Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

Apeiron's mask was falling away with the change. Actually, all of his clothing was shifting with him. Even in its jury-rigged state it was holding its new form, growing with the man or slightly altering itself to account for his new shape. It created the impression that this was something that he was prepared for, something he expected to have to deal with. Everyone else might have been blindsided by this, but Apeiron, despite not seeming at all pleased about the situation, had contingencies in place.
I was rereading the chapter & this paragraph caught my eye.

If anyone else in this universe noticed this (and they will), then it'll reinforce the idea that Apeiron is a Case 53 that created his own cure. After all, why create clothing that'll shift to match an alternate form if you don't have an alternate form?

Looking at Apeiron on the screen he didn't look like he was falling back. The shot was zoomed in from ground level, making it a little shaky, but you could still see the rage on the man's face. And something else.

Every person in the group immediately tensed. They knew that look, that posture. The feeling that the tinker was suddenly somewhere else, dealing with something they couldn't see. Theories about what he was actually doing were all over the place. Power switching was a popular idea, as was the fabled 'strategy trance'. But those were just theories. Nobody had any actual insight to the situation.

Everyone agreed it was something serious. The fact that the man had unleashed a nuclear-level sword attack after one of those trances was proof enough. If there was ever a time where something like that would be helpful, it would be now.

But something was off. Usually there was this sense of contemplation, like the tinker was considering something. This time he was clearly annoyed by it, like some unwelcome intrusion had occurred. Then his expression changed, and it was clear he was well past the point of being annoyed. She couldn't call an expression like that anything short of murderous.

Also, the comment about Apeiron looking annoyed during his "strategy stance" might be interpreted as Apeiron realizing that he'd have to return to his Case 53 form in order to be capable of fighting Lung & being absolutely furious about the idea of having to do so (something that I think any Case 53 share after being cured).

----

Lastly, I wonder if Vicky (or anyone else) will realize that Apeiron is in contact with his "passenger". That his "Thinker" power is really his Powers communicating with him.
 
Now you've got me thinking his clones will go wild because they don't entirely have his hang ups. "He's out so he's not going to tell us not to do this and he knows he should have done it already so we're just going to make all the changes we want while we have the chance." Joe will be stuck with it because he can't downgrade.

The moment his shitty family gets a look at him he will be unrecognizable. Arguably, the best result.

Also, since he will be undergoing surgery does his aesthetic perks affect post-surgery looks ( He would look smoking hot) or is it just functional surgery (looks the same as before)?
 
The moment his shitty family gets a look at him he will be unrecognizable. Arguably, the best result.

Also, since he will be undergoing surgery does his aesthetic perks affect post-surgery looks ( He would look smoking hot) or is it just functional surgery (looks the same as before)?
Either way it'd kick in a certain amount. Remember that Tetra covered and was entwined with a great deal of Joe's body including Joe's face/eye. The nanites regrew his eye and healed his other injuries, but we know that that also resulted in Tetra getting entangled with/in a bunch of his vital organs. The duplicates will have to surgery his whole body including his face and the areas underneath/inside.

Edit:
Stylish Mechanic (Gurren Lagann) 100:
In addition to knowing how to repair and create mechanical devices you also have quite a knack at making anything you work on look good. Any time you fix something it'll end up clean and pleasant to look at, and you can easily come up with humorous or awe-inspiring designs for vehicles and devices.

"Anything you work on look good" and "any time you fix something."

WoG:
At best Joe's treatment would trigger his repair perks, but it wouldn't count as new construction for either workshop fiat protection or any or his other creation powers, not unless the duplicates need to make an entirely new body for him.
 
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I'm not quite sold on this one. He'd already had a dynamically reactive cape before displaying changer abilities so having that present in the rest of his costume as well is a no brainer.
Still, it'd be enough to spark debate over it especially since there are gonna be people who will see it that way either because they're in love with the idea or because they're Case53s/monstrous capes who will view things through biased lenses (Weld, Gully, GstringGirl).

