The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Pictured: Endivan
...no.
New entry on the Lore Screen which I was finally able to get out.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Latest additions to the lore post in the first page include the formation of the ancestor cult and the Saga of Endivan, a normal saiyan who put an end to the first super saiyan rebellion, defeating an entire House by himself and then their Head, who had become SS in single combat without becoming one, by means the Lords have kept secret. He is also the founder of Gohan style as is known today, a scholar and a man whose greatest regret was, apparently, not being able to capture the super saiyan rebal alive as he did with all other members of his house. He retired to live peacefully after the rebellion, without ever getting involved in politics.
Lunaryon
Dual Aurora Wave
- Pronouns
- She/Her
*SUPER SECRET SPOILER*
It turns out that Kakara is the actual secret final boss of the Game, and this entire quest has been a ruse by @PoptartProdigy , because he is actually the writer of the Game!
- Location
- Australia
I have unlocked the secret to ultimate power. If we follow these steps we will become unstoppable.
1. Use Multiform to create a clone.
2. Have that clone go into her human Masque.
3. Use Fusion Dance with the clone instead of standard reabsorption.
4. Max Power+Full Power Super Saiyan=Max Power Super Saiyan
5. Enjoy having ultimate power.
Here's a full explanation:
According to the wiki, Roshi's resting power level is 139 and his Serious Form power level is 180. It doesn't explicitly say his Max Power form's power level but Tree of Might's movie pamphlet said Roshi's power level was 350 so let's go with that as his Max Power form's power level. 350/139=2.5, so Max Power multiplies someone's power level by 2.5.
Fusion Dance gives the fused person all the abilities, techniques, and powers that the two fusees had. Since it's a fusion of of the same person instead of two different people, there's no power boost but the fusion DOES get the powers of both a Saiyan hybrid AND a pure human.
When we stack all the bonuses and do the math, we get (375 million (base power level of fusion)+750 million (Super Saiyan from Kakara))*2.5 (Max Power from Karen) = a power level of 2.8125 billion from the fusion form known as Max Power Super Saiyan. All hail Kakaren!
EDIT: (/joke)
1. Use Multiform to create a clone.
2. Have that clone go into her human Masque.
3. Use Fusion Dance with the clone instead of standard reabsorption.
4. Max Power+Full Power Super Saiyan=Max Power Super Saiyan
5. Enjoy having ultimate power.
Here's a full explanation:
According to the wiki, Roshi's resting power level is 139 and his Serious Form power level is 180. It doesn't explicitly say his Max Power form's power level but Tree of Might's movie pamphlet said Roshi's power level was 350 so let's go with that as his Max Power form's power level. 350/139=2.5, so Max Power multiplies someone's power level by 2.5.
Fusion Dance gives the fused person all the abilities, techniques, and powers that the two fusees had. Since it's a fusion of of the same person instead of two different people, there's no power boost but the fusion DOES get the powers of both a Saiyan hybrid AND a pure human.
When we stack all the bonuses and do the math, we get (375 million (base power level of fusion)+750 million (Super Saiyan from Kakara))*2.5 (Max Power from Karen) = a power level of 2.8125 billion from the fusion form known as Max Power Super Saiyan. All hail Kakaren!
EDIT: (/joke)
Last edited:
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
I'm pretty sure Poptart is running a Shennigans: NO quest.
- Location
- Australia
The ultimate power/all hail Kakaren bits were meant to show it was a joke, really it was just me having fun doing the math. Edited to be more explicit.
Last edited:
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Its more Master Roshi simply powering up to his full power
I don't think so. Going ASSJ/USSJ isn't specific to Saiyans (Cell did something similar too) so presumeably Roshi's just using a mastered version of something between USSJ and ASSJ.
Edit:
This made me wonder if Freeza's 100% power even was his full power rather than his version of ASSJ (which would explain the stamina issues).
Last edited:
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Cell has enough Saiyan DNA to get a Zenkai
Using him for an example of almost anything that a race can do is a bad idea.
- Location
- Australia
Nah, it's an entirely different thing. Ultra Super Saiyan is just forcing regular Super Saiyan to output more power. Max Form isn't a variant of Super Saiyan, it's something else and has different effects.
Ultra Super Saiyan increases the power of an Ascended Super Saiyan by 50% for a total power boost of x2.25 over regular Super Saiyan (which actually makes it a bit greater than Super Saiyan 2 in that regard). If we go by my previous estimation - because even though it was a joke the movie pamphlet is the closest thing we have to canon - then Max Power increases a person's power level by x2.5, which is greater than the effect Ultra Super Saiyan has on Super Saiyan.
