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Paths of Civilization

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Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Nov 8, 2017 at 8:51 PM, finished with 126805 posts and 38 votes.
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[X] [MP] Royal Investment (+1-2 Free Progress to Dam Project)
[X] [Ext] Find out more about what the Highlanders are up to (Main Trade Mission)
[X] [React] Expand Great Hall (2xGreat Hall Annexes)
[X] [Int] Attempt to tear out these maniacs, root and branch (-2 Intrigue, -1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, -1 RA, ???)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
[X] [MP] Trade Excitement (+10 Wealth, +1 Stability from Guild demands)
[X] [Int] Crack down on the puritans (-2 Intrigue, -1 to +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [Ext] Find out more about what the Highlanders are up to (Main Trade Mission)
[X] [React] Need more scouts (Sec More Blackbirds + Sec More Spiritbonded)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Cent + Costs)
[X] [React] Expand Great Hall (2xGreat Hall Annexes)
 
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[X] [Int] Crack down on the puritans (-2 Intrigue, -1 to +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [Ext] Find out more about what the Highlanders are up to (Main Trade Mission)
[X] [React] Need more scouts (Sec More Blackbirds + Sec More Spiritbonded)
[X] [React] Expand Great Hall (2xGreat Hall Annexes)
 
[X] [MP] Trade Excitement (+10 Wealth, +1 Stability from Guild demands)
[X] [Int] Crack down on the puritans (-2 Intrigue, -1 to +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [Ext] Find out more about what the Highlanders are up to (Main Trade Mission)
[X] [React] Need more scouts (Sec More Blackbirds + Sec More Spiritbonded)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)

I'm kinda dismayed seeing all the "root and branch" options after the unlock. Remider once again that this may be a general persecution of the puritan sect, rather than just dealing with the troublemakers. We would start a general pogrom.
 
Due to the low amount of voting before the lock there will be no update tonight. Don't get the thread locked again.

"Root and branch" here refers to a combination of political violence to execute, exile, and physically isolate a number of the major puritan priests and ringleaders while aggressively politically debating and isolating the root philosophies. Innocents and people undeserving of the punishments dealt it well get caught up in the process, but it is not intended to be a frenzied purge, although it could go sideways.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Wealth: 14 - 6(Scouts) - 2 (TM) + 5 (Overflow) = 13. Unacceptable if we want to get ships and army, because ~Guild Panic~.
New plan:
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Hmm if we are at 13 Wealth next main turn, we can spend 8 Wealth without going into Guild Panic mode.


[X] [MP] Trade Excitement (+10 Wealth, +1 Stability from Guild demands)
[X] [React] Need more scouts (Sec More Blackbirds + Sec More Spiritbonded)
[X] [Int] Crack down on the puritans (-2 Intrigue, -1 to +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)
[X] [Ext] Find out more about what the Highlanders are up to (Main Trade Mission)

I'm not gonna look at this too hard, I think we should be fine resource wise to do what ever we need to next turn except maybe the March.
 
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[X] [React] Need more scouts (Sec More Blackbirds + Sec More Spiritbonded)
[X] [React] Expand Great Hall (2xGreat Hall Annexes)
[X] [MP] Spread the Wealth Around (All Subordinates Receive +0-1 Loyalty)
[X] [Int] Crack down on the puritans (-2 Intrigue, -1 to +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [Ext] Find out more about what the Highlanders are up to (Main Trade Mission)
[X] [MP] Trade Excitement (+10 Wealth, +1 Stability from Guild demands)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
So, here's my gut reaction vote. Haven't really done the math for it.

[X] [MP] Trade Excitement (+10 Wealth, +1 Stability from Guild demands)
Gives us money and stab, both things that we always need more of.

[X] [Int] Attempt to tear out these maniacs, root and branch (-2 Intrigue, -1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, -1 RA, ???)
I've been an advocate for getting rid of Purity since the start, and it seems like this will be the best chance to do so. Even when tempered, I don't really like the connotations that a society that believes some are always more pure than others gives.

[X] [Ext] Find out more about what the Highlanders are up to (Main Trade Mission)
I want to see if the HK can be persuaded from fucking with us or the Hamurri.
If they can be, then we don't have to declare war. If they can't then we can fight a defensive war instead, and get the bonuses such a thing would give.


[X] [React] Need more scouts (Sec More Blackbirds + Sec More Spiritbonded)
We need that Gov Reform yesterday, but I can never say no to more ponies.

[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)
we're going to need to keep our econ up to build the Dam and Canal.
 
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Academia Nut said:
"Root and branch" here refers to a combination of political violence to execute, exile, and physically isolate a number of the major puritan priests and ringleaders while aggressively politically debating and isolating the root philosophies. Innocents and people undeserving of the punishments dealt it well get caught up in the process, but it is not intended to be a frenzied purge, although it could go sideways.
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Yeah, so mostly what we've done before with religion. Lock up the violent ones, have the priests debate the crap out of the subject (and considering our hero king mentioned their logic was pretty twisted, I'm pretty sure our priests will have the advantage in a debate) and tackle the root of purity issues.

Some innocent people might get wrapped up in it, but we really want to deal with this asap, and not let it fester.
 
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So uhhh, Marketplaces are absurd now. Absurd to the point that, if our Infrastructure policies don't immediately build them, I think we should use player actions to build level 1 Marketplaces in our cities if they don't. With Panem, if we built Marketplaces in our 7 cities, we would have a total of 15 wealth per turn. Bonkers stuff.