What I love about the insanity of the stuff showcased and revealed from the Broadcast is the amount of speculation and how there'd be so many varying theories, camps, and perspectives. We all know how crazy the internet and fans can get.
 
Statistically, thats not a logical point at all, because the percentages are not independent. For each of them, the probability of focusing on Lung given that Joe focuses on Lung is either near or equal to 100%. Acting like they are in any way independent given the status of Joe as 'near death and actively fighting a giant monster' completely undermines the argument, especially since Joe acts as the vector for most of them. (Why is Tetra, the blind mildly-sentient alien attached to Joe, treated as an independent entity? Or his shard? What the hell?)
Well, statistically, if we limit the sample set to the Clones and the AI.

And you are right in that they are not independent, but I'd rate them as inversely correlated, actually. Given that lung is busy, up to an extra minute to check on the largest known threat is a reasonable time expenditure.

Given that Lung cannot actually meaningfully hurt Joe, especially early on in the fight, it actually disincentivises others from immediately attacking him, and incentivises efforts made to remove external threats, since that would pose the greatest risk to Joe, and by extension his ability to keep Lung in check.

Odds that the duplicates are close enough? 0%
Oddd that Joe would want to in his blind "attack biggest visible threat" rage? 0%
Odds that the AI have anything to actually get to March with, let alone the time to do so? 0%

There are only two plausible actors who could of taken March out; Aisha and Victoria, both of whom are children, so sub-10% odds of them doing it either.

Now kindly stop ranting on like imaginary numbers pulled from nowhere count as proof.

Joe having 0% is reasonable, the others are not.

The clones delivered the motoroid, without a pilot to the fight in order to delay for long enough to deploy the gundam. They can enter the workshop via any functional door, plenty of which would have available en-route to the fight with Lung. This means that there is a period of time in which the clones are perfectly capable of spending up to a minute or more to double-tap March

Furthermore, Fleet was explicitly given orders to take lethal shots at March.

Given that March has been shown to be the only member of the ABB capable of seriously damaging Joe, confirming/ensuring the kill both would not significantly alter the timeframe for the events depicted and would be a reasonable assumption for them, especially since the Motoroid would have had to pass over the docks where March was in order to enter the fight with Lung.

Again, I'm not saying that March not being double-tapped is impossible, and it's within SoD that an author can put his weight on the scales, but his logic is reasonable.

If you would like to reasonably suggest another reasonable train of logic that would suggest an alternate scenario that states that March has a greater than 10% chance of survival, I'd like to see it, but within the bounds of that scenario, I don't see it.

Still don't have an issue with her not being double tapped (even if I still have other issues with the scenario), but the fact that this level of author-derived probability manipulation is within SoD doesn't make it realistic, which is what you seem to be implying.
 
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The clones delivered the motoroid, without a pilot to the fight in order to delay for long enough to deploy the gundam. They can enter the workshop via any functional door, plenty of which would have available en-route to the fight with Lung. This means that there is a period of time in which the clones are perfectly capable of spending up to a minute or more to double-tap March
This entire paragraph I have problems with, which may or may not be due to me misremembering things, so here we go:
Joe was the only one on-site, because he used Tetra to get there faster. Even when his motoroid caught up to him, his clones were occupied elsewhere.
The motoroid that caught up to him got trashed, robbing the AIs of a body to act through, and Joe's outfit suffered likewise, so not even that could cure the AIs' blindness.

On the subject of doors to the workshop, with the exception of the giant mechs, they only lead back out where they're opened to, so I'm unsure how you're using that to justify the clones reaching March in time?
 
