Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

From what I have seen, the only two members of the Undersiders Joe can trust to the slightest degree is actually Rachel and Alec. Which is saying something that the two people that were pretty much the most messed up mentally due to so many factors are the ones that are most forward with him.

Lisa is constantly trying to get control over him for her own personal benefits even if just trusting Joe would probably be the smarter thing.

Brian constantly listens to Lisa and also puts to much focus on the idea of the "image" being so important for a group that started as smash and grab villains.

And Taylor has gone way to quickly to lethal force. Joe cares about her due to being his favorite professor's daughter who passed away along with his "powers" whole thing involving the future. Beyond that though, she has proven that she cannot be trusted to not push to far with anything he can give her. And that does include the expanded bag he gave her.

Heck, for all we know she might have been figuring out how to use socks made by Garment as part of her arsenal.

Yet again, he could do that but he doesn't trust them not to do something foolish. Such as throwing one of their knives out and having it go through atmospheric reentry. Because I'm not sure that they would burn up quickly enough to not cause damage.

Plus there is still the Simurgh flying about that is only "weakened" due to not getting accurate information. A literal shift of a space craft leaving the Earth to reach the moonbase would be a red flag for it and cause it to begin to get personally involved.
...What the ever-loving god-damned fuck are you going on about? Even if Taylor wasn't moderating her use of force appropriately, which she seems to have been, Joe can trust them, or tolerate them in spite of a lack of trust, because he can trust them as far as he can throw them and even without using his shiny new space-elevator Joe can metaphorically throw them into orbit.

Furthermore Lisa, however encouraged by her Shard to feel so, is terrified of Joe having a catastrophic power-interaction with other Trump capes and Brian, I'm fairly sure, is fixated on trying to maximize the ratio of perceived-risk-to-perceived-reward of anything detrimental to them for safety purposes; to put this in perspective you need to remember that Shards come with a degree of mental pollution and that Grue is a Stranger/Shaker Cape.
 
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...What the ever-loving god-damned fuck are you going on about? Even if Taylor wasn't moderating her use of force appropriately, which she seems to have been, Joe can trust them, or tolerate them in spite of a lack of trust, because he can trust them as far as he can throw them and even without using his shiny new space-elevator Joe can metaphorically throw them into orbit.

Furthermore Lisa, however encouraged by her Shard to feel so, is terrified of Joe having a catastrophic power-interaction with other Trump capes and Brian, I'm fairly sure, is fixated on trying to maximize the ratio of perceived-risk-to-perceived-reward of anything detrimental to them for safety purposes; to put this in perspective you need to remember that Shards come with a degree of mental pollution and that Grue is a Stranger/Shaker Cape.
Alright, here you go. This was LR's response when I discussed the subject of the Undersiders folding into the Celestial Forge.
The Undersiders all have significant baggage that would make folding them into Joe's team difficult. He could just push past those issues and nobody would really question him at this point, but that's not going to change the fact that Bitch and Regent are wanted for murder, Alec has a laundry list of horrible acts from when he was under Heartbreaker, Grue has been involved in petty and non-petty crime since his trigger, Taylor butchered a Ward on live TV, and Tattletale is assumed to have masterminded everything. Joe would want to make sure the Undersiders are alright, but that will mostly mean giving them options outside of violent cape work.
Simply put, Joe doesn't have the reason to trust the Undersiders even if he cares for them, because what is the point of having them join when all Joe wants is to put them out of danger? And to be part of the Celestial Forge would be the only way they'll be seeing any part of the Workshop - heck, even with Uppercrust basically selling his soul to Apeiron, it'll take much longer for him to be invited in there. And that's with Joe knowing full well that Uppercrust has no ill intentions for him and was entirely being honest when he said that he would offer everything to Apeiron if that was what it took to be healed. In comparison, Joe has to actively manage the Undersiders so they don't get in trouble while Lisa and Brian believe that they need to manage Apeiron so he doesn't get in trouble. There's just no trust there outside of the debt Joe is holding over their heads to keep them straight.

