Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

[Karharot]

The Triumvirate is also unlikely to be onboard since to them he might be an option against Scion. Plus with what limited pathing Contessa can do, if she runs a path on Joe to see what are the odds they take him out in a straight fight, they will not like the outcome.
/.../

I am fairly sure that convincing someone on Joe's level to join endbringer fights is more important to them than killing him. As people in a position of power know that Earth Bet has an expiry date due to the endbringers, and that expiry date is not far.

Click to shrink...

The Triumvirate and Chief Director course of action will be determined by Cauldron and Cauldron will use Contessa to make a decision. Two problems here are 1) We don't know what Contessa's Path to Victory will spew out as the best course of action at the moment she asks the question about Joe. 2) As soon as Cauldron will realize that Apeiron can't be predicted and thus controlled via Contessa's power they are likely to go into "recruit, imprison or kill" mode, they (especially Alexandria) are too much of a control freaks to leave a wild card of that caliber messing with their plans.

Sometimes, the wisest thing to do is nothing and gather data.

The PRT knows this deep in its institutional bones. They have not gone back into Ellisburg since the first disastrous mission; they set up observation and monitored it.They cordoned off Pastor, California and kept a watch on the place. Ditto Eagleton. Noone has bothered the Sleeper where he is. Ash Beast is still trekking his way across Northern Africa.

They've learned from bitter experience not to throw nukes at Endbringers in order to "do something".

The idea that politics overrides good sense and reasoned analysis in the setting is contradicted by the multiple localities where the PRT has adopted a watch and see policy precisely because its the most reasonable option in their toolbox.
They lived with Lung in Brockton Bay. They can live with Apeiron without escalating blindly .

Click to shrink...

All the examples you listed are nightmarish monsters in public opinion eyes but as far as PRT (or rather Cauldron) is concerned they aren't a threat to their own power base. Apeiron did a better job protecting Brockton Bay and its people than PRT did and if the public started raising that point it would be a big problem for their authority. No matter how many people Hookwolf killed (I think it was in the triple digits) he was left mostly alone but Skitter was taken as a priority because she was a threat to PRT itself (because the part of the public that knew what happened in the BB during S9 rampage trusted her more than the Protectorate and vecause she dared to raise her hand against PRT director, nevermind that he was a villain). Also how many parahuman assets were sent to their deaths because Glaistig Uaine was too powerful to be left alone without being under government thumb?

 

[zerak]

As soon as Cauldron will realize that Apeiron can't be predicted and thus controlled via Contessa's power they are likely to go into "recruit, imprison or kill" mode, they (especially Alexandria) are too much of a control freaks to leave a wild card of that caliber messing with their plans.

Click to shrink...

Not being able to path them won't cause them to be against him. Though if he gets too strong they will want a way to control him, which might make them do something dirty like threatening his family.

Glaistig Uaine was too powerful to be left alone without being under government thumb?

Click to shrink...

You make a good point. We will have to wait and see.

The thing is, Joe has a few lifetimes worth of memories as a soldier, so if pushed enough he will fall back on training. And if he gets the perk that gives him a life time of experience as a tech priest and experience under an arch magus. Well they are fùcked if they push him enough. Or if he gets strong spark and turns to the madness place since they would be dead by the time he regains control. Even if that time is a fuel seconds, courtesy of build Rome.

 

[JamesRick29]

Cauldron will realize that Apeiron can't be predicted and thus controlled via Contessa's power they are likely to go into "recruit, imprison or kill" mode, they (especially Alexandria) are too much of a control freaks to leave a wild card of that caliber messing with their plans.

Click to shrink...

Not being able to path them won't cause them to be against him. Though if he gets too strong they will want a way to control him, which might make them do something dirty like threatening his family.

Click to shrink...

You have to also remember Ziz too, that monster wouldn't like a factor outside of her predictions to mess with her plans. Ziz low key more or less directs the endbringers or she goes herself to eliminate targets that would bring hope, there's a reason why she's called the hopekiller or behemoth might go since he's the herokiller. Honestly cauldron is the least of Joe's worries, there's the Endbringers, as Joe constantly mentioned how he can't make any big moves for fear Ziz might just decided to come after him.

Plus in canon there were two thinker blind spots like Mantellum and Pastor that cauldron didn't target and killed them or spent the resources to do so, tho they did both die but it wasn't by cauldron hands.

 

[arromdee]

This becomes more relevant if you consider that Scion (a force of nature by this point) intervened in nuclear launch: USA on practice has no nuclear weapons.

Click to shrink...

This is fanon. Scion destroyed some specific weapons but he didn't get rid of the arsenal; Khonsu set off nuclear weapons in canon.

 

[andreykl]

This is fanon. Scion destroyed some specific weapons but he didn't get rid of the arsenal; Khonsu set off nuclear weapons in canon.

Click to shrink...

I said nothing about Scion destroying whole arsenal. If you have nuclear arsenal, but can't use it, means that on practice you have none.
Khonsu happened later.

