Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

I can't believe I managed to wade my way through the comments. I know that the only reason that I bothered was in case someone had posted a good o-make. There were 2 brief ones. They weren't worth going through the 20 pages though.

I stayed up that first night until 3 am finishing the fic. I'm never sure how many people on this site are speed readers, skim the bulk of it, or just have their own reading superpowers.

It took me until now to get caught up with what folks have been saying. Whoa. Now, I remember why I don't bother reading the comments to some fics and only the posts that make it into a thread mark.

I never realized that there was so much raw March hate on this site. Lord's done well with her. She's been fleshed out a bit and due to her presence, the locals have managed to step up and keep things engaging. Lord's told us from day one that Joe found out about March that he'd have issues with her striker power and the only thing he could do is dodge it.

I actually enjoyed things.

It felt like Joe had taken down the bulk of baseline humans of the ABB before Oni Lee showed up. At that point, the capes would have basically needed to create/recruit an entire new gang of minions to work for them. They didn't have anyone left.

Let's admit that Joe has an unnamed power. Whenever he gets any power, he gets 5-10 minutes to mentally explain that perk and what he could do or how it would apply to his life or things. It must be part of the Forge as Joe has had it from day one. It royally screws with the pacing though.

Some of these should be blazing fast and Joe gets a perk and suddenly it seems like he stops to think about it and explain it to us. Let's admit it we are all guilty of thinking that he mentally spends like 30 minutes going over each new perk whenever he gets one rather than paying attention to the mess he is in.

I never knew March from Ward. I only knew her from this fic. I actually wanted more slice of life background bits with her. I also wanted her to entirely miss the Apeiron and Joe thing. From her POV, she may have missed many things. We only really get one good scene of showing off her POV.


It would be so ironic when Joe recovers the motoroid that he finds a new exsphere with March's soul in it.


I'm glad that Uber and Leet weren't involved with that mess. They've been presenting themselves as Apeiron's rivals. They've lost every encounter, but still. Now, they've seen just how high the bar is. Folks are going to get inspired.


Lung is going to MIA and not thought KIA. I can see that being used to keep the gang as still intact as possible. They'd likely split into a few competing groups only remotely allied due to the E88. Let's be honest, the ABB will be around for the next week or two. They'll mainly be playing a holding action against all the other groups as well as the Asian community actually striking back a bit.


Joe just played xianxia wandering cultivator gifting crap to Chen.

Folks seem to have totally missed Chen's POV. He wasn't irked at the ABB capes. He was irked at their regular gang members. It was them that made life utterly hell for his community. Now, if the PRT and the local national guard acts quickly enough, there won't be many existing ABB gang members left.

They'd all be arrested and processed just in case they had bombs in them. The government might just be happy to arrest them all and move them out of the state or the worst holding cells of the entire state if possible.

Chen will be the first of the new breed of local Asian capes. It would be funny if his platform was family and community values.

I hope he won't be in too much trouble over March. She was underage and all that. Then again she did plan out his murder as well as what she was doing with Bakuda to the locals. Most locals won't care about her. They'll be thankful that she is gone.


Bakuda is still around for a bit. She's actually the only interesting one left of the ABB. She has a short time frame before her functional arms become obviously body horrors. I doubt she'll spend that time trying to heal herself though. I can see one last bomb from her. Even if its only a going out in style bomb, which might be even worse.


What am I waiting for after the interlude? The Aisha training montage of doom. O.k. there may be a tiny part of me that wants Joe to recruit Chen as Mister Miyagi. Can you just see it? Aisha this is just a totally random elder Asian guy that owes me a slight favor. He has agreed to avoid overseeing your training montage. Also, Chen might get one as well in aura use by the clones. Chen and Aisha quickly come to agreements over tea.

I can't wait for what folks think of the Minovsky particles. I actually don't want all the ezzo, dust, Minovsky particles, and anything else to just be auto recovered. I don't mind the items he makes being repaired. I just don't like the idea of the major mess just needing 48 hours and instant clean up.

