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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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Nimeroni said:
Oni Lee wasn't directed by March (and he had less equippement).
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And Joe didn't have 90% of his perks.

My point is more that in the 11 days between their fights, it's a bit gauling that somehow Oni came out "stronger".

I know he is holding back and isn't fufillimg his full potential, I know that the ABB were prepared and March is bonkers strong. I just didn't think that's things would play out SO poorly for him.

I hope he's learned that he needs to get serious now, because he can't lose like this again or it'll feel like for me it undercuts just how powerful the CF is supposed to be.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
...Wait yeah, why didn't his point defences annihilate all of those Oni Lees as soon as they appeared? Even with March's help, there's a limit to how fast Lee can activate his power.
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Oni-Lee's only definite limitations are line of sight and presumably needing to think. Cloning oneself right next to someone at the speed of thought is something that could potentially overload the targeting/firing system.
 
Nimeroni said:
...everything he make in the workshop is fiat backed, broken piece of tech will disappear in a few days (like his monomolecular blades). Trying to do some reverse engineering is night impossible against him as you work under a very strict time limit.
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It isn't like capturing his tech and trying to reverse engineer it would do you any good anyways. By the time you have just barely started on making progress on the beginnings of the start of what the tech can do, he will have mastered another 3 or 4 tech trees that radically increase his ability to do stuff. Even X-com tier research speeds are not fast enough to keep up with his growth rate.

By the time you make any actual progress in reverse engineering maybe one thing Joe will have finished making an army of Friendbringers. Or done a singularity or two. Or similar.
 
I don't feel like there's any tension in the fights though. They've all played out basically the same so far, just with more expensive special effects.

If you don't want to write a story where the MC is more powerful than 99% of the setting... don't make him that powerful.
 
Narasan said:
He had march in his hands and didnt kill her. Also ignored her afterwards. He literally thought about her wanting to destroy the worlds and then went: " lets ignore this and fight lung instead " like something straight out of dc. This was painful to read.
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He took her out of the fight.
At that moment she wasnt a threat, lung was.
One is an immediate threat ,the other is something he could deal with after beating lung(in his mind)
He probably didnt think he would be this injured after the fight.
 
Awesome chapter, but yeah, there's just so many things that deflate my enjoyment.

There was Oni Lee dodging and avoiding lasers aimed by AI. Possibly being still alive.

Bakuda being still alive. And of course, March doesn't seem to be dead despite taking a superhuman punch that should at least leave her organs mush and bleeding to death.

If Lord wanted to keep March and drag out her stay, I'd would have accepted her never getting into range of Apieron and retreating via U&L teleporter when things hit the fan. Instead, there was the villain monologue as she was about to finish off the hero followed by the "avoid instant death at the last second" and "no body, no confirmation."

Lung's death is also uncertain since it's a "Probably."

Edit: The Oni Lee explanation is better noticed second reading.

Also would like to highlight some of the positive of the chapter. The Chen Preamble is amazing. I love the possiblies this opens up now that he's becoming a significant character. There's also a lot of future implications with the Aura unlocking

I love how you can gage the point in time by the duplicate feeling the roll of That Undefinable Thing which opened Aura Unlocking.

I love the stomp of the ABB normals. The Oni Lee and March Sting bomb trap along with Joe's panic really had me in suspense. Then the come back along with the many parts on Tetra really got my blood pumping. I really like how Tetra finally got to go into Joe and I love the Pro Aima.

The choice of animal for the Beast Form is something I've never hear of yet super awesome. Really like the Dust, broken visor, Tetra and her tendril, etc. creating this image of some super monster form.

The deploying of Trauma was dramatic and epic. I also love the History's Strongest Disciple perks coming into play and Joe becoming a ninja. There's also Master Body and how cool the Lung fight was especially the interaction with Dragon.
 
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cranical form said:
My point is more that in the 11 days between their fights, it's a bit gauling that somehow Oni came out "stronger".
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In their first fight Oni Lee was nearly incapable of damaging Joe and liked to get up close and personal and got a broken arm for it. Here Oni Lee was using things actually capable of hurting Joe and staying as far away as possible. It's just that simple. Besides how did Oni Lee come out "Stronger"? How will be fine in a couple of hours. Oni Lee is a dead man walking.
 
adoltin said:
I don't get why so many people have an issue with March surviving.
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She has been built up as a major threat and the MC.....did nothing at all.
adoltin said:
At this point she's possibly the only credible threat to give fights tension outside of Scion and the Endbringers.
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So that is reasons to give her plot armor? I mean if you hit a person hard enough to slam her into a wall after feeling her ribs break, they would die.
adoltin said:
Remove her and Aperion could probably steamroll almost everyone else.
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There are other ways to makean interesting story. Things like a more social focus, politics etc.

People are just getting sick as there is no pay off.