1) Toybox canonically built giant robots. Armsmaster took one of them into Houston during the S9000 Arc .
Dragon operated, and operates, an entire raft of giant robots with self-destruct options. Kid Win built a fuckoff giant laser in time for the Bank Job in canon. Building mass-destruction stuff has never been an issue as long as youre not just using them willy nilly.

Click to shrink...

Toybox's ones seem to be construction robots. Tech for industrial work. They doesn't seem to be bipedal-leg-walking or flying mechs.
Some of dragon crafts are in 'industrial plane' range of size (20+m length), but they are advanced planes, not 'flying bipedal walkers'.

P.S. Lung's Jaw dropping is a fair indicator that Apeiron's robot is something unusual for one reason or another.

 

[Koraan]

About timeline:

Sunday, April 10th - Joe goes out as a cape for the first time, encounters Oni Lee and then the Undersiders. Joe's first fight.

Thursday, April 14th - Joe delivers the knives to the Undersiders in the morning, they rob the bank at noon, Joe has a chat with Amy and heals her in the afternoon. The PRT learns of Joe for the first time.

Click to shrink...

There missed their next meeting, in between. When they was in civvies, and invited him in their lair. 11th, I think? Then 13th they delivered all he needed to make the knieves.

She considers him a scoundrel.

Click to shrink...

She named him a scoundrel. I, for one, pretty sure she considers him a good person who wants to help her.

A duplicate heals Chen and gives him a magic sword, armor and unlocks his Aura

Click to shrink...

Not an armor. While, I'm sure, it can serve as one, that's actually a suit that enhance physical capabilities and helps with training. Very durable, but protection isn't it's purpose.

 

[Karharot]

You have to also remember Ziz too, that monster wouldn't like a factor outside of her predictions to mess with her plans. Ziz low key more or less directs the endbringers or she goes herself to eliminate targets that would bring hope, there's a reason why she's called the hopekiller or behemoth might go since he's the herokiller. Honestly cauldron is the least of Joe's worries, there's the Endbringers, as Joe constantly mentioned how he can't make any big moves for fear Ziz might just decided to come after him.

Click to shrink...

Don't know about that. With his safeties in place he might avoid Simurgh attention. At least until Leviathan hits the Bay and he is forced to show himself on her radar but maybe by that point he will be strong enough to deal with her (especially if she is forced to keep her intervention to the next scheduled attack date).
Also thanks to his anti-precog measures he is not an easy target for her "butterfly effect" type attacks because whatever subtle plans she sets in motion are likely to be complete misses by the time they reach him. Not saying that he shouldn't be still terrified of her, just that he has a decent, and constantly improving, chance to dodge or counter her.
On the other hand if Cauldron decides to move against him it's not their firepower that is the greatest threat to him, it's the vast number of options they have to frame things in the worst light, turning his reputation from rogue mercenary with a honor code into a madman who plans to destroy the country for whatever reason can be sold the easiest. That kind of attack will hit him where he is most vulnerable and least capable of countering it because he just isn't the sort of person that handles such things well.

Plus in canon there were two thinker blind spots like Mantellum and Pastor that cauldron didn't target and killed them or spent the resources to do so, tho they did both die but it wasn't by cauldron hands.

Click to shrink...

In Mantellum case they probably judged that he is too weak to cause anything big enough to affect them (proof how little Contessa's assurances that she can model around blind spots were worth). I don't recognize the second name, if he is from Ward then I dropped reading it some 5 volumes in so I don't have any arguments here.

 

[Mesaphrom]

About timeline:

There missed their next meeting, in between. When they was in civvies, and invited him in their lair. 11th, I think? Then 13th they delivered all he needed to make the knieves.


She named him a scoundrel. I, for one, pretty sure she considers him a good person who wants to help her.


Not an armor. While, I'm sure, it can serve as one, that's actually a suit that enhance physical capabilities and helps with training. Very durable, but protection isn't it's purpose.

Click to shrink...

IIRC she specificaly uses non incriminating names for him like villain or delinquent in general, both so the public don't think she is trying to arrest him and to make her opinion of him clear, even when she is trying to probably kill him.

And, let's be honest, even if it's a 1* goku uniform it may as well be a suit of armor

 

[Koraan]

2) All the economic parties who have interests in the functioning of the US economy have their own opinions about people who should know better blindly escalating delicate situations.The PRT and the government answer to the civilian population, they dont just act with impunity.

Click to shrink...

I agree with your comment, with a remark "most of them dont just act with impunity". Because idiots happens, anywhere.

And, let's be honest, even if it's a 1* goku uniform it may as well be a suit of armor

Click to shrink...

Sure. But it will be just really good armor, nothing that one could expect from something made by Apeiron.
IMO.

 

[Chronocidal]

Sure. But it will be just really good armor, nothing that one could expect from something made by Apeiron.

Click to shrink...

During the events of Kill-la-Kill, it is commented at least once that the goku uniforms being produced by the sewing club are "crude", and have "weak stitching". The 1* uniforms are improved and upgraded several times, while remaining 1* (i.e. 10% life-fibre, 90% other material), suggesting that the quality of the construction improves the effectiveness of the uniform.