It's not the part where Joe can't deal with them if it becomes necessary because if that was the case, then considering there's very little Joe can't handle at this point you'd think he'd shown off his Workshop already. It's both a security reason and an emotional reason - the Workshop is Joe's safe space, and only those he trusts fully can enter the wonderful world that the Workshop has become at this point. Even Aisha only managed to get her foot into the door by essentially lucking out in putting her foot in her mouth in such a way that Joe decided the only way he could trust Aisha with his secret identity was to make her fully aware of what she was getting into. But the Undersiders won't get that chance, because Joe already trusted them once and got burnt for it the moment Aegis got cut up in public with the weapons Joe trusted them with.
 
...What the ever-loving god-damned fuck are you going on about? Even if Taylor wasn't moderating her use of force appropriately, which she seems to have been, Joe can trust them, or tolerate them in spite of a lack of trust, because he can trust them as far as he can throw them and even without using his shiny new space-elevator Joe can metaphorically throw them into orbit.

Furthermore Lisa, however encouraged by her Shard to feel so, is terrified of Joe having a catastrophic power-interaction with other Trump capes and Brian, I'm fairly sure, is fixated on trying to maximize the ratio of perceived-risk-to-perceived-reward of anything detrimental to them for safety purposes; to put this in perspective you need to remember that Shards come with a degree of mental pollution and that Grue is a Stranger/Shaker Cape.
I was looking more at it from the perspective of Joe to be honest.

Joe's first interaction with the Undersiders was influenced by his "Agent" being happy to see them. But then he learned about what happened during the bank robbery. That terrified him and he felt responsible for giving them the knives that they ordered from him. (Although I personally find it funny that the equipment he needed to make them became obsolete within about a day or two.)

Lisa has been shown to have issues about control, which admittedly, gets worse with Joe because of how he gets new abilities and knowledge that would warrant a PRT Rating by themselves. Not to mention his personal reality that holds equipment that every Tinker would literally give their first child for to be able to spend a day in.

But here's something that might have been forgotten by us readers. What happened to them thanks to Bakuda.

Brian, Lisa, and Alec were going to die if not for Joe and his Nanomachines from Generator Rex being able to heal them. Alec was already the most screwed up and is still recovering from it thanks to the healing done to his brain. He's still trying to get use to having all of these emotions being less muted that it is influencing him.

Brian and Lisa though are traumatized and they're method of handling it seems to be focusing on other things. Brian on the Undersiders image and position as the "leader" and Lisa on how to handle Coil and Joe. This could just be their way of coping from going through what they did. Lisa was fused into the locker along with whatever was in it and Brian was spatial spread across another. And it has only been about a week since that has happened in story.

People that have been traumitized are not people that I would want to give advance tech to or leave on a moon base.

Also keep in mind the fact that we don't see everything! We are literally given small bits that aren't focused on Joe and the Celestial Forge showing the impact of his actions. Every time we have see the Undersiders it has been either in contact of the current "Mad Scientist that has exponential growth that does not seem to end" or in their interactions with each other involving the after math of Joe's actions.

We do not have reliable information about them outside of what Joe has along with tidbits to make a opinion about them.

I can't say much about Rachel since we haven't seen much interactions that were personal outside of Undersider meetings, including the one where she had her dogs attack him.

Alec though has talked personally with Joe and has been very up front with him. He's been honest about his desires and issues to the guy. Such as asking about if Joe healing him did anything to mess with his brain. A fact that is going to be shown during the next chapter I do believe.

Oh, and about how far he can throw them. Without including Reinforcement, Tetra, Ki, Aura, Mantra, Biotics, power armor, and any other form of enhancement I'm pretty sure Joe's base physical abilities are in the area of a Brute rating just from the combination of being a Greek Demi-God and Kenichi level Master. A level that allowed them to fight tanks and win.

And what he said.
 
Alright, here you go. This was LR's response when I discussed the subject of the Undersiders folding into the Celestial Forge.

Simply put, Joe doesn't have the reason to trust the Undersiders even if he cares for them, because what is the point of having them join when all Joe wants is to put them out of danger? And to be part of the Celestial Forge would be the only way they'll be seeing any part of the Workshop - heck, even with Uppercrust basically selling his soul to Apeiron, it'll take much longer for him to be invited in there. And that's with Joe knowing full well that Uppercrust has no ill intentions for him and was entirely being honest when he said that he would offer everything to Apeiron if that was what it took to be healed. In comparison, Joe has to actively manage the Undersiders so they don't get in trouble while Lisa and Brian believe that they need to manage Apeiron so he doesn't get in trouble. There's just no trust there outside of the debt Joe is holding over their heads to keep them straight.