We have Armsmaster needing a rebuild. He isn't in the best state to examine the motoroid. I could see him and Dragon looking over it as quickly/completely as they can for ideas for his upgrades. Worse comes to worse, I could see them sticking Armsmaster in it just for the mobility factor. Does the motoroid have a secure quantum com? If so, there is no reason that Joe would really need to recall it. He could actually let that copy of Fleet help out Armsmaster.

While Joe might know that he and Armsmaster could never work together, Armsmaster was always the tinker that he thought about while growing up and going through school. He'd love to be able to help the guy out in some way.
 
I can't believe I managed to wade my way through the comments. I know that the only reason that I bothered was in case someone had posted a good o-make. There were 2 brief ones. They weren't worth going through the 20 pages though.

I stayed up that first night until 3 am finishing the fic. I'm never sure how many people on this site are speed readers, skim the bulk of it, or just have their own reading superpowers.

It took me until now to get caught up with what folks have been saying. Whoa. Now, I remember why I don't bother reading the comments to some fics and only the posts that make it into a thread mark.

I never realized that there was so much raw March hate on this site. Lord's done well with her. She's been fleshed out a bit and due to her presence, the locals have managed to step up and keep things engaging. Lord's told us from day one that Joe found out about March that he'd have issues with her striker power and the only thing he could do is dodge it.

I actually enjoyed things.

It felt like Joe had taken down the bulk of baseline humans of the ABB before Oni Lee showed up. At that point, the capes would have basically needed to create/recruit an entire new gang of minions to work for them. They didn't have anyone left.

Let's admit that Joe has an unnamed power. Whenever he gets any power, he gets 5-10 minutes to mentally explain that perk and what he could do or how it would apply to his life or things. It must be part of the Forge as Joe has had it from day one. It royally screws with the pacing though.

Some of these should be blazing fast and Joe gets a perk and suddenly it seems like he stops to think about it and explain it to us. Let's admit it we are all guilty of thinking that he mentally spends like 30 minutes going over each new perk whenever he gets one rather than paying attention to the mess he is in.

I never knew March from Ward. I only knew her from this fic. I actually wanted more slice of life background bits with her. I also wanted her to entirely miss the Apeiron and Joe thing. From her POV, she may have missed many things. We only really get one good scene of showing off her POV.


It would be so ironic when Joe recovers the motoroid that he finds a new exsphere with March's soul in it.


I'm glad that Uber and Leet weren't involved with that mess. They've been presenting themselves as Apeiron's rivals. They've lost every encounter, but still. Now, they've seen just how high the bar is. Folks are going to get inspired.


Lung is going to MIA and not thought KIA. I can see that being used to keep the gang as still intact as possible. They'd likely split into a few competing groups only remotely allied due to the E88. Let's be honest, the ABB will be around for the next week or two. They'll mainly be playing a holding action against all the other groups as well as the Asian community actually striking back a bit.


Joe just played xianxia wandering cultivator gifting crap to Chen.

Folks seem to have totally missed Chen's POV. He wasn't irked at the ABB capes. He was irked at their regular gang members. It was them that made life utterly hell for his community. Now, if the PRT and the local national guard acts quickly enough, there won't be many existing ABB gang members left.

They'd all be arrested and processed just in case they had bombs in them. The government might just be happy to arrest them all and move them out of the state or the worst holding cells of the entire state if possible.

Chen will be the first of the new breed of local Asian capes. It would be funny if his platform was family and community values.

I hope he won't be in too much trouble over March. She was underage and all that. Then again she did plan out his murder as well as what she was doing with Bakuda to the locals. Most locals won't care about her. They'll be thankful that she is gone.


Bakuda is still around for a bit. She's actually the only interesting one left of the ABB. She has a short time frame before her functional arms become obviously body horrors. I doubt she'll spend that time trying to heal herself though. I can see one last bomb from her. Even if its only a going out in style bomb, which might be even worse.


