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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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I'm definitely conflicted on what to do here but whatever wins, I think that having Technor psychoanalyse Doof to see the results of this vote on him is a must for next turn.


edit: and, hey, if nothing else this does give us an easy source of potentially canon omakes regarding how our various heroes and the other kings react to this happening
 
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LoveMuffin is eccentric did no more harm than Lizzie who did attack the city, and created Genghis Khan and Encom the probram, who still has refugees, so letting them go may be wise, until their brand of insanity can be channeled in the right direction.
 
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Made in Heaven said:
The Commodore has taken notice of the patronage you've given his organization! A member of his family, Olivia Dickens, is now available to use as a free hero unit once per year! She does not grant an extra action and does not have loyalty, but also does not take up a unit slot. The Dickens may offer more rewards if you continue using them!

Public opinion has decreased sharply! Government opinion has decreased! You had to pay reparations for all of the property damage caused by LOVEMUFFIN and OWCA, costing you 3 income!

Jumba has amused himself by creating a massive biological beast modeled on the Long of China! The dragon has taken up roost in Castle Doofhawk, seems to like the city and, knowing Jumba, probably has some sort of horrific biological warfare techniques up its metaphorical sleeves. Not only that, the man… alien seems brimming with other new ideas. The results of Jumba's Experiment! roll are now weighted towards the positive. The beasts aren't viable for mass production due to the sheer bespoke work that goes into their genes, so you'll have to put your plans on creating a dragon army on hold.

There will be a twelve hour moratorium on voting.
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The Commodore forwarding one of his family as a once-a-year "free" Intrigue HU (as in "doesn´t take up one of our unit slots and doesn´t bleed our coffers/action economy dry in terms of loyalty maintenance) is very welcome, since thanks to us being strapped for easy cash and Russ as our best Intrigue guy being MIA right now, we can definitely use the help right now. But remember, guys: only once every six turns, mathematically speaking.

Jumbas PA now being slanted towards positive results is very good, since it´s essentially a second Inator roll in practice - although I´d rather not take advantage of that boon right now, since we still have to smooth over the PR and economy troubles of this turn.

As for...them:

Made in Heaven said:
LOVEMUFFIN adored their escapades and increased their loyalty by 15! They demand to be put on projects like this in the future!
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...How about "No and fuck off, you egocentrical wastes of human DNA!!!"?

Sorry for that outburst but that´s the straw that not only broke the camel´s back, that straw caused PETA and even the more mellow animal rights groups to get up in arms against us for nightmarish cruelty to animals.

Weird similes aside, I can´t believe that there are people who genuinely want to keep this maniacs - no, these *terrorists* - around and piss off actually useful HUs in the process.

Yes, we told them to "do Mad Science" and yes, we should have guessed something like this would happen with how unstable and egocentric those assholes are.

But they have shown quite clearly that they don´t respect our "claim" over the Tri-State Area one bit and expect us to *laude them for destroying our toys and hurting those under our protection/thumb*

Do you think that the Joker would just shrug and nod upon some two-bit idiot like the Toymaker stirring up shit in "HIS" city? Nope, Mistah J would obliterate that whacko with extreme prejudice.

Granted, Doof is nowhere near as homicidal as Joker, but *He is about as petty as the Clown*...and now those idiots went ahead and fucked up things for who is their FUCKING BOSS.

Again, while we DID essentially gave them carte blanche to do whatever they want just to not hear their moping for a single turn, that´s only more reason to own up to that error in judgement since as their boss, their fuckups implicitly and - as seen during the convo between Russ and *His* boss at the FBI - EXPLICITLY as well reflect back at us and make us look like a fucking national threat. Honestly, I wouldn´t be surprised if some in D. C. are banging the drums of war against us right now because of that and are only being kept at bay by David working a bit of his magic because we still have enough goodwill with him for Xanatos to at least consider this and accident/oversight on our part and not a deliberate chest-thumping at Uncle Sam´s address.

Let´s face it: LM are a relic of the "Old Doof Era", where we didn´t give a hoot about others until things went our way and where things were just a game for us and OWCA. But these times *are gone*. For better or worse, Doof is now an authority figure and person of the public life. What we do will have big repurcussions for us and those close to us.

Mind you, I am NOT saying, that we should abandon all zaniness and become "bargain-bin Xanatos" at all or that we should just quietly drop that whole "Supreme Ruler of the Tri-State Area" Shtick - I am simply saying, that we should be *smart* about how to apply our Card-Carrying Evil Mad Scientist spiel in order to profit from it instead of being hindered by it.

