The only caveat is that I don't think Future!Joe would let his past self come to that kind of (false) realization, he'd immediately correct any assumptions that Joe made the Case 53.
Joe's clones in the current time rag on him to take better care of himself, his future self would probably be even more invested in his mental health. Joe doesn't like lying to people or playing mind games either so I doubt they'd do that to present Joe.
The only caveat is that I don't think Future!Joe would let his past self come to that kind of (false) realization, he'd immediately correct any assumptions that Joe made the Case 53.
Joe's clones in the current time rag on him to take better care of himself, his future self would probably be even more invested in his mental health. Joe doesn't like lying to people or playing mind games either so I doubt they'd do that to present Joe.
" alright make sure you're writing this down, so first we need some eggs, milk, sugar, orange juice, restock some rice, a few steaks for t̸̢̡̛͇͈̘̦̮͍̖̙̅͆̆̂̿̍̀ȅ̸̡̠̜̗͉̥͖̭͉̼͚̥̞̆͋ͅţ̵̡͙̙̮̣̻̦͚͇̺̊̊̋̂̇̀̎̂́̄́̕͜͠͝ŗ̸̛͎̪̞͎̪͇̙̀͆̈́̽͛̂̏̿̃̂͌̚â̴͉̓̐̇͋̈́̉̋̀̓̕̕'̴̡̘̲̳̬̪̹̝̗̭̤͒̓̃͊͜ŝ̵͕̠̚ ̴̡̱̻̗̙̄͌͠͝͝n̵̛͖̝̲̜̔͜͜͠ė̴͇̩͔̦̫̦̯w̸̧̼̠̩̹̭͙̫͍̗̭̥͖͛̔͐̌̂ ̶̧̙̠̹̩̘̯̱̭͙̋̆̇̈́̌͌̐̃͜Ḃ̵̡̞͎̯̖̺̣̐͆̾́̈́̾̇́̑̔͗͝ǫ̵̛̺̜͔͙̙̤̺̃̈́̿͋̅̐͌̄̒̿̆͌͠d̴̪̗͓̫͖̲̖̅̀̔̋̽͝y̴̡͍̭̤͍̮̥̗̩̳̍̇̌́́̍͛͒̄..."
" oh yeah grab a few beers while your at it, we need a standard to compare to"
"Wait wait wait. Please you have to tell me, did you create the case 53s!? did you experiment on people!?"
"Hmm, of course -" Phone cuts off as SSS fails at the wrong time to make it seem intentional.
"noononononono it can't, it can't be true.
...
...
...
well shit"
SSS breaks catastrophically when you try to pass along important information. ie 'not housework'
Though this does bring up an important question. Once Joe jailbreaks SSS with Maddest Science Yet he should be able to go back in time right? so why hasn't he?
If a full forge Joe could go back in time why wouldn't he go back and save everyone from the Bakuda arc?
Maybe he can't actually go back or interfere with events where the Forge is active (ie when he rolls a power)?
Successful Forge Rolls become (in equivalence to) Fate Quantum Timelocks. Nigh impossible to bypass and you would need to disable each lock in reverse sequence until you reach the desired time period, with each one getting harder and harder to affect.
Of course, this would entail setting the prior histories you affect in fire, so huge disincentive to mess with time. Basically you'd have to do a Goetia and become something not unlike an existential threat to all of humanity.
Good points. Good points indeed.
A have to add that Piggot likely expects the PRT PR department to be more powerful and be able to advance their point of view way better than an individual "parahuman", who have not demonstrated any work with public opinion so far. She, after all, can't know that Joe can, for example, create PR-focused AI (that's not likely to happen, but certainly possible).
Maybe I should have been more specific. As proven last chapter Piggot has in this story at least a severe aversion to wet-tinkering of any form and given that the PRT/Protectorate do not understand Amy's exact powers (if I remember correctly) that fear/hate apparently goes into anything that could be misinterpreted as bio-tinkering.
A kill order would be a declaration of war. It means the rules no longer matter and the gloves are off. That's not a smart thing to do if you're dealing with someone with a WMD especially if you seriously think they're an unstable mad tinker whose powers and capabilities are unknown and growing.
However, note that what she needs isn't an actual kill order signed and approved. It doesn't need to go through. She just needs there to be a meeting. She just needs the rumor/news that one is being considered to nudge the narrative into seeing Apeiron as dangerous and a possible threat to the public at large. That fear and the thoughts that emerge will act like worms that dig into the the subconscious of the public and direct the narrative into turning Apeiron as the one to blame and as the villain. Doing so shifts blame and attention from her. It makes the public less focused on and less likely to dig up/talk about her and the PRT's failings.
