Dragon Ball: After the End

[Simon_Jester]

If he VIPs to the other side that gives us an opening. During this fight we are going to have to keep in mind who the actual target is.

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Uh no, I mean there's a risk that if he sees us readying a Solar Flare, Berra teleports right up into our face and kicks our ass in hand-to-hand.

On the other hand, we might catch him a bit off-guard with that, or whatever mind programming he's under might not register it as an attack.

And, hmmm...

...

[ ][ACTION] Figure out a gambit to neutralize the Lords without fighting them. They might be mind-controlled, but maybe they're on some really restrictive programming that you can exploit? Without knowing what that programming is?
-[ ] Write-in: Right now, fighting a mindless raging oozaru instead of a mindful raging sorceress sounds pretty good. Throw a power ball out there, in hopes of catching Dandeer off-guard and causing her to transform.

@PoptartProdigy , is this a viable ACTION vote, in that it could reasonably be carried out, irrespective of whether or not it's a good idea?

And how about...

[ ][ACTION] Figure out a gambit to neutralize the Lords without fighting them. They might be mind-controlled, but maybe they're on some really restrictive programming that you can exploit? Without knowing what that programming is?
-[ ] Write-in: Solar Flare! Warn your allies, and use the Taiyoken. Hopefully you can stun Dandeer, or dazzle enough of the mind-controlled royals to give one of you a clear shot at her, or both.

Is this viable?

 

[Ayashi]

Jaffur is preparing something. Your fathers continue to maintain guard positions. Apra and Yammar are dueling overhead. The Senzus are seconds away. Dandeer is preparing a spell. What do you do?

[ ][ACTION] Figure out a gambit to neutralize the Lords without fighting them. They might be mind-controlled, but maybe they're on some really restrictive programming that you can exploit? Without knowing what that programming is?
-[ ] Write in the gambit. Up to one, please; you have limited time and concentration.
[ ][ACTION] You'll take Vegeta. Your flight abilities will let you evade his ki blasts and stay in the fight. Jaffur can take your father; both are incredible fighters, but your father specialized in splitting up multiple opponents, while Jaffur has trained his entire life to kill a super saiyan in single combat. Once your father is unconscious, Jaffur can help you take down Vegeta.
[ ][ACTION] You'll take Berra. Your father must be in there, somewhere. If you can reach him, you can turn him against Dandeer again, and get the odds back in your favor. Jaffur can take his father; it is literally the opponent he's built himself up all his life to kill.
[ ][ACTION] Kais on high you wish you'd fired up Spirit Saiyan in advance now. You need it, right now. Jaffur doesn't have to beat both Vegeta and Berra -- frankly, you doubt he can under these conditions. But he should hopefully be able to give you five minutes to charge.
[ ][ACTION] Stall for time. Dandeer's doing something, but you have backup incoming as well. She probably won't be expecting the Senzus just now.
[ ][ACTION] Write-in.

Time and concentration are limited, but there are a few other things of which you could take care right now, if you feel they warrant the risk of splitting your attention. No big plan votes; you have a very limited amount of attention and time going spare right now.

[ ][OTHER] Somehow, nothing really seems pressing enough to justify splitting your attention right now, thanks!
[ ][OTHER] This is a bad situation, but you need to handle something.
-[ ][OTHER] What happened with the Seers? Start contacting people and try to figure out what's going on.
-[ ][OTHER] You need to rally some of your people. You're in a numerically even fight, and need every advantage you can get. Get in contact with the Heads in on the conspiracy and direct them to provide massed fire support and counterspell work to the fight. Every little bit counts right now.
-[ ][OTHER] Find somebody who can get out a message and get Dandelor in here now! There's other sorcerer in the world who you'd bet even stands a chance against the woman who soloed fifty sorcerers at full power. He's already incoming, but if you can get somebody to tell him things have gone sideways, he might be able to speed up by abandoning any efforts at subtlety.
-[ ][OTHER] Write-in.

MANUAL MORATORIUM; APPROVAL VOTING.

See, write-ins are still here. Calm down. In fact, I'll be giving them additional support. I'm going to post the leading write-ins when I open the vote, to make it easier for people to keep up with what's going on.

The big issue with the essay votes on the last update is that Kakara would start auto-failing options for want of concentration. She has limited attention span. Thus, restrictions. She realistically can only handle one of any given thing, thus why the option not to take and [OTHER] option mentions splitting attention. That's because we're going to have frequent updates spanning very short time frames here. The action will be going very quickly, and I'll break for voting frequently. You are voting for what Kakara spends the next few seconds doing.

