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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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I won't say I'm not interested in Calistola, but can we please just clean up our backyard first? If the past couple of turns have taught us anything the biggest threats to our turn plans have been from Doofania, and we are never going to get anywhere if we have to keep constantly looking over our shoulder.
 
woweed said:
This entire discussion makes me really want to infiltrate Calisota.
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Heh. You could run a entire quest just out of duckburg and stuff associated with it. And I mean a globe spanning quest.

Don Rosa went way overboard on world building and setting details considering the basis of the setting was a family of anthropomorphic ducks. It's incredibly impressive if you think about it.
 
Shade31415 said:
I won't say I'm not interested in Calistola, but can we please just clean up our backyard first? If the past couple of turns have taught us anything the biggest threats to our turn plans have been from Doofania, and we are never going to get anywhere if we have to keep constantly looking over our shoulder.
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Outside of the criminal underworld we should be safe for the next couple of turns from stuff from Danville, so we get someone to do that and we can do whatever with the other intrigue action. I'd prefer San Fran (whether Sycorax or Bill Cult is up for debate still) but infiltrating Calistota I wouldn't mind, especially since we know Glomgold has been spying on us since last year.
 
Shade31415 said:
I won't say I'm not interested in Calistola, but can we please just clean up our backyard first? If the past couple of turns have taught us anything the biggest threats to our turn plans have been from Doofania, and we are never going to get anywhere if we have to keep constantly looking over our shoulder.
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I mean we just did clean it up. In order to catch up with other players we need to infiltrate, steal, sabotage, etc.

Let's build up towards tier 3 infiltration of a Zaibatsu perhaps and see what is going on and put us in a great position to yoink some research or hero units potentially. I think Sycorax would be best as our first target.
 
bigking321 said:
Heh. You could run a entire quest just out of duckburg and stuff associated with it. And I mean a globe spanning quest.

Don Rosa went way overboard on world building and setting details considering the basis of the setting was a family of anthropomorphic ducks. It's incredibly impressive if you think about it.
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Hey, Barks laid the groundwork. And i've considered it.
 
Penguinbowler said:
Outside of the criminal underworld we should be safe for the next couple of turns from stuff from Danville, so we get someone to do that and we can do whatever with the other intrigue action. I'd prefer San Fran (whether Sycorax or Bill Cult is up for debate still) but infiltrating Calistota I wouldn't mind, especially since we know Glomgold has been spying on us since last year.
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does the mole that wants to kill all humans count as underworld?
 
Wouldn't it make more sense to focus on infiltrating Cloverleaf? We did just find out that Doom is making some frankly ridiculous strides in AI and obtained some strange frog-like object.
 
Thought: What if trapped in Impel Duck is not Shiki the Golden Lion, but an actual Lion person? Either the former Mayor Lionheart, or just a famous Lion toon/anthro in general?
 
nwish425 said:
Wouldn't it make more sense to focus on infiltrating Cloverleaf? We did just find out that Doom is making some frankly ridiculous strides in AI and obtained some strange frog-like object.
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I'd say the main intrigue actions we have are the following, on top of any franchise actions we acquire as well.

Negaduck Plan (Only really viable to gun for if we can get a collab going, and/or Russ returns), Doofanian Underworld (Getting our house in order before going for the rest), Investigating Celebration (More info and the DC just lowered) and seeding corporate agents into Cloverleaf or the Zaibatsu in general (probably Sycorax off the DC).

Options like Murderous Toon are high prio options if we can get them unlocked when Russ returns with evidence but its still not necessarily our highest priority option at the moment and wouldn't be gone for this turn. While I want to investigate the cult in Sokyo specifically due to the focus we're having in the area for a bit, I also understand that is something of a minority position.

So probably 4-5 main intrigue options that are known to us and consider between this turn.

I think Doofanian is a lock no matter what, since we need to get that done to help make the area fully set up. For the 2nd option, its more flexible. Negaduck if we get Russ and no collab option (Blot unironically springs to mind) since if we can collab and Russ is back we wait a turn. Celebration is possible and it might give us non Dickens/Goob evidence to show to Winston since he doesn't trust those much but at the same time we have other priorities and I want to see the hat results first. Where the seeding corporate agents option basically is a question of the network type and who would we be willing to send in, if we want the stronger type. Once that's sorted, both are solid options, though both are the type to potentially hurt their employees which is mildly concerning still.

And still potential franchise actions to cover here as well.
 
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@Stratagemini OIh, by the way, sorry I didn't mention this earlier, but, if you're still updating the rival stats stuff, uh...Well, they now label the bonuses in the rival reports, so....Hm.
 
