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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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yellingbrian2 said:
I know I'm just reiterating everyone else's point. But I wanted to bring up some facts about this story, regarding the over use of the ABB:

Here is a list of every fight Apareon has been in:
  1. Apareon vs Uber (Saving the Undersiders while distracting Bakuda with drones)
  2. Apareon & Undersiders vs Bakuda (cutting off her leg and forcing her retreat)
  3. Apareon vs Uber & Leet (Saving Imp and attacking ABB command center)
  4. Apareon vs Lung (The Joke fight)
  5. Apareon Clone vs Oni Lee (while attacking command ABB commend center)
  6. Apareon vs March (Hacking ABB's accounts)
  7. Apareon vs Dragon (Hacking War)
  8. Apareon vs ABB's conscripted Army & Gang Members
  9. Apareon vs March & Bakuda (Attempting to find and break into their headquarters)
  10. Apareon vs March & Oni Lee (The fight he lost)
  11. Apareon & Dragon vs Lung (This last battle)
Here is a list of every non-Apareon fight in this novel:
  1. Undersiders vs Wards
  2. ABB's Gang Members vs Garmet
  3. March vs Wards (attempted to get to Flechette at the art museum)
  4. Uber, Bakuda, and Oni Lee vs Protectorate (when they copied Armsmaster's tech)
  5. Imp vs ABB's head quarters
  6. Uber & Leet vs Garden People
I've gone through and underlined every fight that is NOT an ABB fight...
I may have missed an off screen Protectorate vs Empire/Merchants background fight, but we've only had 2 on screen fights that weren't ABB...
We're 708,352 words in and we've been stuck on the same 4 enemies for the MAJORITY of this novel.
Apareon's 4 enemies are: March, Bakuda, Leet, and Oni Lee. All 4 are now 'injured' but all 4 are still alive and active.

I do NOT believe the story is done with them. I believe they were intentionally left alive so they could be a part of another combination fight vs Apareon.
I would be fine with this if there was a logical reason March and Oni Lee were still alive, Apareon specifically made tech that would kill Oni Lee on sight and he HAD March DOWN ON THE GROUND DEFENSELESS, and didn't DO anything about it!

Recommendation: It you're thinking about editing this chapter, please give a reasonable explanation of why nether Joe, Joe's clone, or Fleet was able to Capture/Kill March. Give March an emergency Teleporter that she used to escape, have Oni Lee pick her up at the last minute, have Joe get hit with a "Forget Me" Bomb, ext...

I'm not going to do anything like drop the novel over a "Plot Hole" like this. I love the characters and technology and I look forward to seeing how the plot advances.
There still are a lot of conflicts for Joe to resolve:
  1. The city is arming itself to the teeth.
  2. S-Class threats like the S9, Endbringers, Nillbog, Ext
  3. The Travelers and Undersider's situation
  4. The Case-53s situation
  5. Interacting with Accord
  6. Finishing Sphere's work:
    1. Building self-recursive Tinker Tech hospitals
    2. City building
    3. Space Exploration
    4. Providing Powers to regular people
  7. Scion
  8. The Shard Network after Scion is defeated
  9. All the potentially horrible things that could escape from Joe's Workshop
  10. All the potentially horrible things Thinkers and Tinkers could recreate from Joe's Tech and Magic
  11. The PTR's response to Apareon's wet ware and AI's
  12. Joe's family life. Joe starting a real relationship of his own
This novel still has a LOT left to say, and a lot that I'm looking forward too.
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I...did you not read the WOG explanations Lorde gave on what was happening in the future?

I don't think it's a spoiler to say Lorde has generally addressed all of this already in the posts already made. I recommend reading or rereading those.

Your complaints are certainly valid. I just think they've been answered already.

Edit: Don't want to say anything outside of this as I don't want to accidentally spoil. Sorry if I'm being overzealous, I've just been spoiled a lot and don't like doing it to others if I can help it.