What am I waiting for after the interlude? The Aisha training montage of doom. O.k. there may be a tiny part of me that wants Joe to recruit Chen as Mister Miyagi. Can you just see it? Aisha this is just a totally random elder Asian guy that owes me a slight favor. He has agreed to avoid overseeing your training montage. Also, Chen might get one as well in aura use by the clones. Chen and Aisha quickly come to agreements over tea.

I can't wait for what folks think of the Minovsky particles. I actually don't want all the ezzo, dust, Minovsky particles, and anything else to just be auto recovered. I don't mind the items he makes being repaired. I just don't like the idea of the major mess just needing 48 hours and instant clean up.

We have Armsmaster needing a rebuild. He isn't in the best state to examine the motoroid. I could see him and Dragon looking over it as quickly/completely as they can for ideas for his upgrades. Worse comes to worse, I could see them sticking Armsmaster in it just for the mobility factor. Does the motoroid have a secure quantum com? If so, there is no reason that Joe would really need to recall it. He could actually let that copy of Fleet help out Armsmaster.

While Joe might know that he and Armsmaster could never work together, Armsmaster was always the tinker that he thought about while growing up and going through school. He'd love to be able to help the guy out in some way.

It's not March hate exactly, but the feeling that she's way way overstayed her welcome and that by every measure of logic, should've died instantly on impact when Joe hit her rather than the ambiguous note it ended.

LR's spoilers just made it worse.

and for the love of God! When will we get rid of March?! I don't care if she's a Zombie now, I wanted her DEAD! Not bullshit deus ex machina.
 
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So, a portal to shardspace might have more repercussions than stated. I'll admit I haven't read Ward, but didn't explosions in shardspace cause parahumans to have their powers change in expression? The results of that could be quite fun, in my opinion. I'm fond of seeing variations of canon powersets, so I'd definitely be happy to see that here. Plus it's another way to shake up the playing field, which clearly hasn't been done enough yet.
 
Spoilers buddy.
It's not March hate exactly, but the feeling that she's way way overstayed her welcome and that by every measure of logic, should've died instantly on impact when Joe hit her rather than the ambiguous note it ended.

LR's spoilers just made it worse.

and for the love of God! When will we get rid of March?! I don't care if she's a Zombie now, I wanted her DEAD! Not bullshit deus ex machina.
At the very least, it's a fate worse than death.
After all, due to her method of survival, her pseudo-PTV is toast, and she's not getting it back. Her timing now seems to be Manton Limited, which is absolutely delicious.
 
Spoilers buddy.

At the very least, it's a fate worse than death.
After all, due to her method of survival, her pseudo-PTV is toast, and she's not getting it back. Her timing now seems to be Manton Limited, which is absolutely delicious.

Frankly I don't care. She's still alive. That's my problem. Maybe if she's stuck in perpetual infinite agony, getting disintegrated cell by cell and over and over while trapped forever in shardspace as an ironic punishment maybe I can stand it. Instead the fact that she can still act at all after all the stuff Joe did? I will never stop hating it.

I can love a story as a whole while despising one specific plot point, and that plot point was March's fate.
 
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. I wanted to do another pass of the chapter to try to change the tone of Joe's perspective at varying points to try to better convey the effect on his mind. Unfortunately, developing distinct writing styles for when he was pain addled and incapacitated, then overwhelmed by alien mental influence, then drowning in primal instincts, and then granted sudden Zen like clarity was something I didn't have time to complete.
A piece of advice from someone who has read a lot of fiction on sites like this, a good way I have seen is to use eldritch/corrupted Font like G̶͍̽̅l̶̤̘̈́͒ǐ̶̥̳t̷̙͚̔̀c̷̺̱̆h̴̼͒ ̷̻͋T̶̪́e̷̤̺͘x̸͖͒̀ṫ̴̞̰ as long as its for only one or two words, or use a more normal font style with alternate colors and size
Ex: Mental influence: They would pay for F̴̧̑o̶͍͆r̴͔̈́ ̴̯̀h̴̗̀u̴̾͜r̸̳̓n̵͉̅t̶̡̄ỉ̵̖n̴̤͂g̶͎̈́ ̴̞̚h̵̙̎é̸̢ȓ̷̼
they hurt her,
they would pay.
This is because if it is used sparingly it really stands out. A good example is "With this ring" as the author uses the fact we known what the colors represent with lantern rings so he has short pieces of dialog or inner thoughts colored that to show moments of great willpower, greed, love, anger or other things. It lets him show how determined or enraged a character is with just a single sentence that doesn't need a outright description in words.
 