Also, it turns out that level 3 Infrastructure is 9 progress, not 12, as shown with the doubled cost level 3 Marketplace. Good to know.
 
8bitBob said:
So uhhh, Marketplaces are absurd now. Absurd to the point that, if our Infrastructure policies don't immediately build them, I think we should use player actions to build level 1 Marketplaces in our cities if they don't. With Panem, if we built Marketplaces in our 7 cities, we would have a total of 15 wealth per turn. Bonkers stuff.

Also, it turns out that level 3 Infrastructure is 9 progress, not 12, as shown with the doubled cost level 3 Marketplace. Good to know.
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Though that would require that we have 7 cities running, which would be... Problematic, I suspect.
 
8bitBob said:
So uhhh, Marketplaces are absurd now. Absurd to the point that, if our Infrastructure policies don't immediately build them, I think we should use player actions to build level 1 Marketplaces in our cities if they don't. With Panem, if we built Marketplaces in our 7 cities, we would have a total of 15 wealth per turn. Bonkers stuff.

Also, it turns out that level 3 Infrastructure is 9 progress, not 12, as shown with the doubled cost level 3 Marketplace. Good to know.
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I probably would not go for that next turn, considering that we have a lot of things to deal with and our wealth income is not negative so a Marketplace immediately is not needed to correct that.
 
[X] [MP] Trade Excitement (+10 Wealth, +1 Stability from Guild demands)
[X] [Int] Crack down on the puritans (-2 Intrigue, -1 to +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [Ext] Find out more about what the Highlanders are up to (Main Trade Mission)
[X] [React] Expand Great Hall (2xGreat Hall Annexes)
[] [PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Cent + Costs)

[MP] +1 Stability ensures a Golden Age despite the [Int] potentially costing Stability. The Golden Age is the primary benefit here, all three listed options are about the same math-wise. (the +Loyalty option might be a bit more efficient, but the potential loss of the Golden Age isn't worth it)
The [Int] option has been thoroughly debated by now and I am on the side of not taking down those who are not hostile.
[Ext] is to figure out what's going on in more detail and give us information on if we need to go to war or not.
[React] is the hardest to really say what we should do. I'm going Expand Great Hall because I think that getting that government upgrade ASAP would be very nice. More Scouts would be pretty reasonable as well, I have no problem with either.
[PSN] is dependent on question below.

Desired passives:
1) Infrastructure x3
2) Skullduggery
3) Defense x2
4) Infrastructure x4

Level 1 Markets are now insanely powerful now. Like, actually insane. Level 2 ones aren't worth much, and Level 3 ones seem to be powerful but seem somewhat risky and are very expensive. Getting the 3rd Infrastructure passive is very important for getting the necessary baths and markets, plus getting the temple for the quest done.

Skullduggery is a ton better than the action version, and we're starting to run a bit low on Intrigue.


@Academia Nut
1) Was there actual syngery between the Snail Cultivation and Dam actions, or was that just fluff?
2) Do we need to manually remove the mercs from our main budget martial costs?
3) If we get our EE below the city-forming limit right now, will we get their policies and other benefits during the next main turn?

if 2) is true, we should probably remove one of them now.

If 3) is true,
[] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)
This will overflow into Martial and drop our EE a bit. Rural Plague is gone now, which prevents us from losing too much LTE (though we will still lose some). Getting a couple extra passives would be very nice right now. If not, Forests is something we need to do to make up for the glassworks.
 
Also, for those making the argument that this will damage our Justice trait, keep in mind that the trait is Greater Justice.
Academia Nut said:
Pros: Justice is a community objective that can be served through the careful application of punishment
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Pretty clear that doing something like this that benefits the community as a whole is well in line with this option.
 
8bitBob said:
7 is easy, as it includes our free cities. Doubly so if we complete the Urban Poor quest (which we should.)
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I think what Citino is saying is that having seven cities can by itself be problematic.

Remember that the Horsemans plague was only so bad because of all the negative disease roll penalties we got from having so many cities in one area.
 
[X] [MP] Spread the Wealth Around (All Subordinates Receive +0-1 Loyalty)
[X] [React] Expand Great Hall (2xGreat Hall Annexes)
[X] [Int] Attempt to tear out these maniacs, root and branch (-2 Intrigue, -1 Stability, -1 Legitimacy, -1 RA, ???)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
Raichu1972 said:
I think what Citino is saying is that having seven cities can by itself be problematic.

Remember that the Horsemans plague was only so bad because of all the negative disease roll penalties we got from having so many cities in one area.
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Pretty much. We can handle the stated mechanics of having 7 cities pretty easily, since we have Ironworks and markets to buff our econ and wealth generation, but there's a lot of background things that we will struggle to deal with.
 
Do we know if Stability overflows to something? If we get +2 stab at 3, do we cap at 4 and 'lose' as stab, or does it get transferred to something else?
 
ExNihilo said:
Do we know if Stability overflows to something? If we get +2 stab at 3, do we cap at 4 and 'lose' as stab, or does it get transferred to something else?
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We lose it.

Well, we Doylisticly "lose" it but I imagine AN would do some stuff in the narrative to reward us. Maybe he might also roll a baby boom or something? *shrug*
 
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