Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

The Shallow · Mar 18, 2022

OtteryLexa said:
Also he has that perk that allows him to merge two pieces of tech together which could be relevant to the discussion.

Not for AIs, it isn't. The perk explicitly says trying to mix two AI-controlled devices together will cause problems:

Hybridization Theory (Zoids: Legacy) 400:
So one day you had a bit of spare time after your daily Zoid admiration hour. After taking a close look at your favorite Gojulas and your favorite Mad Thunder, you decided that if the Gojulas could wield the Mad Thunder's Magnesser Drills like an arm weapon, you could probably reenact that scene from the show you watched two days back on the professor's hi-def television.
Those mechanics can slap on parts and scavenge however they like. You can literally merge two machines together into one, with twice the processing power as before. Mind you, Zoids typically won't respond well to suddenly sharing a body with another core and another mind, but you'll have ethical uses for this...right?
For most mundane machinery, you don't need any power source besides your own, but be careful that should you make your machine too big, the internal power supply might not be enough to feed it.

Titan Cores were compared to Zoids by Joe, but then again maybe the Titans would form a gestalt intelligence to help their pilot or smth, especially if put together early in their development.
Joe creating 25 Sparks at a time and turning the titans into Transformers would be fun to see though
This makes me think of him using his tech to let them transform into human forms ala Survey.
like just imagine Leviathan shows up and a bunch of "civilians" suddenly turn into robot soldiers and march towards the bay. Also add the FL souls to this army.
PRT starts shitting bricks and crying.

ExploerTM said:
But he doesnt have access to it and - dont quote me on that - isnt it harder to access the Shardspace than to access parallel Earth? Not to mention, Shardspace very much is a hostile environment.

Same difficulty, really. Would be harder for Shardspace if he didn't already have a foothold there. Cybertronian tech covers alternate dimensions- transwarp is the space between such realities. Theoretically, Joe could do some transwarp tunneling to dig into Shardspace or an alt earth, would just need to know it's possible, which he doesn't exactly atm.

AmberSlime · Mar 18, 2022

It occurs to me that the only reason Joe is unaware of the connection between Aisha and Brian is that he's never learned what Brian's last name is and I find that chuckle-worthy.

_AlphaBetSouP · Mar 18, 2022

The Shallow said:
Not for AIs, it isn't. The perk explicitly says trying to mix two AI-controlled devices together will cause problems:

Titan Cores were compared to Zoids by Joe, but then again maybe the Titans would form a gestalt intelligence to help their pilot or smth, especially if put together early in their development.
Joe creating 25 Sparks at a time and turning the titans into Transformers would be fun to see though
This makes me think of him using his tech to let them transform into human forms ala Survey.
like just imagine Leviathan shows up and a bunch of "civilians" suddenly turn into robot soldiers and march towards the bay. Also add the FL souls to this army.
PRT starts shitting bricks and crying.

Same difficulty, really. Would be harder for Shardspace if he didn't already have a foothold there. Cybertronian tech covers alternate dimensions- transwarp is the space between such realities. Theoretically, Joe could do some transwarp tunneling to dig into Shardspace or an alt earth, would just need to know it's possible, which he doesn't exactly atm.

The perk says a Spark makes machines its implanted into sentient (pretty sure it should say sapient but meh, most people don't know the difference) and it's mind has to develop after that, implying that it's only "born" once it's been implanted in the machine, so it could potentially be fused with the Titan AI

The Shallow · Mar 18, 2022

AGiantB said:
The perk says a Spark makes machines its implanted into sentient (pretty sure it should say sapient but meh, most people don't know the difference) and it's mind has to develop after that, implying that it's only "born" once it's been implanted in the machine, so it could potentially be fused with the Titan AI

...I said that I would be interested in seeing Joe use the sparks to turn the Titans into Transformers, I don't know why you thought that I meant to exclude the AI? TBH I don't think even it would work without some base form of VI.

SoulShdw · Mar 18, 2022

PrinceOfDoom said:
Hopefully things will turn out okay there. But I definitely feel like Joe is going to get a kick in the head when Survey identifies Parian. Which she easily will with her sensor suite.