We're back in business, folks! Make sure to read the above options completely; I've edited a couple for clarity. Have fun chatting!

Also, I wouldn't advise multiforming. You're quite probably heading into combat momentarily.

Enjoy!

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I still don't think i'm going to bother voting, the whole situation makes no sense.
Dandeer is not a Super Saiyan, hence she's hovering, at best, at around a percent of the strength, and durability, and speed, including mental speed, of the six SSJ around. Anyone of which, if farting in her general direction, should obliterate her.

 

[NavySeel]

Honestly I think tryi b to go spirit saiyan is the best option,even if we only ask the planets Saiyan population for power it should be enough.
Even if some don't the vast majority of clan vegeta probably would.

 

[QTesseract]

I still don't think i'm going to bother voting, the whole situation makes no sense.
Dandeer is not a Super Saiyan, hence she's hovering, at best, at around a percent of the strength, and durability, and speed, including mental speed, of the six SSJ around. Anyone of which, if farting in her general direction, should obliterate her.

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She's a sorcerer, and probably the strongest one alive. Did you miss buu arc, or? Magic is no combat slouch.

We know that Babidi, for instance, was dangerous enough that Shin (mid ssj levels, minimum, since he can 1shot freeza) considered him a dangerous opponent even before he knew that Babidi had recruited Dabura, and we see why when Buu Arc Piccolo had difficulties breaking babidi's shield with direct attacks. We don't know how exactly Babidi and Dandeer stack up relative to one another, but I would be very very hesitant to assume that she's completely helpless here.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

[ ][ACTION] Figure out a gambit to neutralize the Lords without fighting them. They might be mind-controlled, but maybe they're on some really restrictive programming that you can exploit? Without knowing what that programming is?
-[ ] Write-in: Right now, fighting a mindless raging oozaru instead of a mindful raging sorceress sounds pretty good. Throw a power ball out there, in hopes of catching Dandeer off-guard and causing her to transform.

@PoptartProdigy , is this a viable ACTION vote, in that it could reasonably be carried out, irrespective of whether or not it's a good idea?

And how about...

[ ][ACTION] Figure out a gambit to neutralize the Lords without fighting them. They might be mind-controlled, but maybe they're on some really restrictive programming that you can exploit? Without knowing what that programming is?
-[ ] Write-in: Solar Flare! Warn your allies, and use the Taiyoken. Hopefully you can stun Dandeer, or dazzle enough of the mind-controlled royals to give one of you a clear shot at her, or both.

Is this viable?

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Um. You know both of those techniques, and are capable of executing them. There is no immediate physical restraint preventing you from performing them at this time.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

I still don't think i'm going to bother voting, the whole situation makes no sense.
Dandeer is not a Super Saiyan, hence she's hovering, at best, at around a percent of the strength, and durability, and speed, including mental speed, of the six SSJ around. Anyone of which, if farting in her general direction, should obliterate her.

Click to shrink...

Dandelor is of the opinion that she is warded out the ass. Indeed, it is quite probable that she has wards specifically for her ass, given how many she's likely to have created. While a focused attack can definitely burn through, she should be fine from any collateral.

If she weren't at least that cautious, Dandelor would have succeeded in assassinating her by now.

 

[Aranfan]

[][ACTION] Figure out a gambit to neutralize the Lords without fighting them. They might be mind-controlled, but maybe they're on some really restrictive programming that you can exploit? Without knowing what that programming is?
-[] Write-in: Right now, fighting a mindless raging oozaru instead of a mindful raging sorceress sounds pretty good. Throw a power ball out there, in hopes of catching Dandeer off-guard and causing her to transform.

Go go oddball!

 

[Pittauro]

Honestly I think tryi b to go spirit saiyan is the best option,even if we only ask the planets Saiyan population for power it should be enough.
Even if some don't the vast majority of clan vegeta probably would.

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it's risky, we don't know how long Dandeer's spell would take and the spirit saiyan requires minutes of charging time.
There is also a small chance Dandeer might have something to stop it. Veery small. I remember she was seen checking the place where we used it the first time, and she might have been trying to study it somehow (we do need to study what the limits of magic are...)

Dandelor is of the opinion that she is warded out the ass. Indeed, it is quite probable that she has wards specifically for her ass, given how many she's likely to have created. While a focused attack can definitely burn through, she should be fine from any collateral.

If she weren't at least that cautious, Dandelor would have succeeded in assassinating her by now.

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it was pretty obvious, but good to finally have confermation.

