- Pronouns
- Male
That's coil though. Not precognition
Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
- Thread starter LordRoustabout
- Start date
I said "contributing", not "causing". An additional stressor that would make it easier for events following her father's heart attack to push her over the edge into triggering.
{EDIT} I was initially mistaken. Her trigger event wasn't her father's death, but the isolation/solitude that came afterwards; her father's death removed her family, while the incident with Joe removed friends and cut her off from her fellow students. Her power then gave her the ability to create/control simulacrum companions, providing a superficial solution that doesn't really address the actual issue.
| Cape | Trigger Event | Power | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|
| Hanna / Miss Militia | Child Soldier, recruited at gunpoint | Can manifest and use any weapon | Allowed her to kill & escape her captors, but resulted in her being pushed into the Wards — effectively still a Child Soldier, just for a different group |
| Dennis / Clockblocker | Father's cancer | Can freeze objects & people in time | Lets him keep his father around for longer, but doesn't actually let them interact for any more time. |
| Lisa / Tattletale | Brother's suicide | Super-intuition | Exactly the power that would have let her know about her brother's depression and impending suicide, and even help prevent it — if she'd received it earlier. |
| Shawn / Dauntless | Trapped by mudslide, had to perform emergency C-section on his girlfriend | Can charge/empower items, allowing them to grant him additional power/abilities | Power is entirely based around preparation, making it significantly less useful in unexpected scenarios or emergencies that he hadn't planned for. |
| Joe / [REDACTED] | Social issues, and controlling/abusive family | Biotinker, specialising in mental conditioning and control. | Lets him control his family, in a gruesomely literal manner, and could even help him to make Sabah like him back. |
| Joe / Apeiron | Social issues, and controlling/abusive family | Celestial Forge | Not a Zion/Eden power, actually provides help towards overcoming the issues that lead to his trigger event, rather than simply side-stepping them and allowing them to fester. |
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- Location
- Earth
Miss Militia wasn't a Child Soldier. She was used as a living mine detector by soldiers along with a gaggle of other children. A couple blew up before it was her turn.
- Location
- Up on a Hill
As far as Wildbow WoG is concerned Coil is just another simulation-based precog. If we're going to assume that that doesn't make much sense and alter that to be more in line with how we interpret the canon text itself, why would we limit that "weird precog shit" to just him?
What sounds more likely for a species designed to research exotic phenomena:
1. Parahuman powers may seem superficially similar in their limited human expressions, but Shards all do their own weird stuff because they all exist to test specific things (and/or to guide the network on a wider scale, but still). Therefore, precog shards probably all have their own weird shit beyond simulation they're testing out, at least for the most part.
2. All Precog shards do exactly the same thing exactly the same way, but one of them also has a bit of weird shit thrown in for some reason.
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- Location
- Brazil
- Pronouns
- He
You know, I wait patiently for Dennis trying to broker an deal with aperion to heal his father, expecting a huge price and him going "ah, Ok"
The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
- Location
- Your Universe
- Pronouns
- She/They
Dennis: "I can give you 20 grand, please just cure my Dad! He has cancer and his time is running out!"
Joe: "..."
Dennis: "Please!"
Joe: "...20 cents and I cure him, give you the formula for the cancer cure, and full documentation."
Dennis:
On this idea, I like to imagine him "accidentally" leaving various formulas and documentation behind during the next hack-battle with Dragon.
Well the thing is people have Shards assigned to them. Their power is just filtered through the lens of their Trigger. IIRC There a WOG where Wildbow said that if Danny triggered he'd get Rat Control no matter what, but that if it was due to Annette's death, he would be making an Annette-like construct through Rat Control.
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I've pointed it out before, but I'll say it again: he is lying. Being literally accurate means nothing in the real world. Pretty much everything he is trying to imply by "I am staying with a friend" is not true.
- Location
- Not here. Maybe on SB.
I think he said that exatctly about Coil's power.