Definitely going to be painful for Joe. And I think Sabah and he are bound for an eventual serious discussion. I hope they can be friends after this. But considering the relationship both have with their triggers and eachother, it might be best to avoid one another.

I mean... that's making an assumption that Joe will assume he was the cause of her trigger event. As for Joe and Sabah having a serious discussion... I don't really see it happening. One, there would be no way for Joe to do so without essentially forcing himself into Sabah's life again, which he's not really the type to do again after what happened. Joe is no longer a student at the college, and from what we've read, really has no intention to return. There is little likelihood for them to cross path's casually, as they run in different spheres - Joe hasn't mentioned a single friend from his at college, so it's not like he's going to receive an invite to hang out and then meet up with her randomly - moreso with the city still recovering. Which means he would have to explicitly seek Sabah out, which is crazy stalker like behavior considering how their last encounter ended - something Aisha or one of his clones would likely point out.

No, the Parian/Garment drama will occur, but I doubt Joe will get involved, or even that it will really involve Joe at all. He might feel bad about it, but I doubt we're going to see some sort of friendship reforming. That thread is likely cut, and won't be retied unless something drastic happens. Even if Joe starts 'working' at Garment's shop as a legitimate job and Parian runs across him there, Sabah won't act on it because she, in her mind, would be outing herself.

Although at some point there was discussion about a crossing paths sort of thing with Laserdream, which would be interesting considering when she met Apeiron in costume, her whole team was basically terrified of him. The... I can't think of the word - when two conflicting views collide in someone's mind on the same subject - will be interesting for Joe.

dragon_cloud16 · Mar 18, 2022

Well this popped into my mind so here's a continuation with...

Things Fleet are no Longer Allowed to be Involved With

Fleet is no longer allowed to race in the street's of Brockton Bay. And please explain to me how you manage to acquire all of those cars when Survey was not looking.
I have respect for the National Guard and am happy you do as well. That does not mean though you can teach them better ways to drive their vehicles including pulling a WHEELIE WITH A TANK!
The restraint about racing in Brockton Bay is no being expanded to New York City. And please return the armored transport truck to the PRT. It does not matter that they gave it to you after teaching a class on high speed pursuit that increase their effectiveness by 90%.
I do appluad you for clearing out the Boat Graveyard with the help of Matrix. I do not accept the fact that you two restored some of them into different classes of warships for your usage. Nor does the fact that Survey managed to help you accomplish this legally help.
You cannot play Battleship with Lethe using miniature warships in the Bay. Nor can Assault and any of the Wards join you as well.
You are not the Stig's Superhero cousin. You are not related to the Stig at all. So please explain this to the host of Top Gear.
Why do you think it is a good idea to have a ice cream truck that can turn into a large robot when you have access to a "Gundam?"
I will not build you a sports car that can shrink down into the size of a book. Just use the extradimensional storage system like the rest of us.
Brockton Bay does not need you to build it a advance train system for transporting people. I do not care if it would cut down gas emissions along with being powered by a clean energy system.
Boston and New York welcomes you to construct such a system though with a review pending may allow one to be included in other cities such as Atlanta.
I congratulate you for ending the battle against the Simurgh so quickly with the Mega Deus. I do not thank you though for damaging the Protectorate Base when the shockwave knocked it over onto the bay.
You cannot lead a army of transforming vehicles into battle against the Teeth. It would be overkill.
You cannot lead a army of robotic dinosaurs to fight against the Slaughterhouse 9 either. Matrix and Proto Aima are discussing between the two who gets to fight Crawler after all.
There is to be no race track added to the Celestial Forge base so you can race the Stig and his extended family. If you just wait, there is a good chance we can find need for a superior one that you can use afterwards.
Please return Armsmaster's motorcycle. I do not care that he was not driving it properly or maintaining it to our standards.
You cannot train members of the Air Force to join us in a joint "Veritech Squadron." The PRT has limited what technology is available from organizations like us that can be sold.
That does sadly extend to Law Enforcement being given or sold modified police cruisers that are better armored, armed, secured, and have a superior engine then what is available.
Please stop being chased by Armsmaster for the sole reason of "having a better bike then you." We know that is true since we have "created" a copy of his and proceeded to upgrade it to our standards. And no, you can not give or sale it to him.
Explain to me why you have cars with tally marks on them for every villain you have run over with it.
Everyone thanks you for helping to design and construct the roller coaster that the city now has. I do not thank you though for sudden demand from multiple theme parks to hire us to design them such rides and attractions.

