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Paths of Civilization

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Hey, guys! I would STRONGLY advise that we vote for
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
right now.

As it is, we are already spending 30+ non-econ stat points on Culture and Mysticism purchases, and then another 10 on Wealth purchases. It will take at LEAST a full turn to reestablish our overflow to Tech... and that is if nobody spends anything else. Given that we are pushing for stuff like Harbors, Warships, the GP, and so on, that isn't going to happen. To make matters worse, a lot of the latter expenses are concentrated in Tech, which means Tech could be an urgent problem very, very soon.

So can we not spend an extra 15 stat points for a project we don't especially need right now? Please?
 
[X] [Parl] Fair Land Allocation Act (Main Distribute Land, Patricians and Yeomen approve)
[X] [Lesson] The importance of maintaining training
[X] [Diplo] Begin Boundary Passage Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Diplo)
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Genius (-20 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)
 
bluefur87 said:
Hmm, I'm thinking on it, and I haven't read the thread too much because I don't have the time, but considering it costs diplo and it goes through Freehills land, who have no reason to let us do it since they control the straight, we might not be able to do it outside of a Golden Age bonus in the near future.
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What?

Totally totally wrong geography. It links us to the north east, Memory of Spirits and the Hawks.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Hey, guys! I would STRONGLY advise that we vote for
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
right now.
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I'd been stalling on what, if anything, to pick for most of the GA bonuses, other than "not the boundary passage," but you've got a point about the stat costs.

[X] [Diplo] Nothing

[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Celebrate (Sec Improve Annual Festival)
[X] [Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
 
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PrimalShadow said:
Hey, guys! I would STRONGLY advise that we vote for
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
right now.

As it is, we are already spending 30+ non-econ stat points on Culture and Mysticism purchases, and then another 10 on Wealth purchases. It will take at LEAST a full turn to reestablish our overflow to Tech... and that is if nobody spends anything else. Given that we are pushing for stuff like Harbors, Warships, the GP, and so on, that isn't going to happen. To make matters worse, a lot of the latter expenses are concentrated in Tech, which means Tech could be an urgent problem very, very soon.

So can we not spend an extra 15 stat points for a project we don't especially need right now? Please?
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Don't forget immediate costs from Mega Tracks! :V

Seriously people, we need a Nothing vote somewhere. I'm inclined to make it Diplo, but as long as it's one of them.
 
PrimalShadow said:
We are at 8/12 right now, and going down to 6/12 thanks to PSN. Even if we could activate all of our cities at once we wouldn't go over our cap - at least as long as we don't take EJ right now.
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Ah. We were at 8/10 before. Hence my worry, as we could easily activate 5 cities this turn with your plan, if someone takes a Boundary Passage Megaproject track, and we go down to 9 EE.

We may also have serious EE issues after this. The Yeomen can create six EE per Main action (which they'll only have one of if we reactivate any cities). We currently have sixteen EE costs next turn. That's a serious issue. We may need to deliberately pop some of our own cities.

8bitBob said:
Seriously people, we need a Nothing vote somewhere. I'm inclined to make it Diplo, but as long as it's one of them.
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We need two nothing votes. Next turn is going to be very expensive. Note that we'll probably be in a Gilded Age next turn as well.
 
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[X] [Lesson] The bonds between warriors
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)

[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)

[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)

[X] [Diplo] Alter Subordinate Management (-10 Diplo, -1 Diplo per landed subordinate/turn)
[X] [Diplo] Gain a Diplo Hero (-15 Diplo)

[X] [Culture] Nothing

[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)
[X] [Mystic] Gain a new Spiritual Value slot (-15 Mysticism)
 
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[X] [Parl] Dryad Housing Act (Main Expand Forest, Priests +1 Faction Power, Yeoman approve, Patricians disapprove)
Gives us leverage for the upcoming Patrician Smack with both the yeomen and priests.
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Cash Crops - Textiles (-2 Centralization + Costs)
Please to be getting rag paper production up.
[X] [React] Judge (Sec Enforce Justice)
[X] [React] Praise the Gods (Sec Build Temple)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
Raise stab, free up our spirit policy for libraries/academies, and find out if we can into Harmurri in one fell swoop
[X] [Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels
Let's just quietly plant the seeds for social mobility here.
[X] [Diplo] Boost all subordinate loyalty (-15 Diplo)
We need subordinate loyalty up now.
[X] [Culture] Begin Classical Law Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)
Thread the needles, baby! We makin' advanced intellectual society all up in dis bitch.
 
