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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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Kaine198 said:
Hey when the Butcher eventually comes to BB and Joe probably wins via ripping out their soul do you think it'll be 14 individual souls or some kind of weird amalgam?
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Jiggy000 said:
From what I understand Butchers power is more shard based shenanigans rather than some sort of soul manipulation. So maybe only the soul of the person's body the Butchers shard is currently connected to?
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Kaine198 said:
But wasn't there a WOG that the "That Undefinable Thing" from Tales of Symphonia would hard counter the Butcher? And something about all forms of souls being present in universe?
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So WoG post gives info on this:
"That's also where the shard-shadow soul thing comes from. The copies of hosts that shards retain aren't like souls from any other setting, but they count as souls for the purpose of any other setting, and anyone who can manipulate them (Butcher, Glaistig Uaine) and also manipulate souls as defined by any other setting."

This is would mean that the voices/shadows/copies in the Shard of the Butcher are the souls of the past hosts.
 
RegiDelta said:
What do you mean by that do you want Apeiron to ram a Gundam at FTL at leviathan or do you want leviathan to ram at light speed at Apeiron. Personal I want Apeiron to somehow transport leviathan to his workshop to fight him on a volcano. I want the fight to be more epic so it needs to be on a volcano 🌋🌋🌋.
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AntaeusTheGiant said:
Of course, the very moment he gets the Cybertronian forge, I think one of his projects should be installing some into the workshop and creating an AI for it, (clip) and Workshop can join Fleet, Tetra, Garment, and Survey as parts of Joes team. (clip)

Edit: It would probably violate the various fiats governing the Workshop, but I can still dream. Workshop transforming a la Metroplex, and deploying itself into battle with an effect like the Gundam bay so it can fight alongside Apeiron. Oh Look! Its a Mobile Volcano Lair Robot! At least no one will have seen one of those before.
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The only thing more epic than fighting Leviathon on a volcano is to bring a volcano to fight it.
 
Kaine198 said:
Thought Lord said something about all soul powers affecting all versions of souls, and the Butcher's and Glastig's powers counting as some weird shadow soul. So if true, I'm totally ready for soul ripping and making some key crests.
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It's more that, under the magic equivalency rules, the consciousnesses copied by Shards count as a type of soul valid for use within magic systems (or fields of science) that interact with souls. It would still be wrong to think of the Butcher's minds as souls in the same way any other setting defines souls, but they remain valid souls the same way unrelated phenomena all called "psychic powers" all get enhanced by that FEAR perk.
 
TitanFrost said:
It's more that, under the magic equivalency rules, the consciousnesses copied by Shards count as a type of soul valid for use within magic systems (or fields of science) that interact with souls. It would still be wrong to think of the Butcher's minds as souls in the same way any other setting defines souls, but they remain valid souls the same way unrelated phenomena all called "psychic powers" all get enhanced by that FEAR perk.
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Well if they aren't technically real souls but still count for soul perks I see this as a guilt free way to key crests.
 
AntaeusTheGiant said:
The only thing more epic than fighting Leviathon on a volcano is to bring a volcano to fight it.
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So you want a Giant volcano robot to attack leviathan I can see that working somehow .... Maybe???
Anyway is it a good idea to fight behemoth with a volcano 🌋🌋🌋 how does behemoths power effect a volcano 🌋🌋🌋?
 
AntaeusTheGiant said:
Well, there is an important sword that is made of a falling star. Good luck getting your hands on that..Maybe he could convince the Daynes he could improve it a bunch, and by doing so with his perks he would of course have some left over. Lol.
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Really? Huh... that'll be really hard for him to get his hands on, from the looks of it. Hmm... perhaps he'll just have to invent space travel the old fashioned way before he can get call beads. Or... those wouldn't be meteorites, would they? Semantic difference, but possibly an important one.

However, here's a question for you. How would Joe function in a setting like a cultivation world, or xianxia, or Eragon? What do you think?
 
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Functionality said:
Out of spite, Leviathan has decided to start using FTL water strikes as his sole method of attack
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Image said:
Underwater he can move faster than light.
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No he can't, Leviathan can't reach light speed, I already posted once a WoG that Endbringers have limits and needs to work around said limitation, and their sandbagging not in the sense of more power but in the sense of the tactics and techniques they can perform, they also have Manton limits. At most Leviathan can launch water bullets that break the sound barrier or go supersonic speeds, do you also want to know why I know this, it's Canon that Zion was way faster than leviathan, the only two that can move at light speeds is legend and Zion, and Zion killed Leviathan within seconds.
 
Kaine198 said:
Well if they aren't technically real souls but still count for soul perks I see this as a guilt free way to key crests.
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"Nah, don't worry, it's fine to use this sapient mind as a fuel resource. It's not connected to the astral plain like a real soul is."

"No silly, that's not what a real soul is. A real soul is a fraction of god's fragmented being."

"No silly, that's not what a real soul is. A real soul is a mystical construct composed of spiritrons which degrades over time just like the body."

"No silly, that's not what a real soul is. A real soul is a psychic mental imprint that persists within the warp after death."

"No silly, that's not what a real soul is. A real soul is a mana-producing organ that has nothing to do with self or identity."

"No silly..."

The problem becomes rather immediately apparent, I hope. When the definition of a soul is so arbitrary, vaguely split between all these potential definitions under forge metaphysics, it matters less whether or not you are baking a soul into a power source and more whether or not you are baking a person into a power source. And I would definitely say the Butcher's minds are people.
 
