Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

The clones get the original tinker specialization. For Joe, they wouldn't be that threatening. But more importantly, the clones are evil and keep their memories, so they would be extremely happy to spill the beans about Joe's dirty secrets (like his dozen of S class threats in his workshop).
Unsure how LordR would deal with any eventual Joe clones. I think that the only reason clones get memories of their host is because the host's shard has been with them and that it exchanged data with Noelle's shard. Meaning that they cant get any memories of normal people. Then again Cranial is a thing so I'm unsure under what specifications Noelle's shard is under.
 
Secondly, he mentioned, multiple times, that was Wards' fault just as much, or even more, than Undersiders.
I wouldn't say even more than especially when Wards didn't aim to cut people to pieces, or put black widows on people. Fact is both sides escalated but it was undersiders especially Taylor that took it to far. Heck Joe admitted his bias when trying to defend the undersiders and his inner thought made it quite clear that he also view the undersiders at fault for their actions and even thought the undersiders cross a line, he woul have rather is the undersiders hadn't robbed the bank.

That's why there's lord WoG that mentioned Joe wouldn't trust the undersiders that much anymore especially with anymore weapons. It was quite clear that Joe was a angry with the undersiders for their actions more than the Wards, he just held it back, and was more frustrated with Wards actions taken during the bank heist. The wards may have screw up true but the undersiders took it too far.
 
I wouldn't say even more
That's why I said "just as much or even more".

Wards didn't aim to cut people to pieces, or put black widows on people
Yes. they just cornered 'siders.
And about Aegislash - he's used "suicide attack". And they didn't exactly had any optiont to take him down other than what they did.

I'm not going to say 'siders is pure, innocent people. But in "bank clusterfuck" everyone had their fair share of mistakes and bad decisions.
 
they didn't exactly had any optiont to take him down other than what they did.
That's the thing they did have other options, Grue darkness, Rachel dogs flinging him away, and other more. Heck in Canon Aegis got taken out by Rachel dogs without being cut to pieces. At least in this fic Taylor seems to acknowledge she cross a line and there's a WoG that mentioned she will show more restraint, which is a good thing compare to her canon attitude.
 
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they did have other options, Grue darkness
Not actually that useful in that case, since he could've just fly up, and then watch where they're going. And dogs can't outrun him, iirc.

Rachel dogs flinging him away
And? He'll just fly back.

Heck in Canon Aegis got taken out by Rachel dogs without being cut to pieces.
When he pretended to be a Clockblocker. Catch a flying, highly maneuverable target is hard, you know.

They couldn't afford to fight him for long, because they'd get dogpiled (by PRT troops, and, possible, Velocity, then Armsmaster and/or Dauntless, then other heroes, and there's also New Wave who could've joined the party).
 
Not actually that useful in that case, since he could've just fly up, and then watch where they're going. And dogs can't outrun him, iirc.
Rachel dogs are quite fast, but anyway if the undersiders had decided to run Taylor could've also interfere with bugs, there's also the fact that the he would have been force to not pursue by the PRT.
And? He'll just fly back.
Maybe or by then the undersiders would have been gone, or the dogs could have ping him down for a while, and Taylor could have harass him with bugs by blocking his vision. And yes I'm aware how difficult it is catching a flying brute, but Aegis still needs to get close range and Rachel dog have been proven to be quite fast. Any way I don't know why you're trying to defend Taylor actions, because there always other options, that could have been taken. And there's also the fact that had the undersiders had chosen to just escape Aegis would have been force to remain at the bank and focus on the hostages.
Because if then how did in canon the undersiders manage to escape from the bank without the heroes chasing them. You do know they are known as escape artist.
 
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Any way I don't know why you're trying to defend Taylor actions
I often defend someone's actions. Because I believe that events need to be viewed from different angles in order to get an objective picture.

because there always other options, that could have been taken.
Indeed. They could've surrender, and avoid all that mess. What an insightful idea! /s

Taylor could've also interfere with bugs, there's also the fact that the he would have been force to not pursue by the PRT.
You mean even higher escalation? Instead of wounding one Brute, who most likely can survive it, attack dozens of people with poisonous bugs. Good idea, yes.
And since PRT troopers have full-body armor, I don't sure that even could've worked. Or you mean attack civilians?

And there's also the fact that had the undersiders had chosen to just escape Aegis would have been force to remain at the bank and focus on the hostages.
Is that so? I don't believe he would've let them go. He set his mind.

Because if then how did in canon the undersiders manage to escape from the bank without the heroes chasing them.
Different situations, different outcomes. In canon Aegis, almost certainly, was less pissed off and desperate.
 