And I agree with that, btw - Coil's power doesn't make sense if one tries to use WoG that it's a precognition-then puppeteering. Though, without said WoG his power don't have much sense too.
Since Coil is vial cape, I think that wasn't a "live" Shard like for natural Triggers, but mix of several Shards fragments that resulted in "kinda precognitive but not really weird shit".
You forgot "body modification", I think. Or "monster making". Or "monster making through body modification".
The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
- Location
- Your Universe
- Pronouns
- She/They
His specialties would have been Neurochemistry and Bioengineering.
He's been pretty clear that his job is various oddjobs (repair, deliveries, etc) around the area which are paying him well enough. As for not giving them details on his friend, it's made sense in context. Midnight texts is not the place to state specifics, and during a stressful call is not the place to elaborate unless it comes up. Also, Mom's, and by extension Alena's, problem with Joe isn't him lying, it's that he's "playing games"/"messing around"/"being selfish".
1. Lying isn't automatically bad; so what if he's lying? Does his family have a right to know where and what he's doing?
2. What is he trying to imply that is untrue? "I can't leave the city, I am needed" certainly checks out, he also explicitly told Alena that he'll be helping recovery efforts. I guess "You won't find me at home" is not quite accurate, but it's not like he's gonna open the door and invite them in for a chat if they suddenly show up.
Subrosian_Smithy
endless
- Location
- Washington
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Hers
It's because she hides her true power.
Actually, I've checked, and it appears I was wrong; her trigger event was not her father dying from heart attack. She triggered from being isolated & alone after her father died, which was even more clearly exacerbated by events with Joe.
In that light, her power allowing her to make puppet-friends does tie into her trigger event. (Again, while only providing a superficial solution, rather than an actual one)
I will go back and edit my earlier post to reflect that. (In either case, I'm aware of the "true" use-case of her power, and took that into account when making my original statement; the issue was that I was mistaken over her trigger event, not her power.)
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Parian's power works on skin. Using it on puppets is not what the power intended.
It"s easy to interpret almost any power to be a superficial solution to almost anything. "Vista didn't like hearing her parents argue, so she got the ability to stop time so she didn't have to listen to them." "Vista hated that her parents didn't get along, so she got the power to summon bugs that always get along."
Was there actually any Word of God from LordRoustabout about whether Brockton's Celestial Forge is Canon Compliant or an Alternate Universe?
Because while Sabah apparently clearly stated no from her perspective, Joe is (or at least was shown to be in near every chapter) social competent enough to be able to recognize a somewhat clear No. Cultural differences do exist, but with something as important as this was Sabah would have given it some serious thought to 1. make the rejection clear even in Modern Western Culture (given that the language Barrier would have seriously hammered the existence of Difference in Cultures in) and 2. ensure that the fallout is minor enough that her studies would not suffer much.
Sabah's Reaccounting of the Situation makes it clearly seem like Joe was just a pushy asshole who had to be publicly rejected to finally stop only to then discredit her afterwards.
On the other Sides Joe's Reaccounting makes Sabah look like a lying Bitch who led him on to profit from him and publicly made a Scene when he finally spoke plainly. And maybe it is only my extreme Personal Distaste and near Hatred for lying Scum (at least when they lie about minor inconveniences), but I'd more likely trust Joe's Reaccounting considering his Environment, Personality and Therapy all encourage looking at past behavior (and thus his Reaccounting would me more accurate) and analyzing it even if the first one only encourages finding the eventual root of all problems solely at Joe's Feet. Yes Joe could have handled the situation better, but to compare a somewhat socially challenged Person with someone who isn't speaking either truthfully and or plainly and then blows up when they have to speak directly is just confusing to me.
You can't lie by implication. Furthermore Alena did not ask for personal Information on his friend and argued/patronized with arguments that ranged from "Joe are you sure you aren't being used" to "Joe you are highly likely being a bother to your Friend", this is not any sort of argumentation she is just trying to get him home or contact his Mother with any means necessary even if they contradict each other.
