Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

Please move along people. I left for six hours and came back to more of the same. Lord has already adressed this several times. Get over yourselves.
Please read the damn post.

I'll admit to being a bit of a wall, but you come across as one yourself (or possibly blind) since you don't seem to differentiate between someone attempting to clarify a point and answer a question and someone asking LR to change something about the story.

I understand that you might be fatigued about people complaining about the story (frankly, I am a bit too, which I why I stopped after putting in my post) but the post you are referring to, and much of the chain prior is simply clarifying why a position is valid, even if I don't agree with it.
 
Jesus christ, the author's already addressed how/why the plot development around March happened in the way that it did, and no new points are being brought up. Just rehashing and rewording the same arguments from before LordR replied. At this point, I'm just hoping that rather than dropping the fic, the author continues to post somewhere else.
 
Well let's see a new topic.

PRT is probably going to think Apeiron is a power Tinker because of video and Vickys testimony. But what exactly they are going to think of that hellish landscape was for something. I mean either they dismisses it as a hallucination or they believe what she says to Miss Milita.
How the future will be depends heavily on what Victoria says. If she says that her power changed, then isn't Apeiron a lying liar because of his assessment of GloryGirls aura. If she says she felt her power and her family's power in there then it might flag some kind of power space. If she talks about shifted perspective beyond the physical universe then they will start wonder about what perspective it changed to. If says that powers are alive then it opens another can of worms. A different can opens if she talks about Triumph and how she saw him there.
 
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Jesus christ, the author's already addressed how/why the plot development around March happened in the way that it did, and no new points are being brought up. Just rehashing and rewording the same arguments from before LordR replied. At this point, I'm just hoping that rather than dropping the fic, the author continues to post somewhere else.
You could try reading it on Archive of Our Own, where these types of comments are definitely the minority. Lord Roustabout also tends to respond to most of the comments there.
 
Way I see it, it is all talking to brick walls and yelling into the void, 'cause this has been going on long enough that everyone's whose mind could be changed has already been changed, and they have dug into their positions as is, which ever side they ended up on.

Lord has said his piece, the words are written, the course is set, and there is no prize to win for continuing the argument besides, for the bystanders or the combatants. Despite this, I fully expect both sides to keep shouting the same points at each other to no avail right up till the next chapter is posted, after which it will be promptly forgotten.
At least until someone's salt levels overflow and they bring it back up for the diehard grudge-bearers of both sides to worry over the bones of once more. Frankly at this point it's going to take active Mod enforcement to get people to drop it for good.

Tl:dr The quibbling and bickering will continue, and it will be fruitless. Accept it. Ignore it. Hopefully get over it.
 
Well let's see a new topic.

PRT is probably going to think Apeiron is a power Tinker because of video and Vickys testimony. But what exactly they are going to think of that hellish landscape was for something. I mean either they dismisses it as a hallucination or they believe what she says to Miss Milita.
How the future will be depends heavily on what Victoria says. If she says that her power changed, then isn't Apeiron a lying liar because of his assessment of GloryGirls aura. If she says she felt her power and her family's power in there then it might flag some kind of power space. If she talks about shifted perspective beyond the physical universe then they will start wonder about what perspective it changed to. If says that powers are alive then it opens another can of worms. A different can opens if she talks about Triumph and how she saw him there.
Word of God on a comment in chapter 51 from lord is that the PRT will be leaning towards a power Tinker, but will not make it official yet, they are more likely to believe that Vicky was particularly hallucinating the event due to capes who can effect powers having similar effects.

They will also try to classify it as much as they can.
 
Personally, I'm wondering how far the "group of tinkers" theory is going to go. Sure, Dragon encountered one of his clones, but she doesn't know that. From her perspective, it could just as easily have been a robot running prerecorded lines, a different parahuman piloting it from afar with a voice modulator/changer, or even an AI. Other than that one instance, everyone else seems to wholly believe that the motoroid-clones are just robots.