Glassware said:
Do we know it'll apply this turn? What was the precedent the last time we did a megaproject track?
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Yeah, like 99% sure now. From Golden Age Lightning Round, which was not a main:

[] [GA Tech] Begin Ironworks in its own action track (-3 Tech, -3 Culture, Costs of project, automatically completes 1 action towards project a turn, this turn included)
 
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Celebrate (Sec Improve Annual Festival)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)

[X] [Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Begin Classical Law Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)


This vote is made under the assumption that the Festival will actually do something (like negate the Gilded Age stability damage). AN has stated that it would, but that does not seem to correspond with our current numbers.

EE: 25 - 21 (3x Expand Econ) + 5 (refunds) +2 (Cement) +1 (Festival) = 12
This will turn on 3 of our cities, granting us +3 Secondary actions. This will be VERY useful.

Diplo is Nothing because we need to keep our stats high, starting the other two megaprojects to make sure our Megaproject Support has something to work on and because we really need both of those.

Glassware said:
Do we know it'll apply this turn? What was the precedent the last time we did a megaproject track?
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It did apply immediately last time, but it was also noted in the action that it would. I am unsure if that was specific to that one (since we had an Artisan Genius helping out the Ironworks) or if it was generic to the type.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Hey, guys! I would STRONGLY advise that we vote for
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
right now.

As it is, we are already spending 30+ non-econ stat points on Culture and Mysticism purchases, and then another 10 on Wealth purchases. It will take at LEAST a full turn to reestablish our overflow to Tech... and that is if nobody spends anything else. Given that we are pushing for stuff like Harbors, Warships, the GP, and so on, that isn't going to happen. To make matters worse, a lot of the latter expenses are concentrated in Tech, which means Tech could be an urgent problem very, very soon.

So can we not spend an extra 15 stat points for a project we don't especially need right now? Please?
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Fair enough, Boundary Pass is least important of stuff.

[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)

[X] [Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates
[X] [Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels

[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Celebrate (Sec Improve Annual Festival)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Praise the Gods (Sec Build Temple)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)

[X] [Diplo] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Begin Classical Law Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)
 
Citino said:
why does Alyx think the DL proposal is good?
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It seems well organized, the Patricians certainly have a point, and it generally makes sense to him.

Glassware said:
could you clear up what happens to our Econ Expansion when we expand econ over our limit? Is the excess refunded?
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You get refunded up to your refund limit, otherwise it gets burned up.

8bitBob said:
Will Mega Tracks perform 1 action for regular costs this same turn?
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They cost the normal amount, but they have their own actions to build them.
 
[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Celebrate (Sec Improve Annual Festival)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)

[X] [Lesson] The bindings between superiors and subordinates
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
[X] [Culture] Begin Classical Law Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Culture)
[X] [Mystic] Begin Great Library Megaproject in its own action track (-12 Mysticism)
 
Alratan said:
Ah. We were at 8/10 before. Hence my worry, as we could easily activate 5 cities this turn with your plan, if someone takes a Boundary Passage Megaproject track, and we go down to 9 EE.

We may also have serious EE issues after this. The Yeomen can create six EE per Main action (which they'll only have one of if we reactivate any cities). We currently have sixteen EE costs next turn. That's a serious issue.



We need two nothing votes.
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LTE is critical for understanding this. We only lose 3 LTE per turn as long as overflow is limited to our number of cities or less at once, and the Yeomen can add 6 LTE per Main.

PrimalShadow said:
Hey, guys! I would STRONGLY advise that we vote for
[X] [Diplo] Nothing
right now.