Super Saiyan drains a Saiyan's energy even if they're not doing anything and Ultra Super Saiyan takes this to astronomical levels. Max Power, so far as we can tell, doesn't drain energy but instead allows greater access to one's ki pool and thus allows for more energy to be put into attacks. It's actually kind of similar to Full Power Super Saiyan in that way and if I had to guess it's what inspired Goku to develop FPSS. So long as you're not an old man (or woman) there shouldn't be any problems regarding stamina.
Ascended Super Saiyan forces the Super Saiyan transformation to output more power, just like Ultra Super Saiyan. USS on the other hand forces SS to output so much power that the body ceases to be able to compensate and the resulting increase in muscle size and density is so great that any increase in speed due to the increased power is not only cancelled out, it's overwhelmed. As of Resurrection F, Roshi's mobility doesn't seem to be impeded at all as a result of Max Power.
Ascended Super Saiyan increases a Saiyan's aggression and Ultra Super Saiyan probably does the same, maybe more so. Max Power doesn't. Max Power doesn't make the user's hair spikier either.
No, it was definitely his 100% power - it's right there in the name of the form. The stamina issue was because he wasn't used to fighting at that level of power and he had gotten over that weakness by the time of his second invasion of Earth, allowing him to use his full power without the stamina issues.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Vote tally:
##### 3.19
[X] Accept his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
No. of votes: 2
moon-llama, veekie
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
-[X] Your apology is heartfelt, but it is misplaced, I cannot forgive or condemn you on behalf of the rest of the Faith. However, I ask that if you truly want redemption, then please work with me to help these people.
No. of votes: 3
Darkandus, Rmnimoc, Walkin' Man
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
--[X] He says he will accept punishment for reaching above his station but there is something else he must answer for first; taking advantage of the distress of his fellow saiyans in his search for power. Sincé he is willing to offer his life in penance, you will take it: he shall dedÃcate it to help others whenever he can until he makes amends for what he did. Then, on the day you become Lady, he will come to you and you shall pass judgement.
No. of votes: 12
Nathaniel Wolff, Bakkasama, Aranfan, ShadowAngelBeta, Zuduke, yert, Karnax626, Astaroh-M, Nix's Warden, KnightDisciple, KaintukeeBob, LazyLayabout
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
-[X] Your apology is heartfelt, but it is misplaced, I cannot forgive or condemn you on behalf of the rest of the Faith. However, I ask that if you truly want redemption, then please work with me to help these people.
-[X] Also whisper to him that we need to talk about house matters, with emphasis on house.
No. of votes: 1
anailater
[X] Accept his apology.
-[X] We see he meant well and bear no hard feelings for his misjudgement
-[X] ...and give him a punishment.
--[X] He shall retire from his position, choosing a worthy (possibly temporary) successor. He will spend a year living among the families of the faith that will accept him, seeing what they need firsthand, and do what he can to aid them. After the year is up, the faith itself will make a final decision to leave him stripped of his position or return him to it. It's not just us he has unintentionally wronged, after all.
No. of votes: 2
Terrabrand, Alanek
[X] Refuse his apology.
-[X] ...but offer no punishment.
-[X] I cannot accept your apology, for you have done nothing wrong. Instead, you should be commended, commended for being able to see the dark clouds on the horizon and knowing that fractured and apart the Saiyan race may indeed come undone by storm that is coming. You saw the darkness, and you saw our frailty, and acted to be the light in the darkness, the beacon of hope that would allow us to weather this storm. And that is no crime. Even if the way you went about your actions was wrong, the intent to help, the intent to strengthen us all - that is not, that cannot be wrong. Even as you say that you are not, and cannot be the light that keeps this approaching darkness at bay, Then I ask that you be the shutters of the lantern, to keep the heavy winds from blowing out the light, to be the oil that keeps the light going bright. We cannot stand alone and apart in these times... So instead I ask of you this -- will you help me to not only protect the faith, but to help protect and guide us all.
--[X] Help him to his feet
No. of votes: 1
Lunaryon
##### 3.19
[X] Accept his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
No. of votes: 2
moon-llama, veekie
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
-[X] Your apology is heartfelt, but it is misplaced, I cannot forgive or condemn you on behalf of the rest of the Faith. However, I ask that if you truly want redemption, then please work with me to help these people.
No. of votes: 3
Darkandus, Rmnimoc, Walkin' Man
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
--[X] He says he will accept punishment for reaching above his station but there is something else he must answer for first; taking advantage of the distress of his fellow saiyans in his search for power. Sincé he is willing to offer his life in penance, you will take it: he shall dedÃcate it to help others whenever he can until he makes amends for what he did. Then, on the day you become Lady, he will come to you and you shall pass judgement.