I'd also have to disagree with "Pretty much everything he is trying to imply by ... is not true".
He isn't available at his home (IIRC he is sitting in a disguised closet in Garment's Shop)
He isn't in any immediate Danger (he is potentially the most secure Person on the Planet bar Scion)
He has pressing concerns in the following hours and days (a near vital Therapy Session along with a City redefining Villain Meeting)
He has a friend to look after (this is more semantical by simply him using Singular while it is Plural, but ensuring Taylor's Safety along with the Undersiders can literally safe the world or of some moderate villainous Teenage criminals)
So every information that IS actually important for his family was correct.
Joe is the most powerful Parahuman in existence, has literally infinite Potential and could potentially fix every Problem on Earth Bet IF he just has the time to actually handle them. He simply does not have the time for something as trivial as the Validation of 3 (maybe 4 with his unknown father) somewhat blood-related humans and while I normally do not condone lying this is one of the few cases where the full truth would have simply heaped one problem after another (not to forget the near certainty of Joe's Family ratting him out to the PRT fOr HiS oWn SAfEtItY) on Joe.
So simply telling the Truth (as I mentioned above he did for the important Info), but simply NOT fully opening up about his entire Situation to his abusive Family is not only the practical Option it is also the right option.
Because while Sabah apparently clearly stated no from her perspective, Joe is (or at least was shown to be in near every chapter) social competent enough to be able to recognize a somewhat clear No. Cultural differences do exist, but with something as important as this was Sabah would have given it some serious thought to 1. make the rejection clear even in Modern Western Culture (given that the language Barrier would have seriously hammered the existence of Difference in Cultures in) and 2. ensure that the fallout is minor enough that her studies would not suffer much.
Sabah's Reaccounting of the Situation makes it clearly seem like Joe was just a pushy asshole who had to be publicly rejected to finally stop only to then discredit her afterwards.
On the other Sides Joe's Reaccounting makes Sabah look like a lying Bitch who led him on to profit from him and publicly made a Scene when he finally spoke plainly. And maybe it is only my extreme Personal Distaste and near Hatred for lying Scum (at least when they lie about minor inconveniences), but I'd more likely trust Joe's Reaccounting considering his Environment, Personality and Therapy all encourage looking at past behavior (and thus his Reaccounting would me more accurate) and analyzing it even if the first one only encourages finding the eventual root of all problems solely at Joe's Feet. Yes Joe could have handled the situation better, but to compare a somewhat socially challenged Person with someone who isn't speaking either truthfully and or plainly and then blows up when they have to speak directly is just confusing to me.
You can't lie by implication. Furthermore Alena did not ask for personal Information on his friend and argued/patronized with arguments that ranged from "Joe are you sure you aren't being used" to "Joe you are highly likely being a bother to your Friend", this is not any sort of argumentation she is just trying to get him home or contact his Mother with any means necessary even if they contradict each other.
I'd also have to disagree with "Pretty much everything he is trying to imply by ... is not true".
He isn't available at his home (IIRC he is sitting in a disguised closet in Garment's Shop)
He isn't in any immediate Danger (he is potentially the most secure Person on the Planet bar Scion)
He has pressing concerns in the following hours and days (a near vital Therapy Session along with a City redefining Villain Meeting)
He has a friend to look after (this is more semantical by simply him using Singular while it is Plural, but ensuring Taylor's Safety along with the Undersiders can literally safe the world or of some moderate villainous Teenage criminals)
So every information that IS actually important for his family was correct.
Joe is the most powerful Parahuman in existence, has literally infinite Potential and could potentially fix every Problem on Earth Bet IF he just has the time to actually handle them. He simply does not have the time for something as trivial as the Validation of 3 (maybe 4 with his unknown father) somewhat blood-related humans and while I normally do not condone lying this is one of the few cases where the full truth would have simply heaped one problem after another (not to forget the near certainty of Joe's Family ratting him out to the PRT fOr HiS oWn SAfEtItY) on Joe.