It's not the part where Joe can't deal with them if it becomes necessary because if that was the case, then considering there's very little Joe can't handle at this point you'd think he'd shown off his Workshop already. It's both a security reason and an emotional reason - the Workshop is Joe's safe space, and only those he trusts fully can enter the wonderful world that the Workshop has become at this point. Even Aisha only managed to get her foot into the door by essentially lucking out in putting her foot in her mouth in such a way that Joe decided the only way he could trust Aisha with his secret identity was to make her fully aware of what she was getting into. But the Undersiders won't get that chance, because Joe already trusted them once and got burnt for it the moment Aegis got cut up in public with the weapons Joe trusted them with.
I see your point but since it's about joining the group outright rather then just providing them a safehouse and emergency transportation to it I'm going to ignore it. The only reason why I'm replying to it at all is so that nobody mistakes it for a response to myself.
 
I see your point but since it's about joining the group outright rather then just providing them a safehouse and emergency transportation to it I'm going to ignore it. The only reason why I'm replying to it at all is so that nobody mistakes it for a response to myself.
A safehouse possibly is what you were meaning? My mistake. Primarily because of all the posts that still pop up at times about them getting into Joe's Workshop.

I can see Joe maybe making a safehouse for them. But honestly I can see it happening after they make a big mess for him to deal with.

Oh it will be safe and very comfortable. But to quote the character Bob from the Dresden Files, "A Golden Cage is still a Cage."

And there is a very good chance that a few of them would see it like that. Doesn't matter if it has beds that feel like you are sleeping on a cloud while being gently massaged. Food that would make World Leaders fight to death over the scraps. Entertainment that is not available outside of there and the Forge itself.

Powers want to be used as well as causing "Mental Pollution", which only got a full confirmation when Ward was written and was only implied to be on only a few Shards if I remember right Wildbow's WOG about that. So I can see their powers reacting very negatively after a few days since any security Joe includes would be terrifying to anyone in it.

And the moon thing is still not plausiable due to needing to finish Sphere's Moon Base. Something that is going to have to wait realistically until the Simurgh is gone I do believe. I could be wrong after all though who knows how many groups have someone checking up on it just to be safe.
 
I see your point but since it's about joining the group outright rather then just providing them a safehouse and emergency transportation to it I'm going to ignore it. The only reason why I'm replying to it at all is so that nobody mistakes it for a response to myself.
If that's what they wanted, Joe could just provide them with a safehouse and even an emergency evac hot button if he wanted to. He has enough magical and technological protections that he could just make them a safehouse that is more secure than the Cauldron Base. With his Totally Spies tech, he could outfit the watches to be capable of making portals and emergency teleports.

But the safehouse wouldn't be in the Workshop, it would be somewhere else in Earth Bet or even other parallel Earths. And the emergency transportation will similarly not be in the form of a Key that would allow them to access the Workshop with any available door.
 
There's literally nothing stopping Joe from going to the moon base, actually. He doesn't need to take a spacecraft up, which is what the Simurgh would aggro on, because he can just teleport, or ride his personal space elevator weapon, or fly there on a specifically Simurgh proofed vehicle. And once he's there, he can put down a door, turn the key, and have full access to the Celestial Forge Workshop while on the moon.

It wouldn't even be that difficult. Now that he has anti-Simurgh rated anti-Thinker rated Stranger tech, nobody can actually stop him from going. But… aside from the nostalgia, it wouldn't really do anything for him. Sure, the novelty would be cool for and hour or two, but Sphere's moon base was unfinished and has probably gone through a lot of degradation over the years.
 
A safehouse possibly is what you were meaning? My mistake. Primarily because of all the posts that still pop up at times about them getting into Joe's Workshop.

I can see Joe maybe making a safehouse for them. But honestly I can see it happening after they make a big mess for him to deal with.

Oh it will be safe and very comfortable. But to quote the character Bob from the Dresden Files, "A Golden Cage is still a Cage."

And there is a very good chance that a few of them would see it like that. Doesn't matter if it has beds that feel like you are sleeping on a cloud while being gently massaged. Food that would make World Leaders fight to death over the scraps. Entertainment that is not available outside of there and the Forge itself.