And Apeiron has pulled off massive, incredible, unbelievable acts of Tinkering before. And, as Vicky's pov seems to indicate, everyone thinks that Apeiron planned contingencies for the Case53/Beast Form. So that's another talley in the "incredible planner" box. So I'm torn between the idea that people will refute the Group Tinker Theory based on what we've seen Apeiron do, or if people will try to minimize Aperion's "legend" by claiming that he's working with a group.
 


Hi everyone

Here's another fanart, My take on Apeiron's Motoroid
You can see a bit of influence from gundam and ironman. :)

This took me a long time to finish. Hope you guys and gals like it.
I love it, it will replace your previous as the new cover in my copy in FanFicFare.

The 80's child in me still desperately wants a Cyclone from Robotech so it hits the spot.
re the workshop, joe (or any of his clones) can access the workshop via a key
Do the clones have access? Maybe this has been adressed already, I'm a relatively new reader. I thought the key was unique. Are the clones born holding their own copy?
 
I love it, it will replace your previous as the new cover in my copy in FanFicFare.

The 80's child in me still desperately wants a Cyclone from Robotech so it hits the spot.

Do the clones have access? Maybe this has been adressed already, I'm a relatively new reader. I thought the key was unique. Are the clones born holding their own copy?
They got the Gundam out.
 
All these horses beaten into glue and all I want is a PHO segment of someone yelling "It's a Gundam, It's a Gundam, IT'S A GUNDAM!!!" Like in the series.
 
Word of God on a comment in chapter 51 from lord is that the PRT will be leaning towards a power Tinker, but will not make it official yet, they are more likely to believe that Vicky was particularly hallucinating the event due to capes who can effect powers having similar effects.

They will also try to classify it as much as they can.
Yes. I read it on their Discord server. It was actually the place where I began to wonder about these questions.
Okay. Now I've reread through every WOG regarding latest chapter. Where did you read that PRT would believe Vicky to be hallucinating due to previous power affecting capes? Unless you mean Cauldron and therefore PRT?
On Cauldron's thoughts on the Shardspace portal:
Cauldron isn't likely to jump to 'portal to shardspace' since that is something that is really hard to pull off. More likely that there is something that messes with Corona Pollentias, which is dangerous enough on its own. Joe isn't the first person to have an effect that mucks with that kind of thing, so they will approach it from the perspective of their past experience. Unfortunately that past experience includes people like Pastor, Ingenue, and the rumor about what happened in Flint. As I said above, Cauldron has an agent in Brockton Bay who has made reports on Apeiron's situation, so they aren't likely to fully step in until Coil proves he can't handle things.

What if PRT thinks Apeiron is so in sync with his Passanger so he doesn't react to his own technology. As he's so gone that he can ignore it. It has several problems but might be one of many theories.

Personally, I'm wondering how far the "group of tinkers" theory is going to go. Sure, Dragon encountered one of his clones, but she doesn't know that. From her perspective, it could just as easily have been a robot running prerecorded lines, a different parahuman piloting it from afar with a voice modulator/changer, or even an AI. Other than that one instance, everyone else seems to wholly believe that the motoroid-clones are just robots.

And Apeiron has pulled off massive, incredible, unbelievable acts of Tinkering before. And, as Vicky's pov seems to indicate, everyone thinks that Apeiron planned contingencies for the Case53/Beast Form. So that's another talley in the "incredible planner" box. So I'm torn between the idea that people will refute the Group Tinker Theory based on what we've seen Apeiron do, or if people will try to minimize Aperion's "legend" by claiming that he's working with a group.
Just as was Vicky's pov viewed was lots of the recent theories of him was not made to "explain the situation" but to "have a peace of mind for the person who came up with them."
I think in this case its far more likely to have a group of parahumans than an unprecedented tinker who could outstrip entire groups in the city. PRT might think Apeiron's organization has capes like Null (powersharer) and Two (powerbooster) from Yangban. Who knows maybe Apeiron isn't the planner but someone else on that team is. That's why his conversation with Weld was sincerly felt and his debut was masterfully planned. Its likely that if that group theory become standard practice then only something incredible out of context can shake it.
 