[x][ACTION] Figure out a gambit to neutralize the Lords without fighting them. They might be mind-controlled, but maybe they're on some really restrictive programming that you can exploit? Without knowing what that programming is?
-[x] Write-in: Right now, fighting a mindless raging oozaru instead of a mindful raging sorceress sounds pretty good. Throw a power ball out there, in hopes of catching Dandeer off-guard and causing her to transform.

Go go oddball!

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i think it's still moratorium
EDIT: i do like the vote though

 

[Aranfan]

i think it's still moratorium

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Oh.

 

[FeepingCreature]

Jaffur you silly. You're not in love with her. It's worse. You're in rivalry.

Welcome back, Scion Jaffur. We missed you.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

Jaffur you silly. You're not in love with her. It's worse. You're in rivalry.

Welcome back, Scion Jaffur. We missed you.

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JAFFUR: (gazing into the existential nightmare that comprises Kakara's deepest thoughts): AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-

Later, once he calms down.

JAFFUR: I know I'm not in love with her. The weirdly intrusive chapter said so. Why is everybody convinced I am?

 

[Bakkasama]

I think I would go with this one:

[ ][ACTION] Figure out a gambit to neutralize the Lords without fighting them. They might be mind-controlled, but maybe they're on some really restrictive programming that you can exploit? Without knowing what that programming is?
-[ ] Write in: You need to be at two places at once, both fighting the Lords and stopping Dandeer. Have Jaffur buy you some time, make a multiform clone and have said clone go Oozaru, then attack Dandeer. She has two bodyguards and counting Jaffur and your clone you have three attackers; one of them is bound to get her.

It would make it so Vegeta and Berra are at FPSS at 1125M PL, Jaffur* and Kakara at 1125 PL and Oozaru Kakara at 750M**. All of them too fast and strong for Dandeer.

*Functionally higher because he knows ki concentration
** 1125M durability and 375M speed

@PoptartProdigy if written this way can we assume the Oozaru will attack in the most efficient way (Which I assume is by bombarding Dandeer with a barrage of fast but comparatively weak blasts from afar since as long as they might hurt Dandeer that would tie up one of her bodyguards to protect her even if they can't really hurt said bodyguards or Jaffur and Kakara if caught by them and that negates the Oozaru´s speed disadvantage by not having it rely on it) or do we have to specify in the write in?

 

[PoptartProdigy]

@PoptartProdigy if written this way can we assume the Oozaru will attack in the most efficient way (Which I assume is by bombarding Dandeer with a barrage of fast but comparatively weak blasts from afar since as long as they might hurt Dandeer that would tie up one of her bodyguards to protect her even if they can't really hurt said bodyguards or Jaffur and Kakara if caught by them and that negates the Oozaru´s speed disadvantage by not having it rely on it) or do we have to specify in the write in?

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If no method is specified, Kakara will perform the action to the best of her abilities.

 

[Modus_Tollens]

JAFFUR: (gazing into the existential nightmare that comprising Kakara's deepest thoughts): AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-

Later, once he calms down.

JAFFUR: I know I'm not in love with her. The weirdly intrusive chapter said so. Why is everybody convinced I am?

Click to shrink...

"Its not like I like you or anything. You merely dominate my every waking thought and make me want to dedicate my life to seeing you shine brighter every day than you did the last." Uh huh. Sure. I'm absolutely going to trust a kid going through puberty to have an accurate mental image of what love is.

I mean, it might be a John Adams/Thomas Jefferson sort of love though.

Dandelor is of the opinion that she is warded out the ass. Indeed, it is quite probable that she has wards specifically for her ass, given how many she's likely to have created. While a focused attack can definitely burn through, she should be fine from any collateral.

If she weren't at least that cautious, Dandelor would have succeeded in assassinating her by now.

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So make sure we cheat like hell. I have to think a psychological attack has some merit, since a lot of magic requires active participating. Not all of it, but probably a good chunk of what she would be running during hot combat.

 

[VicSage]

I mean, it might be a John Adams/Thomas Jefferson sort of love though.

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They intend to start a republic and throw tea in the harbor?

 

[Simon_Jester]

Um. You know both of those techniques, and are capable of executing them. There is no immediate physical restraint preventing you from performing them at this time.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

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Mostly just checking that there's nothing I hadn't thought of which would cause you to look at one of those choices and go "no, bad vote choice," and that they were formatted like you wanted.

 

[FeepingCreature]

"Its not like I like you or anything. You merely dominate my every waking thought and make me want to dedicate my life to seeing you shine brighter every day than you did the last." Uh huh. Sure. I'm absolutely going to trust a kid going through puberty to have an accurate mental image of what love is.