No. of votes: 12
Nathaniel Wolff, Bakkasama, Aranfan, ShadowAngelBeta, Zuduke, yert, Karnax626, Astaroh-M, Nix's Warden, KnightDisciple, KaintukeeBob, LazyLayabout
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
-[X] Your apology is heartfelt, but it is misplaced, I cannot forgive or condemn you on behalf of the rest of the Faith. However, I ask that if you truly want redemption, then please work with me to help these people.
-[X] Also whisper to him that we need to talk about house matters, with emphasis on house.
No. of votes: 1
anailater
[X] Accept his apology.
-[X] We see he meant well and bear no hard feelings for his misjudgement
-[X] ...and give him a punishment.
--[X] He shall retire from his position, choosing a worthy (possibly temporary) successor. He will spend a year living among the families of the faith that will accept him, seeing what they need firsthand, and do what he can to aid them. After the year is up, the faith itself will make a final decision to leave him stripped of his position or return him to it. It's not just us he has unintentionally wronged, after all.
No. of votes: 2
Terrabrand, Alanek
[X] Refuse his apology.
-[X] ...but offer no punishment.
-[X] I cannot accept your apology, for you have done nothing wrong. Instead, you should be commended, commended for being able to see the dark clouds on the horizon and knowing that fractured and apart the Saiyan race may indeed come undone by storm that is coming. You saw the darkness, and you saw our frailty, and acted to be the light in the darkness, the beacon of hope that would allow us to weather this storm. And that is no crime. Even if the way you went about your actions was wrong, the intent to help, the intent to strengthen us all - that is not, that cannot be wrong. Even as you say that you are not, and cannot be the light that keeps this approaching darkness at bay, Then I ask that you be the shutters of the lantern, to keep the heavy winds from blowing out the light, to be the oil that keeps the light going bright. We cannot stand alone and apart in these times... So instead I ask of you this -- will you help me to not only protect the faith, but to help protect and guide us all.
--[X] Help him to his feet
No. of votes: 1
Lunaryon
Better formatted tally:
Also, the Lore section still isn't fixed.
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 141 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
--[X] He says he will accept punishment for reaching above his station but there is something else he must answer for first; taking advantage of the distress of his fellow saiyans in his search for power. Sincé he is willing to offer his life in penance, you will take it: he shall dedícate it to help others whenever he can until he makes amends for what he did. Then, on the day you become Lady, he will come to you and you shall pass judgement.
No. of Votes: 12
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
-[X] "Your apology is heartfelt, but it is misplaced, I cannot forgive or condemn you on behalf of the rest of the Faith. However, I ask that if you truly want redemption, then please work with me to help these people."
No. of Votes: 3
[X] Accept his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
No. of Votes: 2
[X] Accept his apology.
-[X] We see he meant well and bear no hard feelings for his misjudgement
-[X] ...and give him a punishment.
--[X] He shall retire from his position, choosing a worthy (possibly temporary) successor. He will spend a year living among the families of the faith that will accept him, seeing what they need firsthand, and do what he can to aid them. After the year is up, the faith itself will make a final decision to leave him stripped of his position or return him to it. It's not just us he has unintentionally wronged, after all.
No. of Votes: 2
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
-[X] "Your apology is heartfelt, but it is misplaced, I cannot forgive or condemn you on behalf of the rest of the Faith. However, I ask that if you truly want redemption, then please work with me to help these people."
-[X] Also whisper to him that we need to talk about house matters, with emphasis on house.
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Refuse his apology.
-[X] ...but offer no punishment.
-[X] I cannot accept your apology, for you have done nothing wrong. Instead, you should be commended, commended for being able to see the dark clouds on the horizon and knowing that fractured and apart the Saiyan race may indeed come undone by storm that is coming. You saw the darkness, and you saw our frailty, and acted to be the light in the darkness, the beacon of hope that would allow us to weather this storm. And that is no crime. Even if the way you went about your actions was wrong, the intent to help, the intent to strengthen us all - that is not, that cannot be wrong. Even as you say that you are not, and cannot be the light that keeps this approaching darkness at bay, Then I ask that you be the shutters of the lantern, to keep the heavy winds from blowing out the light, to be the oil that keeps the light going bright. We cannot stand alone and apart in these times... So instead I ask of you this -- will you help me to not only protect the faith, but to help protect and guide us all.