Guyman · Mar 18, 2022

Rhyasial said:
Seeing her life's work destroyed, she'll snap

As an aside: I'm pretty sure we saw Parian posting in a Canon P.H.O. omake on a Garment thread - someone said something about one of Parian's things (I think it was someone blaming Parian for what was being seen, Idk, fashion is one of the least understood facets of art for me) and one poster - presumably Parian - responded with a correction that came with the emotions of indignation and seemingly bitterness: bitterness I assume, since here Parian is, the fashion cape, not too good not too bad... AND THEN a Case 53 appears in the same city, with both superior skills as a fashionista, a seemingly more versatile and powerful power (Parian had trouble controlling fabric, due to the dissimilarity to skin) and overall more popular - completely eclipsing Parian and threatening to make her completely obsolete.
I'd be just a little bit bitter in Parian's position as well.

readerdreamer · Mar 18, 2022

Guyman said:
As an aside: I'm pretty sure we saw Parian posting in a Canon P.H.O. omake on a Garment thread - someone said something about one of Parian's things (I think it was someone blaming Parian for what was being seen, Idk, fashion is one of the least understood facets of art for me) and one poster - presumably Parian - responded with a correction that came with the emotions of indignation and seemingly bitterness: bitterness I assume, since here Parian is, the fashion cape, not too good not too bad... AND THEN a Case 53 appears in the same city, with both superior skills as a fashionista, a seemingly more versatile and powerful power (Parian had trouble controlling fabric, due to the dissimilarity to skin) and overall more popular - completely eclipsing Parian and threatening to make her completely obsolete.
I'd be just a little bit bitter in Parian's position as well.

If it's BB_Fashionista from Garment's debut thread all the way back to Chapter 14, considering BB_Fashionista criticized Parian's choices for a Fall 2010 line, it's unlikely that it's Parian's private account. No, the context is closer to "someone with Opinions on fashion had Opinions on Parian and couldn't believe that people were comparing Garment, someone who was clearly a different designer, to her skills."

But yeah, WoG on the subject is that Parian is very bitter about Garment. The fact that Uppercrust invited her after talking to Garment (implying she was second best compared to a new cape) apparently made her both frustrated at the comparison and relieved that Uppercrust, and by extension the Elite, wasn't putting that much attention on her.

dragon_cloud16 · Mar 18, 2022

readerdreamer said:
But yeah, WoG on the subject is that Parian is very bitter about Garment. The fact that Uppercrust invited her after talking to Garment (implying she was second best compared to a new cape) apparently made her both frustrated at the comparison and relieved that Uppercrust, and by extension the Elite, wasn't putting that much attention on her.

And then ten minutes of spending time with Garment is going to lead to her either finding out that she is a loveable pair of gloves and dress or a place to shoot all of her hatred and rage.

Because let's face it, when it comes to ability as a business that Garment has her beat by well over a mile when it comes to production and skill.

Nimeroni · Mar 18, 2022

The Shallow said:
Joe creating 25 Sparks at a time and turning the titans into Transformers would be fun to see though

Joe explicitely can't create sparks with Master Builder.

SoulShdw said:
Even if Joe starts 'working' at Garment's shop as a legitimate job and Parian runs across him there, Sabah won't act on it because she, in her mind, would be outing herself.

Which would be in line with the kind of dramatic irony this fic thrive on.