Edit 2: Lol I think I misread your post. I was assuming you were telling Lorde to do a very specific set of things instead of, I think, making suggestions? It's 4am where I am so I dunno lol.
 
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Perfect time for leaviathan to attack and unleash ecidna to further the cluster fuck that this is and it's most likely to happen as the simurge is directing it to happen and lets be honest she would know he's dammaged enough to give the get go for Levi to attack, I mean she's attacked early before to kill richer.(well gotten Levi to attack early but petato potato.) This also gives ecidna time to collect and pump out caps while apirion is getting healed so yea this is going to become an even bigger cluster fuck then before yaaaa. Like I bet ya in an pov interlude at the end the endbringer alarms go off. Then after all that the s9 thousand come in and start adding to the dumpster fire. And then... well who knows what will happen.
 
Zzasicker said:
Perfect time for leaviathan to attack and unleash ecidna to further the cluster fuck that this is and it's most likely to happen as the simurge is directing it to happen and lets be honest she would know he's dammaged enough to give the get go for Levi to attack, I mean she's attacked early before to kill richer.(well gotten Levi to attack early but petato potato.) This also gives ecidna time to collect and pump out caps while apirion is getting healed so yea this is going to become an even bigger cluster fuck then before yaaaa. Like I bet ya in an pov interlude at the end the endbringer alarms go off. Then after all that the s9 thousand come in and start adding to the dumpster fire. And then... well who knows what will happen.
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Even if the endbringers show up, show can send 1 of his duplicates to fight it while the other heals him. So no I don't think it will happen. Though the S9 showing up is likely. And they weight also release ecidna, but I don't think an endbringer fight will happen.

Plus worst case scenario he would let Amy help him (which she is the best suited to seperate him and tetra other than him). Since with Joe's personality he would be willing to do a lot to stop an endbringer from messing up his city.
 
Cunuroi said:
Triumph had softened Lung up, otherwise Apeiron would have lost. Also: Dragon looked really cool

-PRT media department trying to find some positive contribution.
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"And so if Lung didn't ended breaking his hand by repeating hitting the face of Triumph then the ending would have be something different." - Official explanation of Triumph role on the fight.
 
Cosmic said:
The outcome of this fight, of this arc, FEELS like a hollow victory because in some ways it is and because it comes off as such. The chapter didn't really end on a high note.

For us readers, there was no feeling of certain triumph.
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I'm not sure what you read, but I had a shit-eating grin all chapter and rushed through dinner to get back to it.
Yes, even with the lack of kill confirmation.
In fact, the only annoyance I have with March still being alive is that I now know about it due to all the unspoilered spoilers.
 
TitanFrost said:
but Joe doesn't have to add every stray character he comes across to his main group.
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But it would be nice if he were to add someone to his main group at some point. So far that only includes beings either he or his power made, and a teenager who literally followed him home. Personally, I would like him to loot the willing members of the Undersiders, and maybe Dinah if/when he finds out about her. As far as Chen--does he even know what his clone did for Chen? It doesn't appear to have been discussed and that clone is now gone, and unlike the Naruto ones, he doesn't get their memories. Survey of course knows what happened but does she understand the significance? Or did she just know he made clothes for Chen, healed him, and said some encouraging words to him? Well, she at least knows he has a tinkertech weapon...

I also saw some worries about cleaning up the Minovsky particles..unless they can multiply somehow, they will all return to the Gundam in the workshop by Fiat. So in a little bit they will be gone--I know the items created in the workshop take two days to repair, but don't the fiat ones return/repair sooner?
 
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AntaeusTheGiant said:
But it would be nice if he were to add someone to his main group at some point. So far that only includes beings either he or his power made, and a teenager who literally followed him home. Personally, I would like him to loot the willing members of the Undersiders, and maybe Dinah if/when he finds out about her. As far as Chen--does he even know what his clone did for Chen? It doesn't appear to have been discussed and that clone is now gone, and unlike the Naruto ones, he doesn't get their memories. Survey of course knows what happened but does she understand the significance? Or did she just know he made clothes for Chen, healed him, and said some encouraging words to him? Well, she at least knows he has a tinkertech weapon...