I forgot if Lord talked about this already, but is the next chapter going to be an interlude or a full chapter with the heroes' reactions being at the beginning (since the addendum of the last chapter wasn't finished in time)?
 
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Frankly I don't care. She's still alive. That's my problem. Maybe if she's stuck in perpetual infinite agony, getting disintegrated cell by cell and over and over while trapped forever in shardspace as an ironic punishment maybe I can stand it. Instead the fact that she can still act at all after all the stuff Joe did? I will never stop hating it.
As Lord said, she is 'Alive' only in a manner of speaking. Her power isn't nerfed at all, technically. She is more like late-golden-morning Taylor, having lost most of her humanity. With how shard filtered her mind is right now, it would be surprising if she could even speak her own name. The only goal she probobly has in this state is her Shard-based drive to stab Flechette, and a lot more directly then previously. She would probobly go Titan if the Admin was dead. Not that she cannot cause more damage, but it will probobly be to the PRT, and with her reduced reasoning, her detainment is also likely.
 
I know that the entire exercise of fiction is to rouse one's emotions towards fictional characters

But, um

Are you okay

Oh I'm fine now, honestly, I just needed to vent my fruatrations a bit, but now I'm relaxed again and back to being excited for LR's next chapter and grateful for his update speed

I just hope the next time March appears she gets a free treatment of Contessa's patented brain surgery with a bullet[/SPOILER]
 
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A piece of advice from someone who has read a lot of fiction on sites like this, a good way I have seen is to use eldritch/corrupted Font like G̶͍̽̅l̶̤̘̈́͒ǐ̶̥̳t̷̙͚̔̀c̷̺̱̆h̴̼͒ ̷̻͋T̶̪́e̷̤̺͘x̸͖͒̀ṫ̴̞̰ as long as its for only one or two words, or use a more normal font style with alternate colors and size
Ex: Mental influence: They would pay for F̴̧̑o̶͍͆r̴͔̈́ ̴̯̀h̴̗̀u̴̾͜r̸̳̓n̵͉̅t̶̡̄ỉ̵̖n̴̤͂g̶͎̈́ ̴̞̚h̵̙̎é̸̢ȓ̷̼
they hurt her,
they would pay.
This is because if it is used sparingly it really stands out. A good example is "With this ring" as the author uses the fact we known what the colors represent with lantern rings so he has short pieces of dialog or inner thoughts colored that to show moments of great willpower, greed, love, anger or other things. It lets him show how determined or enraged a character is with just a single sentence that doesn't need a outright description in words.

While such tactics are effective, the state of the latest chapter won't benefit from them all that much. This is because the problem is in the tone and style of the text, where it's written in that same unconcerned, sort of clinical voice that's used when Joe describes how he's building his next Marginally Effective March Killer 9000. If you go through the chapter again and look at the transition between violent, frantic combat and pondering the Mysteries of the Forge, there really isn't much of a change in tone. Lord actually addressed this with his latest comment—he knows that the narration needed a drastic tonal shift to properly convey Joe's mental state, but he just didn't have the time to do so.

Now, keeping all that in mind, what's suggested in this comment is the literary equivalent of a sledgehammer. Giant, bright red text has its place, but when you're wielding a sledgehammer, a single misplaced blow can have absolutely catastrophic effects. Or, in other words, if you can't spend the time to do the more subtle tonal shifts, you absolutely can't just swing a sledgehammer in an attempt to brute-force the right tone. Big, clunky tools like Zalgo text require a whole lot of experience and skill to use before they start being more helpful than harmful.
 
