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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Cadis said:
So I take it The Enemy would not have been a match for Goku and Vegeta then? Since they waited until they had died to start making their move. Also I just realized you retcon the story a bit:

This no longer makes sense given that they fought in a separate universe.
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Nothing in these snippets says Piccolo hasn't achieved Divine Ki, he did feel the battle and observe it, and there's nothing that says what happens at the end there didn't literally bleed through the walls between universes. ;)
 
PoptartProdigy said:
I haven't actually shown in this quest what their afterlives were like. Perhaps you're remembering a different quest, RP, or fanfic.
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The rules of heaven that kept them from just Instant Transmissioning down to fight the enemy? I could have sworn you implied they ended up on the bad side of the heavenly bureaucracy a few times after they died.
 
Blonddude42 said:
...so exile tradition says that the Enemy was waiting for those two to die to show up?
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PoptartProdigy said:
They figured he would at least find it prudent to wait.
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Well, either he didn't come into his power until after they died, or he had those powers before they died and was waiting for them to die, or it was only blind luck that he never crossed swords with them.

In the third case, the Enemy would have to be pretty stupid. So it's safer to assume one of the first two cases.

I mean, we, in-character, now know that Frieza sought out the Enemy and fought him. And that after this fight the Enemy went into seclusion for a hundred years, which strongly suggests that it was a tough fight for him and gave him a reason to withdraw from galactic affairs, but not a reason that would motivate him to have already done so. "Exterminate the saiyans" alone wouldn't quite explain the Enemy's actions. He was still searching, at least for the saiyan-tuffle hybrids, and why would he stop that search if he didn't have to?

And we, at least out of character, know that the outcome of the fight between Gohan and the Enemy was close enough to uncertain that Fortuneteller Baba didn't know to evacuate Earth until it was far too late to do anything.

So there's an implication that someone operating at Gohan or Frieza's tier would be potentially capable of killing the Enemy. And it's reasonable to suppose that both Goku and Vegeta were significantly more dangerous even than that, to the point where the Enemy might be basically making a coin toss as to whether he'd survive the battle, or even be badly outclassed.
 
Blonddude42 said:
...so exile tradition says that the Enemy was waiting for those two to die to show up?
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???

… Yes?

PoptartProdigy said:
Old age is as formidable an enemy as any other -- more, in fact. Unlike others, it cannot be defeated by powering up. That was, however, all that Goku and Vegeta knew how to do.

They died.

And in an instant, those they left behind were beset. As it turns out, entrusting one's safety to but two individuals -- one, really, given Vegeta's success rate -- is a poor idea, especially when those individuals are aging swiftly. Earth was set upon by foes too scared of the Saiyans' reputation to attack, yet scared enough to do so as soon as the storied defenders of Earth were gone. Yet despite this, Son Gohan stepped up to fill the gap, standing strong in the face of the threats that came to his home, even though he was pressed to his very limits.

Until the day when the foe was simply too much.

Records from that day are confusing. No witnesses of the fight itself survived -- the only records are the testimony of survivors using ki sensing and scattered updates from the battlefield. The only living members of the original Z Fighters at that time were Tenshinhan -- sometimes known as Tien -- Piccolo, and Son Gohan himself. Krillin's daughter Maron, Goku's student Uub, Gohan's daughter Pan, and Son Goten and Prince Trunks had since taken up their predecessor's mantles.
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Like. Bolded for emphasis. It was widely true that earth was set upon by people scared shitless of Goku/Vegeta and not so much Gohan.

Maybe they have no specific reason to believe the Enemy was a part of this pattern, but the first post makes it clear the Exiles knew/believed they'd been left alone out of fear of the two.

That the Enemy was among those afraid would seem the default guess, right there. So many small e enemies did the same.
 
shepsquared said:
The rules of heaven that kept them from just Instant Transmissioning down to fight the enemy? I could have sworn you implied they ended up on the bad side of the heavenly bureaucracy a few times after they died.
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Ah, that. I mean, I suppose it's a predictable consequence of their actions, but that's just them getting on the wrong side of the rules and losing privileges because of it.

As for what is the cause of Shin's anxiousness...well, that's a bit of a spoiler, now, isn't it? :p
 
It will be interesting if we ever discover HOW they actually stopped Goku and Vegeta from interfering. Must have been some powerfull god/group of gods/magic users to pull it off.
 
You know, the other option is that fighting the Enemy was a really bad idea for them. Heck, magic-user - the Enemy might have something a bit like 19 and 20, which empowers him proportionally to his opponents.
It is a good question, though.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Well, either he didn't come into his power until after they died, or he had those powers before they died and was waiting for them to die, or it was only blind luck that he never crossed swords with them.

In the third case, the Enemy would have to be pretty stupid. So it's safer to assume one of the first two cases.