Powers want to be used as well as causing "Mental Pollution", which only got a full confirmation when Ward was written and was only implied to be on only a few Shards if I remember right Wildbow's WOG about that. So I can see their powers reacting very negatively after a few days since any security Joe includes would be terrifying to anyone in it.

And the moon thing is still not plausiable due to needing to finish Sphere's Moon Base. Something that is going to have to wait realistically until the Simurgh is gone I do believe. I could be wrong after all though who knows how many groups have someone checking up on it just to be safe.
If that's what they wanted, Joe could just provide them with a safehouse and even an emergency evac hot button if he wanted to. He has enough magical and technological protections that he could just make them a safehouse that is more secure than the Cauldron Base. With his Totally Spies tech, he could outfit the watches to be capable of making portals and emergency teleports.

But the safehouse wouldn't be in the Workshop, it would be somewhere else in Earth Bet or even other parallel Earths. And the emergency transportation will similarly not be in the form of a Key that would allow them to access the Workshop with any available door.
I'm going to mention that I already brought up that Joes Warehouse has inherent security even if he chooses not to limit access via other methods, and thus that even with a Key they would only have as much access as he chose to allow, but not specifically reiterate it for you. Moving right along.

While Joe can do that those safe-houses would lack Fiat-backed transportation and protections so they would be second rate; do remember that the Key has Fiat-backed medical emergency transportation effects and that Joe wouldn't need to keep them around for anything beyond medical treatment.
There's literally nothing stopping Joe from going to the moon base, actually. He doesn't need to take a spacecraft up, which is what the Simurgh would aggro on, because he can just teleport, or ride his personal space elevator weapon, or fly there on a specifically Simurgh proofed vehicle. And once he's there, he can put down a door, turn the key, and have full access to the Celestial Forge Workshop while on the moon.

It wouldn't even be that difficult. Now that he has anti-Simurgh rated anti-Thinker rated Stranger tech, nobody can actually stop him from going. But… aside from the nostalgia, it wouldn't really do anything for him. Sure, the novelty would be cool for and hour or two, but Sphere's moon base was unfinished and has probably gone through a lot of degradation over the years.
Even if the hard vacuum didn't preserve it well enough and the taunting utility of using it to bait Mannequin wasn't there the nostalgia alone would be a perfectly acceptable reason to go there.
 
The Undersiders all have significant baggage that would make folding them into Joe's team difficult. He could just push past those issues and nobody would really question him at this point, but that's not going to change the fact that

(snip)

Joe would want to make sure the Undersiders are alright, but that will mostly mean giving them options outside of violent cape work.
It seems like Joe will eventually need a defined organization for the Celestial Forge's auxilia, the capes who work with the CF but aren't members, as a safe channel for his soft power. Otherwise, as much as he has technical finesse and the Forge has a great capacity for subtle action, his individual negotiations and contracts as Apeiron or the Forge carry the weight of a steel gorilla behind them and there's nothing he can do about it.
 
While Joe can do that those safe-houses would lack Fiat-backed transportation and protections so they would be second rate; do remember that the Key has Fiat-backed medical emergency transportation effects and that Joe wouldn't need to keep them around for anything beyond medical treatment.
First, Joe doesn't have Med. Bay yet. Second, Key's function to teleport a dead body to Med Bay is less "Fiat-backed medical emergency transportation" and more "Fiat-backed hearse services". Third, would you kindly remind us what was the wording on the perk providing Fiat-backed protection to the Warehouse.

All in all, the idea of giving a limited resource that not all member of the crew have, to someone outside the team is a strange one. Undersiders never asked for these and probably will not use it to the most. Med bay function is a moot point with watches's medical scanners, that will scream "BLOODY MURDER!!!" at the first sight of the injury. And what's the point of making houses in the Warehouse for them? It's not like they would agree to live there, they have lives too. Taylor is pretty comfortable living where she is, Lisa is exactly afraid of becoming dependent on Joe, Brian has a sister to worry about, Alec might agree, Rachel might agree if Joe would help with dogs, Aisha kinda similar to Taylor on this one, and Joe is not on the market for roommates either. Again, what is the point of housing argument? And don's say "protection" or "transportation", Joe can achieve both without locking Undersiders in custom build cells or giving up limited key resources. Pun intended.

