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Paths of Civilization

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PyroTechno said:
How, exactly, is it above the law to ask for land reform? Did we explicitly make a law against that at some point?

Distribute Land enjoys broad support across society, as every faction is either for it, unaffected, or ambivalent. If it fails, the Ymaryn aren't elves, they're Tau, now with an Ethereal Caste composed entirely of salt and congealed metagaming.
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You have not even read what I am arguing about, have you?
I am not annoyed by DL, I am pissed off by new trait; specifically, by bolded parts:
Academia Nut said:
Life of Arete -> Divinely Glorious Elites (Maxed Development)
A well lead life is one of excellence in all things at all levels, from the stitch of cloth to prowess on the battlefield to skill in oration. The best and finest is thus demanded of and by all to show their virtue and honour, in the knowledge that those that rise to the top will be supported by excellence below.
Pros: Increase Martial gain from raising elite units; bonus Culture, Tech and/or Mysticism for certain actions; effect of criticals and doubles greatly increased; ruling faction gains an additional faction power
Cons: Increased potential Martial loss in fighting, increased social stratification, increased costs, dominant faction can no longer be suppressed, -3 Culture/ turn (need more academies)
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It elevates a biggest faction above suppression; which means, narratively, that they are above the king's ability to tell them to fuck off. This is quite explicitely "above social order" situation and is the thing which annoys me.
DL is quite bearable with good enough internal police, justice system, connectivity and other methods of keeping tabs on abuse; however, the trait itself is an abomination.
 
highs2lows said:
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Arise, children of the Fatherland,
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us tyrannies
Bloody banner is raised,
Bloody banner is raised,
Do you hear, in the countryside,
The roar of those ferocious soldiers?
They're coming right into your arms
To cut the throats of your sons, your women!

To arms, citizens,
Form your battalions,
Let's march, let's march!
Lest an impure blood
Soak our fields!
 
ctulhuslp said:
It elevates a biggest faction above suppression; which means, narratively, that they are above the king's ability to tell them to fuck off. This is quite explicitely "above social order" situation and is the thing which annoys me.
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Since we're apparently developing the Ymaryn to become the perfect ideal of a modern civilization as soon as possible, albeit an impossible and inherently unrealistic one because communism, isn't part of the government gaining the ability to tell the absolute central ruler to fuck off a good thing?
 
PyroTechno said:
Since we're apparently developing the Ymaryn to become the perfect ideal of a modern civilization as soon as possible, albeit an impossible and inherently unrealistic one because communism, isn't part of the government gaining the ability to tell the absolute central ruler to fuck off a good thing?
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But it doesn't give that right to institutions. It gives that rights to a caste by birth. It literally puts the nobles above the law.
 
Susano said:
But they don't NEED to. Look, as it is, it will simply be nobles' uprising against the king. People will realize THAT is bad. And that's all we need. The Patricians will rise up, and that is basically gambling everything on one dice roll. If they lose that roll (and chances for that are good), they will be utterly fucked and unable to roll the dice again for quite some time. That gives use time to proof our system. Yes, we won't have human rights and stuff, but we didn't need such concepts so far, either.
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No, people will not necessarily realize it is bad, because they lack our OOC knowledge of IRL history and most of them lack our OOC knowledge of what really triggered their demands (anti-slavery).

PyroTechno said:
Since we're apparently developing the Ymaryn to become the perfect ideal of a modern civilization as soon as possible, albeit an impossible and inherently unrealistic one because communism, isn't part of the government gaining the ability to tell the absolute central ruler to fuck off a good thing?
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No, because it is actually patricians as a power block, not part of government. They are able to tell king to fuck off not as a separate branch of government, but as a faction: that is, as a power block united by shared class interests dictated by economic and/or cultural factors.

If it was separation of parliament and king, it would be one thing; but it is explicitly about most powerful faction, not "king cannot order around legislative branch".
 
I join the civil war. We can't let our factions keep threating that when they don't get what they want.

Can someone tell me what vote to choose for it.
 
PyroTechno said:
Since we're apparently developing the Ymaryn to become the perfect ideal of a modern civilization as soon as possible, albeit an impossible and inherently unrealistic one because communism, isn't part of the government gaining the ability to tell the absolute central ruler to fuck off a good thing?
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Never in the name of greed to support the pampered patrician faction tightening its grip on our culture with lifelong terms and no right to remove them. Thus bix once opened will never be closed. This is what fiat lead us to.
 