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RegiDelta said:
I agree with this sentiment. do you think Apeiron would clone body's to put the souls into or make machine body's instead or maybe an amalgamation of both just to save them.
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We already have WoG that Joe wouldn't even cure Bakuda's cancer, so under the likely awful circumstances Joe would meet the Butcher I imagine he might just not be interested in spending time curing them.

Of course, nobodies going to complain, "why is Apeiron curing homicidal ghost possession for a villain and not the rest of us?!" like they might complain about Joe not curing civilian cancer if he were to cure Bakuda. So assuming he has the Butcher restrained he may very well decide to split them back into separate bodies just as a humane measure. It might even separate all their powers again, which would be a very big practical motivation.
 
But is it a "real" soul? Isn't it just a shade of the person it was before? Like a remnant of some greater whole that already moved on? Also aren't most of the Butchers horrible villans? Why would Joe make them probably super advanced bodies?

I mean I think Butcher 3 was a hero so maybe them.

Or perhaps the shadow souls are simply the shards emulation of who the person was before.
 
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Regarding crossover, what if Joe find out a way into the multiverse? And discover so many Alt-Power!Taylor.

Joe: Is this what my passenger meant about Taylor?

CF: [Well Yes , but actually no]

cue final battle with Zion , and all these Taylor popped out ala Endgame.
 
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TitanFrost said:
We already have WoG that Joe wouldn't even cure Bakuda's cancer, so under the likely awful circumstances Joe would meet the Butcher I imagine he might just not be interested in spending time curing them.

Of course, nobodies going to complain, "why is Apeiron curing homicidal ghost possession for a villain and not the rest of us?!" like they might complain about Joe not curing civilian cancer if he were to cure Bakuda. So assuming he has the Butcher restrained he may very well decide to split them back into separate bodies just as a humane measure. It might even separate all their powers again, which would be a very big practical motivation.
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It would depend on who the current Butcher is. It's a new host that doesn't want to go crazy. Might be a hero.
 
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Kaine198 said:
Wait is the Butcher in this universe not just canon Butcher 14?
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I didn't know who the current one was, just knew the new host transition was recent. It's 14, Quarrel, so villain.

Dragon Interlude:
The Tiamat unit had taken damage in the encounter, Butcher XIV's accuracy allowing her to guide the rounds of a .50 caliber machine gun into any area with imperfect armor coverage. Joints, sensors, and weapon mounts were all heavily damaged. It had affected the aeronautical profile of the suit and stretched its travel time in returning to her base.
 
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JoeStratnoff said:
Regarding crossover, what if Joe find out a way into the multiverse? And discover so many Alt-Power!Taylor.

Joe: Is this what my passenger meant about Taylor?

CF: [Well Yes , but actually no]

cue final battle with Zion , and all these Taylor popped out ala Endgame.
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MahouShojo!Taylor: What has got you down?
Stage magician!Taylor: I just feel left out. Like why am I even here, I do stage magic!
MahouShojo!Taylor: I understand how you feel.

Stage Magician!Taylor: How can you, Miss Winner, understand this?

MahouShojo!Taylor points off into the distance.

Entity!Taylor: What?
 
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@LordRoustabout would you say that these recent events, confronting his own mortality, and now his surgery will make Joe reconsider his stance regarding wet-tinkering (on himself) for the better?

Not saying he should go full Astartes right of the bat, but a secondary organ ready to pump healing potion on demand, enhanced perception or being able to go into bullet time would have helped on the last fight.
 
Zedred said:
@LordRoustabout would you say that these recent events, confronting his own mortality, and now his surgery will make Joe reconsider his stance regarding wet-tinkering (on himself) for the better?

Not saying he should go full Astartes right of the bat, but a secondary organ ready to pump healing potion on demand, enhanced perception or being able to go into bullet time would have helped on the last fight.
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It may also be worth considering that waking up with a body radically altered by clone directed surgery could potentially put Joe off wet-tinkering even more. It could be pretty creepy waking up with a second heart or whatever, especially for someone with Joe's fears.
 
so now theres some down time, will joe try and make his diamond throne with faerie perfection? It'd definitely help with the dragon situation
 
TitanFrost said:
"Nah, don't worry, it's fine to use this sapient mind as a fuel resource. It's not connected to the astral plain like a real soul is."

"No silly, that's not what a real soul is. A real soul is a fraction of god's fragmented being."

"No silly, that's not what a real soul is. A real soul is a mystical construct composed of spiritrons which degrades over time just like the body."

"No silly, that's not what a real soul is. A real soul is a psychic mental imprint that persists within the warp after death."

"No silly, that's not what a real soul is. A real soul is a mana-producing organ that has nothing to do with self or identity."

"No silly..."

The problem becomes rather immediately apparent, I hope. When the definition of a soul is so arbitrary, vaguely split between all these potential definitions under forge metaphysics, it matters less whether or not you are baking a soul into a power source and more whether or not you are baking a person into a power source. And I would definitely say the Butcher's minds are people.
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Well, it is called that Undefinable thing.
 
Now you've got me thinking his clones will go wild because they don't entirely have his hang ups. "He's out so he's not going to tell us not to do this and he knows he should have done it already so we're just going to make all the changes we want while we have the chance." Joe will be stuck with it because he can't downgrade.
 
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