Decided to go through to compile the upcoming interludes again:

Next up is probably this:
Made in Heaven said:
Sycorax
[ ] Exhume the Corpse of Mighty Joe Young
DC 120
83+36 (Learning)+37+20-9=167
Success

To be continued in Interlude: The Eighth Wonder
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It's hard to imagine that this would be worthy of ending the turn with the everything else going on and I'm not expecting much from it

I mean, i guess it's possible they might come to DEI regarding cloning the body since that sort of thing is one of our claims to fame

Then there's part 1:
Made in Heaven said:
--[X] [Intrigue] Root out high-level moles (Mezmerella) [CoS 74%] (Crit thresholds 94+/3-)
DC 120
93+18+31+17+5+10(???)+3+10(XP)=177
Excellent Success

To be continued in Interlude: Find Fantastic Part 1: Clean Slate
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Made in Heaven said:
--[X] [Occult] Search for Agent Unknown (Gomez) [CoS 82%] (Crit thresholds 93+/2-)
DC 80
47+19+12+19+2+10(XP)=99
Success

To be continued in Interlude: Find Fantastic Part 1: Clean Slate
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Made in Heaven said:
---[X] Chat with the Bossman (Coyote) (-10)
63-10=53

To be continued in Interlude: Find Fantastic Part 1: Clean Slate
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Which combines the action to set up a beacon for Russ to hopefully follow back, Mezmerella probably finding moles (and hopefully not being one), and the talk with Coyote (which is relevant as there has been some odd behavior here),

I can see how the latter two might connect but am unsure where the former does; best guess is that the chapter might end with Russ appearing and bearing witness to the chaos of:

Made in Heaven said:
--[X] [Learning] Study weird object (Jumba) [CoS 72%] (Crit thresholds 94+/7-)
DC 140
3+38+39+20+5+10 (XP)=115
Critical Failure!

To be continued in Interlude: Find Fantastic Part 2: So That's What It Feels Like
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Made in Heaven said:
The Phantom Blot
[ ] Kidnap Dr. Doofenshmirtz
DC 127 (Reduced by -75 by Level 3 infiltration)
69+52 (Intrigue)+20+25+3=169

To be continued in Interlude: Find Fantastic Part 2: So That's What That Feels Like
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A possible fairy attack, or, at best, occurrence that causes the object to be destroyed while Doof gets kidnapped

I'm guessing that, upon seeing this, Russ would leap right back into action to confront PB and rescue his friend employer/target

.

Random question: can we do multiple Chats in the same turn? If we get Russ back then we should probably do so with him, but that might also mean putting Mirage on the backburner for another turn
 
Jumba's critical failure with the Weird Object has the same interlude name as the Blots's kidnapping. I wonder if a screw-up while studying the object allowed Blot to get access to Council info somehow?
 
Vote closed!

Adhoc vote count started by Pawn Lelouch on Jul 1, 2022 at 10:35 PM, finished with 432 posts and 81 votes.
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BurnBright said:
Okay, I've decided to go over the whole update, to try and pinpoint what's rubbing me the wrong way about this interaction, and how Xanatos is manipulating us.

So, I'm basically 100% sure this is a lie. He's acting like it's something obvious, and I think that's part of what he's actually doing this whole section: he acts as if he was expecting more from Doofenshmirtz, and then makes Doofenshmirtz feel dumb for not realizing that.

And on the one hand, yes, Doofenshmirtz is dumb for not realizing that, that's why this approach works. But Xanatos wasn't approaching things expecting Doofenshmirtz to be smarter, he approached things knowing Doofenshmirtz's blindspots.

Xanatos' use of body language here communicates to Doof just how open he's being, just how earnest, where, once again, he's pretty blatantly lying. Like, Xanatos out-negotiated Doof incredibly heavily, he knows that in-character and we know that out of character. He did not start these meetings with the intention of mutual information gathering.

Once again, here, Doof is right to feel a bit childish and sheepish. He was wrong to think of someone he met a few times as a friend. But, at the same time, Xanatos is playing up how sheepish he should be. Once again, the narration shows him acting how one would expect him to if he were surprised, but it doesn't actually state he's surprised, because he's not.

For example, note how his first choice in pointing out how they're not friends isn't saying it outright. Instead, he chooses to lead Doof to the realization, so that Doof doesn't feel rebuffed in any real sense, and instead feels like it was his mistake (which it was).

Here, of course, he says "if I misled you", and honestly? He's not entirely wrong to say that. Like, he never really deliberately misled Doof. Rather, he allowed Doof to make his assumptions, and didn't correct them. In a sense, then, he once again uses the tactic I mentioned above, letting Doof save face by acting as if the fault is partially his- and thus also potentially making Doof feel like he's even worse (Admittedly, this is the portion of the analysis I'm least sure of).