This one was made by a Dupli-Joe. So, it is going to be as good as is physically possible, and maybe even more than that. I suspect we're looking at a lightweight silk suit that is about as effective at stopping bullets as full PRT body-armour.

Which certainly sounds, to me, like the sort of thing you could expect from Apeiron.

 

[Oseanman]

Hey quick question what chapter was Joe's full name revealed?

 

[Mourning Glory]

Hey quick question what chapter was Joe's full name revealed?

Click to shrink...

Either the chapter he went to theropy or when his sister called

 

[SyfyMovieFan]

A big issue with using a pre-signed Kill-Order is that it won't actually make Apeiron more likely to negotiate.

Remember that in an earlier chapter Apeiron told Director Armstrong that he won't negotiate from a position of weakness with the person who put him there.

Granted, Apeiron was referring to the fact that Director Piggot put out a no-contact order on him (I don't remember what it was termed), but I don't think that he'll be any more likely to negotiate with a pre-signed Kill-Order, especially since they can't really hurt him.

 

[Cosmic]

During the events of Kill-la-Kill, it is commented at least once that the goku uniforms being produced by the sewing club are "crude", and have "weak stitching". The 1* uniforms are improved and upgraded several times, while remaining 1* (i.e. 10% life-fibre, 90% other material), suggesting that the quality of the construction improves the effectiveness of the uniform.

This one was made by a Dupli-Joe. So, it is going to be as good as is physically possible, and maybe even more than that. I suspect we're looking at a lightweight silk suit that is about as effective at stopping bullets as full PRT body-armour.

Which certainly sounds, to me, like the sort of thing you could expect from Apeiron.

Click to shrink...

Yep, a WoG specifically states that it's near indestructible. Also funny enough, WoG also refers to it as armor due to The Flock's Fleece's chainmail effect allowing Waste Not to be used since it's then considered armor.

Spoiler: The Word of God

I actually did roll for the 50/50 chance and it took two attempts to be able to emulate life fibers with Waste Not. As for the strain of a one-star uniform, it's also elven enchanted, enhanced by Lathe of Heaven, and built as a divine object. It's a good deal better than a one-star, and less likely to have drawbacks. Still a massive trip, and only going to get better thanks to Heretical Adaptation. Also, The Flock's Fleece makes sure it always fits, protects against any terrestrial temperature range, is always comfortable, and protects as well as light chainmail. That chainmail effect was the significant part because it allowed Waste Not to be used. The armor is also enhanced by the previously mentioned perks, so rather than 'light chainmail' you have nearly indestructible armor with enhanced properties and better functionality that should be possible. It's actually a good deal beyond just 'bulletproof'.

Hey quick question what chapter was Joe's full name revealed?

Click to shrink...

Fleet Interlude:

'Who' seemed like it should be clear starting point, but even that wasn't clear. The accuracy of any purported identity was nebulous when applied to an entity like Apeiron. The person of Apeiron's human identity undoubtedly existed, but could he really be said to be Jozef Michal Ďuriš, Born February 23rd, 1990, organ donor and holder of a class D vehicle operation license from the New Hampshire Division of Motor Vehicles?

Click to shrink...

 

[Confuzzled]

Random thought: What happens if Apeiron Kills the Butcher?

What could Joe do about the voices?

 

[Cheetored20]

Random thought: What happens if Apeiron Kills the Butcher?

What could Joe do about the voices?

Click to shrink...

The voices count as souls according to wog. (This is because it's from stuff stored on the shard, which fundementaly acts as an afterlife.

 

[Lagoon12002]

The voices count as souls according to wog.

Click to shrink...

Oh that is just evil... I almost want it to happen now!

 

[PinkShadowReader]

Random thought: What happens if Apeiron Kills the Butcher?

What could Joe do about the voices?

Click to shrink...

WOG:
The parahuman/magic equivalence means Joe could become the next Butcher. That would (and does) count as possession for the purposes of all of Joe's powers and abilities, meaning he could work to reverse of moderate it through anything relevant to that condition. If Joe got killed the question of what the next Butcher would inherit is a bit more complicated, probably being limited to magical abilities only.

Oh that is just evil... I almost want it to happen now!

Click to shrink...

Personally I want him to create a ghostbuster getup and suck Butchers extra powers until she only has one or two powers left. Her current host and the original Butcher shard.
That would create some real fear among the cape community.

 

[Confuzzled]

Personally I want him to create a ghostbuster getup and suck Butchers extra powers until she only has one or two powers left. Her current host and the original Butcher shard.
That would create some real fear among the cape community.

Click to shrink...

Now I imagine Joe casually walking up to Faerie Queen and sucking out her ghosts with a godly vaccum

 

[Koraan]

I suspect we're looking at a lightweight silk suit that is about as effective at stopping bullets as full PRT body-armour.

Which certainly sounds, to me, like the sort of thing you could expect from Apeiron.

Click to shrink...

I think something like that, yes. That's what I said - just a really good armor, nothing special.