Take the latest post for example. It was Mach who hurt the MC's glove friend that made him go into rage mode. The same March that was standing right in front of him. The same March that is a Global threat, that his powers explicitly warned him off. Yet despite all of that.....

He attacked Lung. That was less an idiot ball and more railroading.
 
You know I just realized a way the Oni Lee thing makes sense.

He's teleporting in after the cloning process. Which isn't how his power works (he teleports and leaves a clone behind/the clone he creates becomes the primary while the old him dusts, it's not stated outright), Buuuuut, and this is the big but, there is a big thing to consider.

He's been armed by two Tinkers, and any 'get into combat after creation' device he uses only needs to work once to do it's job.

He literally could be spamming clones while remaining behind things the entire time.
 
Narasan said:
He had march in his hands and didnt kill her. Also ignored her afterwards. He literally thought about her wanting to destroy the worlds and then went: " lets ignore this and fight lung instead " like something straight out of dc. This was painful to read.
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do you know how difficult it is to think in that state. To be in so much pane that you can barley stand so much so that the only thing keeping you up is the adrenalin and the sear HATE you have for the person that opposes you. A singular stop in your thought proses is more than anufe for you to forget one target and swich it for another.

...and strangered.
 
That might of been the single most epic chapter of worm fanfiction I have ever read. It feels like this story is being set up that shards are giving parahumans more powers to counter and generate more data wouldn't surprise me to see more parahumans show up who are a threat to him.

Also I'm so so looking forward to the PHO and interlude posts thank you very much for this.
 
adoltin said:
I don't get why so many people have an issue with March surviving. At this point she's possibly the only credible threat to give fights tension outside of Scion and the Endbringers. Remove her and Aperion could probably steamroll almost everyone else. Even then she's only a threat when directing large numbers of forces like a discount canon Khepri. Aperion can only improve and her resources can only diminish. She is fighting a losing battle and she will most likely now realize it. Which could lead to something interesting if she gets desperate and starts making mistakes.
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It's not the fact that she survived. It's the manner in which she likely has.
 
Hmmm.

Tsk. I just couldn't enjoy the fight. Sorry.

During the periods when people complained about the MC making bad decisions I was one of the people that was totally on board with everything that was happening. The way people speak and emote in this fic is still excellent. The sense of showmanship is great. Massive Kaiju-Man vs Giant Robot, how can this not be epic?

Well it can't be epic because I don't buy Lung being a threat at this point. The MC has hit too many defensive powers for conflicts of this scale to be threatening and when they are my memory is bringing up so many things that MC has, just never uses. Even badly injured from March the MC should still be invulnerable to lung. At this point the material he makes is as though as Alexandria and I'm supposed to believe that Lung can injure him and not be killed by a single absent minded blow?

March was taken out by Vista and Lung was poisoned by Skitter.

They really weren't as much of a thread in Canon as they were made out to be here. And that's even taking into account that the shards are pulling bullshit by feeding everyone who fights him lessened restrictions. There's a temporary boost and then there's throwing down with Titans.

The way this fic is written is enjoyable, but one can shut down their brain and suspend disbelief only for so long. It's like watching Superman fight except he's being injured by someone who's a B-lister and they're not even holding any Kryptonite.

You know who would've obtained flawless victory against the ABB? Aisha. The kind of person that has the armor to survive getting caught in most random blasts and with the convenient power that dunks on March. Her getting in and assassinating March then getting out could've been her own epic moment. Something that was believably hard, yet also very achievable. Instead we got a fight that topped all previous fights and hits the endbringer/scion problem that makes going back to street level a disappointment and escalating further just ridiculous.

I swear to god, this is the first time I'm complaining about something I very much enjoyed.
 
Wait, Lee loses a part of himself every time he clones himself. He cloned himself a lot in his fight against Joe just then. How much did he lose I wonder? Is he going to be found the next day staring weirdly at his nearly bisected leg?

I get that that's an exaggeration, he's probably cloned himself a lot since he's got his powers but the amount he did in just this one fight really must be putting a strain on him.
 
Cosmic said:
There was Oni Lee dodging and avoiding lasers. Possibly being still alive.
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Oni Lee never dodged laser, the original was never where the lasers pointed. He always teleported then let the clones act.

Rooster said:
Well it can't be epic because I don't buy Lung being a threat at this point. The MC has hit too many defensive powers for conflicts of this scale to be threatening and when they are my memory is bringing up so many things that MC has, just never uses. Even badly injured from March the MC should still be invulnerable to lung. At this point the material he makes is as though as Alexandria and I'm supposed to believe that Lung can injure him and not be killed by a single absent minded blow?
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The question was never "can Apeiron survive Lung", and always "can Lung survive Apeiron long enough before Apeiron dies from internal injuries".