I mean, we, in-character, now know that Frieza sought out the Enemy and fought him. And that after this fight the Enemy went into seclusion for a hundred years, which strongly suggests that it was a tough fight for him and gave him a reason to withdraw from galactic affairs, but not a reason that would motivate him to have already done so. "Exterminate the saiyans" alone wouldn't quite explain the Enemy's actions. He was still searching, at least for the saiyan-tuffle hybrids, and why would he stop that search if he didn't have to?

And we, at least out of character, know that the outcome of the fight between Gohan and the Enemy was close enough to uncertain that Fortuneteller Baba didn't know to evacuate Earth until it was far too late to do anything.

So there's an implication that someone operating at Gohan or Frieza's tier would be potentially capable of killing the Enemy. And it's reasonable to suppose that both Goku and Vegeta were significantly more dangerous even than that, to the point where the Enemy might be basically making a coin toss as to whether he'd survive the battle, or even be badly outclassed.
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While I agree on pretty much every other point, there is little to indicate the Enemy doesn't just have a passive anti-Sight thing going, based on how Kakara reacted to trying to see under it's hood. Thus, we cannot assume that Baba didn't collapse/die before she could tell anyone to do anything.

Ironically, we might actually need a high-tier mage's help, despite the fact that they have either been Dandeer or jobbed pretty hard when facing anything resembling a peer opponent fairly regularly and Kakara's personal distaste for magic.
 
Pittauro said:
It will be interesting if we ever discover HOW they actually stopped Goku and Vegeta from interfering. Must have been some powerfull god/group of gods/magic users to pull it off.
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My guess is that once Goku and Vegeta were dead, a new set of rules, rules based on the fabric of existence, took hold. Powers that aren't measured by things so linear as "power" or "Ki" took firmer hold, because Goku and Vegeta were no longer mortal.
 
ilbgar123 said:
While I agree on pretty much every other point, there is little to indicate the Enemy doesn't just have a passive anti-Sight thing going, based on how Kakara reacted to trying to see under it's hood. Thus, we cannot assume that Baba didn't collapse/die before she could tell anyone to do anything.
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I'm going by things Poptart said earlier. Much earlier in the thread.

Also, Fortuneteller Baba, not being a descendant of Bardock, cannot specifically have the Kanassan Sight that the Exiles have. She may have been foretelling the future by some other means. It's still possible that the Enemy's countermeasures would have prevented Baba from foreseeing his victory, granted, but not a given.
 
Given that Kanassan Sight seems to be some form of psychic ability, it would seem possible that the Enemy 'simply' has some form of broad-range anti-psychic block. We have reason to suspect that they use magic, and we know that warding is a thing magic does. Ergo, it seems likely that the Enemy could have a ward against direct action via psychic powers. This would even explain the lack of ability to see within his hood, as everything else was simply observing things the Enemy interacted with (his cloak, the air molecules his voice vibrated, etc) whereas looking at him directly was blocked.

If the Kanassan Sight is psychic and the Enemy does have a broad-spectrum psychic defense, that could explain why he was unconcerned: "Oh, hey, they've got this thingy. My existing defenses can handle it, but I need to be sure to keep them up until this crew are all gone."

If that's the case, perhaps Baba's version of seeing the future was also psychic in nature, and thus also affected by the Enemy's theoretical defense.
 
I mean, strictly yes, but then, if a psychic observation power can see things the Enemy interacts with, you'd think it could be used to scry into the future and see the fate of the Earth a little while after the end of the battle:

"Is the planet still going to be here in three months- OH SHIIIT!"
 
KaintukeeBob said:
This would even explain the lack of ability to see within his hood, as everything else was simply observing things the Enemy interacted with (his cloak, the air molecules his voice vibrated, etc) whereas looking at him directly was blocked.
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At the point where "hearing your voice is not observing you it's observing air vibrations" comes into play, I feel like "seeing your face is not observing you it's observing photons" is equally valid.
KaintukeeBob said:
If that's the case, perhaps Baba's version of seeing the future was also psychic in nature, and thus also affected by the Enemy's theoretical defense.
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Bear in mind that we know of at least one important difference between how these two types of Sight interact with the Enemy: Earth's destruction was not foreseen, whereas Kakara was able to perceive the Enemy's future actions in her big prophecy vision.
 
KaintukeeBob said:
Given that Kanassan Sight seems to be some form of psychic ability, it would seem possible that the Enemy 'simply' has some form of broad-range anti-psychic block. We have reason to suspect that they use magic, and we know that warding is a thing magic does. Ergo, it seems likely that the Enemy could have a ward against direct action via psychic powers. This would even explain the lack of ability to see within his hood, as everything else was simply observing things the Enemy interacted with (his cloak, the air molecules his voice vibrated, etc) whereas looking at him directly was blocked.

