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Paths of Civilization

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Approval vote :
highland kingdom delende est

not a plan intended to win ,
we should take the lowlands and attack the Highland core before ending the war,
we will be at war with the highlands again, now is a good(but costly) time to weaken them so we win the next war


[X] [Main] War Mission - Highlanders
[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Main] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders x2
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders x3
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders x4
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Gymnasium
[X] [Guild Secondary] Survey Lands


[X] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance
[ ] [Marriage] From one of the Forhuch tribes to secure their loyalty

We could use Storm Ymaryn military support against the Highlanders. With a marriage/alliance we could have their army join ours against the Highlanders.
With the Highlanders crippled, we would have time to integrate and recover before the next war.
 
Sivantic said:
ead what I actually wrote. I said levies or Offensive at the very least. Offensive is how use our regular military at its fullest.
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Offensive is the worst of both worlds: not enough to guarantee smashing them entirely, and does not help us recover.
We have 3 companies, enough cavalry to rival a small nomadic horde and a decent chunk of regular troops.

Sivantic said:
Except all plans are like that because all plans use up all our current Econ.
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Levy routinely eats Econ, so plan with it touching 0 is way worse than plan without it touching 0.
 
Chrestomanci said:
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders x2
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders x3
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Highlanders x4
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla x2
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In the current vote, our third war mission is competing with Integrating Txolla. You should probably drop the latter if you want the former to win.
 
ctulhuslp said:
What passes?
To the best of my knowledge they sit "below" those passes on the map, those are roughly along the shore. We would thus need to remove HK entirely to eliminate such possibility - because HK are "between" us and Gulvalley.



> better chance
> literally almost starving, only one FC remains, and people are explicitly

Yeah, no. This is not how a good chance looks like.
Levy is traumatizing enough to only be used against existential threat like nomads or peer power. HK are neither.



Please read what you quote:



He explicitly does not need anything but regular army and mercs to kick HK out of Lowlands. Levies are only needed for the final solution to Highlander question.
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Look at the map again and see how they can completely cut off Gulvalley and Hatshore.

From Epic Age V
. That was a level of crazy that was hard to deal with. Unfortunately, while the People had pushed the Highlanders back, the kingdom's core was hard and dense and they were not easily dislodged, especially from their positions in the west. This meant that the warriors in Gulvalley and Lower Hatvalley went nearly entirely unsupported for the entire time.
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Those passes are what I want to take from the HK. It gives us better defenses on our borders.
 
Sivantic said:
And I have a plan that addresses all that. It gives us all the economy we need, while still giving us Stability and ensuring we beat the Highlanders. When he said he needs our elites that mean to go Offensive policy at the least, not one or two war missions.
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This doesn't handle the signs of high war exhaustion from both the guilds and general population.

People confidently asserted that we had the mechanical ability to continue our war against the Trelli, and the cascade of events that stemmed from that choice have plagued us constantly for the past several turns. When we decided to drop out of the war without taking the straits, people moaned that we were never going to get a better chance to overthrow the Trelli and that we had just wasted a war.

And then, a few turns later, the Trelli exploded because of a crisis literally nobody saw coming. Now they don't even exist. In a stroke of next-level irony, they're now being run by the descendents of their slaves.

The same probably isn't going to happen to the Highland Kingdom, but it does illustrate a point. Another opportunity to crush the Highland Kingdom will come, and if we prepare and are patient, we can exploit the opportunity to its fullest. And, I'd like to note, we have access to Intrigue now, so if an opportunity doesn't present itself, we can simply create one. Repair, restock, rearm.

Sivantic said:
This right here. He needs the full might of the people. So either Offensive or Levies.
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In that quote, he specifically expresses his doubt over whether the Ymaryn can actually afford to keep the levies active.

Kiba said:
So, nice platitude. Not sure how we can apply it.
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Vague to the point of uselessness. Probably the only thing I can think of is that we should try synergistic social actions, and we're already doing EJ + RO.
 
ETA50M said:
Look at the map again and see how they can completely cut off Gulvalley and Hatshore.

From Epic Age V

Those passes are what I want to take from the HK. It gives us better defenses on our borders.
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They are passes to their west, not north, no?
Like, I would like better defences too, but not at pricing of flirting with starvation. And, like, Levy eats random amount of Econ. If Levy eats 0, it's fine; if it eats even 1, we have a chance of touching negative Econ.