Indeed. They could've surrender, and avoid all that mess.
.....really
You mean even higher escalation? Instead of wounding one Brute, who most likely can survive it, attack dozens of people with poisonous bugs. Good idea, yes.
And since PRT troopers have full-body armor, I don't sure that even could've worked. Or you mean attack civilians?
How you get higher escalation from that, and wounding the brute, I said harass or distract I meant more using both Grue darkness and Taylor bugs, or maybe even use Tattletale and Regent to help with that, who said anything about wounding them. Also where the hell you get attacking the PRT troopers and civilians, that wasn't relevant to the discussion about how to deal with Aegis.
Is that so? I don't believe he would've let them go. He set his mind.
He would have to follow orders, didn't that happen before with PRT heroes or Ward every time they engage into a chase with villain in which they were order to disengage. Plus as Joe said the hostages would have been more important to the heroes than the Villains, Aegis would have been order to focus on them eventually, if the undersiders had just decided to escape.

There's always other options to take, I don't defend one actions when there's always more that could have been taken that would have been taken better or less damaging. I'm also being objective on the other possible options in that scenario, Taylor cutting Aegis to pieces wasn't the only method to deal with him.
 
How you get higher escalation from that, and wounding the brute
Looks like we both missreaded each other's comments here.
I've read you comment
Taylor could've also interfere with bugs, there's also the fact that the he would have been force to not pursue by the PRT.
as "Taylor could've interfere with bugs to ensure PRT won't pursue them", or something like that.
And you've read my answer
Instead of wounding one Brute
as "Instead of what they did, they could've wound one Brute", it's seems.

I said harass or distract I meant more using both Grue darkness and Taylor bugs
I already said what I think about darkness. It useful for combat, but not so much for stealth and throwing off pursuers who can fly.
Bugs... Depend of how much flying bugs Taylor had "right here and now". Because there was no time to gather swarms from afar.

that wasn't relevant to the discussion about how to deal with Aegis.
That very much relevant. Because each second they spent on Aegis was a second that PRT used to get close to them. And another chance that the rest of New Wave appeared, especially since that was on live streamed on TV.

Overall - yes, they, likely, could've figure something to deal with him without Aegislash. But they didn't have time to execute any time consuming plans (even if they'd make something on the fly).

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There's always other options to take, I don't defend one actions when there's always more that could have been taken that would have been taken better or less damaging.
Why didn't I see where you deconstruct Wards' actions, then? There definitely was a bunch of things "that could have been taken that would have been taken better or less damaging".
 
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Why didn't I see where you deconstruct Wards' actions, then? There definitely was a bunch of things "that could have been taken that would have been taken better or less damaging".
Joe already did that for me, there wasn't much deconstruction on the action of the undersiders, plus again we're focusing on how to deal Aegis.


But anyway let's just agree to disagree, because no matter how many point either of us throw at each other on the possible different actions that could have been taken in the time constraint the undersiders have. Especially on how their powers could have been used for it, in the end it just our opinion with neither of us are right about it, like the thing about Grue smoke, or Taylor bugs and distractions or escaping, or if the heroes would have been there by the time the undersiders had escape and would have lost their pursuers and other stuff.
 
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Joe already did that for me, there wasn't much deconstruction on the action of the undersiders, plus again we're focusing on how to deal Aegis.


But anyway let's just agree to disagree, because no matter how many point either of us throw at each other on the possible different actions that could have been taken in the time constraint the undersiders have. Especially on how their powers could have been used for it, in the end it just our opinion with neither of us are right about it, like the thing about Grue smoke, or Taylor bugs and distractions or escaping, or if the heroes would have been there by the time the undersiders had escape and would have lost their pursuers and other stuff.

Ahhh, yes, because Taylor is clearly a highly intelligent, super accelerated thinking veteran soldier like Joe, and totally not a adrenaline fueled teenager. That is the biggest problem with your argument. Yes. There MIGHT HAVE BEEN other ways. ways that a professional soldier would think of as they are experienced and trained to remain cool and collected in the heat of battle. Taylor is not that. Taylor is a teenager. A young teenager at that, in what is perhaps her second major fight, hopped up on adrenaline.

Also, Koraans point about the swarm stands. Given Aegis was barreling down on her it is highly unlikely there were enough useful bugs in the near vicinity that she could summon to her aid that could actually help to stop the 'unkillable flying brute'. As for Grue's Darkness...he was using it. His darkness is where Taylor was running to when Aegis tried to run her down. It's not like she went after him or just stood there waiting for him.
 
The swarm and smoke point wouldn't stand especially how in canon they manage to perform their usual hit and run tactics. And I wasn't comparing Taylor to Joe, I mentioned Joe deconstruction of the Wards actions and the undersiders, more so the wards than the undersiders. Where did you get the comparison of Joe and Taylor from?.

I could bother arguing and countering those point, but I already said to agree to disagree and end the argument there since it just go in circle and I was trying to be the bigger person by preventing a argument that would take tons of pages later. And I already said neither side can't be corrected in their assumptions, your points too wouldn't be right either, and so are mine. So that your opinion and I have my mine neither can be correct. Let's end this before it blows out proportion, and stop bringing a argument that was already ended by both sides.
 
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Corporate Contact (The Shallow)
So we know that the kind of energy Joe gets from the call beads can be "flavoured" by the source. If Joe were more aware of where his powers come from, I can easily see him using a Eru Illuvitar call bead + Arcane Craft + That Undifinable Thing to help him with his enchanting + Belmont Alchemy ventures. Heck go a step further, make a necklace that can hold an Eru-bead, give it Heretical Adaption, all the other boosts, and Name it something like Fae (Sindarin for Soul), and boom, ultimate enchanting focus.