--[X] Help him to his feet
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 21
##### NetTally 1.7.4
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
--[X] He says he will accept punishment for reaching above his station but there is something else he must answer for first; taking advantage of the distress of his fellow saiyans in his search for power. Sincé he is willing to offer his life in penance, you will take it: he shall dedícate it to help others whenever he can until he makes amends for what he did. Then, on the day you become Lady, he will come to you and you shall pass judgement.
No. of Votes: 12
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
-[X] "Your apology is heartfelt, but it is misplaced, I cannot forgive or condemn you on behalf of the rest of the Faith. However, I ask that if you truly want redemption, then please work with me to help these people."
No. of Votes: 3
[X] Accept his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
No. of Votes: 2
[X] Accept his apology.
-[X] We see he meant well and bear no hard feelings for his misjudgement
-[X] ...and give him a punishment.
--[X] He shall retire from his position, choosing a worthy (possibly temporary) successor. He will spend a year living among the families of the faith that will accept him, seeing what they need firsthand, and do what he can to aid them. After the year is up, the faith itself will make a final decision to leave him stripped of his position or return him to it. It's not just us he has unintentionally wronged, after all.
No. of Votes: 2
[X] Don't accept or refuse his apology.
-[X] Help him to his feet.
-[X] Explain why.
-[X] "Your apology is heartfelt, but it is misplaced, I cannot forgive or condemn you on behalf of the rest of the Faith. However, I ask that if you truly want redemption, then please work with me to help these people."
-[X] Also whisper to him that we need to talk about house matters, with emphasis on house.
No. of Votes: 1
[X] Refuse his apology.
-[X] ...but offer no punishment.
-[X] I cannot accept your apology, for you have done nothing wrong. Instead, you should be commended, commended for being able to see the dark clouds on the horizon and knowing that fractured and apart the Saiyan race may indeed come undone by storm that is coming. You saw the darkness, and you saw our frailty, and acted to be the light in the darkness, the beacon of hope that would allow us to weather this storm. And that is no crime. Even if the way you went about your actions was wrong, the intent to help, the intent to strengthen us all - that is not, that cannot be wrong. Even as you say that you are not, and cannot be the light that keeps this approaching darkness at bay, Then I ask that you be the shutters of the lantern, to keep the heavy winds from blowing out the light, to be the oil that keeps the light going bright. We cannot stand alone and apart in these times... So instead I ask of you this -- will you help me to not only protect the faith, but to help protect and guide us all.
--[X] Help him to his feet
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 21
Also, the Lore section still isn't fixed.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
@PoptartProdigy
So how proud of us is Grandma for the Golden Oozaru thing? You said we'll see but the flow of things kinda went in a different direction.
So how proud of us is Grandma for the Golden Oozaru thing? You said we'll see but the flow of things kinda went in a different direction.
- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy, when's the update?
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Patience Padawan!
Don't make me start quoting Neil Gaiman!
The update will come its prepared, lets not rush quality!
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Other quest has been dragging, but I recently made a breakthrough on my approach to the update giving me trouble. That'll be out tomorrow, and the smaller scale of the update here means that the same probably applies for this.
You're still see.
- Location
- Australia
When will we be able to ask questions? I have a sizeable backlog of questions I'd like to ask and it looks like the lore screen's far from done.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Blegh, that thing is on hiatus given how difficult it's being. Ask away. The questions need to get up onto the Lore Screen eventually anyway.
EDIT: Just bear in mind that I need to sleep soon. My schedule isn't that flexible, and it's 3:00 am on my particular spot east of the Pacific. I may not answer tonight.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
What would happen if a Scion was shown to possess whatever the hell was up with Broly?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Blessedly, none have. But they would have been expressly forbidden to ever use it.
- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy
If we want to do an action in secret (like mastering Ultra Super Saiyan), how would that work? A sub-option? Would the Deceit skill be involved?
You said that it would be a medium-high difficulty check to convince Fennella into sparring with us while we have our Masque on because most Saiyans dislike the Masquerade, but when we told her how powerful we were in our Masque she was impressed and expressed a desire to train in her Masque as well. This doesn't seem to add up.
Is Piccolo and Goku driving canon?
What was Mr. Satan's Deceit level?
Can we buy predictions from (a) Seer(s) to boost our actions? I mean yeah we're a Seer, but we haven't finished our training yet so I doubt we're as good as professional Seers.
Can we use the Helicopter Technique to improve our flight speed?