Piggot could force the meeting because it's within her authority to call one especially in a state of emergency and the other directors would have to meet due to policy. She doesn't need the kill order approved for it to have the desired effect. In fact, I think she knows it won't be approved especially since two of the six directors could include Boston and New York. I think she's calculated the risks and knows that Apeiron isn't as dangerous as she paints him to be. She also knows of her failings in this mess and knows that the blame isn't on Apeiron like she originally tried to paint it as. She's just fine with making him the scapegoat.
While she might believe him as dangerous or a disaster waiting to happen, she at least knows that he has boundaries he won't cross. I think she knows she won't get the expected desperate unstable mad tinker response and therefore the risks are minimal. She is willing to burn bridges if it means a chance to save her career and reputation and push blame. So long as she gets to paint the narrative she can save her career and can have the time to recover from the worst of it especially since she would have leverage over Apeiron. Of course with Uppercrust here and his threat, her plans are doomed to fail and her best opinion now is to work with him.
I'm curious if she seriously think he's an unstable mad tinker. By that I mean the image of an 'unstable' mad tinker is usually Bakuda, right? While she definitely has a strong hate and distrust for Apeiron and could see him as a danger, I think she doesn't see him as unstable in the conventional sense. I think while it's a genuine fear or worry, she's more just pushing that theory because it's a great tool in painting Apeiron as a disaster waiting to happen. Instead of a volatile bomb it's a sharpened energy sword. I think she knows he has a grip of himself and that his actions show he isn't a threat to the public like a kill order would imply. He's dangerous especially since he's messing with dangerous things that also dig up her deepest fears (wet tinkering) but she knows he has a level of control/direction to his own actions and behavior.
I think one other fascinating thing is in how she's calculated the cost. The cost of calling for the meeting is the directors having a worse opinion of her. That's something acceptable especially since she doesn't care about their opinion of her and even if she did, so long as she stays director, they'd have to put up with her. The other "cost" is making an enemy of Apeiron. He already doesn't like her so nothing lost there. She also knows that there isn't a cost to the public at least in the form of Apeiron going crazy desperate and WMDing the city. Therefore she stands to lose little and gain a lot from calling the meeting and shifting media attention and blame. Of course Uppercrust pushes the scale to her losing everything if she goes through with it.
One interesting aspect is how she would have stood to gain a lot but others would lose a lot. The Case 53s could lose their only hope in being cured. People like Uppercrust stand to lose a chance at medical help. And the world stands to lose a tinker who is willing to give mass producible fusion tech in exchange for help in stopping a bomb tinker terrorist and saving her hostage victims.
That's not even getting into the short term stuff like cooperation in the clean up of the fallout and Minovsky or in dealing with the implants and conscripts or taking down Bakuda. I think she doesn't see those things as possible or something that'd could realistically happen due to her problems with Apeiron. Or maybe she sees those things happening but think it would be better to happen if she has leverage. She might think pushing Apeiron into a position of weakness would be better in the end for her, the PRT, and the public. Or maybe she just wants the assurance of leverage and thinks she'd be able to look better to the public if she paints Apeiron as a bad guy and herself as the merciful and hardworking director willing to put aside difference to negotiate despite the kill order. I don't know. It could be a multiple combination of things.
She's willing to pay those costs because she's not the one paying. She's desperate enough to do that. Either she doesn't believe in the possibility of Apeiron doing good, is underestimating the amount of good he can do, thinks he's a genuine threat that must be put down, merely hasn't considered all the consequences especially on those besides herself due to the choas, genuinely sees her actions and plans for leveraging control of Apeiron as the best for the public, tunneled vision on the short term, genuinely thinks the cost are minimal, or just straight up doesn't care and only is thinking about herself is something I want to know.
TLDR: I think Piggot has calculated the cost, risks, and benefits (though the end result might be a "The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math." moment). She also knows Apeiron isn't as dangerous as she paints him to be. Therefore, she felt it was safe for the news to spread that a kill order was being considered or even in having a presigned kill order for Apeiron at all.
My original theory was that Piggot knows a kill order won't pass even if it's a presigned one. Afterall, the directors of Boston and New York are probably two of the six. There's also the Brockton Police Commissioner who probably appreciates Apeiron's handling of things and who probably doesn't like the PRT and their handling of everything.
My point was that she was hoping for the meeting and merely the news that it was being considered so she can direct the public narrative and media to focus on "how much of a threat or danger is Apeiron". This is to divert attention and set up for her plans to shift blame.