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Yes, but also exactly. That is spot-on for my mental image of "romantic rivalry, Saiyan style". Love makes you want to protect and cherish. Rivalry makes you want to challenge them again and again. It's a paradoxical emotion - it makes you wish for them to grow as strong as they can, while still taking aim to overcome them. Given how Saiyans grow through adversity, this just makes perfect sense to me.

JAFFUR: I know I'm not in love with her. The weirdly intrusive chapter said so. Why is everybody convinced I am?

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It was a rhetorical device!

 

[Simon_Jester]

I don't think it's the only way saiyans can relate to each other romantically, especially not the extensively hybridized Exile saiyans... but it's definitely a thing.

Also, to borrow my omake character:

Mitsuba:

"I... almost ship it."

 

[Akiri]

I do want Jaffur to cover us until we can rush Dandeer with Kakara, Jaffur, and Monkey!Kakara-Two. Let the guards have fun trying to counter a speed demon and two IT users. As long as we're throwing a powerball anyway, we may as well use it and try to get Dandeer with it too.

Actually, I want to get all three of them into Oozaru form if reasonably practical. Worst plausible case, it does nothing at all. Best case, Monkey!Dandeer is instantly stopped, Monkey!Vegeta is a nonentity, and Monkey!Dad gets a speed penalty and maybe a new will save.

And hopefully Monkey!bystanders stay out of the way and also hopefully we don't get Monkey!Dandelor.

...Performing a single action with multiple goals is still just one thing, right? This just means we're using the powerball, so if that fails it's not just a waste of time.

 

[Simon_Jester]

I do want Jaffur to cover us until we can rush Dandeer with Kakara, Jaffur, and Monkey!Kakara-Two. Let the guards have fun trying to counter a speed demon and two IT users. As long as we're throwing a powerball anyway, we may as well use it and try to get Dandeer with it too.

Actually, I want to get all three of them into Oozaru form if reasonably practical. Worst plausible case, it does nothing at all. Best case, Monkey!Dandeer is instantly stopped, Monkey!Vegeta is a nonentity, and Monkey!Dad gets a speed penalty and maybe a new will save.

And hopefully Monkey!bystanders stay out of the way and also hopefully we don't get Monkey!Dandelor.

...Performing a single action with multiple goals is still just one thing, right? This just means we're using the powerball, so if that fails it's not just a waste of time.

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Uhh, let's not overcomplicate what we actually say that we are doing. The blessing we've been given is that we're voting on what Kakara does in this moment, with the strong implication that if we don't grossly screw it up, we'll have the opportunity to follow up on any tactical advantages we gain by our early actions. At the same time, any plan that involves multiple contingent steps working as intended, is a doubtful plan.

Also, shit, you're right... Lord Vegeta may not know about Golden Oozaru; turning him into a ragemonkey may massively debuff him. On the other hand, that's not something to bet on, since he's already a super-saiyan. It's quite possible that if you forcibly turn an FPSS into an oozaru you get a Golden Oozaru by default.

Let's see. I'm trying to catalogue some of our write-in options:

---

[ ][ACTION] Figure out a gambit to neutralize the Lords without fighting them. They might be mind-controlled, but maybe they're on some really restrictive programming that you can exploit? Without knowing what that programming is?
-[ ] Write-in: Right now, fighting a mindless raging oozaru instead of a mindful raging sorceress sounds pretty good. Throw a power ball out there, in hopes of catching Dandeer off-guard and causing her to transform.

[ ][ACTION] Figure out a gambit to neutralize the Lords without fighting them. They might be mind-controlled, but maybe they're on some really restrictive programming that you can exploit? Without knowing what that programming is?
-[ ] Write-in: Solar Flare! Warn your allies, and use the Taiyoken. Hopefully you can stun Dandeer, or dazzle enough of the mind-controlled royals to give one of you a clear shot at her, or both.

[ ][ACTION] Figure out a gambit to neutralize the Lords without fighting them. They might be mind-controlled, but maybe they're on some really restrictive programming that you can exploit? Without knowing what that programming is?
-[ ] Write in: You need to be at two places at once, both fighting the Lords and stopping Dandeer. Have Jaffur buy you some time, make a multiform clone and have said clone go Oozaru, then attack Dandeer. She has two bodyguards and counting Jaffur and your clone you have three attackers; one of them is bound to get her.

 

[Terrabrand]

Also, shit, you're right... Lord Vegeta may not know about Golden Oozaru; turning him into a ragemonkey may massively debuff him. On the other hand, that's not something to bet on, since he's already a super-saiyan. It's quite possible that if you forcibly turn an FPSS into an oozaru you get a Golden Oozaru by default.