It doesn't matter that it's not actually tinker tech, it's made by a tinker, therefore everyone assumes it's tinker tech, and mass produced "tinker tech" is something that will draw Sphere's attention, as something that's mass produced will usually help people more than a powerful but singular device. It not actually being tinker tech will only make things worse, as that means it can actually be made by normal people, and directly improve the tech base of humanity. Even if the drones aren't that advanced, it's the implications that's the problem. Additionally, it isn't the quality that's the problem. There is simply a difference between a tinker making a nigh-invincible power armor and a tinker making a machine that pumps out drones. Aperion is known for quality, not quantity, and that makes him easier to deal with, as he can't flood the city with his creations. A single man can only be in so many places, an army can be in a lot more, making them much more difficult to contain.
Well the drone wont but the giant ass robot that looks like it can fight endbringers will also the FTL tech too
 
Also I'm still predicting Fleet and Survey going full Delamain, since what better way to discretely get sensors on the street than a fleet of taxis?
 
Hi everyone

Here's another fanart, My take on Apeiron's Motoroid
You can see a bit of influence from gundam and ironman. :)

This took me a long time to finish. Hope you guys and gals like it.
Oh my god! That's gorgeous! That fanart must have taken ages to finish. Its that good. Very beautiful. I don't really know what else to say. Great job!
 
This entire paragraph I have problems with, which may or may not be due to me misremembering things, so here we go:
Joe was the only one on-site, because he used Tetra to get there faster. Even when his motoroid caught up to him, his clones were occupied elsewhere.
The motoroid that caught up to him got trashed, robbing the AIs of a body to act through, and Joe's outfit suffered likewise, so not even that could cure the AIs' blindness.

On the subject of doors to the workshop, with the exception of the giant mechs, they only lead back out where they're opened to, so I'm unsure how you're using that to justify the clones reaching March in time?

nope, I read the relevant chapter when the new one dropped and the clonesent the motoroid into battle in order to delay Lung so that they could deploy the gundam, since the hangar takes a couple of minutes to deploy.

re the workshop, joe (or any of his clones) can access the workshop via a key that turns any door into a door into the workshop. Depending on how the motoroid got there, piloted or not, the clone could have entered the workshop from the docks.

Edit: Aisha being able to drag Joe back also helps this supposition since it means that The entrance to the workshop was relatively close by.
 
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Hi everyone

Here's another fanart, My take on Apeiron's Motoroid
You can see a bit of influence from gundam and ironman. :)

This took me a long time to finish. Hope you guys and gals like it.
I originally thought that the tire thrusters where turdines, and thought that this was based off of when Apeiron first fought Bakuda, then I noticed the burn effect behind them.

This is great as I now have a better image for how the motoriod looks.
 
It really did work better if I didn't do, say or even look at anything while she was hauling me. Apparently it took a lot of concentration, so it was really Fleet who was handling the 'flying' part of things. Regardless, she managed to get us to the back door of Garment's shop without being noticed, then helped me fumble with the workshop key in one of the back rooms of the studio.
Edit: Aisha being able to drag Joe back also helps this supposition since it means that The entrance to the workshop was relatively close by.

Garment's shop is not that nearby the dockyards. But then neither was the fight with Lung at that point, it was as far from Brockton as Apeiron could make it. Joe's clone was nowhere near where March was, and was focused on saving Apeiron's life and destroying Lung before he totaled Brockton Bay.

More importantly, we've been over all this. In the name of the Two Trees of Valinor. In the name of the ancient Fey princes. By all the Gods of Olympus. By the Aedra and the Daedra, by the God-Emperor of Man, and by Merlin, can we please let this go.

Thank you.
 
Yes but at that point wasn't Joe already battling Lung, and thus March was already making her immortality bid?

Nope, as per the last interlude with Victoria, March somehow dragged herself dozens of feet to the wreck of the motoroid despite injuries equivalent to a high-speed car-crash and only reached it after Joe was over the water with Lung, at which point the Gundam had been deployed. If I'm not forgetting anything, Victoria saw the Gundam enter the fight prior to going to search for Triumph - indeed, depending on how long it would take Victoria to find Triumph, this means that the Gundam was in the fight for at least several minutes at this point, and possibly upwards of ten minutes.

(honestly, the dragging herself dozens of feet is the thing I have a bigger issue with, but I've talked that to death, so I'll skip it.)

As such, not only should Fleet in the motoroid have passed over her when flying towards Lung, but she should have been visible to a clone if he was in docks or (and I figure this is possibly more relevant) when he was in the Gundam as he's flying into the scene.

