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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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Emagstar said:
It would require a truly frightening degree of competence on the part of the PRT to figure out that worship and not 'weird tinker juice' is powering some of Apeiron's actions. I think he's safe.
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Why do people always describe the PRT figuring out relatively difficult things as requiring competence; even saying that they'd need a lot of it, the implication always seems to be that they aren't competent because some other organization would have had all Joe's weirdness figured out easy. Somehow.
KSn5Ynoh said:
Also, I'm just imagining Joe taking down an Endbringer, and the next day calling Weld physically sick to tell him he's taking the day off to deal with all the worship.
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You just made me realize: if Joe's idea that this perk may have introduced mantra to the world beyond facilitating his perk is correct, a lot of celebrities and religious figures probably started exploding across the world this chapter.

(I don't really think this is the case, but jeez would that be one hell of an upset. Imagine if dealing with that ended up as Joe's first global project.)
Rem Freeman said:
but also how Victor might have been affecting people on their own team.
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Didn't someone literally mention a while back how Victor stole some of Rune's speech therapy as a power move? I don't think they'll be that surprised by Victor's reach. Nor do I think Victor's presence in their group has actually reduced them to bumbling incompetents, because that would be ridiculous.
 
TitanFrost said:
Didn't someone literally mention a while back how Victor stole some of Rune's speech therapy as a power move? I don't think they'll be that surprised by Victor's reach. Nor do I think Victor's presence in their group has actually reduced them to bumbling incompetents, because that would be ridiculous.
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If they did, I completely missed that, so thanks for the heads up. As for the reaction, I'm not saying that his presence has turned them into idiots, though I do think them being Nazis already checks that box. I'm suggesting that there may be some arguments or accusations from others in the E88 that Victor might have pulled similar power moves on before without them being aware of what was going on. Such a thing might be a bit of a long shot given how well-known Victor's powers might be within the gang, but you never know.
 
TitanFrost said:
You just made me realize: if Joe's idea that this perk may have introduced mantra to the world beyond facilitating his perk is correct, a lot of celebrities and religious figures probably started exploding across the world this chapter.

(I don't really think this is the case, but jeez would that be one hell of an upset. Imagine if dealing with that ended up as Joe's first global project.)
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Mantra doesn't just act, from my understanding it has to be channelled to have any effect. That's what the Dupes were setting up in the Lab.
gthesob said:
Sharing the livestream openly online would be a good source for an unexpected amount of worship.
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The idea was that the Shards were causing insane mantra overloads, but I didn't depict that clearly enough :/
 
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Hauntred said:
So I had a chat with the original author of the Asuras Wrath Jump (where the perks in the CF were taken from) over at the BCF Discord (Join us, become us)

He specified that no, mantra cannot be multiplied by resource/construction perks because of how mantra works as an expression of the sentience/emotions of a being.

Also a lot of people are sleeping on mantras power it seems. Here's the power levels according to the original doc :
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This actually matters little for the purpose of this story, as inter jump rules aren't really a thing. He might bar crafting perks from the jump from multiplying mantra, but that still leaves every other perk that Joe has. Not to mention I can't really find any rules about this in the jump doc, so it's more like his personal fanwanking (unless I missed it). Jumpchain is single player anyways, so Lord can play it as he sees fit.
 
TitanFrost said:
Didn't someone literally mention a while back how Victor stole some of Rune's speech therapy as a power move? I don't think they'll be that surprised by Victor's reach. Nor do I think Victor's presence in their group has actually reduced them to bumbling incompetents, because that would be ridiculous.
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they're nazis, being bumbling incompetents comes with the territory. people with both intelligence and morals don't become nazis (or at the very least, they grow out of it).
 
Kurohime said:
oh....OH. Well, someone know their mythology!
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Or maybe she suddenly remembered that someone had a sword in her throat, someone she didn't notice until Apeiron called her by a name with a simple implication: an assassin she didn't remember coming close to her, didn't remember pulling a sword at her, forgot that she still had a sword pointed at her throat, is named after the greek river of forgetfulness.

One really have to remember sometimes that only the CF crew remember that Aisha exist when she is using her powers.
 
Mesaphrom said:
Or maybe she suddenly remembered that someone had a sword in her throat, someone she didn't notice until Apeiron called her by a name with a simple implication: an assassin she didn't remember coming close to her, didn't remember pulling a sword at her, forgot that she still had a sword pointed at her throat, is named after the greek river of forgetfulness.