"- That's a silk suit that is about as effective at stopping bullets as full PRT body-armour, and even more so - against blades.
- Wow, just as expected from Apeiron's creation!
- Yeah, neat side effect for the suit that gives x30* boost to all physical capabilities and make any physical training fifty* times more effective.
- *pffffft* *Cough-cough* WHA?! "

The last line is appropriate reaction for something made by Apeiron. Not the second line (unless that's someone who know about his full capabilities).

* Numbers almost certainly incorrect.

a WoG

Click to shrink...

Thanks for info. So, that turned out my assumption was uncorrect (I thought that was considered only "clothes", not "armor" too).

Random thought: What happens if Apeiron Kills the Butcher?

Click to shrink...

Most likely scenario? Butcher will die. Because when Apeiron decide to kill him, he will do it in a way that will also kill his Shard, or prevent his resurrection in some other way.

edit: typo-fixing.

 

[andreykl]

Most likely scenario? Butcher will die. Because when Apeiron decide to kill him, he will do it in a way that will also kill his Shard, or prevent his resurrection in some other way.

Click to shrink...

Why overcomplicate?

Joe-D1: Target in sight.
Joe-D2: Exorcising measures in place.
Joe-Prime: Time-freezing chamber ready. I'm in anti-possesion room. D1, Weapons free.
Joe-D1: Target down.
Joe-Prime: Feel anything different?
Joe-D1: Strangely, nothing.
Joe-Prime: D2?
Joe-D2: Well... we are looking at a classical result of baseline human trying to posses a demigod with additional senses and knowledge bases incompatible with human mind... Demigod that was ready to fight an intrusion with defenses up and reinforced. Some of the butcher went 'splat' on the mind-shield and passed away, some got wiped clean of mind by Master Builder and sheer quantity of data, also passed away, one part of 'Butcher' passed out due to sensor shock, about to go mad... uh, more mad than usual for it and then will pass away if we do nothing, collecting it into a vial.
Joe-Prime: So in the end we didn't need to kill Butcher with a duplicate.
Joe-D1: Still a sensible precaution, terminating myself just in case. D2, keep an eye on Joe for couple more minutes.
...
Joe-Prime: Now... how to prove to PRT that I'm not The Butcher...
Aisha: Do you need to? That is a hell of a way to get rid of a kill order. And that's totally not me wanting to see my brother squirm.

 

[uju32]

All the examples you listed are nightmarish monsters in public opinion eyes but as far as PRT (or rather Cauldron) is concerned they aren't a threat to their own power base. Apeiron did a better job protecting Brockton Bay and its people than PRT did and if the public started raising that point it would be a big problem for their authority. No matter how many people Hookwolf killed (I think it was in the triple digits) he was left mostly alone but Skitter was taken as a priority because she was a threat to PRT itself (because the part of the public that knew what happened in the BB during S9 rampage trusted her more than the Protectorate and vecause she dared to raise her hand against PRT director, nevermind that he was a villain). Also how many parahuman assets were sent to their deaths because Glaistig Uaine was too powerful to be left alone without being under government thumb?

Click to shrink...

1) Not actually true.
Both Lung and Bakuda were canonically apprehended by supervillains and giftwrapped for the PRT during the Brockton Bay bombing arc in canon; that did not result in an attempt to put kill orders on the Undersiders or the E88, or the PRT worrying about its authority.

The PRT canonically relies on local villains and rogues to pitch in when Endbringers show up, or in the event of S-class events.
That doesnt threaten them either.

2) If Skitter had the skillset or threat-range of Glaistig Uaine, or the Butcher, you can fucking bet that Tagg would not have done it.
If the PRT had not been desperate after the fuckup of the Echidna Incident and Fatuus Ignuus' allegations, it would not have happened.
If they didnt have the worlds most powerful precog literally telling them to go for it? It would not have happened.

3)Glaistig Uaine was literally a parahuman serial killer who got stronger with each kill, and who operated across both the US and Europe.
There was reason for a good faith determination that intervening then would prevent her becoming strong enough to be a strategic threat.

Apeiron isnt a serial killer, or even a gang boss.
He doesnt do street crime, doesnt hold territory, and in terms of personal power he demonstrably crossed the Godzilla threshold at least three days ago when he shot down that missile salvo, so you're not preventing him becoming a strategic threat, you're making a strategic threat mad at you.

It would be pants on head stupid.

Toybox's ones seem to be construction robots. Tech for industrial work. They doesn't seem to be leg-walking or flying mechs.
Some of dragon crafts are in 'industrial plane' range of size (20+m length), but they are advanced planes, not 'walkers'.

Click to shrink...

The very first Dragon drone we see in Extermination 8.1 is a four-legged mech. It could fly, but its not a plane.

Past the hill and to the left was Dragon, in a mechanical suit that was as large as two PRT vans put together, four legged, with what looked like a single jet engine on top, still smoking from her recent flight. On either side of the engine or oversized jetpack or whatever it was, were two shoulder mounted missile launchers, each pre-loaded with four missiles longer than I was tall. She was facing the water, unmoving, like a gargoyle standing guard.

Click to shrink...

This is a pattern that continues through most of the story.

 

[LightLan]

Both Lung and Bakuda were canonically apprehended by supervillains and giftwrapped for the PRT during the Brockton Bay bombing arc in canon; that did not result in an attempt to put kill orders on the Undersiders or the E88, or the PRT worrying about its authority.