In fact, going by this impression, she should have been visibly moving towards the wreck of the first motoroid during this, making her a priority target if anyone detected her.

So, her surviving basically hinges on neither Fleet in the motoroid nor the Clone (either outside the motoroid or in the Gundam later) taking so much as a moment to scan the area March was launched into before engaging against Lung. Something that should not have seriously impacted any sort of response.

What makes this even more damning, is the fact that March's location should have been visible from the sky, considering I saw no mention of any sort of roofing or cover in the scene with Victoria.

As such, either latecomer to the fight should have been able to see March moving (if slowly) towards the motoroid, which should immediately raise her to a top priority.

Garment's shop is not that nearby the dockyards. But then neither was the fight with Lung at that point, it was as far from Brockton as Apeiron could make it. Joe's clone was nowhere near where March was, and was focused on saving Apeiron's life and destroying Lung before he totaled Brockton Bay.

More importantly, we've been over all this. In the name of the Two Trees of Valinor. In the name of the ancient Fey princes. By all the Gods of Olympus. By the Aedra and the Daedra, by the God-Emperor of Man, and by Merlin, can we please let this go.

Thank you.
As I mentioned multiple times in that reply tree, I am not arguing against the lack of double-tap. I was primarily talking about someone who was disregarding a legitimately logical point and I decided that I should at least provide a minor degree of support to someone who was trying to be logical about this, something that I'm generally in favour of.

So, just to reiterate. the fact that march did not get doubletapped is not my issue. It's technically within SoD, but only so far as saying 'this is a work of fiction, I won't begrudge the author forcing fate'. More than a surface-level reading of this section would immediately show the hand of the author in the story forcing things.

As I've mentioned before I have other gripes that I feel are more pressing, but I don't expect Lord Roustabout to change the story to address them, only read my feedback, and hopefully not write another unsatisfying 'climax'. Or, at least another 'climax' that is unsatisfying for me, and the remainder of the obviously vocal group of people who saw this as a weak point of the story.

RE Joe's workshop position: Joe was evacuated by Aisha, and done so relatively quickly, to some extent this can be attributed to Aisha's hardsuit, but it can also reflect one of Joe's clones opening an entrance to Joe's workshop near the docks. If Aisha was in the workshop when the entrance was moved, or was otherwise informed of the moved entrance, it would have made the medical evacuation much faster and smoother. I'm not saying it happened, but it does open up an additional possibility.
 
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It was somewhat possible for Aperion to do the thing I wanted therefore it must happen.
Wow
Not my point, and you would see that if you actually read the post you seem to find funny.

I was reacting to the people responding to the original post talking about probabilities telling the author of that post that his probabilities were completely inaccurate, and thus his legitimately logical point was completely flawed.

I am thus attempting to explain that the original point is valid, not that I support it happening. The person was making a logical point, and the claim that the people responding to it are making in that his actual logic was wrong is in itself wrong (original logic = viable, response to logic = mistaken).

As I stated in the post that you haven't seem to have read, I do not fault Lord Roustabout for not having Joe double-tap her. Sure, given any consideration, the hand of the author becomes visible, but it's within the bounds of SoD for surface-level reading.

I have stated that I have other issues, but I do not expect @LordRoustabout to change the story as it exists to address them, merely read and consider the response to his work, and learn what sort of reactions certain decisions he will make in the future will have so that when he next writes a story, he is aware of the reaction it will engender among his readers. I hope that means that, in the future, we won't get another 'climax' that is as viscerally unsatisfying as the one we just had, but I like the story enough that this one instance won't put me off the story entirely. That said, if this repeats itself and it feels as though LR won't give Joe his hard-earned wins, I will become too frustrated with the story to enjoy it and I don't want to drop what feels like an otherwise good story.
 
The CF thread this week despite our best efforts.

Please move along people. I left for six hours and came back to more of the same. Roustabout has already adressed this several times. Get over yourselves.
 
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