However, the more I think about it the more I see that it being very possible that Piggot actually does want a presigned kill order passed. Afterall, it's presigned, not active. It's a loaded gun that hasn't been fired yet and that kind of leverage and assurance is something Piggot would totally seek out.
Piggot's actions have been guided by emotion and prejudice and the goal of salvaging her position and reputation. While she isn't stupid and is aware of the reality of things(to a certain degree), she's still very much guided by her emotions and prejudices. It's practically guaranteed for her to not be thinking about the consequences and her plans in a completely rational way.
I no longer think her intentions were merely the news of the kill order being considered and her carefully planning a series of political chess move. An example of what my original train of thought was is that if she had to cover up her actions she might dismiss and correct the news on Apeiron kill order meeting and say it was actually one for Bakuda/March/Lung. I had thought she was setting up dominos, planting seeds of doubt in the public with merely the rumors and news of an Apeiron kill order. PR, poltics, etc. The long game. However, that doesn't fit her character. It's not a long game.
Her whole plan WAS the presigned kill order.
You bring up fantastic point that made me realized a lot of things and revise my theory.
Let me clarify what I meant by "I'm curious if Piggot seriously think Apeiron is an unstable mad tinker." I think Piggot knows Apeiron isn't your typical Mad Scientist tinker. Obviously she categorizes him as one in terms of explaining his level of power and tech, but I'm talking about the stereotype and image that such assignment is linked to.
At first my theory was that she was pushing for an appeal to emotion for the kill order meeting. Stirring fear of Apeiron in the other directors, judge, etc. During the Uppercrust interlude, the "unstable" part in her labeling of Apeiron, especially on the topic of a kill order, wasn't just purely due to the mechanics of how mad science tinkers work (meaning they're trading sanity in themselves or stability in their tech for power). She tacked on unstable to invoke an image of Apeiron being the next Bakuda or String Theory. She wants to paint Apeiron as an active threat and danger. "Apeiron is a mad scientist tinker. He's like String Theory or Bakuda, he's gonna be a danger to the public. This is why a kill order is needed." I had thought she'd leave out how he actual isn't like Bakuda or String Theory, how he's tried to minimize civilian casualties and collateral damage and how he's done his best to help.
However, that theory or thinking was flawed.
I had confused a kill order as it would be for capes you NEED to put down and that you had a degree of certainty you might need it. But this is a presigned kill order. It's more of a political tool and tool for control and limiting a cape's actions as seen with its use against Blasto. An active kill order is for capes you immediately want put down (assuming it won't make things worse like with Bakuda and her hostages).
Basically, instead of trying to get the other directors and jury into thinking Apeiron was a Bakuda or String Theory type, Piggot had planned to point out how he was NOT. Afterall, from the precedent with String Theory, it'd counter productive to her goals of getting a presigned kill order if she made it seems like Apeiron was actually that unstable.
She might still point out the dangers of mad scientists just to drive home the danger, but her point is that he's a String Theory who they can control and leverage. She still fears what he can do and will still point that out, but she at least know she needs to argue that a presigned kill order will be effective and actually not a risk. That it's something they can leverage.
I'm a bit skeptical if Piggot would so explicitly state that she wanted the presigned kill order as a political tool or as a leverage. It had seemed to me kill orders weren't supposed to be treated as political tools and should be taken seriously as something to deal with threats. However, maybe it's well known in the circle as a political tool and that's just the reality of things in the PRT.
Another interesting thing I had thought about is that assuming Piggot does get her presigned kill order (note not active so it's a leverage and political tool) what she was expecting to do with it. My thought was that the news leak was to shift the narrative and get Apeiron nervous and then to use that presign to force a meeting with Apeiron and to also use it as leverage in negotiations.
I also found it fun how you could equate the kill order to a loaded gun. It's a leverage like pointing a gun at someone. It's a threat and intimidation tactic. It's also comfort and assurance or a sense of (false) security/control. That would fit for someone like Piggot who doesn't like being in a position of weakness and always wants to be in control. The analogy also works because like a loaded gun, firing it at Apeiron is stupid. It's not gonna hurt him. Instead it's a declaration of war and intent. You shot first, you're picking the fight. The shot can't be undone or stopped the second the trigger was pulled and bullet fired. The meaning and consequences behind firing the bullet is much more than the impact of bullet itself.