Click to shrink...

The Protectorate actually caught Bakuda on their own.

 

[andreykl]

The very first Dragon drone we see in Extermination 8.1 is a four-legged mech. It could fly, but its not a plane.

Click to shrink...

Extermination 8.1 is not bipedal and is around 8-10 meters long. Gun-EZ is 15m tall!
Dragon craft as a general rule have wings and four 'legs', long, not tall.
Dragon does have crafts over 15 meter long, but those appear to be 'agile' planes, often meant for ranged combat or support.

Gundam is drastically different in a number of ways. At minimum it is humanoid/bipedal (quadrupedal are magnitude easier to do), capable of wingless (if limited) flight, armed with a beam saber.

 

[CorEagle]

Written with the help of CorEagle's PHO Blacksmithery - Brockton's Celestial Forge and the users who frequent the thread. This is the first, and hopefully not the last, PHO omake that resulted from that thread. This one is the comment section of "Reconsider" by The Shallow, who gave their permission to use their work. @LordRoustabout, I have titled this in my documents as "Reconsider - Comments".

To everyone else, please continue using the PHO thread!
-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-

(Showing page 5 of 319)


►Salty Facility
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
WHY EVERYONE JUST CHOSE TO POUR GASOLINE IN ALREADY DUMPSTER FIRE OF SITUATION?!

►Moby Dick
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
The human Master/robot Master/robot Tinker combination is quite rare, isn't it.
I would bet that Apeiron human master/ armor tinker. those 'Gaurdians' mastered people to love someone that that were dressed up in those suits.
Who did you make Dragon fall for anyway? I can't imagine it being worse than what you did to Panacea.
Last


►KingGizzard & the Lizard Wizard
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
Alright since you are spreading a bunch of lies I figure that it is my duty to clear up any misconceptions a newcomer might have after reading your quite frankly false arguments.

" If he's to blame, but he made excuses to the PRT instead of admitting blame, this is literally true." first off you say "if he's to blame" and that he "made excuses to the PRT instead of admitting blame" you act like he already is guilty of everything the PRT 'suspected' him of. This is wrong on so many levels that if you don't understand the concept of innocent until proven guilty then I don't think anybody can help you.

you stated that he was making excuses when he was claiming innocence and providing a logical argument and suggestion as to why Panacea might be tripping master alarms. Claiming that what he is doing is making excuses is silly on many levels when you consider that anybody with a brain could see the logic of what he is claiming.
This isn't even talking about the actual Interrogation, and yes I mean interrogation. Anybody who watched the unofficially(unconfirmed my ass, that camera is better than most movies) released tape can determine that the 'questioning' is bogus.

"I've made no implications of..." where did you find this? because I read the thing up and down and the only point where "made no implications of" comes up is when he talking about Weld and not himself. And its true the PRT has made no implications that weld is in Master confinement. Seems pretty sketchy for a 'suspected master victim' huh. Anyways stop making false quotes you're just making yourself seem worse.

"True, but how do you think he got past that point? It wasn't the PRT." Actually, they did play a big part or did you just forget about (Triumph's beaten and bloodied body) not gonna blame Triumph for that, he obviously had no choice but to fight back. But by the time Lung showed up he was already ramped up enough that any hero would have had no choice but to go fully lethal. Apeiron gave Lung a chance to surrender but he didn't, he brought that on himself. besides what was he supposed to do? let Lung burn down half the City?


►MemeticLectern
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
I think Apeiron faked these logs but I don't know what the fuck he's playing at:

►Apeiron
That's probably the right reaction. Every sense I'm getting says things are going to get bad with the ABB and March is a much more significant threat than you're making her out to be.
►Weld
Is that your thinker power? From what I heard, thinker results are all over the place with her.
►Apeiron
March messes with thinker powers. I didn't have anything on her until recently, but it's going to be bad. I realize this is going to come across as someone trying to divert attention away from themselves, but you really need to focus on dealing with her

This is ridiculous!!!! Is he trying to act like he predicted what happened on thurs???

►Weld
Still not really sleeping, but everything else is holding up. I haven't accidently absorbed anything since your treatment. I mean, I've been in medical most of the time, but It's a huge relief not having to be as careful about hidden nails or metal components in mixed composition-objects. Touch and taste are still massively improved. Seriously, thank you for that.
►Apeiron
Don't worry. I'm sorry I couldn't do more. Once things are settled I might be able to get you another treatment, but it will take some work to get there.
You had a chance to try Thai food yet?

this HAS GOT TO BE pure bullshit
Apeiron is trying to claim he can alleviate C53 condition???
This is such a brazen lie I am just so confused as to why he would consider doing this???
Is this some sort of coded threat to the PRT???????


►KingGizzard & the Lizard Wizard
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
@MemeticLectern
You're right Apeiron did make some big claims with that and I'm having a bit of trouble believing that myself.

But

It makes no sense for him to lie about that. All it would take is @Weld coming out and saying that the convo is fake and he loses all credibility.
He has no good reason to lie about that, which is the only reason I suspect that it might in fact be true.