I never realized that there was so much raw March hate on this site. Lord's done well with her. She's been fleshed out a bit and due to her presence, the locals have managed to step up and keep things engaging. Lord's told us from day one that Joe found out about March that he'd have issues with her striker power and the only thing he could do is dodge it.
The problem is Lord was faithful to the source material. March is a pain in the ass, and frustrating beyond belief in Ward. Complete with Contessa level plot armor, any and all explanations of her thinker power just get more confusing because from how it is described it shouldn't work as well as it does.

Here she was an effective foil to Joe's power set; which meant it felt like very little that he did actually mattered. In the big showdown very little of importance was done with anything new Joe made with the forge. What carried the day were the ancillary freebies he got: were-dino, Kenichi martial arts, Tetra, even the gundum weren't things he made.

The Boots of God Stomping were given a good amount of screen time when they were made. Did they do anything of relevance? Nope. The only stuff march had any visible trouble working around was the stuff he got then and there, which is problematic when Joe is characterized by the Forge.

March, and to be fair Bakuda, was the focal antagonist for hundreds of thousands of words. The narrative resolution was lacking, to avoid spoilers at least half of the participants of the discussion before Lord's spoilers assumed she lived- via asspull and MC Idiot Ball. The big fight was with Lung (we only cared about Lung because he got some screen time showing he got swatted by Aperion) and it was only as big as it was because of a Deus ex Machina power-up he got. To be fair anyone else going against Aperion should get it too, but Lisa sure ain't. It felt like the big boss fight let all the antagonist characters we were invested in get away. Setting Joe back to where he was before the fight. March's PTV light just made it fell like it was all going to be pointless and happen again as soon as needed.
 
I forgot if Lord talked about this already, but is the next chapter going to be an interlude or a full chapter with the heroes' reactions being at the beginning (since the addendum of the last chapter wasn't finished in time)?
It's going to be a full chapter interlude of Vicky's POV from before, during and after the fight. Also Joe will not be getting any new perks in the chapter so the 1900(!) points from the current one will have to last him.
 
This isn't me asking for knowledge of future events. Just wanted to say that I hope for an update on Gully since the only reason that she's even in BB is to see if Joe can make her life a little less of a shit show than it has been.

Seeing how she was feeling towards the end of her partial chapter where she was starting to feel that she wouldn't be able to get assistance because of how she looks just made my soul hurt a bit, especially how she wants her fans to think of a plain shovel when they think of her. C53's just break my heart in general. It's not enough that they lose all recollection of their past lives(families and friends aren't that important and who needs to have pleasant memories anyways) but the people who they tend to attempt to protect tend to judge them based on their appearances. For a people who supposedly are accepting and open minded(one of our main heroes is gay so I guess that excuses us for treating these other people like garbage until we need them), maybe they deserve Endbringers a little. Yeah, that might be an exaggeration but just treat C53's like anyone else.

Sorry for the soapbox but the way that most fics tend to brush over the disfigurement and tragedy of these people(not this story at least, we got a good snapshot of how unfair their lot is and it also recognizes that a 'minor' improvement isn't minor to everyone) and throw a token C53 that just talks about how they look different(but notice that main C53 characters tend to lean towards pleasing appearances)....

Well, I'm really invested in seeing how(and if) Joe can help these people out in any ways.
 
Here, have another fake quote from the Discord:
Alec: Hey Taylor! Check this out!
Taylor: What is- OH GOD! Is that Joe?
Alec: Yeah. You should see what people are drawing.
Taylor: Drawing... never mind, I don't want to know.
Alec: I mean, they got the proportions right and all-
Taylor: I said I didn't want to know.
 
With everyone just still ranting about March, the only thing I can think off is Aisha showing up out of nowhere and just popping one into March's head but with her power upgraded to the point, where everybody even shards just hit the Delet button on her existence and nobody would ever remember her no matter what.

Also why do I hear Thriller?
 