As for the last bit, where he mentions networking? Yeah, I believe him, actually? Like, Xanatos never has just one angle, and I'm sure he did want to network. It's just, as far as he thought, networking probably mainly involved making Doof like Xanatos.

This is where what I've been saying is stated most explicitly. Everything Xanatos is saying is reasonable, and if he wasn't Xanatos, if it was someone like Winston saying it, I'd believe them. But it is Xanatos. Now, the thing is, even though he's lying, he's still right, and it's still something Doof should consider.

This is another bit I'm not 100% sure how to read. I may be still being fooled by Xanatos, but I do actually think there's a very slight amount of fondness/amusement here. Like, I think Xanatos is genuinely impressed by the growth Doof has shown, while still knowing that he's going to come out the overall victor.

The very fact Doof has even noticed this is probably already out of his previous expectations, and so when he says that he expects nothing less, he's thinking about the new Doof. His view is probably along the lines of "Yeah, I can't get something for literally nothing any more. I can still manipulate him and get what I want, but his resistance against being completely and totally fleeced is higher. Well, probably a good thing overall."

So, yeah. I think there is some genuine warmth when David says that, even as he still plans on manipulating Doof.

And yet, somewhere, Doof recognizes he's being manipulated. He's aware enough to feel uneasy, but not aware enough to notice where it's coming from. I'll admit, being in this state somehow feels even sadder than what was there previously. Before, it was basically totally divorced from reality, how Doof reacted to Xanatos. But here, we see Xanatos bringing out all of his manipulative chops, and it strikes far closer to reality.

(For people less familiar with Phineas and Ferb, Dr. Gevaarjilik really didn't like Doof, but he wanted to impress her with his evil anyways, yet he always failed. So, here, he feels like he's looking for approval, which, on some level, he knows he's not going to get. I'm not entirely sure how to interpret that in this context.)

So, here, Xanatos starts angling towards what he wants, having laid the groundwork. And interestingly, from this point on, he basically is honest. He pinpoints one of Doof's worries (which is often present in the thread, and thus in Doof's mind), and offers a potential solution. He's probably been thinking of this as an in the whole time, and now he's narrowing in on it, prepared to offer Doof a potential solution.

Also, quick aside to note the chess pieces here: the white microscope, David, is looming over the black screws, Doof. It represents how Xanatos is dominating this conversation. David picking up the screw is representative of him moving Doof closer to himself, in preparation for both promotion and for it to become a piece of his. Here, the chess metaphor gets a bit mixed up, unfortunately.

Meanwhile, Doof's responses are actually kind of interesting, here? First off, the bit about being honest being a death knell of most relationships… what's he actually referring to? Like, I guess it could be being honest with himself about his parents? But I'm not sure what else?

Second, he's looking for an angle, and, to be honest, Xanatos knows he's looking for an angle, wondering what Xanatos is up to. But he speaks anyways, because he actually does want to spill some of this stuff. Not sure who else he'd do it with, other than Technor, to be honest. Doof is fundamentally an open person, and hiding stuff isn't really how he rolls, even when he knows he should.

This is interesting, especially the last bit. At first, Doof is trying to act like he's confident, even when he knows he's not. The bit about traps is him lying to himself, and he knows it. The Roger thing, though… that's interesting, because it shows that Doof still has kind of internalized the stuff about Roger being better than him? It could also be a hint from the QMs that we should interact with Roger more.

Xanatos is being perfectly honest here, and that's… well, it's unsurprising, but it's good to know. Previously, when Doof thought he couldn't argue with what Xanatos was saying, he felt off-balance, because on some level he could tell he was being maneuvered. Doof isn't getting any sense of unease here, because Xanatos is speaking from the heart on some level.

The chess metaphor continues, Xanatos is preparing Doof for promotion, but also bringing him closer.

Also, Xanatos' hesitance is interesting. It's not real, obviously, but it's designed to create the sense that it's completely off the cuff, that he's just tossing an idea out at random, like this whole conversation hasn't been on some level manipulative.

Now, Xanatos' smile, which doesn't feel insulting. On one level, of course, it's put on. But, on another level? I think he genuinely may feel like it's not too bad a deal that he's offering, here. Sure, he's getting a look at DEI's inner workings, and he's getting a chance to really see through anything Doof does, but he's also genuinely giving Doof something pretty useful, he probably feels. I suspect, like a lot of us agree on, he doesn't actually think that this is a negative for Doof overall, even if it's nothing but upside for him.

I suspect he's also being serious when he talks about collaborating on big problems eventually.

Finally, more ellipses. Again, he's giving off the impression of being more hesitant than he really is, mirroring Doof's hesitancy when first revealing his worries to put Doof more at ease.

Here, Doof is picking up on the relevance of the objects on the counter. He doesn't know what they actually mean, but he can sense there's something there. Honestly, I might make a subvote for what to do with the screws, just because it feels right.