I also saw some worries about cleaning up the Minovsky particles..unless they can multiply somehow, they will all return to the Gundam in the workshop by Fiat. So in a little bit they will be gone--I know the items created in the workshop take two days to repair, but don't the fiat ones return/repair sooner?
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24 hours iirc, so they should all vanish within a day if we're lucky. Part of me doubts that that will be the case for some reason...
 
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KSn5Ynoh said:
Oni-Lee's only definite limitations are line of sight and presumably needing to think. Cloning oneself right next to someone at the speed of thought is something that could potentially overload the targeting/firing system.
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Oni Lee being limited to line of sight is fanon.
Rooster said:
His tinkertech dissapears though
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Only fiat-backed items of which the motoroid isn't one.
DeusVult said:
Canonically, Oni Lee is a line-of-sight teleporter
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Again this is fanon
AntaeusTheGiant said:
I also saw some worries about cleaning up the Minovsky particles..unless they can multiply somehow, they will all return to the Gundam in the workshop by Fiat. So in a little bit they will be gone--I know the items created in the workshop take two days to repair, but don't the fiat ones return/repair sooner?
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I'm pretty sure that's not how it works, that thought process would also imply that like fiat backed bullets that came with a gun would disappear from the world and reappear inside it.
 
The Shallow said:
wrong on it reappearing in the workshop
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The Shallow said:
It is not as clean-cut as you make it out to be
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Leafy503 said:
They went back to the Undersiders as I recall. And also the broken pieces disappeared while the main part regenerated.
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You're right. After looking at it again, the motoroid won't reappear in the workshop. Though it will be totally repaired, and the Fleet copy ready for a fight. I think you're being very pessimistic about Fleet, his status after being repaired, and his chances of escape after regaining his kit (several different shields, who knows how many tools to get into places, weapons like the point defense lasers, etc.) Besides, it occurs to me that the motoroid will be in a poor enough state that they might not even think to strap it down or lock it up. Since, in their eyes (maybe) it'll just be broken, if very advanced, tinkertech. That's my hope, at least.
 
InsanexSilence said:
You're right. After looking at it again, the motoroid won't reappear in the workshop. Though it will be totally repaired, and the Fleet copy ready for a fight. I think you're being very pessimistic about Fleet, his status after being repaired, and his chances of escape after regaining his kit (several different shields, who knows how many tools to get into places, weapons like the point defense lasers, etc.) Besides, it occurs to me that the motoroid will be in a poor enough state that they might not even think to strap it down or lock it up. Since, in their eyes (maybe) it'll just be broken, if very advanced, tinkertech. That's my hope, at least.
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I'm actually really hoping things go well, I'm just playing devils advocate.
Is it likely that after 2 days Fleet will use the tonfas to break out immediately? Yes
is it absolutely the case? no, and there could be some complications if the PRT invests a lot into securing his tech.
 
LordRoustabout said:
Additional purchases can add different types of Workshops to your Personal Reality or expand existing ones. Anything built in one of those workshops is fiat backed to be restored to its original condition within 48 hours if damaged or destroyed.
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We all are assuming (and I do too, at the moment) that the 48 hour repair time applies to anything made in the whole area in Joe's closet, which we call the Workshop. But isn't it possible it only applies to things made in that original 100pt metal workshop or the newly acquired woodworking one? Are we certain it applies to things made in the various garages and hangers and forges and the huge crafting malls? Cause the knives for the Undersiders were all made in that metal workshop.
 
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AntaeusTheGiant said:
We all are assuming (and I do to, at the moment) that the 48 hour repair time applies to anything made in the whole area in Joe's closet, which we call the Workshop. But isn't it possible it only applies to things made in that original 100pt metal workshop or the newly acquired woodworking one? Are we certain it applies to things made in the various garages and hangers and the huge crafting malls? Cause the knives for the Undersiders were all made in that metal workshop.
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THe crafting mall was integrated into his workshop, so the fiat spreads to there. Not sure if he has done any crafting inside the hangers, but the base of the motoroid was made into the workshop, and I hope "original condition" applies to any upgrades made outside the place, like how Joe can sorta alter CP-Bought items.
 