So simply telling the Truth (as I mentioned above he did for the important Info), but simply NOT fully opening up about his entire Situation to his abusive Family is not only the practical Option it is also the right option.
- Location
- Up on a Hill
Making friends out of skin certainly would have stopped her from making any real ones, in the classic monkey paw fashion worm powers are sort of supposed to follow. Parian kinda gamed the system with figuring out her power worked on marketable puppets.
Yes, there is no such thing as an objective interpretation of symbolism. Doesn't mean we just throw all efforts to be symbolic or thematic out the window.
BarbaCoPut
Voluta indomita
- Location
- Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/His
This is the oficial term now, right?..... RIGHT?
He gets the perk and he will notice it's slowly charging, given that he knows how it charges the scene will go like this:
While I was preparing the equipment for the summit the Forge captured another star, this power was called the Demigod Atelier. <insert detailed power explanation>
One of the duplicates sent a message over the network saying the he would check it out.-
I spent some minutes ruminating on the following meeting. When the same duplicate contacted the whole Workshop and instructed us to meet him at the Atelier. Running to the door I was left just some 20 meters from where the Atelier had appeared. Survey and Fleet's holograms were already there, of course. I inspected the location while the last duplicate arrived with Tetra riding on his shoulder and Garment right behind them.
"What is it?! What happened?!" I asked worried about some unforeseen headache attached to this power
"Do you notice the slight thrum of power in this location?"
It was true, I could feel "something" through the Dragon's Pulse, empowering the discrete location where the Atelier was located.
But... according to the power description, the only way to empower the Atelier was trough worship... through direct worship... aimed at the God who owned the Atelier... that meant...
"Someone is worshipping me?" I whispered, and suddenly the wall looked like the ceiling.
<...>
In case you didn't see the following posts, Sabah assumed it was him. In BCF its stated that Joe wasn't. As the comments say, someone saw that the poor doormat called Joe get totally murdered by Sabah and incorrectly assumed she was being a bitch.
2 points, remember Joe is afraid of social confrontations, specially before the trigger, so he would not have the social fortitude to try and stop the rumor and secondly, any attempt to correct the other students would be taken as him being a way too good guy and being a doormat.
Please keep in mind that two persons can remember a certain event and remember 2 things completely different, emotions, stress, hormones, past trauma, a lot of things can color an event and a memory causing totally different experiences and memories.- I always bring up The Dress because it's a perfect example in recent memory of people watching a thing at the same time, having the difference being extremely easily describable (the color) and still have people having totally different experiences, furthermore, arguing about it.
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I didn't specify what material the puppets were made out of. The full version of her power involves her making the puppets out of skin, hair, and sinew.
You appear to be reading in "mistakes", "plot-holes" or "flawed-logic" that don't actually exist in my posts.
- Location
- Baguio City, Philippines
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is so true. Another ting about memory is that Every time you remember an event from the past, your brain networks change in ways that can alter the later recall of the event. Thus, the next time you remember it, you might recall not the original event but what you remembered the previous time.
So recalling a memory is like the telephone game where people take turns whispering a message into the ear of the next person in line? By the time the last person speaks it out loud, the message has radically changed. It's been altered with each retelling.
I don't know why, but when I read Joe's thoughts about Sabah and his family, I always want to turn on this music:
Dragna
Profesional Lurker
I don't know if I read this somewhere, if someone said it or if I'm remembering this wrong , but this can be summarized in this:
"There's four sides to a story: What he said, what she said, the truth and what everyone else is going to believe regardless of facts."
I think it fits.