Rooster said:
Lung was poisoned by Skitter.
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Unramped Lung was poisoned by Skitter in canon (and splated by Apeiron during Aisha rescue in this story). Ramped Lung is another ball of hairs entirely. The usual answer to a ramped Lung is to get the hell out of there until he un-ramp.
 
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Mizuki_Stone said:
And she failed she failed hard. It all but certainly cost her her arm. It might have cost her mobility in general, assuming she even managed to 'time' her fall well enough to even survive, or if even perfect timing wasn't enough. She was stomped into the ground, and the empire she built crumbled and burned.

Moreover, her threat level. Her actual threat level is now likely outed to the masses, given Coil is a spiteful bastard actively trying to kill her, and the warnings given.

Assuming she's a live. Assuming she pulls herself in the clear, can get herself fixed up and functional. It will be a long, time until she's ready to try this sort of thing again, and when she is ready to start that... she will remember she failed.

And also know that the one who felled her is so, so much more powerful now.

Not saying she won't try again anyway at that point, but if she does... I wager it will be with no small hesitation.

After all, even if her power urges her to move without waste... where did that get her today?
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Good point, but even in such a state she is still operating at full capacity when it comes to achieving her ultimate goals regarding shardspace and still capable of performing the annihalator combination with Oni Lee (who btw had no business surviving the night either) and continues to have Bakuda and Leet at her disposal. It's as if nothing happened. Despite being physically impaired and suffering a big defeat, it doesn't impact her power's most dangerous capabilities. She'll be more wary, her shard will likely now unlock full functionality similar to Lung's after processing the new information/challenge that Apeiron poses, and nothing is gained on our side.

All that tinkering, all that build up, and Aperion hasn't made a single step of progress towards permanently eliminating the threats laid against him. They're just built to keep scaling just as fast or even faster than he does. The past 100k words just feel worthless as nothing definitive was achieved, no milestone was reached; just the elimination of mr side boss dragon. As much as the Gun-EZ fight was great, it's not something against the main threats this story has been building up.

It's just incredibly unsatisfying to read as a conclusion to this arc.
 
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Fragmented Mind said:
do you know how difficult it is to think in that state. To be in so much pane that you can barley stand so much so that the only thing keeping you up is the adrenalin and the sear HATE you have for the person that opposes you. A singular stop in your thought proses is more than anufe for you to forget one target and swich it for another.

...and strangered.
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He literally punched her, while being full rage superhuman and didnt kill her. This is- while enraged as you described it he specifically didnt kill her.
 
LordRoustabout said:
March's striker power, that omni-dimensional explosion, was painted on the board held by every copy of Oni Lee. Somehow, impossibly, Oni Lee was able to duplicate March's ridiculously powerful attack. Oni Lee was able to teleport March's ridiculously powerful attack.
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I'm really glad this is called out in the story, because "impossibly" is about right. Sting is a shard used by Entities to murder each other. It generates a very specific kind of multidimensional effect which seems to be near impossible to block even at Entity level. Sting's effect should be approximately the absolute hardest thing to be replicated by other shards. And yet some random matter-duplication shard can perfectly copy it? <clockblocker.gif>

About March... well, my prediction on the matter is that she mysteriously vanishes, not by Oni Lee or crawling away, but by Cauldron deciding to snatch a cape who just revealed themselves as one of the most powerful Thinkers and Strikers in the world on a live broadcast, and then made the mistake of going off-screen. Sure, she disrupts Thinkers, but with such an amazing opportunity they don't need Contessa to pull this off, normal human planning will be enough, not to mention that Thinker immunity only increases March's value. It's unlikely that they will just leave such an asset to die in a ditch, or leave her to her own devices after seeing the kind of stuff she does for fun. Of course, they have plenty of ways to ensure her cooperation, so this isn't going to be particularly fun for her.
 
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adoltin said:
I don't get why so many people have an issue with March surviving. At this point she's possibly the only credible threat to give fights tension outside of Scion and the Endbringers. Remove her and Aperion could probably steamroll almost everyone else. Even then she's only a threat when directing large numbers of forces like a discount canon Khepri. Aperion can only improve and her resources can only diminish. She is fighting a losing battle and she will most likely now realize it. Which could lead to something interesting if she gets desperate and starts making mistakes.
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Well sure, that's a good Doylist reason for Aperion not killing March. However, that holds exactly zero water as a Watsonian argument.
 
adoltin said:
In their first fight Oni Lee was nearly incapable of damaging Joe and liked to get up close and personal and got a broken arm for it. Here Oni Lee was using things actually capable of hurting Joe and staying as far away as possible. It's just that simple. Besides how did Oni Lee come out "Stronger"? How will be fine in a couple of hours. Oni Lee is a dead man walking.
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Despite the turnaround, the fact is that Lee beat Joe. He had a lot of support, but that's no excuse when between all the different perks and clones, those 11 days where the equivalent of decades of master work using massively advanced tech and literal magic on Joes side.
 
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