It seems like Joe will eventually need a defined organization for the Celestial Forge's auxilia, the capes who work with the CF but aren't members, as a safe channel for his soft power. Otherwise, as much as he has technical finesse and the Forge has a great capacity for subtle action, his individual negotiations and contracts as Apeiron or the Forge carry the weight of a steel gorilla behind them and there's nothing he can do about it.
Uppercrust: "Everything."
 
It seems like Joe will eventually need a defined organization for the Celestial Forge's auxilia, the capes who work with the CF but aren't members, as a safe channel for his soft power. Otherwise, as much as he has technical finesse and the Forge has a great capacity for subtle action, his individual negotiations and contracts as Apeiron or the Forge carry the weight of a steel gorilla behind them and there's nothing he can do about it.
Fortunately, he has fiat-backed divine gifts of skills in administration and bureaucracy.

When he needs it, he'll know. When he creates it, it will be an inspiring model for all other organisations to aspire to.

Third, would you kindly remind us what was the wording on the perk providing Fiat-backed protection to the Warehouse.

From Chapter 74, Hard Talk. "Force Wall" seems to be the main fiat-backed protection (preventing enemies from entering the warehouse), but while fiat-backed as impenetrable, it is explicitly possible to bypass. For example, Trickster might be able to swap people in/out of the Workshop with line-of-sight — although, then Detainment should hopefully kick in.
Security System (Personal Reality) Free:
Anybody coming in and out of your Personal Reality is now checked for any authorization you've given them to access it; and should anything about said authorization (or a lack of it) raise any flags in the system, then you will receive a warning about it. This allows you to define just what sorts of authorization different individuals can have to access your Personality Reality, anything from No Access through Temporary Access and Limited Access to Unlimited Access is possible. All this does is notify you. It does not stop them on its own. A Keyholder's Access cannot be limited by the Security System. Only hand out Keys to those you trust implicitly

Detainment (Personal Reality) 300:
This Security System Upgrade ensures that anybody without correct access authorization who attempts to break into your warehouse automatically gets detained in temporary cells, which are accessed through temporary doors in your Entrance Hall. The cells are not fiat-backed to hold everyone. If you'd have to exert yourself to fight someone, then the cells aren't going to hold them for long, at least without any upgrades. Detainment will attempt to work on anything that manifests anywhere in your warehouse without proper clearance… as well as anything that had proper clearance and is now clearly a threat. A Keyholder cannot be detained.

Force Wall (Personal Reality) 200:
This adds a force-field to the entrances and exits to your Personal Reality. Nothing unauthorized can pass through these force-fields. The field is fully permeable to anything authorized. A Keyholder's Access cannot be blocked by these fields. Be aware, some enemies might conceivably be able to enter your Personal Reality without technically 'passing through' these force-fields. I don't know, but don't assume the Force Wall is utterly infallible. It is also potentially possible that you or your companions might bring something seemingly harmless into your Reality that turns out to be some kind of threat.
 
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"All this does is notify you. It does not stop them on its own. A Keyholder's Access cannot be limited by the Security System. Only hand out Keys to those you trust implicitly" "The cells are not fiat-backed to hold everyone." "A Keyholder cannot be detained." " A Keyholder's Access cannot be blocked by these fields." "I don't know, but don't assume the Force Wall is utterly infallible. It is also potentially possible that you or your companions might bring something seemingly harmless into your Reality that turns out to be some kind of threat."


With those caveats, decision of giving Key to Taylor is not just of questionable utility, it's utterly depraved of sense.
 
In addition to Force Wall, Detainment and the free Security System alarm, the Workshop still has the old SSS black-box security system that teleports intruders into the Bay:
I also installed a fallback security system from Simple Scientific Solution. Like all the tech from that power it was insanely advanced while also being somehow irreverent in its application. I chose the option that would teleport any intruder that bypassed the force field into the nearest large body of water. I elected to leave out the feature that would also stamp the word 'idiot' onto their forehead during transit.
 
In addition to Force Wall, Detainment and the free Security System alarm, the Workshop still has the old SSS black-box security system that teleports intruders into the Bay:
True, but that didn't fall under the aegis of "fiat backed protection".

