This cannot possibly surprise you.
Dragon Ball: After the End
This cannot possibly surprise you.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
You're not over the line. My post is a precaution, not chastisement.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, I suppose not. Just...impressed? That you had the quote all ready to go.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Fair. It was still needlessly inciteful of me, and I didn't want to leave that in the thread anyway. Didn't add anything (or much, at least), and was dismissive toward others.
I remember everything.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Oh, you have no idea. In the other thread I participate in there's a player who you can just mention something and he'll have the exact text citation in the story ready.
You weren't the first person to think of it/suggest/support it though. Hell, I voted for doing so on the page before yours.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
plz no drama plz no drama
Credit where it's due. Faflec is the only person I've ever encountered who does mental indexing so much better than me that even I find it downright spooky.
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- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
If we want to convince dandeer of something useful beyond stopping Jaron's suicide or the like, we're probably going to have to play the ancestors card heavily and pray for luck. It's not going to be easy, even with our excellent bonuses and omakes and Gohan's reputation, though; I wouldn't vote for a communications plan under the assumption that it's somehow more reliable than the shade plan or variants thereof, or just has a better potential payoff and a (possibly) more interesting charachter development moment.
I might try and put one together myself, If I have the time, but I will definitely be voting for a well built communications plan, but if it's not solidly better then I'll probably also approval vote 1+ of my favorite follow the plan + x votes.
I might try and put one together myself, If I have the time, but I will definitely be voting for a well built communications plan, but if it's not solidly better then I'll probably also approval vote 1+ of my favorite follow the plan + x votes.
- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
OK, so if we can't talk her out of this, what could we talk her into that's useful down the line? Keep in mind that if we disguise going shade well, Dandeer will think her victory is total, allowing for small mercies.
- Location
- Italy
list of possibilities
1)giving Jaffur and Jaron a bit more freedom, maybe allow them to train, by tricking her in making her believe this could change their mind and make her love her
2)maybe giving Jaron a body if she's capable of it? Convince her that Jaron is as much her son as Jaffur is?
3)treating the misfits well (if they don't manage to escape) as they are Jaffur's/Jaron's friends?
4)not enslaving the garenhulders, or at least not treating them TOO badly (Goku/Gohan did not consider themselves morally superior to the Earthlings after all)
5)being carefull of the side-effects of mind control (case in point, Jaron's suicide attempt)
6)not killing the scout prisoners (and the incoming aliens)
7)not freeing Dazarel. Seriously, that's a BAD idea!
...i can't think of anything else right now.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Things in brackets (other than the vote) are not to be in the final vote: They're there for clarification of intent (to @PoptartProdigy) and to help others help me word it better.
[ ] Talk it out
- [ ] Apologize: Kakara has let her anger get the better of her all these years [Intent: Catch Dandeer off guard, get her to listen. Kakara is genuine, though: As much as she hates her, Kakakra can sympathize. She still remembers her early years, just faintly, when she was considered a weakling by everybody and was something of an outcast because of it.]
- [ ] Explain: Kakara did this for Jaffur. She has had dreams of Grandpa Gohan visiting her. He taught her the Spirit Bomb, and told her what happened to Jaffur was wrong. [Intent: Play into Ancestor cult worship, play into Dandeer's care for Jaffur.]
- [ ] Implore: Be careful with Jaffur. Something else she learned [implied to be from Gohan] was that Jaron and Jaffur are different people. It'd be very easy to kill Jaron. Also... Jaron tried to kill himself. She's scared for others being similarly sealed.
- [ ] Assure: Kakara didn't do this to destroy Dandeer's life. She just wanted to help her friend.
I... don't know how to finish this. I don't know what note, exactly, to end on. @QTesseract halp?
[ ] Talk it out
- [ ] Apologize: Kakara has let her anger get the better of her all these years [Intent: Catch Dandeer off guard, get her to listen. Kakara is genuine, though: As much as she hates her, Kakakra can sympathize. She still remembers her early years, just faintly, when she was considered a weakling by everybody and was something of an outcast because of it.]
- [ ] Explain: Kakara did this for Jaffur. She has had dreams of Grandpa Gohan visiting her. He taught her the Spirit Bomb, and told her what happened to Jaffur was wrong. [Intent: Play into Ancestor cult worship, play into Dandeer's care for Jaffur.]
- [ ] Implore: Be careful with Jaffur. Something else she learned [implied to be from Gohan] was that Jaron and Jaffur are different people. It'd be very easy to kill Jaron. Also... Jaron tried to kill himself. She's scared for others being similarly sealed.