As it is, we are already spending 30+ non-econ stat points on Culture and Mysticism purchases, and then another 10 on Wealth purchases. It will take at LEAST a full turn to reestablish our overflow to Tech... and that is if nobody spends anything else. Given that we are pushing for stuff like Harbors, Warships, the GP, and so on, that isn't going to happen. To make matters worse, a lot of the latter expenses are concentrated in Tech, which means Tech could be an urgent problem very, very soon.

So can we not spend an extra 15 stat points for a project we don't especially need right now? Please?
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We should do Nothing on Culture instead, it's far more important for our Tech overflow...
 
To be honest, with the current internal problems, I'd be very tempted with:

[] [Diplo] Gain a Diplo Genius (-20 Diplo)
[] [Culture] Nothing
[] [Mystic] Nothing

That should help us resolve the mess we're in, and we can just get another Gilded Age pretty easily. We also produce and overflow into Diplomacy quickly. It would also work very nicely with the two React Diplomacy actions people want to take.
 
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Alratan said:
We may also have serious EE issues after this. The Yeomen can create six EE per Main action (which they'll only have one of if we reactivate any cities). We currently have sixteen EE costs next turn. That's a serious issue. We may need to deliberately pop some of our own cities.
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We don't actually have 16 points of EE costs a turn. I mean, we do, but those are EE costs, not LTE costs. Of those 16 points, 13 are actually mirrored by incoming Econ; in other words, as long as we spend at least that much Econ, we won't be losing EE.

The 3 EE we have are due to Yeomen being boosted and getting Forestry Policies out. And us doing one. Stupid Forestry Policies. They cost Tech too, by the way. Aren't they just wonderful?
 
8bitBob said:
Don't forget immediate costs from Mega Tracks! :V

Seriously people, we need a Nothing vote somewhere. I'm inclined to make it Diplo, but as long as it's one of them.
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To be honest, we're now getting 16 econ per turn out of thin air, so that helps with the overflow problem somewhat.

On a different note, I would like to ask people to reconsider the Lesson vote. In the end, during wars we can just throw giant armies at our enemies even without commanders, but we can't solve our loyalty problems that way. Lord's Loyalty is one of the main things binding our empire together, and we have a lot of subordinates to hold. More then that, healthy ties between superiors and subordinates will help our society in general, as those in position of power will not abuse said power so much, a problem that we have right now.
 
notgreat said:
This vote is made under the assumption that the Festival will actually do something (like negate the Gilded Age stability damage). AN has stated that it would, but that does not seem to correspond with our current numbers.

EE: 25 - 21 (3x Expand Econ) + 5 (refunds) +2 (Cement) +1 (Festival) = 12
This will turn on 3 of our cities, granting us +3 Secondary actions. This will be VERY useful.
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Why not skip out on festival, turn on an extra city, get an extra secondary, and use it for a festival NEXT turn? Saves us an action right now.
 
Alratan said:
To be honest, with the current internal problems, I'd be very tempted with:

[] [Diplo] Gain a Diplo Genius (-20 Diplo)
[] [Culture] Nothing
[] [Mystic] Nothing

That should help us resolve the mess we're in, and we can just get another Gilded Age pretty easily. We also produce and overflow into Diplomacy quickly. It would also work very nicely with the two React Diplomacy actions people want to take.
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Nothing isn't a listed option for Mystic
 
[X] [Parl] Dryad Housing Act (Main Expand Forest, Priests +1 Faction Power, Yeoman approve, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Forest (-2 Centralization + Costs)
And Fythhagyna said: let there be treeeeeeeeeeeeees!
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Genius (-20 Culture)
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
 
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[X] [Diplo] Nothing

[X] [Parl] Cement Production Subsidies (Main Increase Cement Production, Patricians disapprove)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Centralization + Costs)
[X] [React] Farm (Sec Expand Econ)
[X] [React] Contact Harmurri (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [React] Contact Freehills (Sec Diplomatic Mission)
[X] [Lesson] The importance of skilled commanders at all levels
[X] [Culture] Gain a Cultural Hero (-15 Culture)
 
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