For example: Nobody is saying that our new product line of power armor for the Army can´t include wacky tchotchkes like a cup-holder or a coffee machine - heck, I expect that kind of stuff to become a big selling point among many jarheads on the field far away from any amenities. No, I simply don´t want our power armor to end up boiling those soldiers alive within thanks to the water leaking.

So yeah, chaos is all fine and dandy for me...until it blows up in our face like that
 
Alright, so, I stand on the side of not arresting LOVEMUFFIN. Gonna try and lay out my reasons below.

First, the mechanical reasons.

Despite their general reputation and how they're viewed in thread, LOVEMUFFIN have actually been a really big help over the course of the Quest. Their extra action has put in some serious work, giving us things like Khan or the original DoofOS. Yes, they set us back with this last turn, but their net effect over the course of the Quest is still very positive. An extra action is absurdly potent, and we're pretty far away from unlocking any other Hero Balls who could offer the same.

Secondly, I see people saying that LOVEMUFFIN's usefulness is fading fast now that we've run out of low DC things that we can put them on. This completely ignores how we're planning on seriously pushing a Council Unlock in the next couple of turns. If the Council works like we think it does and lets us add the Council Member's stat to every action taken in that category, LOVEMUFFIN's options increase dramatically. We could put them on Commit Supervillainy, where they'd succeed on anything but a Nat 1! A whole bunch more super cool learning actions open up that I'm sure they'd be glad to do. Heck, their stat sheet indicates that they actually like working on DoofOS, given they got mad when Alan 'stole it' from them. With the Council unlock, we could feasibly put LOVEMUFFIN on more difficult/important actions, both making them much easier to manage and much more useful in general.


And now for the narrative reasons.

The first one I've got is relatively broadly applicable. That is, throughout the entire Quest we've seen that Red Text is generally very bad, and absolutely not something to be poked. If ya'll are going to vote for firing LOVEMUFFIN, please, please be prepared for the consequences. Things like the details of some of our more secretive Hero Units and/or projects getting sold out to other Kings in the best case scenario, or as a worst case scenario LOVEMUFFIN joining another King like Doom and giving them an extra action every turn specifically focused on hampering us, as LOVEMUFFIN focuses everything on achieving revenge.


And this one is more of a personal opinion, but I want this Quest to include villainy. I know some people don't want that, but I do. I want us to Do Crimes. I don't want to reach out to the US or negotiate rejoining the union, no matter how 'optimal' that is. So kicking out Supervillains because we gave them free reign to be Supervillains for one turn is absolutely not something I'm willing to accept. It's like... this is Disney Villains Victorious. Emphasis on Villains. What's even the point of playing as one if we refuse to actually do any villainy? LOVEMUFFIN's kind of goofball mad science is precisely why a Quest with Doofenshmirtz as the main character is interesting! That was the main draw for me, and I'm sure a few others as well! Just, I don't want to change from being a cool, fun villain to being Evil In Name Only. Inflicting chaos, being megalomaniacal... that stuff's fun. I like that stuff. I want this Quest to actually do that occasionally, and not just devolve into "purely good guy Doofenshmirtz saves the world with the power of friendship!". Like, I'm fine with doing good things or saving the world. We live there, after all. Heck, I'm with with most of our actions being 'good guy' things. But I want us to do some Evil at least some of the time.


Just... it feels like the heart and soul of this Quest has been slipping away for a while now. From the repeated discussions in thread about rejoining the US, which would involve Doofenshmirtz undoing the one bit of successful villainy he's actually carried out. To the fact that we've utterly refused to take the Commit Supervillainy action, despite there being minimal chance of failure. What's even the point of playing as an evil mad scientist if you refuse to do any evil mad scientist things? We talk about being a villain and doing bad things, but when have we actually done anything like that? It feels like we've taken the original premise of "you're a villain who wants to take over the world, try and do that" and stretched and shifted it until we ended up as a force for good who wants to save the world and will only tolerate villains so long as they don't do anything actively bad. I dunno, maybe it's my fault for misreading the tone of the Quest. But I figured something where we played as a villain in a setting called villains victorious would include being a villain as a core premise.





I guess just to sum up, my points are thus: For broadly applicable reasons to keep LOVEMUFFIN, they've been absurdly useful and are slated to become even more so once the Council is set up, and the consequences for Red Text are generally really bad. And for a personal reason to keep them, villainy is fun and I want to see more of it in Quest, and firing LOVEMUFFIN seems counter to that goal.
 
KidFromPallet said:
I don't want to change from being a cool, fun villain to being Evil In Name Only
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I think for me a big difference is that I have always seen Doof as an Evil in Name Only in this quest. Even his victory in the backstory was an accident not an act of greater villainy.