With those caveats, decision of giving Key to Taylor is not just of questionable utility, it's utterly depraved of sense.
Worse; if Taylor enters the workshop, she's past SSS's Privacy Curtain.

Meaning, she can detect and connect to the Monster Hunter bug, (and, slightly less problematically, the Splatoon Snails.)
 
First, Joe doesn't have Med. Bay yet. Second, Key's function to teleport a dead body to Med Bay is less "Fiat-backed medical emergency transportation" and more "Fiat-backed hearse services". Third, would you kindly remind us what was the wording on the perk providing Fiat-backed protection to the Warehouse.

All in all, the idea of giving a limited resource that not all member of the crew have, to someone outside the team is a strange one. Undersiders never asked for these and probably will not use it to the most. Med bay function is a moot point with watches's medical scanners, that will scream "BLOODY MURDER!!!" at the first sight of the injury. And what's the point of making houses in the Warehouse for them? It's not like they would agree to live there, they have lives too. Taylor is pretty comfortable living where she is, Lisa is exactly afraid of becoming dependent on Joe, Brian has a sister to worry about, Alec might agree, Rachel might agree if Joe would help with dogs, Aisha kinda similar to Taylor on this one, and Joe is not on the market for roommates either. Again, what is the point of housing argument? And don's say "protection" or "transportation", Joe can achieve both without locking Undersiders in custom build cells or giving up limited key resources. Pun intended.
You are conflating my suggestion of using the Keys emergency transportation system to transport Taylor in a emergency, which I now realize would have to include resurrection services and possibly the use of their Key as a Lich reliquary since the Medical Bay was a specific place rather then any bay that was medical, with providing permanent housing which I am most certainly not suggesting and never was.
Fortunately, he has fiat-backed divine gifts of skills in administration and bureaucracy.

When he needs it, he'll know. When he creates it, it will be an inspiring model for all other organisations to aspire to.



From Chapter 74, Hard Talk. "Force Wall" seems to be the main fiat-backed protection (preventing enemies from entering the warehouse), but while fiat-backed as impenetrable, it is explicitly possible to bypass. For example, Trickster might be able to swap people in/out of the Workshop with line-of-sight — although, then Detainment should hopefully kick in.
Detainment is actually the one I was thinking of; the effect is outright Fiat-backed to get anything that shouldn't be in there into a holding-cell. Anything following after the emergency transportation? Goes into a pre-determiend location no matter what.

Garment is under the restoration effect of the Warehouse but Taylor isn't so even if Taylor wasn't far more likely to throw herself into the sort of effect that would require it it would make more sense to do. Especially when Garment would almost certainly not mind being transported by portal rather then needing to use a actual door. She'd probably prefer a portal system even if she had a Key.
With those caveats, decision of giving Key to Taylor is not just of questionable utility, it's utterly depraved of sense.
The Force Wall seems to easy to bypass for anything worth worrying about, and Taylor too easy to contain and transport via non-Fiat means, for those concerns to be worth acting upon.
True but noting short of a annihilator cape with auto defense against teleportation can work around that, and not a singe one exist in worm
Even anti-teleportation effects would probably fail against it; while keeping them in those cells is another matter the transportation to them has no exceptions at all.
 
You are conflating my suggestion of using the Keys emergency transportation system to transport Taylor in a emergency, which I now realize would have to include resurrection services and possibly the use of their Key as a Lich reliquary since the Medical Bay was a specific place rather then any bay that was medical, with providing permanent housing
No I'm not. You're fully capable of discerning when I was talking about giving Taylor a Key and when I went with housing questions. Could've at least address the former. Or at least read it. Again, no "emergency transportation system" without Med Bay. Whatever you do with the Key, turn it into a reliquary, phylactery or brocton fried chickenery, it will not transport Taylor's corpse to the Workshop. And if your new idea does not involve transportation into Workshop, then why even use the Key? It's useless without the holder's will. And by that I mean - no, you can't build a machine that automatically opens doors to Workshop around the holder. "These keys attune to whomever you give them to and cannot be used by anyone other than them".