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10ebbor10 said:
Our nobles are not explicitedly heriditary.
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AN has said that only certain families ever have hopes to get positions of power. At best you can marry into an established family name.

WeaponX1023 said:
I join the civil war. We can't let our factions keep threating that when they don't get what they want.

Can someone tell me what vote to choose for it.
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[]Susano
(focused on intrigue missions against Patricians)
or
[]loserthree
(focused on enforce justice)
with the x in the brackets, of course.
 
ctulhuslp said:
DL is quite bearable with good enough internal police, justice system, connectivity and other methods of keeping tabs on abuse; however, the trait itself is an abomination.
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Don't suppose I can get you on-board with the civil war as the quickest way to damage/alter said trait?
WeaponX1023 said:
Can someone tell me what vote to choose for it.
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My vote (quoted below) approval-votes every non-DL option thus far proposed, thereby maximizing the chances that DL loses. I've been periodically updating it to account for new actions added in other plans, since I don't want to approval-vote the entire list of possible actions (that'd be hell on the tally for no good reason).
Wiadi said:
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] Proclaim Glory
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallion Pen
[X] [Secondary] Support Urban Poor
[X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians)
[X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians) x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City - Sacred Shore
[X] [Secondary] Art Patronage
[X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] More Warships x2

New and improved anti-DL approval vote.
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@ctulhuslp, I have to say that you have been wonderful to talk to, I mean that, I've been lurking for ages and my grasp on history is not as great as it is on the present. (Though I have looked up most of what I've been talking about...Spooky stuff.) Thank you.

Either way, I do wonder if we would get a GA choice of settling DL without causing Super bad Nobles is in the cards, cause that, along with a genius Admin / maybe Heroic Intrigue king to help weed out the bad apples and set an example would be my goal towards managing the situation...Cause if its not, and we don't get some Nobless Obligation trait then we may be up the creek without a paddle...Not that I'm saying that Nobles are the worse of our problems. (I'm just waiting for the bronze age Sea People * With iron weapons* to appear and stat raiding, or worse Merchant princes in the form slavers)
 
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[X]Susano
[X]loserthree

Thanks.

Man we have shit luck. I didn't think that excellence at all levels would have made them unsuppressable. I thought Arete was a different option.

[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] Proclaim Glory
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallion Pen
[X] [Secondary] Support Urban Poor
[X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians)
[X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians) x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City - Sacred Shore
[X] [Secondary] Art Patronage
[X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] More Warships x2
 
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Susano said:
[]Susano
(focused on intrigue missions against Patricians)
or
[]loserthree
(focused on enforce justice)
with the x in the brackets, of course.
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Oh, that reminds me. @Susano and @loserthree is there any chance I could convince you to consolidate onto my plan? It has the best chances of preventing Distribute Land, and at this point I'm pretty sure we need to focus exclusively on defeating it if we want even a chance at winning here.
 
Wiadi said:
Oh, that reminds me. @Susano and @loserthree is there any chance I could convince you to consolidate onto my plan? It has the best chances of preventing Distribute Land, and at this point I'm pretty sure we need to focus exclusively on defeating it if we want even a chance at winning here.
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Your plan literally encompasses both of ours... but it makes sense, voting explicitly against DL... hm...
 
ctulhuslp said:
No, because it is actually patricians as a power block, not part of government. They are able to tell king to fuck off not as a separate branch of government, but as a faction: that is, as a power block united by shared class interests dictated by economic and/or cultural factors.
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I get where you're coming from, but I think you're making a tiny mistake here:

You're separating the Patricians and the government.

The entire basis of power for the Patricians right now is that they're the hereditary trained administrator and military class. They are the people who order wars, and until recently they were the majority of the people that fought them. They count government coins, send government messages, and write official histories. They elect Kings. For Crow's sake, they invented a Senate just so they could be it and try to tempt over new players from r/prequelmemes!

This isn't the way to do what you want done here. Civil war is not the Ymaryn way. If you think they're wrong, invite them to your fire and convince them that you're right. But first, maybe try to build any faction whatsoever in the entirety of Ymar that agrees with your opinion, you know, as a powerbase?
 
So are we the WHF High elves now? Mhm, we need more culture.

Tally.
Adhoc vote count started by DkArthas on Dec 4, 2017 at 5:24 AM, finished with 139024 posts and 54 votes.
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