Yes we are in Disney Villains Victorious a world careening towards its own downfall and for that the best thing we can do is help to prevent the worst and not dance on the ashes.

This Doof cares about the well being of the people of "his" city and of his employees,.
We are actually doing multiple things for the greater good, stopping Doom is mostly for the good of Toons any other thing we get along the way is just a nice bonus, IC we are trying to stop Toffe because of our compassion towards a teenager, we prevented the famine in our territory, stomped the crime in our territory and many more.

I don't say we completely leave the zaniness behind, I don't want us to become diet Xanatos like some fear, give up our in name only reign, stop calling ourselves evil or anything like that.
I want us to pick our battles, we are now in a setting with consequence, one we will not last if we stand alone or don't think about tomorrow.
 
My other thing with keeping LM around is at this point we're going to start pissing everyone else off in order to keep them.

In the short term they're probably useful, but keeping them longer term means we have to put a serious amount of effort that I'm not sure is even worth it. Even short term I really don't want to tank Monogram's progress, especially since we're this close.
 
KidFromPallet said:
This completely ignores how we're planning on seriously pushing a Council Unlock in the next couple of turns.
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The issue with this is that, say for Learning, we would be adding that stat to a hero who is already pretty damn good.

LOVEMUFFIN isn't. At best with the Council we would be able to put them on stuff like weather control.

If we keep them they will keep on costing us 3 or so income any time we have them do something which will make them happy.

Keeping LOVEMUFFIN is how you get the Federal government to start seriously considering drone striking DEI Headquarters. They are Not Happy about this escapade in the least.
 
Keeping LOVEMUFFIN is out of the question, because we can not risk having the government or Xanatos become our enemy (especially Xanatos). Also, keeping LOVEMUFFIN is only going to ensure that we will have to deal with more costly crit fails (like the one from now), so I feel like that, even with the red text on the arrest option, we will be better off in the long run arresting the liability that is LOVEMUFFIN rather than tolerating them any longer.
 
Eh, getting rid of LOVEMUFFIN seems to be the path to No Villainy, which is a turn off for me.

Really just dislike weaning Doof of villainy just for the sake of it. We'd be betraying the brand.
 
MrHobbit said:
The issue with this is that, say for Learning, we would be adding that stat to a hero who is already pretty damn good.

LOVEMUFFIN isn't. At best with the Council we would be able to put them on stuff like weather control.
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Yes, but it is still a free action, and with Council boosts there should be no chance of them critfailing.

Like, let's take a look at actions that LOVEMUFFIN would probably be willing to do that wouldn't have a chance of critfailing after council buffs.

Doof's + Ludivine's (most likely for Council spot because of Omnidisciplinary) + LOVEMUFFIN's combined Learning is 38+40+14 = 92

Divide 92 by (2/3) to get 138. The actual number should be a bit higher because of Loyalty from Ludivine, so let's say that with the Council LOVEMUFFIN is out of critfail range on DCs less than or equal to 140, which is our entire list of Learning Actions except for Genetic Diseases, Superpowers, and Odd Transmissions. They would get a chance to play around with our entire Learning Action list, except for the very tippy-top stuff, without any more risk than normal of a critfail.


There's also Commit Supervillainy, a Martial Action that becomes flat out impossible to fail outside of nat 1's if Khan takes the Martial Council seat. Not that I expect people to vote for it, but that's an example of an action that LOVEMUFFIN would like to do while also being impossible for them to fail once we get the Council set up.

LOVEMUFFIN has also indicated that they're willing to do some Stewardship actions, so long as it's building/creating something and they get to do it in a mad sciencey way, as evidenced by them being upset that we wouldn't let them work on DoofOS anymore. Assuming that we put Roddy Blair in the Council Slot for Stewardship, LOVEMUFFIN Stewardship actions would be rolling at a 24+29+8, or +61. Doing the divide by 2/3 method to find actions they can safely take, we find that they can safely take actions with a DC of 90 or less and not risk a critfail. You know what has a DC less than 90, is something we'd want to take a bunch of times, and seems right up LOVEMUFFIN's alley? Constructing a Robot Doppelganger Body.


So yes, they're not going to be hitting the highest DCs, but the Council still provides a means for LOVEMUFFIN to become absurdly more useful while also letting them work on more important/prestigious projects to play to their egos, while still safeguarding against critfails outside of a Nat 1.