If the Kanassan Sight is psychic and the Enemy does have a broad-spectrum psychic defense, that could explain why he was unconcerned: "Oh, hey, they've got this thingy. My existing defenses can handle it, but I need to be sure to keep them up until this crew are all gone."

If that's the case, perhaps Baba's version of seeing the future was also psychic in nature, and thus also affected by the Enemy's theoretical defense.
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The Enemy's anti-scrying measures could be more esoteric than "you can't see him but you can see his robe and detect vibrating air molecules", and I'd think he'd have both anti-psychic and anti-magic wards....No reason Baba has to be psychic, or use psychic foresight.

Simon_Jester said:
I mean, strictly yes, but then, if a psychic observation power can see things the Enemy interacts with, you'd think it could be used to scry into the future and see the fate of the Earth a little while after the end of the battle:

"Is the planet still going to be here in three months- OH SHIIIT!"
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Well, none of the Saiyan descendants had an active Sight at the time.
 
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Well, this is singularly poor timing.

Folks, I actually have an update half-done in another tab, but there are some technical issues. I hope to have the update to you today or tomorrow, but lately my computer has been suffering some increasingly severe errors. Suffice it to say that there are rapidly-worsening errors with both the laptop itself and several programs on it. Given that this is how I write, that is an issue. And given that my wife and I just, in the past thirty days, got hit with several hundred dollars of vet visits and the need to buy a new furnace and AC unit...we do not have money to replace a laptop at this time.

The good news is that we managed to also secure a pair of new income streams. I'll be able to set money aside for a new laptop out of those. However, it's going to be a little while.

What this means for you all is that while I should hopefully get the next update out today or tomorrow, going forward my writing is likely to be more sporadic. If my laptop kicks it for good, my writing will almost certainly grind entirely to a halt. Just as I was getting back into things, too. I'll keep you all posted, and I hope to swiftly resolve this issue, but in the meantime, sorry; lean times in store. That said, keep on holding out; I'll get back to this eventually, I just need to resolve my technical issues first. See you all around, and hopefully soon!
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Well, this is singularly poor timing.

Folks, I actually have an update half-done in another tab, but there are some technical issues. I hope to have the update to you today or tomorrow, but lately my computer has been suffering some increasingly severe errors. Suffice it to say that there are rapidly-worsening errors with both the laptop itself and several programs on it. Given that this is how I write, that is an issue. And given that my wife and I just, in the past thirty days, got hit with several hundred dollars of vet visits and the need to buy a new furnace and AC unit...we do not have money to replace a laptop at this time.

The good news is that we managed to also secure a pair of new income streams. I'll be able to set money aside for a new laptop out of those. However, it's going to be a little while.

What this means for you all is that while I should hopefully get the next update out today or tomorrow, going forward my writing is likely to be more sporadic. If my laptop kicks it for good, my writing will almost certainly grind entirely to a halt. Just as I was getting back into things, too. I'll keep you all posted, and I hope to swiftly resolve this issue, but in the meantime, sorry; lean times in store. That said, keep on holding out; I'll get back to this eventually, I just need to resolve my technical issues first. See you all around, and hopefully soon!
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Just make sure to back everything up just in case. It always sucks when a story gets killed because the computer it was written on dies and the author looses all their notes and background info.
 
Well, thank you for the transparency. Incidentally, as a temporary measure, you might look into checking out a laptop from your library? I know my library had a service like that, but I don't know how widespread it is.
 
Alright, my computer choked and died faster than anticipated, and is now relegated to emergency use only, thus the delay. That said, my wife has said I can use hers, which suits well enough for the moment. Working on the update.

Also, a few folks here and in my other quest have expressed an interest in helping out with the replacement issue. I'm investigating payment sources and talking to my wife about it, who is even twitchier than I am about sending or receiving money over the internet. I'll get back in touch with you all once I've come to a conclusion. Thank you all for your patience and support. The update is on its way!
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Alright, my computer choked and died faster than anticipated, and is now relegated to emergency use only, thus the delay. That said, my wife has said I can use hers, which suits well enough for the moment. Working on the update.

Also, a few folks here and in my other quest have expressed an interest in helping out with the replacement issue. I'm investigating payment sources and talking to my wife about it, who is even twitchier than I am about sending or receiving money over the internet. I'll get back in touch with you all once I've come to a conclusion. Thank you all for your patience and support. The update is on its way!
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Be sure to only accept things filed as donations under Paypal if you end up accepting them. I've seen enough horror stories of artists having chargebacks done on their donations, leaving them in the red, to not have faith in people here.

(Not an attack against anyone in particular. Just better safe than sorry when it comes to finances.)
 
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