The Force Wall seems to easy to bypass for anything worth worrying about, and Taylor too easy to contain and transport via non-Fiat means, for those concerns to be worth acting upon.
Again, Key is useless for Taylor. With your conditions, she will be utterly depraved of any clearance to the workshop, and the only usage you latched onto will not even function until Joe gets a different perk. AND it can be easily replicated using Joe's capabilities. Without wasting a valuable asset on someone who will not be using it.

Is goal of your suggestion to waste the Key? Because it is all it would achieve. Well, that and broken trust with Taylor. Giving a girl a key to your place and then "contain" her when she gets in. Very welcoming.
 
Even anti-teleportation effects would probably fail against it; while keeping them in those cells is another matter the transportation to them has no exceptions at all.
I'm not talking about the cell teleportation I'm talking about the teleport to nearest body of water home defense built by SSS the same power that blocked out Simurgh and shard peeping by putting up blinders to get basic privacy in the early stages of the quest
 
I'm not talking about the cell teleportation I'm talking about the teleport to nearest body of water home defense built by SSS the same power that blocked out Simurgh and shard peeping by putting up blinders to get basic privacy in the early stages of the quest
Ah yes, the Washu tech. And keep in mind that was admitted to being a shower curtain if I remember correctly. Might spend tomorrow rereading on AO3.

You know, after going over practical reasons, beside it's Joe's house, to keep the Undersiders out I remembered something that is a massive threat to the people in that world just by existing.

The Imulsion Pump that Joe had gotten earlier in the story. You know, the stuff that lead to creating the Locust threat?

Has Joe actually improved it's security at all or is it just sealed away with some walls he had built before? Because that stuff is way to dangerous to be let anywhere close to available. The only thing worse is a Matrix that does not have the same standard of Nanomachines as it currently does.

In a sense of a viral plague being unleashed upon the world.
 
No I'm not. You're fully capable of discerning when I was talking about giving Taylor a Key and when I went with housing questions. Could've at least address the former. Or at least read it. Again, no "emergency transportation system" without Med Bay. Whatever you do with the Key, turn it into a reliquary, phylactery or brocton fried chickenery, it will not transport Taylor's corpse to the Workshop. And if your new idea does not involve transportation into Workshop, then why even use the Key? It's useless without the holder's will. And by that I mean - no, you can't build a machine that automatically opens doors to Workshop around the holder. "These keys attune to whomever you give them to and cannot be used by anyone other than them".



Again, Key is useless for Taylor. With your conditions, she will be utterly depraved of any clearance to the workshop, and the only usage you latched onto will not even function until Joe gets a different perk. AND it can be easily replicated using Joe's capabilities. Without wasting a valuable asset on someone who will not be using it.

Is goal of your suggestion to waste the Key? Because it is all it would achieve. Well, that and broken trust with Taylor. Giving a girl a key to your place and then "contain" her when she gets in. Very welcoming.
If it's easily replicated then it's not valuable and it will transport itself in the event of the person it's given to dropping dead so if it has their soul in it, either constantly or upon their deaths, then it'll transport their soul into the Warehouse upon their death; Fiat-backed emergency restoration/resurrection measure.

Also yes when you have guests over you prevent them from going through your private shit and into your private areas.
I'm not talking about the cell teleportation I'm talking about the teleport to nearest body of water home defense built by SSS the same power that blocked out Simurgh and shard peeping by putting up blinders to get basic privacy in the early stages of the quest
Well I'm talking about effects of Detained; the Washu-tech security would be good and wouldn't require giving the Key to anyone, and I'd even recommend Joe providing everyone else with emergency teleportation devices to safehouses outfitted with resurrection suites, but it would also not provide Fiat-backed security to a soul-retrieval mechanism and, as cold as it might sound, since Garment already has a Fiat-backed resurrection mechanic, and Joe can make a different access mechanisms for her (he's got portal-projection devices and can use arbitrary doorways as range-boosters for them), the Key should go to someone else.

It's cold and utterly devoid of sentiments of affection, and would even display a sentiment of non-affection, but it would be a preventative measure against harm. When measures against harm and displays of affection are mutually exclusive you don't get rid f the measure against harm.

Speaking of which he still needs to get some samples of time-manipulating Parahumans at some point; damage reversion is important.
Ah yes, the Washu tech. And keep in mind that was admitted to being a shower curtain if I remember correctly. Might spend tomorrow rereading on AO3.