Parian: "I can't reveal myself to my crazy sorta-ex ! But what if he recognize me ?"
Meanwhile, the crazy sorta-ex: "hmmm, I wonder what kind of S class threat I'll get next... I still have empty space on my bingo card"

dragon_cloud16 · Mar 18, 2022

Nimeroni said:
Parian: "I can't reveal myself to my crazy sorta-ex ! But what if he recognize me ?"
Meanwhile, the crazy sorta-ex: "hmmm, I wonder what kind of S class threat I'll get next..."

Joe: "Okay, I replaced everything that Shatterbird could affect already with material that she can't control in this neighborhood. I got all of the mechs the same and ready to be deployed. Survey is running tracking on the Teeth so their not near right now. Aisha does have lessons soon so what should I teach her next?"

Just a normal day in the mind of Aperion right there.

dragon_cloud16 · Mar 18, 2022

AmberSlime said:
Still two clones, they last for three hours I think, with 20% times of 36 minutes. Once Mixing Mixtures is got, we'll have 8 clones that last for fifteen.

You know, I just thought about this and realized that Joe will be dreading this since if they can last for 15 hours then they can get into all kinds of shenanigans with their 20% time. Which could lead to this.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNPW2wZ4D2s

readerdreamer · Mar 18, 2022

Nimeroni said:
Joe explicitely can't create sparks with Master Builder.

It's in reference to the All Spark's Chosen perk, which does give Joe the ability to make Sparks in addition to a WIS and CHA boost.

AmberSlime · Mar 18, 2022

readerdreamer said:
It's in reference to the All Spark's Chosen perk, which does give Joe the ability to make Sparks in addition to a WIS and CHA boost.

Hm. WIS. Rare stat, round these parts. Even Thinkers don't have much of it. Then again, is WIS really that much better than INT?

readerdreamer · Mar 18, 2022

AmberSlime said:
Hm. WIS. Rare stat, round these parts. Even Thinkers don't have much of it.

Of course they don't. Having a shard is an instant -50 WIS demerit due to intentional sabotage.

Nimeroni · Mar 18, 2022

readerdreamer said:
Of course they don't. Having a shard is an instant -50 WIS demerit due to intentional sabotage.

Shards intentionally choose people with low WIS to start with.

AmberSlime · Mar 18, 2022

Nimeroni said:
Shards intentionally choose people with low WIS to start with.

goodness me. Terrible min-maxers, the lot of them.

Narsauce · Mar 18, 2022

I mean, there is a reason for it. The WIS demerit is necessary for a Shard's playstyle, as most Triggers can be solved with good social support, therapy, and other similar methods. Without the WIS stat demerit, hosts might stop seeing everything as a nail and their power as a hammer.

BarbaCoPut · Mar 18, 2022

dragon_cloud16 said:
When Survey was not looking

Everyone knows that Survey is always looking, she let them do it

dragon_cloud16 said:
You cannot play Battleship with Lethe using miniature warships in the Bay. Nor can Assault and any of the Wards join you as well.

I wonder if you read Banks' "Surface Detail", the was a great boat game played in that story

Kalmathon · Mar 18, 2022

Narsauce said:
I mean, there is a reason for it. The WIS demerit is necessary for a Shard's playstyle, as most Triggers can be solved with good social support, therapy, and other similar methods. Without the WIS stat demerit, hosts might stop seeing everything as a nail and their power as a hammer.

I mean, there are so many examples of the shards choosing hosts with low WIS. Two great examples are Tattletale and Bakuda.

We have Tattletale, because who in their right mind tries to play a know-it-all against Jack Slash, and Bakuda, because she decides to attempt to mass-terrorize like, the whole east coast.

Oh sure she's smart for all her contingencies, but pure luck, and probably contessa made sure she didn't kill a ward, and have the Triumvirate drop on her head, or get kill-ordered.

I mean she got killed by lung in the birdcage, so death was the most likely option anyway.

There is so many examples of low WIS and every host being a parahuman, of being near a parahuman. I mean look at cauldron.

