fleet timelines (it seems like we know what would bring Frigid down on us like the wrath of Laufey). Because those several months of difference are just as critical as "how strong is the person we're fighting".
 
ehi, maybe namekian regeneration is limited to their arms. How would you know? :V
A Namekian can regenerate from just their head, as long as they've got ki. That said, considering the fact that Lord Slug also had a scar over his left eye, it's reasonable to presume that head injuries don't heal as completely as the rest of their bodies.
 
Hm. Considering the last vision seems to follow from us launching a successful preemptive strike against the fleet's leader (if we'd failed, Frigid's involvement would be superfluous), that basically confirms it's at least sometimes going to be Haila, right? Since if Bassoon's assessment holds, we shouldn't have a chance at attacking Taigan and winning.

There's still the possibility that "who leads the fleet" is one of the things in flux, but given that circumstantial evidence, it seems less critical to check. I'd argue for either figuring out the discrepancy or saving the vision - leaning toward the former because using it for training is a pretty incremental net boost to our effective fighting strength, whereas the fleet hitting New Namek early would be a catastrophe.
 
...Right! I've joined a Rihakuquest since this was last up, and Kakara really needs to step up her training. If we don't have a contingency for beating Emperor Frigid by the end of the year, I will be very disappointed.
(Seriously, he might be less annoyed by Haila losing and his fleet being annihilated if it happens at Namek, but. We need a tool that can beat him, or a way to threaten them enough that they won't come back. @PoptartProdigy, how strong did Frigid read as?)
 
...Right! I've joined a Rihakuquest since this was last up, and Kakara really needs to step up her training. If we don't have a contingency for beating Emperor Frigid by the end of the year, I will be very disappointed.
(Seriously, he might be less annoyed by Haila losing and his fleet being annihilated if it happens at Namek, but. We need a tool that can beat him, or a way to threaten them enough that they won't come back. @PoptartProdigy, how strong did Frigid read as?)
Rihaku is constant escalation in a way that would make dragonball jealous. Here we're heavily capped by our transformations.

I like his quests, but I don't think you can really apply that kind of logic here. We're capped at FPSSJ after all (hopefully ssj2 soon) and Frigid is probably multiple billions above us.

Also the plan is to evacuate Namek AFTER defeating the invading fleet (to make their expansion slower), so we don't really need to care too much about Frigid's reaction AFTER the conflict.
 
...Right! I've joined a Rihakuquest since this was last up, and Kakara really needs to step up her training. If we don't have a contingency for beating Emperor Frigid by the end of the year, I will be very disappointed.
(Seriously, he might be less annoyed by Haila losing and his fleet being annihilated if it happens at Namek, but. We need a tool that can beat him, or a way to threaten them enough that they won't come back. @PoptartProdigy, how strong did Frigid read as?)
Reminder that it took Vegeta years to achieve super saiyan two; Goku was so confident he couldn't pull it off in a year himself that he didn't even bother trying. And our own opportunities to do transformation training are rather significantly more limited than theirs.
 
...Right! I've joined a Rihakuquest since this was last up, and Kakara really needs to step up her training. If we don't have a contingency for beating Emperor Frigid by the end of the year, I will be very disappointed.
(Seriously, he might be less annoyed by Haila losing and his fleet being annihilated if it happens at Namek, but. We need a tool that can beat him, or a way to threaten them enough that they won't come back. @PoptartProdigy, how strong did Frigid read as?)
Well the trio of Androids 17 and 18 and Buu have failed to overthrow him, so he's gotta be in the SS3 range I figure.

Maybe high-end SS2 if Buu is restraining himself to avoid collateral.
 
Rihaku is constant escalation in a way that would make dragonball jealous. Here we're heavily capped by our transformations.
Reminder that it took Vegeta years to achieve super saiyan two; Goku was so confident he couldn't pull it off in a year himself that he didn't even bother trying. And our own opportunities to do transformation training are rather significantly more limited than theirs.
Then we need to find multipliers and esoteric attack vectors. We've hit a bottleneck on that path, so expand laterally.
I like his quests, but I don't think you can really apply that kind of logic here. We're capped at FPSSJ after all (hopefully ssj2 soon) and Frigid is probably multiple billions above us.
Ki Overcharge is literally ten times stronger, at the level we saw. A 10% effective-power bonus is apparently a 50% holistic fighting bonus; if the guy is at nine billion or less, we win. So long as we have a quick takedown option, anyway.
(I do wish I had more of the rules, though. I'm pretty sure the default system goes:
Effective Power Advantage > Style bonus (because Styles are hardcapped, and softcap a lot faster) > Skill and miscellaneous bonuses (because the magnitude is roughly the same, but the application much narrower).
On a separate track, there's luck bonuses (a reroll would be worth more than half of a mastered Style), tactics, and weird abilities that don't fit well into the system.
But I'm not super clear on the math here, so I don't know how best to optimize our training. Can anyone help?)
 
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