Edit: Here's the true quote:
"There are always four sides to a story: your side, their side, the truth and what really happened." — Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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I mean it would make sense for Dennis to think that way with normal Cape shenanigans. Hence Uppercrust whole plan of meeting Aperion and/or Gully's thoughts of what payment involved curing her from the Case 53 status.
dracklor
Beyond the Frontier
- Location
- Texas
Heh, I love how it will be Joe's fault his parents are alone for Easter. Not like Alena or Natalia would bother going home for Easter...
Yeah his family probably needs therapy as much as New Wave, and is probably just as likely to bother getting it.
Yeah his family probably needs therapy as much as New Wave, and is probably just as likely to bother getting it.
MagicalAmbitions
the rose in your vase
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Worth noting; This fic takes place several years after the event between Joe and Sabah, and Joe explicitly recognized that he did wrong there and has been working on improving himself in that time. We also know that Joe only went for the final attempt because a friend talked him into it.
Also: The idea that rejecting some pushy asshole is important enough to put 'serious thought' into for either of those things is a tall order, and the idea that "minimizing fallout" was something that Sabah intentionally thought out in the pushy-asshole-rejection is discredited by her later very public rejection.
The Shallow
Shallow, Yet Deep
- Location
- Your Universe
- Pronouns
- She/They
Read: "If this story isn't perfectly canon compliant Sabah could be a liar, and I despise liars so I will trust the account of a dude who was wearing rose-tinted glasses who later acknowledged he fucked up in the situation, and declare that he did nothing wrong."
It's already kinda been stated, but I don't think you can really trust either recounting. Only when examining both perspectives can you try to piece together what exactly happened.
The latter is a good point. I can't say with certainty what would happen, but I think it important to note we had no indication that joe even attempted to stop it. People were pointing that out as another thing that he did wrong in that situation.
This is why I suspect Sabah said something along the lines of "Just leave me alone."
His friend would probably be like "She may have just been in a bad mood, just ask her directly, come on, just give it one last shot!"
So Joe walks up to her kinda nervously, tries to ask her out again, and Sabah blows up.
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BarbaCoPut
Voluta indomita
- Location
- Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/His
I've found that this is something of a "TV factoid", I've seen it repeated a lot in Reddit and some other forums, but as "rules", I know I at least am an exception. And I think that there are many that also don't experience this. I believe it might be linked to visualization and the fact that a lot of people "visualize" their memories, so some people might add visualized imagination to their memories, even unintentionally. Being an aphant I either remember or don't a certain level of detail, and I either lose details from memories I don't access frequently or I keep the details I already had.- In general broad generalizations on how the mind works are bound to be mistaken sometimes.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, this story swings between sublime and sublimely frustrating for me.
When Joe's actually out and interacting with people, it's almost always highly entertaining. Garment is a treasure and I badly want to read more about her and Flechette. I want more interactions with the heroes, therapy sessions, even family convos if he keeps on the current trajectory.
The only exceptions to that area are when the plot continues to be held back by a) People refusing to give him a level of trust that would be sensible for their relationship, and b) Joe's absolute, utter obliviousness to the existence of romantic attraction in anyone for anyone.
(I'm seriously beginning to wonder if Joe is just Ace, because how else could a college student have an inner dialogue so completely devoid of the concept of romantic relationships?)
At this point, I really can't see why Lisa hasn't just asked Joe to shelter her in his workshop while he tracks down and kills Coil with what info she provides. Joe has rapid response across Brockton Bay with suits that could comfortably fight an endbringer at this point. He has a Survey. Coil is so outgunned he's pointing his finger and saying 'bang', and Lisa knows it.
The Taylor/Joe mutual communication stonewall is somewhat understandable, given Taylor's canon inability to actually consult with people, but may actually be more frustrating. You just want to shake Taylor and say, 'He killed a 50-foot tall Lung! That's twice Lung's previous record! Forget about going undercover and leave it to him!"
I just wish Joe would realize he already outclasses every threat barring the Endbringers and Scion, step off the upgrade treadmill for a little while and get some proactive use out of that tech of his.