►GravyTrainer
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
The accusation of "ability to mentally influence" is a big, vague, threatening-sounding pile of nothing. If you're reading this, I'm influencing your mind. Maybe I'll even change it. No powers necessary, just words.


►DrowningInTheBay
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
Problem with your assumprion Gizzard is that anyone ever bothers reading beyond the first headlines, or heck that anyone follows along with Apeiron's actions beyond the streams he appears on. Did you know he has an automated responce to everyone contacting him for merc work. There is some variation but you can tell it's a standard "we are not accepting any new contracts atm" message you get from various freelance contractors. Don't get me wrong if you try any research into him ur more likely to have a bunch of question more so than answers, but the questions I seem to always run into isnt anywhere near as bad as, is he really a master? More often it's where is he getting all the materials for this? Or why do his transforming robots make the sound of a Aleph Hasbro property? Also some things that'd get you banned on PHO (no not shipping shit). I'm more worried if he's been mastered honestly. His demeanor since his fight with U&L has changed dramatically, you can tell in the way he carries himself, it's unnerving honestly. Like b4 he was badass but now? He carries this...animal magnetism that he never displayed b4.


►KinderBlazen (Tempbanned)
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
you bitches don't got your priorities straight! Clearly, the question we should be asking are "can he make sexy robo waifus?"
Mod edit: Do not engage in this kind of behavior


►DrowningInTheBay
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
...wait how did the ape of iron get permission to post his chat logs, I thought PHO was a 2 party system. Did...did he get permission from Dragon/Weld to post what was supposed to be a private conversation? Like I don't want to make any assumptions. Also if Weld had access to PHO he is obviously not undergoing Master screening, and what I can read from the Dragon chat logs...yeah idk what is going on there it's too dense to slog through, and the responce times are...like I know Apeiron has that weird mover thing when he breaks down tech so inguess it applies to typing, but what about Dragon? They are nearly matching in the wpm! Man i need to get me a keyboard like that...unless they were using a mind-machine interface which would...dangit I really hope they were just using mundane tech for that (unlikely but let a man dream).


►MemeticLectern
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
@King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard That is why it has to be some sort of coded threat! @Weld has been in Medical for like a week. Shouldn't take that long to carve anything he was stuck to out, no? What if he fused with some Apeiron tech intentionally placed under the rig, and Apeiron is using him as a hostage to get the kill order revoked???


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►KingGizzard & the Lizard Wizard
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
@MemeticLectern

D-Did you seriously not see @Weld standing right there in the press conference?

I doubt Apeiron put some sort of invisible kill switch on a Ward.
Just saying.

why don't you take that to the conspiracy section of PHO?

besides that, isn't @Weld supposed to be immune to master effects? why is the PRT considering weld a suspected master victim despite his supposed immunity? Add in the fact that he isn't in containment and it sounds even worse.
Granted that was just speculation on Apeiron's part. But the fact that nobody even knows who the hell the PRT are talking about when they say "3 suspected victims" should clue us in on how bogus this [is it(pre-singed)?] kill order is.


►TheBoltingNitwit
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
I don't think ya'll getting the point here. We've had countless people tell us they've been healed by Apeiron, and now Weld's in Medical. The freakish things Apeiron's medical blue lines can fix, ya'll think maybe he cured Weld's metallness? Cause that, that would make him Important, with a capital I. The PRT might not be able to do anything to him, if he can shake the big stick of a cure for Case 53's - I seen some of them on TV, and they don't look like they feel right in their skins - I think the words dysphoria.


►DrowningInTheBay
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
common misconception Gizzard it is neither confirmed nor denied whether or not Weld is immune to all master effects. Let alone whatever effects Apeiron(allegedly) has. It seems safe to assume but power interactions are known to be weird, so there is a chance he can be effected by master powers. Understandable if he was in master confinement, but since he isnt I'm guessing either the Protectorate do not actually consider Apeiron a master threat, or they are completely disregarding SoP due to the state of emergency.


►MemeticLectern
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
Just because he can blow up Weld doesn't mean he can control him. Master effects don't matter if there is a mini-nuke stuck in his shin. It's a coded message! That's the only explanation! Also, the Dragon logs are full of Technobabble and are mostly just dead links to PDFs. I refuse to believe those are actually real. What kind of smug bullshit is this ending?

A: It's real and I know what it means. You can have it, no charge. Just work with me. Help me break Bakuda's code.

D: Let me contact the Protectorate. I guarantee they will allow this. Please.

A: No. You can beg forgiveness rather than ask permission. That's my offer. I am asking you to break the rules.

D: I can't.

A: I know.

I think this is also meant to be a code. He might not be Mastering dragon but there's got to be a reason she's prioritizing his capture...


►GravyTrainer
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
Ok, I just read through about 200 pages of legal writing and either the Kill Order is bogus or it's based on entirely different accusations from the ones in the presser. Taken at face value, they don't meet the Inherent Immediate Threat standard of the Breed decision, nor do they "brazenly exceed the normal scope of villainy", nor do they allege an S-class threat. At least, not unless they have an explanation of the Lung strike that goes beyond just an unknown weapon that hit really hard - AFAICT the use of a power against a single individual, with no collateral deaths, has never been an acceptable basis for a Kill Order.