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Yes. I read it on their Discord server. It was actually the place where I began to wonder about these questions.
Okay. Now I've reread through every WOG regarding latest chapter. Where did you read that PRT would believe Vicky to be hallucinating due to previous power affecting capes? Unless you mean Cauldron and therefore PRT?
On Cauldron's thoughts on the Shardspace portal:
That is what I meant, cauldron is in control of the PRT, that said if they don't interfere with the analysis process of the Think Tank it may still go with Apeiron opening portals to Shard space, if they can get thier ducks in a row and start to work together and have thier thinker powers start working properly agian.
 
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Just gonna say that more words does not a better story make. Usually this story uses a lot of words but manages to make it sort of work. The Interlude is bloated to the extreme, I read it carefully first, and then a second time where I skipped large parts of it and nothing was lost.
 
I have to ask if this is a jumpchain fic.

As far as we know, no. It only have "jumpchain" in the title because it use jumpchain logic (the whole "buy power with CP" bit), but no jumping is planned.

It is possible Joe's shard is a jumper (fun fact: you can play a shard in the Worm jumpdoc) or a benefactor. Lord refused to answer about that, only saying something like "it isn't relevant to the story, but might come up later".
 
That is what I meant, cauldron is in control of the PRT, that said if they don't interfere with the analysis process of the Think Tank it may still go with Apeiron opening portals to Shard space, if they can get thier ducks in a row and start to work together and have thier thinker powers start working properly agian.
Maybe. I'm not sure if they can steer it when its an international news. Too many eyes on it. Then again PtV would find a way if they deem it important enough.
However I don't think they would mess with the Thinktank since its also important for them to understand the phenomenon. There's also the unknown if thinkers can work on the Shardspace. I haven't read Ward so I don't know.

There's also the fact that Miss Milita explained what she was during her trigger event so it must come on a official transcript. If more noctis capes were to pitch in then they would definitely start to see a pattern.
"Glory Girl seeing something similar to noctis capes during their trigger event but from two perspectives."
I'm not sure if Pastor and Ingenue made their victims hallucinate. Not to mention as it was clearly the bike's power source, a medium, that exploded.

Ingenue side effects from wiki
This has the unfortunate side effect of driving her "partners" homicidally insane after prolonged periods of use.[6] These thralls are noticeably off-kilter to those who know them.[7]

Pastor power explanation from wiki
Power granting, either significantly more powerful than Teacher's or ability to manually activate Corona Pollentias in people.[1]
Pastor is known as a common thinker blindspot.[3]
Not much are known about them. If they were to start drawing reports from other power affecting capes like these then it would start look real bad for Joe. If the PRT think that he has some master influence over those he had healed then Joe might actually explode.
 
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Personally, I'm wondering how far the "group of tinkers" theory is going to go. Sure, Dragon encountered one of his clones, but she doesn't know that. From her perspective, it could just as easily have been a robot running prerecorded lines, a different parahuman piloting it from afar with a voice modulator/changer, or even an AI. Other than that one instance, everyone else seems to wholly believe that the motoroid-clones are just robots.

What make the most sense for a guy that can't recognize she's an AI : that he have an AI, or that he have human help ?

Then again PtV would find a way if they deem it important enough

PtV cannot update when he is in his workshop (remember, anti precog curtain). PtV also have to rebuild each time he gain a new power, which is about 8 time per day.

PtV is obviously an extremely unstable tool against Apeiron.

(And once Apeiron roll Miniaturisation / Efficiency, he get Outside Context Problem and PtV stop working entirely)
 
Do the clones have access? Maybe this has been adressed already, I'm a relatively new reader. I thought the key was unique. Are the clones born holding their own copy?
They got the Gundam out.
They called the Gundam. They didn't need the key.