Now, here, he doesn't hide the trap. He knows Doof would likely realize it, and by admitting it, he gives us a feeling of security, and more importantly, control, exactly what Doof said he was lacking. It's a concession to Doof's comfort, and also avoids any future realizations.

Of course, when he says he's not trying to pressure Doof, well. He's not entirely wrong, pressure is the wrong word. Instead, it's more like he tilted the surface upon which Doof sits, leaning him towards one option unnoticeably. He has primed Doof to accept this, but he also recognizes Doof is unpredictable.

Xanatos is pitting two parts of Doof against one another: Doof's desire to have total control, against Doof's desire to not be failing, to not be bad at this. It's rather sad, but reasons beyond that will probably… not be really incorporated? Unless we're very lucky, of course. Personally, I feel like I would have been more receptive if Xanatos hadn't done all this manipulation before, and had come straight out and offered. But I'm not Doof.

So, yeah. We're kind of boxed in. The real question is… what's the important choice we already made? It's hard to actually pinpoint any one choice.


Anyways, in summary, I do feel that we shouldn't take the deal, not because it's a net negative for us (I don't think it is, especially not in Xanatos' eyes, although I do think potential bonding with Mirage shouldn't be underestimated), but because Xanatos has put us off balance and manipulated us into this position, and I feel like we're off balance enough that we shouldn't just take the deal.

Thus:
[X] Develop Your Center
-[X] Pick up the boxed in screw and use it somewhere in the Inator you're working on.

The subvote is… idk. It just feels right.
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I'm giving you 300xp for this extremely good analysis. Congratulations, you are officially the second person in this quest to almost understand what Xanatos is thinking.

We seem to be averaging about once a year.

But as for what you were missing, well. It's actually an issue, because it makes the metaphor the write-in was going for... not work so well. It implies that Doofenshmirtz is choosing his own path, rejecting Xanatos' paradigm, doing something under his own power. And that would have worked... if you'd actually understood Xanatos' misdirection. You see, while an easy route to get more information on Doofenshmirtz's actions is useful, it's certainly not necessary. And it's a costly action-investment.

And a shell game.

Xanatos doesn't offer options he isn't comfortable taking.

Doofenshmirtz started this interlude ready to be very mad at Xanatos. And when Doof is mad at people, he usually throws an Inator at them. Or a pyromaniac.

Xanatos went into this interlude with one goal: Distract Doofenshmirtz with enough of a binary choice that grants the illusion of independence that he forgets to be mad. And, well...

Yeah.

We're still using the write-in, but we're going to have to use it with a different tone than you'd intended, because, well...

It's exactly how doof would be thinking by taking this choice. And that's what Xanatos wanted.

We allow two characters to actively manipulate the voters, and only one of them knows you exist.
 
Arathnorn said:
Xanatos went into this interlude with one goal: Distract Doofenshmirtz with enough of a binary choice that grants the illusion of independence that he forgets to be mad. And, well...

Yeah.
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Oooh, so close. Ah well. I guess the reason I didn't even consider that was that OoC I knew we wouldn't ever do that (because Xanatos is Xanatos and we are, as this shows, rightly scared of him). Plus we can't actually target Inators. But in-universe, that makes total sense.

It also explains the problems with my analysis, so I'm going to look back over it.

BurnBright said:
This is another bit I'm not 100% sure how to read. I may be still being fooled by Xanatos, but I do actually think there's a very slight amount of fondness/amusement here. Like, I think Xanatos is genuinely impressed by the growth Doof has shown, while still knowing that he's going to come out the overall victor.
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So, here, I was totally off base. This smile isn't anything to do with being impressed- it's in response to what Doof says. Because the way Doof says it, he accepts the framing, and signals that he's not going to go after petty revenge. Thus, Xanatos smiles.

BurnBright said:
Now, Xanatos' smile, which doesn't feel insulting. On one level, of course, it's put on. But, on another level? I think he genuinely may feel like it's not too bad a deal that he's offering, here. Sure, he's getting a look at DEI's inner workings, and he's getting a chance to really see through anything Doof does, but he's also genuinely giving Doof something pretty useful, he probably feels. I suspect, like a lot of us agree on, he doesn't actually think that this is a negative for Doof overall, even if it's nothing but upside for him.
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I'm actually going to somewhat stick to this bit, though I suspect I'm missing something now. But overall, I'm going to trust Doof's instincts on this one, given he could feel he was being manipulated.

BurnBright said:
So, yeah. We're kind of boxed in. The real question is… what's the important choice we already made? It's hard to actually pinpoint any one choice.
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Obviously, the choice that was made was thinking about the offer at all, and not being mad at Xanatos. What I'd missed was that it was a choice Doof made, not any of us.
 
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