Am I missing some other justification here?


►MemeticLectern
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
Clearly a lot of covering up. The nerds on the Apeiron Calculations thread were saying that the Gaurdian went at the speed of light, so we might be talking about FTL Weaponry from Apeiron!!! PRT confirming that and panic starts!


►DrowningInTheBay
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
naw Gravy, the problem is having access tinkertech that has planetary reprecussions, which is why it's a presigned kill order and not an actual one. Chances are the PRT is doing this more so to preempt another String Theory. At least if the theory that what took out Lung was an FTL ram and not something else, anyways rewatching the press release it seems the bigger issue they have is whatever feild repair tech he has for the giant robot. If what they say about Dragon's recordings of the encounter are true, there is something in the robot that looks similar to Apeiron's healing tech...so either it isnt limited to organic materials, or he used something with much worse implications. Either way he definitely had a hand in building that robot, and that thing is Endbringer sized. Like seriously even if it wasnt built solely by him, having a hand in the creation of something like that is...it doesnt look good is what I am saying.


►ShinySmileSnaffler
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
Ok, we are we even attempting to apply physics or logic to Apeiron's tinkertech? TInkertech is inherently a violation of science in the first place - hell, look at these bubbles of stasis that the bomb tinker's been flinging about - anything that enters gets absolutely frozen - and yet, it is still somehow fixed relative to the Earth's position, instead of shredding a hole in the planet. Lots of tinkertech that has potentially nightmarish implications simply ceases to actually live up to the hype, somehow being safety-proofed or limited in ways we can't comprehend. For all we know, Lung got teleported or something, and the lightshow was cosmetic.


►PaperMuncher
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
If we really need a Kill Order signed, shouldn't it go to Bakuda instead? I mean, I don't know about you but I do not want to see what a tinker tech nuclear grenade or antimatter grenade can do especially since Oni Lee is not dead either.

►GravyTrainer
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
Drowning, "seems" isn't good enough for a kill order. For an abbreviated trial in absentia, without an opportunity for the accused to defend himself, the standard of proof is supposed to be "beyond all doubt". The public evidence isn't even enough to meet that standard for a finding that Lung is dead, see ShinySlimeSnaffler's post.

In a regular trial, the judge couldn't posit a scenario like Shiny's but Apeiron could plausibly raise it as a defense and present his own evidence to back it up. Therefore, the abbreviated trial uses a stronger standard of evidence and the case for a kill order needs to preempt any plausible defense like that. They can't possibly have that evidence yet, unless they captured and analyzed the robot and found something alarming but didn't tell anyone.



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►Weld (Verified Cape) (Case 53)
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
I cannot stay silent any longer. Yes, the logs provided by Apeiron regarding our conversation is true. Here is my log with him on my point of view. I request that the admins verify these messages so this matter could be settled.

I am definitely going to catch hell for posting this, but I don't care. Apeiron gave me back my senses, limited they may be. I can finally feel and taste what is on my hands. He rescued me from the bottom of the ocean just because he thought I was a hero. His mercenary attitude is more fiction than fact - and that he has hates Masters with a passion to the point I'm worried that they were the cause of his trigger. You have no idea how thankful I am for what he has done for me.

He was working on a cure for Case 53, and now it seems that he won't ever be able to complete it with the utter stupidity that is this Kill Order.


►HaiFuPP
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
Weld can taste through his hands now?


►DrowningInTheBay
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
honestly...more suprised that they allowed you to publically post...and that Apeiron didnt ask you directly to post those logs...kinda sketch. Also yeah, you can taste with ur hands?...what kinda rating would that get? Striker/Thinker obviously but like I'm wondering what the number would be...


►Sothoth
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
@DrowninginTheBay I think he wasn't really allowed to post that. Note his wording about he's "going to catch hell for this." I'm not a Case 53, so I don't know if what Apeiron did was really that big of a deal? Also, those hand-tasters...

Gives a whole new meaning when Weld wants to throw hands, you know?


►Reave (Verified PRT Agent)
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
This post is made to share that what Weld posted wasn't sanctioned and does not represent the ideals and view of the Protectorate.


►Aloha
Replied On Apr 23rd 2011:
And the government people show up. Instead of, you know, trying to help the people, they give kill orders on nuke-bearing capes and slap down their own capes that have the opposite opinion.

Honestly, you guys suck balls.



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►John Doe2340
Replied On Apr 26th 2011:
I mean you joke about it but when you consider its potential uses with medical care for capes...

I doubt that MRIs are particularly effective on high-level brutes.
I mean just imagine it.
Being the only cape in the world that can help test Alexandria for breast cancer Mmmm.
It's certainly a power that I would love to have.

Moderator: You have received a week-long ban for inappropriate conduct... which you obviously knew since you created a sock puppet account. Enjoy your perma-ban.