I asked which was more powerful - the Super Kamehameha or the Final Flash. You said they were equally powerful. I've come to the conclusion that that may have been wrong. The Super Kamehameha's equivalent isn't the Final Flash, it's the Galick Gun (or at least an upscaled version of it). Those are the two techniques that went up against each other during the Saiyan Invasion and they were stalemated while Goku and Vegeta's power levels were equal. The Final Flash is - by design - meant to be a way more powerful beam attack than the Galick Gun and should therefore be more powerful than the Super Kamehameha. That said, it seems to have more in common with the Tri Beam in that it's a fire-and-forget wave rather than the Galick Gun/Kamehameha which can be sustained. Your thoughts?
In the inventory screen it says that the weighted clothing does little to improve our strength. Does that mean they still provide a bonus to learning physical combat actions, even if it doesn't help increase our power level any more?
Is it possible to develop a Superpowered Good/Evil Side like in those other Shonen (Bleach and Naruto as examples for SES)?
If we see some boy pushing Maya the same way that kid pushed Sophie, will there be any vote-weighting against kicking that boy in the dick as a result of our Pacifism trait or will that be a kind of exception? What if we see a Roshi-type individual groping a woman?
Will Pacifism hinder our ability to learn Satan Style? Going by the description of the style, it seems less like combat and more like flailing around ineffectually. Also showboating.
Can we give Seer powers to people like that 419-er (forgot the race's name) gave to Bardock?
How does the Turtle Destruction Wave Wave differ from the Turtle Destruction Wave?
Instead of using our Masque to turn into a pure human, can we use it to turn into a pure Saiyan? Saiyan hybrids don't seem to have the same intuition for combat and ki that pure Saiyans have so it'll probably help if we practised our abilities in a pure Saiyan form.
If we want to do an action in secret (like mastering Ultra Super Saiyan), how would that work? A sub-option? Would the Deceit skill be involved?
You said that it would be a medium-high difficulty check to convince Fennella into sparring with us while we have our Masque on because most Saiyans dislike the Masquerade, but when we told her how powerful we were in our Masque she was impressed and expressed a desire to train in her Masque as well. This doesn't seem to add up.
Is Piccolo and Goku driving canon?
What was Mr. Satan's Deceit level?
Can we buy predictions from (a) Seer(s) to boost our actions? I mean yeah we're a Seer, but we haven't finished our training yet so I doubt we're as good as professional Seers.
Can we use the Helicopter Technique to improve our flight speed?
I asked which was more powerful - the Super Kamehameha or the Final Flash. You said they were equally powerful. I've come to the conclusion that that may have been wrong. The Super Kamehameha's equivalent isn't the Final Flash, it's the Galick Gun (or at least an upscaled version of it). Those are the two techniques that went up against each other during the Saiyan Invasion and they were stalemated while Goku and Vegeta's power levels were equal. The Final Flash is - by design - meant to be a way more powerful beam attack than the Galick Gun and should therefore be more powerful than the Super Kamehameha. That said, it seems to have more in common with the Tri Beam in that it's a fire-and-forget wave rather than the Galick Gun/Kamehameha which can be sustained. Your thoughts?
In the inventory screen it says that the weighted clothing does little to improve our strength. Does that mean they still provide a bonus to learning physical combat actions, even if it doesn't help increase our power level any more?
Is it possible to develop a Superpowered Good/Evil Side like in those other Shonen (Bleach and Naruto as examples for SES)?
If we see some boy pushing Maya the same way that kid pushed Sophie, will there be any vote-weighting against kicking that boy in the dick as a result of our Pacifism trait or will that be a kind of exception? What if we see a Roshi-type individual groping a woman?
Will Pacifism hinder our ability to learn Satan Style? Going by the description of the style, it seems less like combat and more like flailing around ineffectually. Also showboating.
Can we give Seer powers to people like that 419-er (forgot the race's name) gave to Bardock?
How does the Turtle Destruction Wave Wave differ from the Turtle Destruction Wave?
Instead of using our Masque to turn into a pure human, can we use it to turn into a pure Saiyan? Saiyan hybrids don't seem to have the same intuition for combat and ki that pure Saiyans have so it'll probably help if we practised our abilities in a pure Saiyan form.
Last edited:
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
...
Saiyan Hybrids level up and gain power far quicker then pure Saiyans do at equivalent age.
Compare Trunks, Goten and Gohan to Goku and Vegeta at the same ages, and they are always far far stronger.
The only reason why Goku/Vegeta stay on top is because they still training (and because Gohan stopped to be a responsible parent). Hell, in Toriyama canon (ie not GT) Pan has the potental to become a completely new and unsurpassed version of Super Saiyan. Hell, considering the Super Saiyan God ritual, she was a Super Saiyan before being born! (or her fetal blood has the potential to turn people into Super Saiyans).