So my thoughts to the newest WoG post:

So Lung is dead. I'm fine with that. In fact, that was what I had hoped for.

I think the ambiguous wording and the Cauldron comment was a blunder. From a reader and author communication perspective aka PR perspective, it fanned the flames. It would have been better if it was straight to the point and clear from the very first response. The ambiguity really dug into the wound since it was about feelings and about what Lung represents rather than objective facts and narrative reality.

I'm not trying to bash Lord since it was unintentional. I just wanted to put my observations/critic out there.


So March is a zombie now. Don't really know how to feel about that. I can say though that I'm accepting of it and that it didn't make me upset or more upset.

I want March to be dead, but since that's obviously not the planned direction, I will say that, at least, this fate for her satisfies the desires I described in my previous post. As a reader, I believe it's good/decent direction.

This fate, makes it so that she can't rival or exceed her peak which was this arc/chapter. It makes it clear that she lost, that she came out of the fight worse off. That she didn't necessarily get stronger from this defeat. The element of monkey paw is a necessary and good decision. She's still a threat, but no longer the same as she was before.

This fate makes March an individual. A singular threat. No longer the chessmaster of the ABB, she no longer represents an vast organization or a careful grand plan.


When I read Lord's comment on the Future of the ABB and on how people think the direction/chapter was "maintaining the status quo or an excuse for never-ending fights" despite the ABB falling as an organization, I felt like there was a side/point that was being missed.

It's true that the ABB are now in shambles and are practically finished. All the points Lord laid out are true. It is also unfortunate that there were some people who didn't get that they're finished. However, I feel like this is another case where it's not about the objective reality and the facts. It's once again about the feelings of the audience.

The outcome of this fight, of this arc, FEELS like a hollow victory because in some ways it is and because it comes off as such. The chapter didn't really end on a high note.

For us readers, there was no feeling of certain triumph. Hell, Triumph got his ass whooped and is probably now lying in a hospital bed.

To the readers, the mooks and normals of the ABB being taken down and arrested, the conscripts being saved and the ABB's resources and info being leaked, and most of the bombs being stopped doesn't matter. It's all details and background stuff. They don't really register. The people are NPCs, numbers, a faceless mass. We as readers sort of hold this mentality. If they aren't a cape, they don't matter.

Lung, March, and Bakuda, as characters, represent something to the readers. The clear defeat of Lung and Bakuda would have represented the end of the ABB. The readers did not see the takedown of the gang members and conscripts as the end of the ABB. It's a very Earth Bet cape culture mentality. The capes are the ABB. It's not the many normals that compromise it.

The reason that the ambiguity of Lung in the first post was bad is because it diminished and devalued the victory and the certainty in that victory. Readers needed a finality, a feeling of completeness, of closure. It's a yes or no thing. There can't be any in between.

The reason people thought the status quo was maintained is because to them, if the capes are still free or alive, nothing changed, no war was won, only a battle. There is no relief or triumph when the war still continues.


I'm bad with words, but I hope I got my points across.

Edit:
Okay so I saw this post on AO3, this specific part got me thinking:
I certainly feel like my positive response to this chapter can be largely attributed to going into it with the impression that it was a 'things get worse' chapter rather than a 'Joe wins big' chapter. Indeed, there were a full dozen moments where I specifically noted that the consequences of something happening (usually something awesome) will be terrible.
We see Joe and the Celestial Forge as the savior of Earth Bet and solution to all of Worm's problem. However, the reality is that this is Worm and things get worse. Heroes don't really get victories. They just succeed in stopping things from getting worse. Lord's words on how the main focus of the next few chapters will be on the aftermath really digs that in.
 
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Oh I'm fine now, honestly, I just needed to vent my fruatrations a bit, but now I'm relaxed again and back to being excited for LR's next chapter and grateful for his update speed

I just hope the next time March appears she gets a free treatment of Contessa's patented brain surgery with a bullet[/SPOILER]
Disintegrated. Then the soul bound. Forever removed from the cycle of reincarnation
 
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