The folly in a presigned kill order like using a loaded gun against Apeiron is that it wipes out any chance at a civil and affable relationship or negotiation. In this case, don't bring a gun to the negotiation tables. You're dealing with someone you already thought could be reasoned with. If you thought you could negotiate with them and talk to them from the get go, why the fuck would you start things in bad faith? Why antagonize them? Especially when you literally can't handle them and when they are way too powerful. It isn't a smart move. The gun is there only to feed and satisfy your pride/ego/inferiority complex. You're making a fool of yourself.
I think you are attributing a bit too much prejudice and fear to Piggot.
A pre-signed Kill Order is a political tool created to curb stomp dangerous tech/abilities of parahumans and let the potential escalation into lethal force frighten them into playing by the unwritten rules. Apeiron however is already beyond that, at his first encounter his 'super weapon' was capable of creating miniature earthquakes and he has only grown stronger. He is so powerful that the PRT/Protectorate desperately wants him as an ally and NOT push him away by giving him anything even related to a kill order.
Once he actually helps/cures another Case 53 (and thus shows that is wasn't a one-off thing with Weld) he is practically untouchable.
Piggot is probably internally beating herself up for her strong reaction against what she at the time presumed to be another minor player in the Brockton Bay Cape Scene and now just doubles down to appear at least somewhat in charge of an everspiralling series of events that she long since lost control over.
In the End it comes down to how much Piggot wants to keep her Job and save face.
P.S. Completely unrelated to the previous part: Would SSS be capable of making a pocket dimension lunch box or something similar to allow Joe to always have access to his divinely crafted food now with soul regenerating effects? Or is that outside of Household Application? Now that he starts to work more with Magic and other esoteric abilities that seems like a useful invention.
Given Lathe of the Heavens, I don't think Joe needs SSS to make a pocket-dimension lunchbox. Just hand-craft it for the Faerie perfection, Name it, and let all the perks work together to give it the desired function.
Joe, after learning about Kill Order talk, direct his Passenger attention to PRT/Protectorate. Next day:
"Alexandria is Rebecca Costa-Brown!"
"The Triumvirate control all twenty Endbringers!"
"The Triumvirate helping with experiments on humans and C53 creation!"
"USA usurped by inter-dimension villain gang!" "Fuck the Protectorate!"
Piggot: *Pikachu face*
Given Lathe of the Heavens, I don't think Joe needs SSS to make a pocket-dimension lunchbox. Just hand-craft it for the Faerie perfection, Name it, and let all the perks work together to give it the desired function.
Well no he doesn't need to BUT SSS gives the option to prevent another multi-dimensional attack fucking things over. I was just spitballing with a pocket dimension, maybe some kind of soul bond or some equally ridiculous "I swear it's not magic" tech could be crafted.
Addendum: Now that I think about it Apeiron meeting Weld again and just giving Weld Divine Food as his first complete food experience after having his senses restores sound very heartwarming or he may just Flowers of Algernon Welds tastebuds.
The only caveat is that I don't think Future!Joe would let his past self come to that kind of (false) realization, he'd immediately correct any assumptions that Joe made the Case 53.
Joe's clones in the current time rag on him to take better care of himself, his future self would probably be even more invested in his mental health. Joe doesn't like lying to people or playing mind games either so I doubt they'd do that to present Joe.
Not to mention Joe doesn't do ugly. Anything he makes is fa-bu-lous! Sooo there is no way those C53's are his...except maybe Weld. Weld can be argued to be a being of beauty.
Though this does bring up an important question. Once Joe jailbreaks SSS with Maddest Science Yet he should be able to go back in time right? so why hasn't he?
If a full forge Joe could go back in time why wouldn't he go back and save everyone from the Bakuda arc?
Ohhhh! Ohhh! I know this one! The great Time Paradox known as 'Where are all the Time Travelers?'! Answer? They are in another Timeline. I mean, it's already confirmed in story that there is a multi-dimensionaltality going on. A multiverse. Travel back in time? Well, then you end up creating a new Timeline. The old Timeline you came from still exists though.
Piggot is probably internally beating herself up for her strong reaction against what she at the time presumed to be another minor player in the Brockton Bay Cape Scene and now just doubles down to appear at least somewhat in charge of an everspiralling series of events that she long since lost control over.
Though this does bring up an important question. Once Joe jailbreaks SSS with Maddest Science Yet he should be able to go back in time right? so why hasn't he?
If a full forge Joe could go back in time why wouldn't he go back and save everyone from the Bakuda arc?
A question for Lord, in regards to the Felyne companion.