And all to collect that juicy, delectable [DATA]

Guyman · Mar 18, 2022

readerdreamer said:
But yeah, WoG on the subject is that Parian is very bitter about Garment. The fact that Uppercrust invited her after talking to Garment (implying she was second best compared to a new cape) apparently made her both frustrated at the comparison and relieved that Uppercrust, and by extension the Elite, wasn't putting that much attention on her.

Thank you comrade.

dragon_cloud16 said:
And then ten minutes of spending time with Garment is going to lead to her either finding out that she is a loveable pair of gloves and dress or a place to shoot all of her hatred and rage.

Since WoG is being talked about - does anyone around know why/how Sabah was able to suppress her conflict drive so much? I'm wondering - simply because deep bitterness plus a conflict drive equals bad stuff.

LightLan · Mar 18, 2022

Guyman said:
Since WoG is being talked about - does anyone around know why/how Sabah was able to suppress her conflict drive so much? I'm wondering - simply because deep bitterness plus a conflict drive equals bad stuff.

The conflict drive is somewhat overblown in fanon.

It's more that shards tend to select for people already prone to conflict more than injecting a drive for it.
And sometimes they get it wrong.

There have been several capes found by Kephri that never went out at all.

Even Taylor managed to hold back for three months. And I wouldn't call her conflict shy.

Guyman · Mar 18, 2022

LightLan said:
It's more that shards tend to select for people already prone to conflict more than injecting a drive for it.
And sometimes they get it wrong.

Ah, thank you.

Going forward - does anyone know if Wildbow intended for "Conflict drive" originally and simply changed his Word of God, or if he intended this "Shards got it wrong" from the beginning?

Cause I remember seeing people talking about how in reaction to fans sympathy for Panacea in Worm he changed the Word of God when he began to write Ward. Not sure if its true, but I'm not surprised if it is.

Narsauce · Mar 18, 2022

Guyman said:
Ah, thank you.

Going forward - does anyone know if Wildbow intended for "Conflict drive" originally and simply changed his Word of God, or if he intended this "Shards got it wrong" from the beginning?

Cause I remember seeing people talking about how in reaction to fans sympathy for Panacea in Worm he changed the Word of God when he began to write Ward. Not sure if its true, but I'm not surprised if it is.

The Panacea thing is, as far as I know, true. From what little I remember, all the character development Panacea went through at the end of Worm kinda just disappeared and she went back to being an unrepentant bitch in Ward. I'm also pretty sure Wildbow edited Worm's later stages to justify Ward's Panacea, but don't quote me on that.

As for the Conflict Drive, honestly, I have no idea. It's a good way to explain why most capes actively choose to engage in conflict that stimulates their powers. That being said, there might be individuals who are more resistant for one reason or another, and Sabah might be one, or some shards didn't implement conflict drives. Then again, who knows, Wildbow could've just thought the Conflict Drive was a cool idea and went with it, ignoring the previous precedent where it didn't apply.

Transreal Cloud · Mar 18, 2022

AGiantB said:
Do we know if the Titanfall perk came with the Monarch Titan and all the Titan upgrades/mods (Titans in general, not specifically Monarchs upgrade core) from the game?

No Joe got the medium titan not the monarch.

AmberSlime said:
According to the reference google sheet, What's This Do? comes with some Titan related freebies, but it's mostly just the Core ability by the looks of things. Joe would get... two levels of Link to Pilot, I think? that means he would essentially have an improved neural link between him and a titan.

Thanks for the reminder there's a couple things I had forgotten to update.

midnight77 said:
Hey, where can if find more on the Celestial Forge? I'm interested in writing a fic with it.

I not so humbly recommend my reference document

XenonPrime said:
Either way, the top tier of that technology tree is pretty terrifying, especially given what they can cram into a rifle.

Based on how Joe reacted to the perk I don't think it comes with Alpha Centauri tech. I've asked Lord for clarification on Ao3 though.

Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

Shallow, Yet Deep

Shallow, Yet Deep

Things Fleet are no Longer Allowed to be Involved With​

The Crucible Shitlord

Voluta indomita

The Crucible Shitlord

Things Fleet are no Longer Allowed to be Involved With