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Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

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Graviator said:
Have we actually seen any Apeiron induced second triggers yet?
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No, but then Joe hasn't accidentally perfectly recreated anyone's trigger conditions but worse before. Creating a fake reality for Jack to live in then revealing the truth is exactly that because now he no longer has the comfort of the bunker being an understandable human creation – silently replacing humans with biodroids that fool both Bonesaw and Cherish? Faking news broadcasts on the fly? That's incomprehensible bullshit as far as Jack's concerned.
 
JacksonTaus said:
... Especially since his shard is so close to him and might want to second-trigger?
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I think it's opposite with Jack's shard.
A second trigger is supposed to increase the power in one way, while weakening it in others. If Othala was to second trigger she might be able to enhance more than a single person at once, but for half the effect and less time.
Jack's shard has been breaking the rules for quite a while, and if the change to the powers has to go through some sort of oversight (ie. QA must sign off on the new powerset) then that shard probably doesn't want to risk it.
 
Tackyseven said:
Taylor at the end of the story lost 99.9% of her range for human mastery
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She didn't Second Trigger at the end. That was messing with her brain to get what she needed to beat Zion.
Tackyseven said:
grues smoke lost it's ability to block any kind of sound and light
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What are you talking about with this? Do you have a citation for this because I don't remember that being the case. He gained the ability to heal himself in his darkness.
 
I'm still not convinced that this is similar enough to Jack's trigger event. See the WoG on it:
Jacob was a young trigger. His parents were a little mentally unbalanced, and they shut him inside a bomb shelter with a radio link to his father, who wanted to use it to instill Jacob with sufficient fear of the threats of the outside world. A one-way communication, feeding into and playing off his fears, gaslighting, convincing him a war was underway, it broke the boy, but he wasn't released when he was broken. He stayed. His parents left him in there, mostly because it was easier. In a twisted way, having a boy in the shelter to hear dad's words, it made Jacob the exact son they wanted.

He triggered on exit, his entire reality challenged on seeing that the world was fine.

Feels awkward, written that way, rather than outlined in a proper interlude. Ah well. Jack's most likely not going to get any more spotlights, so it's fine.
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To me it looks like the leadup to his trigger was a pretty major factor. It wasn't just that his world was a lie, but that he had suffered so much fear and despair for nothing.

His current situation is sort of the reverse of this. Jack thinks he's about to make the world a whole lot worse, and then it'll turn out that his entire career is about to be mercilessly ended and undone, leaving the world a better place. There's no fear leading up to this moment, no sanity-crushing gaslighting by people he trusts.

Maybe some parallels can be drawn with the world getting on just fine without him, but I don't think that's nearly enough. But we'll see.
kaosisreality said:
That has not been my impression on second triggers. Where are you getting this information?
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I'm reasonably certain canon states somewhere that second triggers are a "two steps forward, one step back" sort of thing, but I can't actually find that line right now. For an actual example, Grue's smoke became thicker and heavier, and he gained the ability to weakly drain/copy the powers of any one person in his smoke. The tradeoff is that his smoke comes out slower, but that doesn't matter much since it also expands exponentially after his second trigger.

It's not much of a tradeoff, and if you ignore the mental toll it's definitely worth it, but it's still a tradeoff.
 
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kaosisreality said:
She didn't Second Trigger at the end. That was messing with her brain to get what she needed to beat Zion.

What are you talking about with this? Do you have a citation for this because I don't remember that being the case. He gained the ability to heal himself in his darkness.
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His power is not to heal, he became a trump that copies one persons power inside his darkness. his darkness becomes thicker and slower to spread and more like tendrils

Darkness boiled out of his skin, a thin layer. It moved slower than it had before, thicker, more like tendrils sliding against one another than smoke.
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quoting canon chapter 13.9 directly here
 
Have we heard about next post date?

Shadow Archon said:
Imagine Aperion grade versions of the best foods most Fast Food chains offer. I can't sit and think up all the pun names for everything right now, but things like a "Fleet Mac" burger , "Tybalt-style" fries, and a "Big Joe" coffee would be on the menu.
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Random Speculation Prompt: Future real world interactions by members of the Forge?​

Garment now has a clothing store. Survey has established herself as a lawyer. Tetra was a model at the charity event. Kat and Fleet went clubbing. Matrix is Schrodinger's cat in regards to presence in the real world.

Any speculation as to what future real world interactions by the Forge members would be fun? Open a restaurant or a taco truck? Visit New York and Boston as tourists (accidently giving Legend a few grey hairs in the process)? Salvage the Titanic? Covertly terraform Mars?

I am honestly stumped on the Matrix. I hate to relegate the Matrix to secondary-character tech-guy but I haven't really perceived much personality or personal interests. What would the Matrix do for fun? Would the Matrix even enjoy social interaction?

Several members of the Forge have acted as mentors/teachers. I could see the Matrix choosing to progress and develop via 'parenting' another nanotechnological entity. The Machine Army are a swarm of self-replicating, self-enhancing AI machines. I could imagine a plotline in which the Matrix investigated the Machine Army then chose to act as a mentor/teacher. Besides, I'm sure the PRT would appreciate the abrupt reveal that Tennessee's S-class grey goo has dramatically evolved AND is allied with the Celestial Forge, perhaps via suddenly manifesting advanced airframes or teleporting warframes during a moment of crisis.