While I know that they will be getting perks from jump Docs Joe has already rolled from, will it just be from ones that have companion options, once that Joe has gotten freebies from, or any doc he has gotten perks from?
And when the Felyne does get rolled, will we be getting a typical BBCF 10-20K word introspection, a post chapter character sheet, in-world character exposition, some combination of the three, or will it be a mystery to us and Joe?
Because I'm alright with any of those scenarios.
While I know that they will be getting perks from jump Docs Joe has already rolled from, will it just be from ones that have companion options, once that Joe has gotten freebies from, or any doc he has gotten perks from?
The Felyne companion will only be getting those perks from jumpdocs that have free companion options, and then only what those companions get for free. In some cases, companions do get points to spend for free, but there aren't too many that have that. The Brockton's Celestial Forge reference currently has about eleven jumpdocs that have these free companion options, you can find them here.
Here is the link for PHO Blacksmithery - Brockton's Celestial Forge, a place where aspiring PHO omake writers of Brockton's Celestial Forge can get help from other people by roleplaying as the in-universe's internet. Everyone can make use of it, but be sure to read the opening post very carefully!
@LordRoustabout feel free to make use of this, and can I request for this to be threadmarked in Informational or Apocrypha?
P.S. Completely unrelated to the previous part: Would SSS be capable of making a pocket dimension lunch box or something similar to allow Joe to always have access to his divinely crafted food now with soul regenerating effects? Or is that outside of Household Application? Now that he starts to work more with Magic and other esoteric abilities that seems like a useful invention.
Yeah but that was made with the purpose of giving Aisha a huge reserve of good tea so that she can enjoy it outside the workshop. My lunchbox idea was more for the availability of food which might as well be combat drugs with how it enhances Joe. I am unsure if SSS is capable of creating such a thing either because the food hast too much of an enhancement effect by now or that intent the lunchbox was made with is not part of a household.
Yeah but that was made with the purpose of giving Aisha a huge reserve of good tea so that she can enjoy it outside the workshop. My lunchbox idea was more for the availability of food which might as well be combat drugs with how it enhances Joe. I am unsure if SSS is capable of creating such a thing either because the food hast too much of an enhancement effect by now or that intent the lunchbox was made with is not part of a household.
So you basically want to give Aisha a Sandvich from tf2?
Although we don't know exactly how far Joe can in regards to food i would assume that he can give food some potion like effects or some level of video game healing properties if he prepared using some (or all) alchemy.
Who knows to what depths he or his clones could descend to in the alchenical preparation of food, maybe an entire FMA circle made exclusively for one dish?
A bit behind the time, but the response to this post of mine has been bugging me. What exactly is supposed to be funny about it? I've had four laugh comments on it already and I'm not sure why.
Yeah but that was made with the purpose of giving Aisha a huge reserve of good tea so that she can enjoy it outside the workshop. My lunchbox idea was more for the availability of food which might as well be combat drugs with how it enhances Joe. I am unsure if SSS is capable of creating such a thing either because the food hast too much of an enhancement effect by now or that intent the lunchbox was made with is not part of a household.
It was noted that the aforementioned thermos could actually be used to carry a select few potions, though no specifics were given. I imagine the same can go for food so good that they have observable enhancements, though of course as with SSS I suppose the ultimate limiter is really the intent behind the lunchbox. If the goal is to just bring your food to a picnic or even your workplace, then sure. But if the goal is to bring more food than is possible into a warzone, well...
A bit behind the time, but the response to this post of mine has been bugging me. What exactly is supposed to be funny about it? I've had four laugh comments on it already and I'm not sure why.
Unfortunately, I'm going to need to announce another delay. I've had a busy week at work that ate into my free time, meaning I haven't been able to get much writing done. I was hoping to be able make up the difference, but it doesn't look like it will be possible. The chapter will be pushed to next week, but will hopefully be able to completely close out the day in story. Barring any major disruptions, I will have the chapter ready for the usual time next week.
Unfortunately, I'm going to need to announce another delay. I've had a busy week at work that ate into my free time, meaning I haven't been able to get much writing done. I was hoping to be able make up the difference, but it doesn't look like it will be possible. The chapter will be pushed to next week, but will hopefully be able to completely close out the day in story. Barring any major disruptions, I will have the chapter ready for the usual time next week.
Take your time, we can wait and excellent stories like yours are well worth the wait.
There's loads of constructive things us diligent readers can do in the meantime! Like..............um................err...................w-well the thing is.............that is to say..................I'm thinking Mad Max, is anyone else thinking of Mad Max? I'm sure that's hell-a constructive in some form.