InsanexSilence said:
You're right. After looking at it again, the motoroid won't reappear in the workshop. Though it will be totally repaired, and the Fleet copy ready for a fight. I think you're being very pessimistic about Fleet, his status after being repaired, and his chances of escape after regaining his kit (several different shields, who knows how many tools to get into places, weapons like the point defense lasers, etc.) Besides, it occurs to me that the motoroid will be in a poor enough state that they might not even think to strap it down or lock it up. Since, in their eyes (maybe) it'll just be broken, if very advanced, tinkertech. That's my hope, at least.
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Here is my reason but it does contain a spoiler that Lord has mentioned related to Marches fate.
The fiat effect does not effect single use items as Lord believed it would be to exploitable, so food, munitions, and of course Call Gems. March destroyed the bead in the Motoriod, the very thing that powers it is gone and only Joe can make them so until Joe retrieves the motoriod it will remain deactivated.
 
Mourning Glory said:
Here is my reason but it does contain a spoiler that Lord has mentioned related to Marches fate.
The fiat effect does not effect single use items as Lord believed it would be to exploitable, so food, munitions, and of course Call Gems. March destroyed the bead in the Motoriod, the very thing that powers it is gone and only Joe can make them so until Joe retrieves the motoriod it will remain deactivated.
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Yeah considering that reason, Dragon will be free to RE it as much she wants, Assuming she can find a way to power the temporarily removed components without magic.
 
Y'all are talking about the motoriod, but for all we know
March, in the process of getting to the call bead, might wreck the cycle even more, not to say what the effect of a temporary shardspace breach might have on the surrounding area. [SPOILER/]
 
So, even though the call bead wouldn't normally need to be replaced, since it fills the "fuel" slot of the motoroid, it isn't covered by fiat repair just as the Pinto wouldn't automatically fill itself up with gasoline. That does make sense. So all Joe would need to do is ninja-sneak to where it is (possibly but hopefully not on the Rig), possibly with an invisible potion, pop a call bead into it, open a door and shove it into it, close it, and get out without being detected. Possibly with Lethe as a supporter, or even doing part of it instead of him. She could do the insert call bead part and have Fleet pilot it out, though that would be less subtle.

On another subject entirely, does anyone know how quickly Super Sea Snails breed? When I was a kid I had several aquariums, some snails didn't breed much but most of them tended to have population explosions. Joe might originally be resolved to keep them as pets only, but if they start to fill and over-run their assigned areas he may have second and third thoughts....

Edit: On a slightly related and not yet relevant area, 24 Kerbals also should be enough to start an ongoing population. Is there any notes at all in Kerbal lore about their reproductive cycles? It probably won't be relevant for the timeline of this story outside possible epilogues (or longer than normal timeskips) , but could there be an entire Kerbal village in the workshop in the future? Or would they want to settle in the outer world if they grew in numbers that large? well, duh, they would want to settle in outer space. Or on another planet or moon. I'm an idiot.

Double Edit: I did find a couple of links that talked about/around this but they didn't seem very conclusive:
https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/177584-kerbal-reproduction/

Kerbal Space Program 2 dev reveals how baby Kerbals are made

and that second one is from a sequel rather than the forge one anyway....
 
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On the snails , you only need th shells for the upgrades so joe could farm
And besides that , using hormones to halt or start breeding prob isn't evil , just being a good owner
 
I think my position hasn't changed. I still think the mechanism by which March survived is shaky, at best and I'd rather see a more 'possible' solution - such as an emergency evacuation teleporter, even if it does mean March is better off for it.

That said, Lord Roustabout is by far the better author, and I will trust that what he believes to be the better solution in this scenario.
 
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