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I'm going to assume that's wrong just because if it's as simple as 'apply powerball to any Lord's face' you would think it would have been known by now.

 

[Simon_Jester]

I dunno; if the royals believe that turning into an oozaru will weaken rather than strengthen them, they'd resist it, and it might simply never have come up because it's quite possible to deliberately avoid transforming even when the moon or a power ball is around.

[Which is the biggest reason I'm not 100% happy with using the power ball on Dandeer; too high a chance she'll be able to avoid having it work on her, even if she's doing everything in massive slo-mo compared to us]

...

On the other hand, we unlocked Golden Oozaru by having an 'utter need' moment that caused us to call upon our super-saiyan powers while in oozaru form. So it might be that this trigger is necessary in some way, and that until the form is thus 'unlocked' by someone who either knows about it or can stumble upon it like we did, it's simply not a thing that can happen.

 

[Akiri]

Uhh, let's not overcomplicate what we actually say that we are doing. The blessing we've been given is that we're voting on what Kakara does in this moment, with the strong implication that if we don't grossly screw it up, we'll have the opportunity to follow up on any tactical advantages we gain by our early actions. At the same time, any plan that involves multiple contingent steps working as intended, is a doubtful plan.

Also, shit, you're right... Lord Vegeta may not know about Golden Oozaru; turning him into a ragemonkey may massively debuff him. On the other hand, that's not something to bet on, since he's already a super-saiyan. It's quite possible that if you forcibly turn an FPSS into an oozaru you get a Golden Oozaru by default.

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How is it overcomplicated? In terms of actions performed, it's literally the same as the last option you listed. We have to throw a Power Ball in order to have an Oozaru clone. I'm just saying that maybe we put it somewhere useful, as long as it's around either way. Zero additional complexity, possible extra advantage. If you're worried about multi-step plans, then the problem is the "then attack Dandeer" part, since the tactical situation may have changed while we buff ourselves.

Our enemies turning Golden Oozaru is a debuff for them. It makes them slower and easier to get around. Though an untrained golden ragemonkey may admittedly be problematic in terms of collateral, I suppose.

 

[Simon_Jester]

How is it overcomplicated? In terms of actions performed, it's literally the same as the last option you listed. We have to throw a Power Ball in order to have an Oozaru clone. I'm just saying that maybe we put it somewhere useful, as long as it's around either way. Zero additional complexity, possible extra advantage. If you're worried about multi-step plans, then the problem is the "then attack Dandeer" part, since the tactical situation may have changed while we buff ourselves.

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Okay, so what, specifically, do you think should go in the write-in? Draft it as a single-step plan and we'll talk. The way you're presenting it make it sound like multiple overlapping steps or contingencies, but maybe you can write it as a single action. I may be less iffy about it then.

Our enemies turning Golden Oozaru is a debuff for them. It makes them slower and easier to get around.

Click to shrink...

Ehhh, it may be complicated. The increase in raw power may tend to offset that somewhat. Remember that we first unlocked the Golden Oozaru form to contain an attack, an omnidirectional blast from our little brother that threatened to kill bystanders.

I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but it may not be as clear-cut a change in our favor as we think.

Though an untrained golden ragemonkey may admittedly be problematic in terms of collateral, I suppose.

Click to shrink...

Very problematic. Very very.

 

[Akiri]

Okay, so what, specifically, do you think should go in the write-in? Draft it as a single-step plan and we'll talk. The way you're presenting it make it sound like multiple overlapping steps or contingencies, but maybe you can write it as a single action. I may be less iffy about it then.

Click to shrink...

[ ][ACTION] Write in: Have Jaffur buy you some time, make a multiform clone and have said clone go Oozaru, trying to position your Power Ball to affect Dandeer as well.

This is basically a defensive version of the Power Ball plan that prepares for that idea to fail. It's also a more flexible version of the monkeyclone plan. A more aggressive version of this idea is to just go with the Power Ball plan and, later, after the next update, have a clone look at it if that is still a reasonable course of action. But at that point we may not be able to easily disengage and we could be stuck in a 2v2 fight, which is what I want to avoid.

 

[Simon_Jester]

We very much do not want to end up stuck in a 2v2 fight while multiformed until the clone has time to go ape, because then we're going to get flattened.

Nor do we want to leave Jaffur fighting Berra and Vegeta alone for any great length of time if we can help it, because that's, like, the one fight which could plausibly occur that he might not win. The only reason it's worth it is for Spirit Saiyan, which would trivialize this entire encounter IF we could set it up right.