Plus, again. Narrative says "people are tired". Collective psyche of Ymaryn is extremely war-weary due to basically total war. We cannot sustain it for much longer.
 
[X] [Main] Great Dam
[X] [Secondary] Annex - Great Hall
[X] [Secondary] Retraining
[X] [Secondary] Retraining x2
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order x2
[X] [Secondary] Survey Land
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Mills

[X] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance
 
ETA50M said:
Kill and purge?? All I want are those passes they control which lets them cut off Gulvalley from us. I couldn't careless about the HK beyond their ability to invade us.
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I also want that, but not enough to pay the staggering cost. Also there are elements within this thread who won't be content unless we invade the core. I don't want us to have the military we'd need to do that.

Sivantic said:
That is an extremely have your cake and eat way of looking at it
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It's more that I only want a slice of the cake, so I don't want to show up with a plate big enough to carry the whole thing.
 
ctulhuslp said:
They are passes to their west, not north, no?
Like, I would like better defences too, but not at pricing of flirting with starvation. And, like, Levy eats random amount of Econ. If Levy eats 0, it's fine; if it eats even 1, we have a chance of touching negative Econ.

Plus, again. Narrative says "people are tired". Collective psyche of Ymaryn is extremely war-weary due to basically total war. We cannot sustain it for much longer.
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We're in the final stretch and the genius himself said its better to finish them off now rather than having to deal with them once again in the future. They already hold the Khemetri colonies so they have already gained strength from this war even afyer we throw them out of the lowlands. All in all, they have become stronger and still hold a dagger to us.
 
[X] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance

[X] [Main] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order x2
[X] [Secondary] Retraining
[X] [Secondary] Retraining x2
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Gymnasium
[X] [Guild Secondary] Survey Lands
 
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ETA50M said:
We're in the final stretch and the genius himself said its better to finish them off now rather than having to deal with them once again in the future. They already hold the Khemetri colonies so they have already gained strength from this war even afyer we throw them out of the lowlands. All in all, they have become stronger and still hold a dagger to us.
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No, he said it is better if he can afford it. We have no reason to believe it won't hurt us more than we gain from it.
 
ctulhuslp said:
They are passes to their west, not north, no?
Like, I would like better defences too, but not at pricing of flirting with starvation. And, like, Levy eats random amount of Econ. If Levy eats 0, it's fine; if it eats even 1, we have a chance of touching negative Econ.

Plus, again. Narrative says "people are tired". Collective psyche of Ymaryn is extremely war-weary due to basically total war. We cannot sustain it for much longer.
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We don't need to sustain it for much longer. Just until midturn.
 
agumentic said:
Without rolls, those predictions are of little more use than a fortune cookie, really.

Other plans don't stay on Levy, so they don't risk losing econ from it.
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Considering we still have a Martial Genius and we do not need to go against 10+ Light Cavalry, there will be no risk in the first phase as that would be removing them from the lowlands. After that we get our income and results from our projects. There is ko risk unless you think he is going to crit fail...somehow.
Janadus said:
The same probably isn't going to happen to the Highland Kingdom, but it does illustrate a point. Another opportunity to crush the Highland Kingdom will come, and if we prepare and are patient, we can exploit the opportunity to its fullest. And, I'd like to note, we have access to Intrigue now, so if an opportunity doesn't present itself, we can simply create one. Repair, restock, rearm.
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And what we said then still follows. We would not have a martial genius to assist us, the Highlanders would be even stronger and the Harmurri unable to assist us.

Not taking care of it now only makes it worse.
 
ETA50M said:
Which he can
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Why do you think so if he doesn't?
Academia Nut said:
The People were thus up for kicking the Highlanders' teeth in and freeing their friends the Harmurri... but the People were also tired.

The cities were empty, with only Redshore really retaining its enormous urban flavour, although even that was diminished. The effort of the levies and the guilds to meet the demands of war had placed an enormous pressure upon the People, hollowing them out in ways. And yet there were traders and patricians who retained and had even grown much of their wealth and influence, leading to new things but also resentment. So much had been sacrificed, but where was their sacrifice?