- [ ] Assure: Kakara didn't do this to destroy Dandeer's life. She just wanted to help her friend.
I... don't know how to finish this. I don't know what note, exactly, to end on. @QTesseract halp?
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- Location
- Here and there
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ok the problem here is we plan on breaking out temporarily to give the Senzu's the opportunity to leave, thus undermining a lot of what we're about to say. As such, aside from preventing Jaron's suicide I can't think of much that Dandeer would agree to that would also help us.
I don't think she wants to conquer Garunhald, but I could be wrong.
Don't hurt Dad because of us/Help him with the mental pain if possible. That's the other big one.
I don't think she wants to conquer Garunhald, but I could be wrong.
Don't hurt Dad because of us/Help him with the mental pain if possible. That's the other big one.
- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy, this makes me upset. I'm investing a cookie into talking Dandeer down because you said it was possible to do so, just that it was unlikely. Now you're saying that it's outright impossible. Explain fully ALL that you can about how an attempt at diplomacy may go. Do not leave things out just because the right questions weren't asked or because they weren't asked in the exact right way. This is incredibly annoying.
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Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
What kind of diplo victories are possible here exactly? Can we 'break' her?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Unlikely. She's prepared for that. It's mostly likely that what we can do is convince her of important things (IE: Don't kill Jaron, also people who are sealed seem to be suicidal) and maybe get her to not go through with her plan as it is.
e: My ideal scenario would be for Kakara to convince her not to go through her plan as it is, instead seal the events of the past day, and... I dunno. Something else, I'm sure.
e2: I hope I get the chance to work on that plan some more tomorrow after feedback overnight, but I need to sleep for now.
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Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
How do you prepare for that?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
By expecting Kakara to throw a tantrum at you like a child would. Because that's how she sees Kakara.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
She thinks she just achieved total victory and we are hated enemies. It makes absolutely no sense that we could talk her into surrender since she is about to get everything she wanted after years of work, everyone wants to kill her and we are only discussing this with her because she captured us plus she thinks we hate her and want her to suffer. She is also a bit angry over the grabing her tail thing.
Convincing her not to do her spell is a no go. Convincing her to trust Kakara is a no go. Convincing her to surrender when she made an enemy of all super saiyans and the only one of them who doesn't want her dead is the one Dandeer considers her nemesis and thinks wants her to suffer is a no go. Because none of them make sense and that is not how convincing people works in real life and the system tries to mimick that with numbers. Those goals do not consider what Dandeer wants and think as a person and that is the first thing you must do to convince anyone of anything.
What Poptart meant with diplomatic victory is that we can actually achieve something if we have realistic expectations.
For example, we could:
1- Convince her to seal Yammar instead of killing him. This would probably involve manipulating her rather than appealing to compassion.
2- Plant doubts in her mind about her actions so she might actually be talked down after we come back from space and defeat her.
3- Gain some insight about what spell she will cast so we can plan later how to counter it.
4- Minimize potential damage by making her aware of Jaron suicidal tendencies.
5- Figure out why she wanted to kill the scouts and see if we can arrange things so she doesn't just make saiyans slaughter the invaders.
6- Make her know that she is not going to be happy with this so that she remembers our words whenever things don't go as she imagined. Out of spite and to help convince her at a later confrontation.
Do note most of the write ins don't aim for these things except telling her about Jaron. I think 1, 3 and 4 are the most important ones in the list.
shepsquared
Erratic Aussie
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
I can't remember, does our dad definitely want to kill her?
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
She lied to him to imprison an innocent boy and possibly driving him insane and making another innocent one consider suicide, presumably so that she could conquer the world and taking advantage that he would lower his guard around her because of years of friendship and guilt both to place a mind control spell on him so that he would go against his beliefs by fighting against his mother and daughter and making the efforts he went through to correct his past mistakes (which is a core part of his personality) not only pointless but to worsen the situation he tried to resolve, for her own selfish reasons. She is now about to gloat about it.
I am not sure if he definitively wants her dead but I don't think he will contest those who do, who coincidentally are the ones with the legal authority to decide if she should die for this.
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CaesriusPolybius
Worldgate Mechanic
- Location
- United States. Ish.
Well for one, "talking her into" being aware of the whole suicidal Jaron thing, even for plans where we don't try to talk her down somewhat.
Because the rule of the newfound sorceress-queen of Garenhuld is not one I expect to be particularly sane, and I'd rather we not come home to a razed hellscape because she snapped when her son killed himself. Also, y'know, would be nice for Jaron and Jaffur to be still present.