No he didn't. He only named it as an option.



We've gotten stronger too. I'd prefer to focus on absorbing that strength so we can make full use of it rather than cutting ourselves to the bone to try and remove a potential threat.
What are you talking about? He literally said he wanted to deal with the Highlanders now rather than kicking down the road. Also the HK can utilize their strength far faster than we can due to their slavery, private land and type of government.
 
He's expressing worries over the rising inequality from the Gilded Age and war exhaustion but he also wants to deal with the Highlanders right now so that it's not a problem within a few generations. They have already grown stronger from this war so if you think we can handle them in the future where we may not have a martial genuis than so be it. But I'm not willing to take that risk espeically if they can spawn a martial hero at that time.

But we can remove their growth in strength without Levy. We do not need it to remove them from Lowlands, which will return them to square 1, only now with their army killed off and their last holdings in Lowlands nonexistent.

You know, I just ran the numbers, and with the current winning plan, before Policy actions other than the obligatory Dam, we are going to be at 18 Econ. 16 Econ after we lose 2 to SY drain due to Gilded Age stability loss.

That makes me kinda uncomfortable; what is our MP policy going to do with its extra actions? It can take two secondaries to cap out our Econ, but what then? We are spending little enough in our other stats and producing enough that overflow would largely go to Martial, which we don't exactly want (and which MP policy might not do anyways). Are those actions just going to be wasted? Or is the policy going to do something unexpected and possibly unpleasant?

In any case, it is clear that we don't actually need that may Expand Economy actions... which makes me question why we aren't going to Offensive Policy if that is the case.

[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Offensive
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] Dam
[X] [Secondary] Dam x2
[X] [Secondary] Expand Economy x3
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Survey Lands

If we do this, we will have 22 Econ, with the ability to get more at midturn or via PSN. We also have 3.5 main War missions instead of 1.5.


Do the Levy folks think this would make a reasonable compromise?

Well, it can always do the Dam faster if ordering goes such a way. Otherwise...well. I doubt MP Support will do something bad.
 
What are you talking about? He literally said he wanted to deal with the Highlanders now rather than kicking down the road.

He said he'd need the levy if he wanted to deal with them now rather than kicking them down the road.

Also the HK can utilize their strength far faster than we can due to their slavery, private land and type of government.

We'll see.

You know, I just ran the numbers, and with the current winning plan, before Policy actions other than the obligatory Dam, we are going to be at 18 Econ. 16 Econ after we lose 2 to SY drain due to Gilded Age stability loss.

That makes me kinda uncomfortable; what is our MP policy going to do with its extra actions? It can take two secondaries to cap out our Econ, but what then? We are spending little enough in our other stats and producing enough that overflow would largely go to Martial, which we don't exactly want (and which MP policy might not do anyways). Are those actions just going to be wasted? Or is the policy going to do something unexpected and possibly unpleasant?

In any case, it is clear that we don't actually need that may Expand Economy actions... which makes me question why we aren't going to Offensive Policy if that is the case.

[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Offensive
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] Dam
[X] [Secondary] Dam x2
[X] [Secondary] Expand Economy x3
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Survey Lands

If we do this, we will have 22 Econ, with the ability to get more at midturn or via PSN. We also have 3.5 main War missions instead of 1.5.


Do the Levy folks think this would make a reasonable compromise?

I'd be all right with this.
 
You know, I just ran the numbers, and with the current winning plan, before Policy actions other than the obligatory Dam, we are going to be at 18 Econ. 16 Econ after we lose 2 to SY drain due to Gilded Age stability loss.

That makes me kinda uncomfortable; what is our MP policy going to do with its extra actions?
Yeah, that's why I kinda want to go with the 5x Gym plan. ({M} Gym, {M} Gym x2, {S} Gym)

That all but guarantees at least 4 Expand Econ actions. It also gives us +12 Games rolls and +3 martial cap.
 
But we can remove their growth in strength without Levy. We do not need it to remove them from Lowlands, which will return them to square 1, only now with their army killed off and their last holdings in Lowlands nonexistent.



Well, it can always do the Dam faster if ordering goes such a way. Otherwise...well. I doubt MP Support will do something bad.
We can't remove their Khemeteri holdings at all since they aren't part of the lowlands. If we kick then out of the lowlands they still hold those colonies they seized, so yes they have grown in strength from this war and still hold the ability to cut off a province from us.
 
We can't remove their Khemeteri holdings at all since they aren't part of the lowlands. If we kick then out of the lowlands they still hold those colonies they seized, so yes they have grown in strength from this war and still hold the ability to cut off a province from us.