Alyxunmyn worried about what to do next. He could dismiss many of the levies back to the cities and the farms, but he worried that he would need every man with him. If he wanted to kick the Highlanders out of the Harmurri territory and the lowlands in general he could probably do that with the elites and regulars, but if he wanted to actually do something about the Highlanders rather than kick the issue down the trail for another few generations he would need the full might of the People at his back. But could they afford it?
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agumentic said:
We don't need to sustain it for much longer. Just until midturn.
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Who says we can afford it? Our excellent admin hero is not sure.

Unless we want communist revolution due to uprising against rich merchants getting richer while the proletariat sacrifices everything for war, that is. If this is what you want, go ahead I guess.
 
Sivantic said:
And what we said then still follows. We would not have a martial genius to assist us, the Highlanders would be even stronger and the Harmurri unable to assist us.

Not taking care of it now only makes it worse.
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1. Axy is still young, and the thread is pretty united around its dislike of the Highlanders
2. The Highlanders would be weaker, since we just kicked them out of the lowlands and we know they've been overclocking themselves to pay for the war
3. I'm not sure why you think this would be the case
 
[X] [Main] Great Dam
[X] [Secondary] Annex - Great Hall
[X] [Secondary] Retraining
[X] [Secondary] Retraining x2
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Restore Order x2
[X] [Secondary] Survey Land
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Mills
[X] [Marriage] From one of the Forhuch tribes to secure their loyalty
Chrestomanci said:
[X] [Marriage] From the Storm Ymaryn to gain an alliance
[ ] [Marriage] From one of the Forhuch tribes to secure their loyalty

We could use Storm Ymaryn military support against the Highlanders. With a marriage/alliance we could have their army join ours against the Highlanders.
With the Highlanders crippled, we would have time to integrate and recover before the next war.
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I'm reasonably confident the SY are not able to assist in any way against the Highlanders. We'd have to trust them to walk their armies through the entirety of West Wall and our core before they reach the nearest Highlander territory. Or let them embark in Greenshore, and sail across our lake, then dock in our core.
 
You know, I just ran the numbers, and with the current winning plan, before Policy actions other than the obligatory Dam, we are going to be at 18 Econ. 16 Econ after we lose 2 to SY drain due to Gilded Age stability loss.

That makes me kinda uncomfortable; what is our MP policy going to do with its extra actions? It can take two secondaries to cap out our Econ, but what then? We are spending little enough in our other stats and producing enough that overflow would largely go to Martial, which we don't exactly want (and which MP policy might not do anyways). Are those actions just going to be wasted? Or is the policy going to do something unexpected and possibly unpleasant?

In any case, it is clear that we don't actually need that may Expand Economy actions... which makes me question why we aren't going to Offensive Policy if that is the case.

[X] [Main] Restore Order
[X] [Secondary] Switch Policy - Offensive
[X] [Secondary] Palace Annex - Grand Hall
[X] [Secondary] Dam
[X] [Secondary] Dam x2
[X] [Secondary] Expand Economy x3
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Guild] Build Mills
[X] [Guild] Build Mills x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Survey Lands

If we do this, we will have 22 Econ, with the ability to get more at midturn or via PSN. We also have 3.5 main War missions instead of 1.5.


Do the Levy folks think this would make a reasonable compromise?
 
ctulhuslp said:
Why do you think so if he doesn't?




Who says we can afford it? Our excellent admin hero is not sure.

Unless we want communist revolution due to uprising against rich merchants getting richer while the proletariat sacrifices everything for war, that is. If this is what you want, go ahead I guess.
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He's expressing worries over the rising inequality from the Gilded Age and war exhaustion but he also wants to deal with the Highlanders right now so that it's not a problem within a few generations. They have already grown stronger from this war so if you think we can handle them in the future where we may not have a martial genuis than so be it. But I'm not willing to take that risk espeically if they can spawn a martial hero at that time.
 
ETA50M said:
We're in the final stretch and the genius himself said its better to finish them off now rather than having to deal with them once again in the future.
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No he didn't. He only named it as an option.

ETA50M said:
They already hold the Khemetri colonies so they have already gained strength from this war even afyer we throw them out of the lowlands. All in all, they have become stronger and still hold a dagger to us.
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We've gotten stronger too. I'd prefer to focus on absorbing that strength so we can make full use of it rather than cutting ourselves to the bone to try and remove a potential threat.
 
Sasha's child will make a play for power and their mother will determine how much power is behind it! Which choice will make the progeny of Conquest least threatening to the People?
 
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