MrHobbit said:
If we keep them they will keep on costing us 3 or so income any time we have them do something which will make them happy.
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Let's be real, the consequences for the failure this turn absolutely isn't indicative of normal LOVEMUFFIN failing an action results. Judging by Commit Supervillainy, Mad Science likely would have had some of the opinion/income penalties even if they had succeeded, which were just amplified by the result being a critfail. So long as we actually think about the consequences of what we assign LOVEMUFFIN to, something like this turn shouldn't happen again.

MrHobbit said:
Keeping LOVEMUFFIN is how you get the Federal government to start seriously considering drone striking DEI Headquarters. They are Not Happy about this escapade in the least.
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So? Opinion is a resource, it exists to be spent. We've already complied with most of their demands in having Russ as a watcher, and are preparing to work more closely with them, either through Xanatos or directly. Other Kings being unhappy with our Hero Units shouldn't be grounds for removing those Hero Units, given what we plan to do with the Star Vs cast and Toffee.
 
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I think that, to make a truly informed decision, we need to know the DCs of some possible write-ins that would satisfy LOVEMUFFIN. Additionally, I want to know the feasibility of having them build their own equivalent of an Inator and firing it, because they've just demonstrated they should be capable of it.
 
I am very against the write ins.

We have plenty of higher level learning actions they can attempt.

Kinda a moot point though. I really doubt this vote is going to be close.
 
MrHobbit said:
Oh that is a fucking bullshit comparison.

What Doom did and continues to do is genocide. This is just character growth.
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Nah, not talking about the genocide. More about the economic squeeze happening to them killing their industry.

With Doof gone, nobody else will be able to fill in his previous role of being basically a (non edgy/serious) toon villain. After all, we practically brought most of those with the ability under our wing already.

Like Jumba, Technor, Tobe, Wille (the now upgraded version we have at least) could take Doof's place in the wider area.

While Lizzy, Ludvine, Janna, Kitsune, Genghis, Dennis (?), LOVE MUFFIN and Janus (too serious a villain probably) are only a maybe.

Who else could (or would) attempt to take up the zany Mad Scientist hole Doof would leave behind?
 
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KidFromPallet said:
Yes, but it is still a free action, and with Council boosts there should be no chance of them critfailing.
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The first issue with that is that we do not know how the Council will work. It might just replace Doof's stat with the Councilman's, or perhaps add half of theirs to the roll.

The second issue, and the one you continually ignore, all of the Martial/Stewardship/Learning/ect actions we have LOVEMUFFIN will absolutely hate. They will rack up even more Loyalty maluses and we'll get to deal with this bullshit again.

They want to do Mad Science. They don't want to do anything productive.

Opinion fucking matters because it makes doing things much easier. LOVEMUFFIN doing things that makes them happy will tank our PR every other turn and destroy our finances.

TimEd said:
Nah, not talking about the genocide. More about the economic squeeze happening to them killing their industry.

With Doof gone, nobody else will be able to fill in his previous role of being basically a (non edgy/serious) toon villain. After all, we practically brought most of those with the ability under our wing already.

Like Jumba, Technor, Tobe, Wille (the now upgraded version we have at least) could take Doof's place in the wider area.

While Lizzy, Ludvine, Janna, Kitsune, Genghis, Dennis (?), LOVE MUFFIN and Janus (too serious a villain probably) are only a maybe.

Who else could (could or would) attempt to take up the zany Mad Scientist hole Doof would leave behind?
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Ah, then this is a perfect comparison!

American Toons were/LOVEMUFFIN was tiring out the Public/Questers so they decided to watch Anime/get rid of LOVEMUFFIN instead of dealing with tainted products.

Doof will continue to do Mad Science. He just has the sense to confine it to his Inators of which he only successfully activates six in a year. Out of three hundred and sixty five.
 
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In terms of keeping LM around, I feel like there are some significant issues.

1. First of all short term this feels like putting a bandaid on a problem that's been lingering for a long time. Personally I don't value LM enough to tank Monogram's progress at the finish line for immediate consequences, especially since we just lost Russ for the foreseeable future
2. Keeping them around the way we have to sets a very dangerous precedent.
-LM is absolutely going to expect that they'll be put on more stuff like this in the future.
-if something like this happens in the future we're going to have to go through this again, except at minimum Monogram just tanked progress and maybe our PR will be about the same
-If we don't put them on stuff like this, they might take it as a worse betrayal because we gave them a sign that we'd like them to do this type of thing and then held them back from it
-and I'm not even sure if they'll be fine with the current mad science stuff we do have, because us taking them back implies we're happy with what they did and they'll see it as a reasonable and probable thing they can hope to work on. If they're unhappy with something in the future they're absolutely going to point to this mess and ask "why can't we do this again"
 
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