One really have to remember sometimes that only the CF crew remember that Aisha exist when she is using her powers.
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Joe remembers she exists but forgets anything that happened involving her after the last Throne Memory Reinforcement whenever her power is active. Aisha didn't have her power active except to sneak up on Othala, after that she kept it suppressed because otherwise Othala would have forgotten about the sword, walked forward, and have been decapitated.
 
sonicyoash said:
Joe remembers she exists but forgets anything that happened involving her after the last Throne Memory Reinforcement whenever her power is active. Aisha didn't have her power active except to sneak up on Othala, after that she kept it suppressed because otherwise Othala would have forgotten about the sword, walked forward, and have been decapitated.
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With Ren and her armor, she can control who forgets about her and who doesn't.
 
The Froggy Ninja said:
I also liked Othala clocking the name. Also, I'm fairly certain Joe has verbally referenced the Celestial Forge at least once before.
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I think that might have been when he was talking to Aisha about the Wishes being Zoids. That was an error that Lord has corrected.
LordRoustabout said:
There was movement from Faultline's crew as they prepared for whatever was coming.
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C in crew needs capitalizing.
LordRoustabout said:
There was a slight glow as a low power particle beam fired out with surgical precision, singing words into the paper.
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singeing
TitanFrost said:
Actually, yeah. Joe could protect his brain pretty easy at this point. He oughta get on that. It's not like it's being purposefully ignored so certain threats can stay threats; Victor (and most other parahumans) could get bodied easily for trying and the Simurgh can't see him anymore. Just a weird oversight. Are we sure Joe doesn't have some kind of mind protection built in already?
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Like in akatoshslayer's post which you acknowledged in your reply. Master/Stranger effects are really broad and varied in mechanism so finding a universal non-fiat backed method would take time and research. Victor is also not a Master, he's a Stranger (meaning it doesn't test Joe's anti-mind-control defenses), it's skill theft with "deterioration with data acquisition of memory engrams of cognitive neural structures" so hard to say how much Joe's current defenses will work.

Joe does have some kind of mind protection built in already. He has his demigod nature, nature of memories, implant, nanites, his divine heart that strengthens his spirit/soul connection/control to the body, his inhuman memories and thought process, military willpower, aspects of his inhuman hybrid physiology, Player Pin, etc.

Also, while the flickering in and out of Joe's trail might be seen as due to Joe keeping his attention away from Victor, I see it as it sometimes not working and sometimes is. The trails are diminished for Aisha and Tybalt and they too are probably keeping their attention away yet theirs doesn't flicker. I think for Joe it's on and off because of how he does have some resistance to it (his master/stranger defenses plus the nature of his skills) and there's times when the skill theft fails against that resistance and times when it doesn't.
 
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Mourning Glory said:
I think you moss spelt this.

Thanatos is the God of Death, the moment you die, and till you get to the underworld.

Hades is the God of the dead,he is in charge of your soul and how you are treated in the afterlife, actual calling hades the God of the afterlife is pretty accurate.
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Perhaps I didn't structure my sentence properly, because this is exactly what I was getting at?
 
Mojave Courier said:
He did that in Ward which is years from now.
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Does anything in Ward imply that this is new behavior born of him becoming even worse as a person? If not, I'd kind of assume it's indicative of long-standing patterns of behavior in regard to power use.
Saugo said:
This actually matters little for the purpose of this story, as inter jump rules aren't really a thing. He might bar crafting perks from the jump from multiplying mantra, but that still leaves every other perk that Joe has. Not to mention I can't really find any rules about this in the jump doc, so it's more like his personal fanwanking (unless I missed it). Jumpchain is single player anyways, so Lord can play it as he sees fit.
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I think Lord actually gives priority to the word of Jumpdoc authors when they speak on topics like this.
MagicalAmbitions said:
they're nazis, being bumbling incompetents comes with the territory. people with both intelligence and morals don't become nazis (or at the very least, they grow out of it).
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I don't disagree, but sadly Nazis have never been so incompetent and stupid that they couldn't organize well enough to shit things up for everyone else. Probably doesn't help in this case that the E88's leader isn't a true believer, just a manipulator making use of his maliciously immature soldiers. People acting like Joe taking the opportunity to dunk on Nazis (love to see it) means that they're now jokes villains that were defeating themselves all along just annoys me a bit.
 
TitanFrost said:
Does anything in Ward imply that this is new behavior born of him becoming even worse as a person? If not, I'd kind of assume it's indicative of long-standing patterns of behavior in regard to power use.
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The fact that there is no mention of such behavior in the story of Worm probably indicates as such. And given how drastically different the circumstances are between Victor's situation in Worm and his situation in Ward, we can't really tell that his behavior's remained the same.
 