"The mobile suits were capable of being deployed directly from the warehouse with a few minutes deployment time. The question of how that worked was one of those aspects of the Forge where no answer was available. It just did. At a signal from me, or from my duplicates, a suit would take a minute to prep its launch, then a few minutes to arrive at its destination. The route it took, the mechanism of moving from a sealed workshop to the real world, or where exactly it entered the outside universe was something the Forge wasn't concerned about. The suits could be deployed if called, and my duplicate had made the call."
 
Yes. I read it on their Discord server. It was actually the place where I began to wonder about these questions.
Okay. Now I've reread through every WOG regarding latest chapter. Where did you read that PRT would believe Vicky to be hallucinating due to previous power affecting capes? Unless you mean Cauldron and therefore PRT?
On Cauldron's thoughts on the Shardspace portal:


What if PRT thinks Apeiron is so in sync with his Passanger so he doesn't react to his own technology. As he's so gone that he can ignore it. It has several problems but might be one of many theories.


Just as was Vicky's pov viewed was lots of the recent theories of him was not made to "explain the situation" but to "have a peace of mind for the person who came up with them."
I think in this case its far more likely to have a group of parahumans than an unprecedented tinker who could outstrip entire groups in the city. PRT might think Apeiron's organization has capes like Null (powersharer) and Two (powerbooster) from Yangban. Who knows maybe Apeiron isn't the planner but someone else on that team is. That's why his conversation with Weld was sincerly felt and his debut was masterfully planned. Its likely that if that group theory become standard practice then only something incredible out of context can shake it.

Out of context, or something that can somehow convince them it's true. Perhaps Joe signing a contract to only tell the truth to the PRT? Or since Parahuman lite detection from Panacea or someone with lie detecting capabilities?

Though, admittedly, they might just assume he's somehow beating whatever lie detector they have... hmm... I wonder what it would take to convince them? I strongly doubt that just explaining the forge and everything about it would be enough, especially not at this point.
 
Jesus christ, the author's already addressed how/why the plot development around March happened in the way that it did, and no new points are being brought up. Just rehashing and rewording the same arguments from before LordR replied. At this point, I'm just hoping that rather than dropping the fic, the author continues to post somewhere else.
Lord is posting this in other places, you know.

If you'd like a more positive spin on things, just think of this thread as the necessary heat sink to absorb all these radioactive nerd arguments so they don't spill out anywhere else.
I mean either they dismisses it as a hallucination or they believe what she says to Miss Milita.
How the future will be depends heavily on what Victoria says.
Don't forget that Triumph was repeatedly blasted with his own hellish visions. Vicky isn't the sole source of information they have from this incident.
If she says that her power changed, then isn't Apeiron a lying liar because of his assessment of GloryGirls aura.
Don't really understand how this tracks. Apeiron wouldn't have been lying about how Victoria's power used to work If it changed now, and I don't think the emotional aspects of it have changed besides.
 
ptV cannot update when he is in his workshop (remember, anti precog curtain). PtV also have to rebuild each time he gain a new power, which is about 8 time per day.

PtV is obviously an extremely unstable tool against Apeiron.

(And once Apeiron roll Miniaturisation / Efficiency, he get Outside Context Problem and PtV stop working entirely)
I meant against Thinktank to get which result they would like.

Don't really understand how this tracks. Apeiron wouldn't have been lying about how Victoria's power used to work If it changed now, and I don't think the emotional aspects of it have changed besides.
I used a not word wrong okay? Its a big difference between was on right track and willfully lead PRT on a false case.
I mean if Vicky doesnt mention her changed aura then might PRT get wrong data.
 
I used a not word wrong okay? Its a big difference between was on right track and willfully lead PRT on a false case.
I mean if Vicky doesnt mention her changed aura then might PRT get wrong data.
Oh, so you're saying that if Vicky doesn't mention the change than PRT investigation might conclude that Joe's initial assessment of her was wrong?

I guess that is a possibility, but it is only the forcefield part of her power that seems like it might have changed. Joe talked about her Aura, and I don't think that's different. Unless I missed a WoG or something.
 