> Khemetri province
Ah, so in addition to passes you want to take that colony from them too? I thought you said you are only interested in protecting passes to us.
 
We can't remove their Khemeteri holdings at all since they aren't part of the lowlands. If we kick then out of the lowlands they still hold those colonies they seized, so yes they have grown in strength from this war and still hold the ability to cut off a province from us.
They got those provinces from other war, not that one.
 
You know, I just ran the numbers, and with the current winning plan, before Policy actions other than the obligatory Dam, we are going to be at 18 Econ. 16 Econ after we lose 2 to SY drain due to Gilded Age stability loss.

That makes me kinda uncomfortable; what is our MP policy going to do with its extra actions? It can take two secondaries to cap out our Econ, but what then? We are spending little enough in our other stats and producing enough that overflow would largely go to Martial, which we don't exactly want (and which MP policy might not do anyways). Are those actions just going to be wasted? Or is the policy going to do something unexpected and possibly unpleasant?

In any case, it is clear that we don't actually need that may Expand Economy actions... which makes me question why we aren't going to Offensive Policy if that is the case.

[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Offensive
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] Dam
[X] [Secondary] Dam x2
[X] [Secondary] Expand Economy x3
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Survey Lands

If we do this, we will have 22 Econ, with the ability to get more at midturn or via PSN. We also have 3.5 main War missions instead of 1.5.


Do the Levy folks think this would make a reasonable compromise?
This strikes me as splitting the vote for fairly dubious gains. This late in the game, choices are probably limited to pre-existing options; it's unfortunate but I'm not sure it's ultimately avoidable.

I don't think that the 2 extra Main war missions are worth the narrative effects on war exhaustion, and if we're looking for alternatives to Megaproject Support, I think Restoration or Balanced work much better in the short and medium term respectively.

Still, it's late and I might have missed something, so I'll review the plan in the morning.
 
So, nice platitude. Not sure how we can apply it.

Make friends with the Storm Ymaryn via political marriage so that mankind as a whole is more harmonious. Try to trigger Joyous Symphony with our own actions, which they may have as well.

Also, it's a warning of incoming climate disruption as man has been very inharmonious recently.
 
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> Khemetri province
Ah, so in addition to passes you want to take that colony from them too? I thought you said you are only interested in protecting passes to us.
I'm not interested in those colonies. I said they have grown stronger from this war which you disputed by saying the lowlands are all they took from this war, which is wrong.
 
*sees everything going on.*

*Internal Screaming at voting*

[X] Sivantic

@Sivantic don't be afraid to vote strategically if you can.

To everyone voting for megaproject policy. Stop it. A vote for megaproject policy is not a vote to stop the levy. A vote for megaproject policy is a vote to sabotage the war effort. If you want to stop the levy switch to offensive policy. Even if you get three war missions with the Highlanders, that is half of what you'd get from just being on offensive policy.

This way lies madness. Please, stop trying to switch to putting our province actions towards building a megaproject. of all things during a war. Because this war will continue for another turn if you do so. And you know what the provinces will do next turn when we fail to do enough damage to the Highlanders to decisively end the war? They'll build a megaproject, because you set them to that.

Priorities people.
 
To everyone voting for megaproject policy. Stop it. A vote for megaproject policy is not a vote to stop the levy. A vote for megaproject policy is a vote to sabotage the war effort. If you want to stop the levy switch to offensive policy. Even if you get three war missions with the Highlanders, that is half of what you'd get from just being on offensive policy.
Yep. It's just enough to push the HK out of the lowlands. It's ~50 martial worth of troops doing 3 war missions, backed by 5 light cavalry and a genius leader.

And yeah, next turn they'll finish the Dam. You make that sound like a bad thing? We kinda wanted the Damned Dam. It'll open up the Canal which will let us actually use the lowlands effectively.
 
Well, it can always do the Dam faster if ordering goes such a way.
We've always had Policies assume the worst possible ordering before acting, so I highly doubt we will luck out that way.

Otherwise...well. I doubt MP Support will do something bad.
I agree that it probably won't do something bad. But the fact is, there is basically nothing for the policies to do; I suspect that it might take one or two Balanced actions and then just stop, doing nothing with the rest. Alternatively, it might take a bunch of retraining actions instead of expand econ actions.

Isn't it better to put it to work doing War actions?
 
Warning For Marginal Behavior
Yep. It's just enough to push the HK out of the lowlands. It's ~50 martial worth of troops doing 3 war missions, backed by 5 light cavalry and a genius leader.