You know, after going over practical reasons, beside it's Joe's house, to keep the Undersiders out I remembered something that is a massive threat to the people in that world just by existing.

The Imulsion Pump that Joe had gotten earlier in the story. You know, the stuff that lead to creating the Locust threat?

Has Joe actually improved it's security at all or is it just sealed away with some walls he had built before? Because that stuff is way to dangerous to be let anywhere close to available. The only thing worse is a Matrix that does not have the same standard of Nanomachines as it currently does.

In a sense of a viral plague being unleashed upon the world.
It's not that much more dangerous then some other Parahuman effects; if it got out it wouldn't even need to be permanently contains because a few Tinkers would be able to disrupt and probably harness its functions.
 
Speaking of which he still needs to get some samples of time-manipulating Parahumans at some point; damage reversion is important.

It's not that much more dangerous then some other Parahuman effects; if it got out it wouldn't even need to be permanently contains because a few Tinkers would be able to disrupt and probably harness its functions.
I can agree about samples of power usage of temporal based parahuman abilities to study. Would be a help when it came to removing Grey Boy's mark on the world. Plus time stop would be glorious even if all he can do at first is Kamen Rider Kabuto's Clock Up.

And the thing about Imulsion is while some Tinkers could use it, such as Blasto, it is still technically a hazardous material known for causing mutations like the T-Virus does.

Some people would love to have it while others would abuse it and screw over quite a few people. So personally, I say keep it locked up.

Besides, does Joe even need it with everything he has already?
 
If it's easily replicated then it's not valuable and it will transport itself in the event of the person it's given to dropping dead so if it has their soul in it, either constantly or upon their deaths, then it'll transport their soul into the Warehouse upon their death; Fiat-backed emergency restoration/resurrection measure.
Key can't be replicated. I never said it. Nothing said it. Where did you even get it from? I said that key's hearse services can be replicated, not the key itself. And those hearse services are not key's primary function.

And the only thing that fiat-backed to teleport is a key. Soul would not be transported, the same way nailing a board to the key will not lead to key starting to appear with a board. Key's retrieval function is for the key, not for the dirt that got stuck to it.

And no, modifying the key so that soul is a part of it does not work either. I'm mean it could, there is nothing that prevents key from being modified, but if author does not crave a cheap cheese, then most logical way to implement this function of 50 cp item (Low-cost items tend to be more restraint to cheesing in jumpchain.) is for the key to revert to default state whenever it teleports. What I'm trying to say - not in this story, or else Joe's Key would've been modified into something more useful a long time ago.

Also yes when you have guests over you prevent them from going through your private shit and into your private areas.
Yes, that's why I don't give them a key that explicitly gives unlimited access to my house.

but it would also not provide Fiat-backed security to a soul-retrieval mechanism
Key would not either. There is nothing about it's perk that states that it retrieves souls of holders. Any soul retrieval mechanic Joe can bolt on the Key will not be any more secure than on any other item. It can be even less secure, because Key might just leave a soul behind when teleporting.

It's cold and utterly devoid of sentiments of affection, and would even display a sentiment of non-affection, but it would be a preventative measure against harm. When measures against harm and displays of affection are mutually exclusive you don't get rid f the measure against harm.
It's amazing. Everything you just wrote... All of it... All of it doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand. No-one said that Joe should not give Key to Tay-Tay just because she will not appreciate it. We are talking about in whose hands Key will see more use, not who will appreciate it as a gift more. Displays of affection argument have nothing to do with conversation, what hole did you even pulled it out off?

And Key provides no preventative measures against harm. I'm baffled that I have to write it, but retrieval of the corps is not in fact a preventative measure against harm.

Joe can make a different access mechanisms for her
Did you miss the part where using the Keys is the only way to access Workshop? The exact reason why Keys are valuable? You might have. Again, at the moment, no one except Joe can get into Workshop whenever they want. Giving that ability to Taylor, out of all people, and then just stopping her from using it, is just a waste.

No, seriously, giving Taylor the Key would only lead to Taylor obtaining a key shaped paper weight. Key's secondary function that you are banking on does not even work. Key's primary function is to give access to Workshop. Your insistent suggestion for Joe to not use this function is a very weird desire for perceived benefits at the cost of real opportunity. Not a cold logic you try to present it as.
 
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