Apeiron: Hey, Miss Militia, could you notify the rest of the Protectorate and the PRT that 42 allied aircraft will be appearing to the west of Brockton in three minutes? Apparently the Machine Army want to help out. This division has self-designated as "The Calvary".
 
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Spidey_phd said:
Have we heard about next post date?
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There's been no word of a delay, so it should be in 7 or 8 hours. But delay announcements have come as late as two or three hours before the chapter drop in the past.


Turbonator said:
I'm still not convinced that this is similar enough to Jack's trigger event. See the WoG on it:

To me it looks like the leadup to his trigger was a pretty major factor. It wasn't just that his world was a lie, but that he had suffered so much fear and despair for nothing.

His current situation is sort of the reverse of this. Jack thinks he's about to make the world a whole lot worse, and then it'll turn out that his entire career is about to be mercilessly ended and undone, leaving the world a better place. There's no fear leading up to this moment, no sanity-crushing gaslighting by people he trusts.

Maybe some parallels can be drawn with the world getting on just fine without him, but I don't think that's nearly enough. But we'll see.
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I think a lot of the theorizing about Jack triggering is based around this WoL (Word of Lord (Roustabout)) from the previous chapter (about the possibility of Parian second-triggering):

Normally, this kind of situation wouldn't be enough for someone to second trigger. Second triggers are very rare and require extreme situations that mirror the original trigger. The thing is, for mental triggers (mostly master, stranger, thinker, and tinker) the person's mental state is more important than the reality of the situation. It doesn't actually matter if the situation is actually as bad as her first trigger as long as they're seeing things that way and experiencing the correct level of emotion. You also had a very rare situation where Parian's Shard actually wanted her to second trigger. Normally Shards try to avoid second triggers as it's very much a last resort measure, but Parian has been a sedentary cape with minimal conflict who's suddenly been thrown into a situation where there's an immense amount of potential data just waiting for her. Because of that, the threshold for second triggering is much lower for Parian, particularly if she can think herself into the right mindset. It's important to remember that Parian didn't trigger on hearing about her father's death, she triggered in the depression and isolation that followed his passing. The actual inciting incident is the hopelessness and isolation, everything else is set up.
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Previously we'd all been thinking that Parian couldn't second-trigger without someone close to her dying, but apparently it could've happened without that.

In terms of Jack second-triggering, I would imagine it would require a situation where Joe actively gloats at him about how (a) his whole career as a super-terrorist is fake, and all of Jack's strategy and skills were WAY less important to his success than the secret Shard-power he didn't know about, that his whole self-image as a brilliant tactician and manipulator is just a joke, and also (b) revealing that he's spent his last couple days totally within a reality defined by the CF that he wasn't even aware of. That might get him to the right state of mind, maybe?

Now, I don't think Joe would really do that - the value to him isn't in psychologically breaking Jack Slash, it's in removing the Nine from the collective culture. Besides, he's got forever to taunt Jack once Jack's soul is safely locked in a jar in a vault in the center of a maze at the bottom of a well somewhere in the Workshop-world a thousand miles from any of the main facilities and entrances.
 
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24 hour Delay Announcement
  • Informational
    • I'm announcing a 24 hour delay for the next chapter in order to get it properly polished. I had hoped to avoid these delays, but the new year has been hectic and I'm still dealing with everything from the holidays. Additionally, when I know a chapter will be considerably improved with a bit more time I feel it is worth the disruption to the schedule. I'd rather take a bit longer than put out something rushed and incomplete. Still, my apologies for the short notice on the delay.
     
  • Informational
    • LordRoustabout said:
    I'm announcing a 24 hour delay for the next chapter in order to get it properly polished. I had hoped to avoid these delays, but the new year has been hectic and I'm still dealing with everything from the holidays. Additionally, when I know a chapter will be considerably improved with a bit more time I feel it is worth the disruption to the schedule. I'd rather take a bit longer than put out something rushed and incomplete. Still, my apologies for the short notice on the delay.
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    No daddy Aperion today :sad:
     
    LordRoustabout said:
    I'm announcing a 24 hour delay for the next chapter in order to get it properly polished. I had hoped to avoid these delays, but the new year has been hectic and I'm still dealing with everything from the holidays. Additionally, when I know a chapter will be considerably improved with a bit more time I feel it is worth the disruption to the schedule. I'd rather take a bit longer than put out something rushed and incomplete. Still, my apologies for the short notice on the delay.
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    Of course you posted that 12 minutes after I said "There's been no word of a delay, so it should be in 7 or 8 hours."

    Kidding :)

    Hope things get less hectic for you LR, good luck.
     
    LordRoustabout said:
    I'm announcing a 24 hour delay for the next chapter in order to get it properly polished. I had hoped to avoid these delays, but the new year has been hectic and I'm still dealing with everything from the holidays. Additionally, when I know a chapter will be considerably improved with a bit more time I feel it is worth the disruption to the schedule. I'd rather take a bit longer than put out something rushed and incomplete. Still, my apologies for the short notice on the delay.
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    Would you tell us the character povs in the meantime?
     
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