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MagicalAmbitions said:
they're nazis, being bumbling incompetents comes with the territory. people with both intelligence and morals don't become nazis (or at the very least, they grow out of it).
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That goes double for neo-nazis. Some nazis(not saying all of them) can have the excuse of being blinded by patriotism in making their country great again after getting fucked by the first war, but neo nazis are just dickheads who have nothing better to do and do it to make themselves feel better.
 
Mojave Courier said:
The fact that there is no mention of such behavior in the story of Worm probably indicates as such. And given how drastically the circumstances are between Victor's situation in Worm and his situation in Ward, we can't really tell that his behavior's remained the same.
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I know very little about Ward beyond some broad strokes, and basically nothing about what situation Victor is in during its events, but that sounds like the kind of thing I meant when I asked for examples of anything that would have changed his behavior. Desperate situations pushing people to act out and all that; at least I assume he's in more of a desperate situation.
 
I know Final Fantasy 13 is Excluded from the rolls right now, but I have a question:
Antimatter Manipulation Principle (Final Fantasy 13) (200)
You understand the science at work behind Cocoon's technology. You may not have the equipment to reproduce it, but you can manipulate gravity to a limited degree even without it – enough to save you from falls.

With the suitable tools however, you could make all sorts of equipment and mechanical wonders, even up to graviton cores that can maintain giant aerial defence platforms.
Antimatter Temporal Principle (Final Fantasy 13-3) (200)
The same antimatter manipulation principle developed by the scientists of ancient Academia was banned by the Fal'Cie Pandaemonium in the recent years, and all its researchers – vanished. After careful research, you've come to realize why. Through extensive manipulation, Chaos itself can be controlled with AMP, and while the degree of control you can exert on it is limited – even you can stop time for five seconds at will. However, you also move at a reduced pace, as the sheer effort of manifesting this unnatural phenomenon drains you in more ways than simply energy.

After trying this twice in rapid succession, you found yourself completely drained, but if you alone could perform such a feat even significant support from any piece of ancient AMP technology – then perhaps the Fal'Cie banned it out of fear that it would evolve to something greater…

Without this research available, and with most of the team lost, you wonder if it would have been impossible otherwise to reconstruct this technology. After all, only the significant presence of Chaos provoked the research to begin with, long after Gran Pulse had fallen.
Okay, I am confused. I looked it up online and it wasn't clear, so can someone please tell me if they are actually using Antimatter to do this stuff, and if so, how.
 
The Shallow said:
The idea was that the Shards were causing insane mantra overloads, but I didn't depict that clearly enough :/
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I got that, I was just proposing an alternate scenario based on your hidden camera.

Getting a worship based power just as he gets broadcasted while attending the meeting and impressing everyone in a more positive way than the Lung fight would be one hell of a timely boost and maybe the seed that leads to more.
 
MagicalAmbitions said:
they're nazis, being bumbling incompetents comes with the territory. people with both intelligence and morals don't become nazis (or at the very least, they grow out of it).
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Don't confuse "morally repugnant" and "incompetent", especially for the leaders. You don't stay relevant in a 4 way gang war (with the PRT, ABB and merchant) without at least a modicrum of competence.

This chapter wasn't Kaiser acting like an idiot (heck, grabbing Damsel of Distress and Purity was a smart move). This chapter was Apeiron acting like an Outside Context Problem by bringing a team of parahuman on his level and being able to detect Victor's power. This completely blindsided Kaiser. "Plans don't survive contact with Apeiron" indeed.

Kurohime said:
oh....OH. Well, someone know their mythology!
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Mesaphrom said:
Or maybe she suddenly remembered that someone had a sword in her throat, someone she didn't notice until Apeiron called her by a name with a simple implication: an assassin she didn't remember coming close to her, didn't remember pulling a sword at her, forgot that she still had a sword pointed at her throat, is named after the greek river of forgetfulness.
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It get worst the longer you think on it. Othala deduced she was a stranger (and not a mover like Fleet) with her cape name and reaction to Victor, which means her power is strong enough to manipulate the whole room in real time (since nobody reacted). And obviously she's equiped with Apetech. She can walk in broad daylight, assassinate someone, and nobody can stop her.

In short, Othala realized that Lethe alone could trivially wipe the E88. Even their new trump card, Damsel, can't protect them if they piss off Apeiron.
 
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