Heck take it a step further and use Eru-gems, with a specific apparatus holding it, connecting to the soul via the handles ig.

Sadly, this is not likely to happen soon, since Joe is not likely to conduct such research. If at any point Survey or a clone makes the Transformers Connection(due to managing PR) though... Infact quick little omake!

Corporate Contact

Joe 2 smiled as he finalized the changes. The map website had been a rather barebones thing, initially just apeironbb.com/map, now it also had a basic /get-in-contact page and a hosted email, plus an additional /statements page, for any necessary Press Releases for the future. He nodded to himself. Public Relations couldn't be ingored anymore.

The last Joe 2 had announced the thing over PHO yesterday, but as was Joe's nature, until Joe Prime saw it, the Joe 2s would go over the website with a fine-toothed comb, trying to make it the best it could be.

There was a basic VI that sorted emails into categories, either sending scripted response, or forwarding them to the current Joe 2. The current email being read was a long and wordy email from a Hasbro PR Executive, essentially boiling down to "Your use of robots that use a Transformers™ sound effect is nice, but it's hurting sales. Please stop.". There was some extra legalese, but Joe 2 forwarded the email to Survey, while frowning. Transformers? He quickly found a youtube clip of a weird 80s show, the machines shown witthin looking like crude limitations of the tech Joe could build thanks to Master Builder, the transformation sequences nearly identical to their own.

Master Builder gave them Transformers tech...

Another 2 minutes of searching helped Joe 2 find multiple other franchises connected to the tech they could build, and he started a list.

The most interesting of which was Lord Of The Rings. Joe had read the series in middle school, but digging through the lore gave Joe 2 a great idea. Specifically using Call Beads connected to the creator god (Elven Enchantment allowed them to access the Unseen, why not that which lies beyond?) Eru Illuvitar.

Joe 1 sent a ping, asking for some help with a second extraction effort. He got up, sprinting to the medical bay. He could work on their pet project later.
 
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Interesting, this seem quite the decent Omake to add, if only Joe could increase the amount of clones he could create, it would have made things so much easier.
Just wait till Mixing Mixtures (just 200CP!!!); 8 clones, according to WOL.
For productivity reasons I imagine they'd have 1 Joe actively monitoring and shit, while the second pops in every once in a while, but mostly works on upkeep and keeping track of the situation outside. Of course, due to Joe being near Deaths Door, neither can ever leave.
 
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There was a basic VI that sorted emails into categories, either sending scripted response, or forwarding them to the current Joe 2. The current email being read was a long and wordy email from a Hasbro PR Executive, essentially boiling down to "Your use of robots that use a Transformers™ sound effect is nice, but it's hurting sales. Please stop.".
Wouldn't seeing real-life Transformers-esque machines with the added sound effect cause a boost in sales?
 
So we know that the kind of energy Joe gets from the call beads can be "flavoured" by the source. If Joe were more aware of where his powers come from, I can easily see him using a Eru Illuvitar call bead + Arcane Craft + That Undifinable Thing to help him with his enchanting + Belmont Alchemy ventures. Heck go a step further, make a necklace that can hold an Eru-bead, give it Heretical Adaption, all the other boosts, and Name it something like Fae (Sindarin for Soul), and boom, ultimate enchanting focus.

Heck take it a step further and use Eru-gems, with a specific apparatus holding it, connecting to the soul via the handles ig.

Sadly, this is not likely to happen soon, since Joe is not likely to conduct such research. If at any point Survey or a clone makes the Transformers Connection(due to managing PR) though...
I don't think he could make an Eru-Illuvatar call bead.
 
I don't think he could make an Eru-Illuvatar call bead.
Imagine though if he could. He would be able to say with a straight face that he "has the power of God and Anime on his side!" and he would be 100% correct/truthful.

Imagine also this event causing Gandalf to come down from Valinor to (Middle-) Earth-Bet. I would definately read that story just to see him make the setting better.
 
Imagine though if he could. He would be able to say with a straight face that he "has the power of God and Anime on his side!" and he would be 100% correct/truthful.

Imagine also this event causing Gandalf to come down from Valinor to (Middle-) Earth-Bet. I would definately read that story just to see him make the setting better.
He may very well have the Power of God on his side, he definitely has the power of anime, even without the call bead. I would def dig him getting in contact with Gandalf.
 
Also, small reminder that Joe gave the undersiders a watch with a forcefield. Good luck hurting an Undersider in the first place.
... Sundancer.
Or Ballistic shoots cars at them at bullet speeds.
Or we just go with (Trickster) swaping them into a truck, handcuff them to a chair, drive them back to base and try as many implements of destruction at once as you can. Alternatively, just try to physically remove the watch or give them to Noelle.

Is this a good idea to begin with? no, it is a terrible idea. How is maiming a favored customer supposed to be the start of a request for help?
Is it a plausible idea? Yes.
 
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