And yeah, next turn they'll finish the Dam. You make that sound like a bad thing? We kinda wanted the Damned Dam. It'll open up the Canal which will let us actually use the lowlands effectively.
Are you purposefully misinterpreting what I posted, or are you just really that stuck on your horse of wanting megaproject policy that you can't read into any criticism into it?

Because that is some serious misinterpretation there.
 
I'm not interested in those colonies. I said they have grown stronger from this war which you disputed by saying the lowlands are all they took from this war, which is wrong.

Fair enough if Khemetri are not going to have an issue with their colonies being conquered and if Freehills will not look with interest at them.

To everyone voting for megaproject policy. Stop it. A vote for megaproject policy is not a vote to stop the levy. A vote for megaproject policy is a vote to sabotage the war effort. If you want to stop the levy switch to offensive policy. Even if you get three war missions with the Highlanders, that is half of what you'd get from just being on offensive policy.

This way lies madness. Please, stop trying to switch to putting our province actions towards building a megaproject. of all things during a war. Because this war will continue for another turn if you do so. And you know what the provinces will do next turn when we fail to do enough damage to the Highlanders to decisively end the war? They'll build a megaproject, because you set them to that.

Priorities people.

Ymaryn are tired of total war. Don't think we did not notice turning off levy while we are turning off levy.
We are doing enough war missions to at the very least stalemate HK, probably remove them from Lowlands. All the cav and 3 merc companies are quite a lot.

Levy, if it eats even 1 Econ, will start literally starving us if we fail admin roll. Do you think it is worthwhile risk?

We've always had Policies assume the worst possible ordering before acting, so I highly doubt we will luck out that way.


I agree that it probably won't do something bad. But the fact is, there is basically nothing for the policies to do; I suspect that it might take one or two Balanced actions and then just stop, doing nothing with the rest. Alternatively, it might take a bunch of retraining actions instead of expand econ actions.

Isn't it better to put it to work doing War actions?

Problem is though, we cannot take Expand Econ on Offensive:
If you switch to Offensive, there will be a delay such that you will have to wait a phase, but for anything else you can.
 
Umm... Assuming you mean []Expand Economy there, that's apparently illegal
Oh. Annoying.

In that case:
[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Offensive
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] Dam
[X] [Secondary] Dam x2
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Survey Lands
 
Are you purposefully misinterpreting what I posted, or are you just really that stuck on your horse of wanting megaproject policy that you can't read into any criticism into it?

Because that is some serious misinterpretation there.
How so? If we get the Dam done while doing another 3 actions at the war next turn, I consider that worthwhile. It'd probably need the genius to nearly crit-fail or the HK to crit-success, but that's still a heck of a lot better than being in this same position next turn of almost-dead.
 
Oh. Annoying.

In that case:
[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Offensive
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] Dam
[X] [Secondary] Dam x2
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Survey Lands
You know, I like it. Time for approval voting.
[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Dam
[X] [Secondary] Dam x2
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] Retraining
[X] [Secondary] Retraining x2
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Offensive
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Mills
 
On a side note, I feel that if we do attack HK with Levy, we will not break them by the mid-turn. Their whole schtick is being fortified, and genius alone can't tumble walls.
Yeah, if we stay on Levy we can definitely kick them out of the lowlands in a single phase and probably take some of the passes (all if we get lucky) which is probably enough to start triggering iStO's downside, but that's still another 2-3 phases before they'd explode.
 
This strikes me as splitting the vote for fairly dubious gains. This late in the game, choices are probably limited to pre-existing options; it's unfortunate but I'm not sure it's ultimately avoidable.
You realize that it has only been a bit over 4hrs since the update came out? I don't think that counts as "this late in the game". Especially since AN doesn't update on Fridays, so we have at least another full day to change our voting.

I don't think that the 2 extra Main war missions are worth the narrative effects on war exhaustion, and if we're looking for alternatives to Megaproject Support, I think Restoration or Balanced work much better in the short and medium term respectively.
I would totally consider Balanced (or better yet, Trade), if not for the fact that it would force US to do the dam. What do we cut for it? The best I can think of is a EJ action and our 3rd war mission, which is rather painful.

Restoration is an idea. I'm guessing the policy would take:
{M} RoO
{M} Hunt Troublemakers
{M} Enforce Justice
{S} Enforce Justice
Which, honestly, we could totally use.


So that is another idea:
[X] [Main] Dam
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Restoration
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders x2
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders x3
[X] [Secondary] Expand Economy
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Survey Lands
 
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