►DrowningInTheBay
Replied On Apr 26th 2011:
ah maybe...imma clear that up then i was confused as to why he was allowed on the computer, even if he isnt under master confinement procedures from what I can tell the Wards havent been allowed to post since the state of emergency was announced. Unless that is actually just them not posting due to...the...emergency. I am a stupid


►McMuffinThird
Replied On Apr 26th 2011:
Soooooo, ignoring @ John Doe2340 lack of... tact. I will say that up to certain point he is right about
Apeiron having some damn good medical biotinkering if he can claim to heal case 53 and use the same
thing to become our DinoWerewolf Overlord, I have my reservations but he isn't the type of guy that
plays to be a hero or villain. I think that he is type of guy that would spend his time discovering ways to
increase the bar and telling others to hold his beer.

To keep Apeiron from being evil we have to do something that he couldn't resist, we need something that
is impossible for him to resist and use his weak point, the sheer need to show off.

Is time to make memes.


►Brockton Man #28
Replied On Apr 26th 2011:
>This is wrong on so many levels that if you don't understand the concept of innocent until proven guilty then I don't think anybody can help you.

Oh, please. Innocent until proven guilty is something you do in a court of law. We're not in a court of law here. I didn't say they should arrest Apeiron for that. The PRT has plenty of other things to arrest him for including probably a whole lot of things that aren't in Apeiron's speeches at all. But he's too powerful to arrest, just like Lung was before Apeiron's gang and the rage dragon's gang had their gang war.

And for all the people who say Apeiron can heal case 53s, I bet he had something to do with creating them. He basically turned into one himself, so I wouldn't be surprised. There are like a couple dozen case 53s in the whole world and yet there are a whole bunch in Brockton Bay. Isn't this a bit of a coincidence?


►LostBoy420
Replied On Apr 26th 2011:
@Brockton Man #28
I feel like you may have a flawed perception on the amount of Case 53s if you actually believe 'a couple dozen case 53s in the whole world' is a number even close to how many are really around. I can name off the top of my head a solid 'dozen' and that's only the PRT affiliated ones. Take into account the various Case 53s scattered throughout the other factions and it easily reaches over a hundred... and that's in the US alone!

Take into the populations on other continents and you could easily reach a few thousand. Lets not even get into the amount that are probably trapped in a camp somewhere by the CUI or the ones that probably got offed by some warlord in Africa before anyone even knew they existed.

May they rest in Peace.

@McMuffinThird

So your saying that in order to prevent Aperion. Mr 'three day old tech' himself from doing anything more outlandish, we need to out crazy him?

Because I don't know about you, but I think even we may have met are match there.

However, I'm a big believer in the 'never give up until its over' mentality. So lets do it! Bring on the Memes!


►TheParcelMan
Replied On Apr 26th 2011:
Hang on, what if we are looking at this wrong, what if his thinker power is an anti-master power, panenca was possibly mastered by her sister, that weird ending to that conversation with Dragon might mean that Dragon has been mastered and Aperion figured it out?

►MemeticLectern
Replied On Apr 26th 2011:
What the fuck. I guess the assholes over on the medical thread were right, but C53 cure!?!??!?!?! As for his Dino-form, is it safe to say Apeiron is a former C53??? Perhaps no longer former though...

►LegendsButt
Replied On Apr 26th 2011:
Ugh @TheParcelman its highly unlikely any Master could get to Dragon as she's in her remote Canadian tinkertech bunker filled to the brim with automated defense. I mean the only way dragon was Mastered is if they had direct access to her base and she is a known recluse.


►MaineLion
Replied On Apr 26th 2011:
Don't the Dragonslayers raid her base from time to time? Isn't that how they got famous? Clearly somebody knows where she is and how to get to her. Plus, wasn't there a thread a while back examining Saint's actions and trying to figure out which Master got to him? I assumed it was all tinfoil at the time, but if Dragon is maybe mastered, and Saint is maybe mastered, and Saint knows where Dragon's base is, might be worth reexamining that thread.

As for the thing about curing C53s, how much control do you think he has? Do you think he could, just as a totally random example, fix my hands and spine, without messing with anything else too bad?


►Twoplustwoisfish
Replied On Apr 26th 2011:
@ledgendsButt

Now here me out... But what if the reason dragon is so isolated isn't that she is an agoraphobe, but she is secretly some Master's pet tinker who gave the instructions to obey all authority figures, to make people not suspect a thing? Since the Master would be her authority figure they would never be disobeyed, but they also get good PR from their pet tinker! I mean look, dragon literally said she can't disobey authority! And as soon as apeiron said he knew, she suddenly is hell-bent on stopping him? What if this is said Master's secondary orders to her to stop people who figure out she is mastered?!?

Edit: I mean, isn't the best way to hide that you have such a powerful pet tinker is to make them obey gov't authority? .... Wait... PET tinker... Teacher's PET..... AHHHHHHHHH



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►Judge (Moderator)
Replied On Apr 26th 2011:
@Twoplustwoisfish Please stop fear mongering and take those to the conspiracy thread. You won't get a warning due to the content being actually related to the topic, but this thread will now be watched heavily for any further cases. Do not test our patience. It was bad enough when the thread erupted with anti-PRT responses.



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