Triumph was most likely in a coma after the beating he took from Lung
He definitely tried to talk to Victoria when she showed up, and even noticed March going for the Motoroid before she did. I'd say he was mostly aware of the situation, even if at times that awareness was of nothing more than pain and eldritch alien hell.

—————

I've been thinking about what tinkers might be theorized to exist as a part of the Apeiron Group Theory. So far this is what I've got:

1. The Artist: Specializes in aesthetics and beauty. Their abilities may extend to aesthetic thinker powers which assist in their self-presentation, or they may have directly modified the face of their group ("Apeiron") to posses a supernatural grace of movement and posture. Their work is widely noted to more beautiful than conventionally possible, perhaps indicating a direct ability to generate certain feelings in those who see it. This may further be linked to Apeiron's capacity to generate persistent memetic effects in tandem with certain actions.
Possible Identity: Apeiron, Garment.

2. The Geek: Specializes in Powersuits and Robotics, with an apparent affinity for megaprojects given the sudden appearance of their latest work. Their work has been noted to imitate popular fictional properties such as Transformers and Gundam, but it is unknown whether this is an inherent aspect of their power or a matter of personal preference. They seem to have deployed and piloted their own personal work alongside Apeiron during the ABB Incident, making it unlikely that they are the face of the group.
Possible Indentity: Leet (unlikely) or an unknown related trigger.

3. The Doctor: Specializes in Regenerative Healing and Bio-Augmentation. Their work appears to revolve around quickly healing injuries and allowing the body to sustain itself while under the strain of incredible bio-enhancements. Apeiron's changer-state may be linked to their capacity for biological modification, or inversely Apeiron's human form may be the result of their ability to suppress his C53 physiology. Their abilities in collaboration with others may extend to granting technology regenerative capabilities, as seen when the Gundam repaired itself over time while fighting lung, taking on a vaguely biological appearance at points of major damage. May serve as the face of the group if other members are unwilling to be modified, but this remains pure speculation.
Possible Identity: Apeiron

The Insider: Specializes in Parahuman Power Expression. While this theory is often used as a way to ascribe all of Apeiron's abilities to a single tinker, it is possible that a power tinker is working in tandem with a group as a means of making up for some deficiency on their part; an as of yet unknown trade off for having such a powerful ability. Perhaps their ability to tinker alone is feeble, requiring a willing parahuman to modify or scan in order to accomplish anything rather than simply taking inspiration from power scans, and their collaboration with others allows them a direct framework or foundation to express their abilities. The remarkable stability of Apeiron's work may be due to a direct modification of parahuman power, bypassing the usual maintenance limits of tinkertech. Exotic abilities without an apparent technological source may be attributed to further power-based modifications on this Tinker's part. It has even been proposed that Apeiron's claimed thinker power may be this tinker's increased affinity for understanding the relations between parahuman power and psychology.
Possible Identity: Apeiron

—————

As long as I've got a big post going here I may as well put in another line break and bring this up: Lord mentioned on AO3 that people will likely attempt to edit Apeiron's memetic attack name freeze frames into continuous loop videos in an effort to prolong the time dilation effect.

I'll admit I expected Alchemy to be how Apeiron would get the rest of the population into mad science, but clearly I wasn't thinking outside the box enough. This is gonna be great.
 
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A faint blue glow started to form around the shiny speck. Then it was gone. A white line extended from where it had sat, to where Lung had sat. Past tense. The bloom of white, the parted atmosphere, and the streaks extending past the horizon left little doubt about the gang leader's status. The fact that that parting atmosphere was bowing down, extending in a pressure wave that only looked slow because of the distance, was even more confirmation. And concern.
So, does the Calling Card effect only work on video? Because if anything warranted it's use, this did, yet GG watching it live saw nothing unusual. Well, okay, Lung dying was unusual, but you know what I mean. Since Calling Card acts outside of time, it would be the only way to see this in detail since it happened FTL. Can't wait to hear how it was labeled by the effect....
 
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