Paths of Civilization

agumentic · Oct 31, 2017

Huh? Maybe I misread tally, but winning actions are salt gift/stability/one influence, no?

PrimalShadow · Oct 31, 2017

ExNihilo said:
It looks like double influence is winning-can we afford that?

Take a second look. Double influence is behind by a great deal; winners are inflence + salt gift + stability.

Kiba · Oct 31, 2017

History is repeating itself.

Remember how we got Land of Opportunity? Same thing we did with Pure Riders. Now, we're doing a salt gift to a (hopefully) trader nomad.

George · Oct 31, 2017

Ideas while we await actual stats.

[] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[] [React] Contact more distant relations (Sec Trade Mission to Highlanders and Western People)
[] [PSN] Main Expand Econ (-2 Cent + Costs)

Marlin · Oct 31, 2017

Academia Nut said:
And then the messenger from the east came with news from the former Mountain Horse territory... a new chieftain had united the tribes scattered by the Pure in the last generation and absorbed the damage from the plague, and was now moving his people into the hills and passes of the Mountain Horse territory, as well as claiming stewardship of the semi-mythical Salt Sea Route.

~~What is the Pure? A plague? a religion?~~
Edit: Nevermind I just realized it was the nomad chief.

PrimalShadow · Oct 31, 2017

I'm thinking something like this next turn:
{M} Expand Forest
{M} Proclaim Glory
{S} Restoration of Order
{S} Support Thunder Horse
{S} Change 2x Forestry Policy -> 2x Infrastructure Policy
{GM} Plant Cotton
{GM} Plant Cotton x2
{GS} Plant Cotton

So here are the main themes of this vote:
1) Expand Forest and Plant Cotton, hopefully pushing towards paper.
2) Plant lots of Cotton, restoring our wealth so we have something to spend next turn.
3) Restore our stability, hopefully to cap.
4) Support the overly dependent thunder-horse if they still need it. If they don't, some other action can fill this slot.
5) Swap our Forestry policy. We were going to do this anyways once we got invested actions; doing it right now just means we can get it in time to help us build the Market.

Thoughts?

PrimalShadow · Oct 31, 2017

Marlin said:
What is the Pure? A plague? a religion?

"The Pure" are the Nomad Clan we just finished fighting off. You know, the guys who thought agriculture needed to be purged, and who killed off the Mountain Horse and Thunder Speakers, leaving only the Thunder Horse as an etymological compromise.

RideTheWalrus · Oct 31, 2017

[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Contact closest neighbours (Sec Trade Mission to Freehills and Harmurri)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)

Malevolo · Oct 31, 2017

[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)

8bitBob · Oct 31, 2017

Kiba said:
Hemp works too for paper.

Hemp works, but we need wealth at the moment, not diplo and tech. Thus, Cotton instead of Poppies, not Cotton instead of Hemp.

DakkaMania · Oct 31, 2017

PrimalShadow said:
Thoughts?

Thunder Horse already got an Influence from the King.

If it's still there, I recommend we target Greenshore or Tinriver with it next.

I'm supportive of Cotton over Poppies as introducing a flood of (still sub par) opiates in a stressful time doesn't seem like a good idea.

I'm not sure about how we fulfill the quests, but I assume the Provinces and Policies will handle a lot of that. And we will probably auto-fail the Yeomen quest as I have no idea where we can get 30 EE. Or even if we want to.

HeWhoAdds · Oct 31, 2017

[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)x2
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)

I suspect that, given that Tinriver has only recently matured into a colony, they'll be the least likely to break away. Hopefully we can influence our subordinates enough to keep them loyal with one Main Influence, but I'd prefer two.

ThatGazzer · Oct 31, 2017

[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)

veekie · Oct 31, 2017

DakkaMania said:
I'm supportive of Cotton over Poppies as introducing a flood of (still sub par) opiates in a stressful time doesn't seem like a good idea.

This particular concern isn't yet. The stuff is FAR too expensive for anyone but the wealthiest traders and patricians to bliss out.

And due to Life of Arete, anyone who does so won't be a patrician for much longer.

PrimalShadow · Oct 31, 2017

DakkaMania said:
Thunder Horse already got an Influence from the King.

Thunder Horse got SUPPORT from the King, not Influence.
And that is a good thing! They were at 7/5 dependency; in other words, really messed up. I expect their dependency to go down to 6/5 thus turn, which would still be pretty messed up; in that case, we should help them out more.

If they don't need help, sure, we can probably use the secondary to influence one of our other vassals.

DakkaMania said:
I'm not sure about how we fulfill the quests, but I assume the Provinces and Policies will handle a lot of that. And we will probably auto-fail the Yeomen quest as I have no idea where we can get 30 EE. Or even if we want to.

We probably want to fail the 30 EE quest, yeah. Getting that much EE is liable to pop our free cities, and we reallydon't want that.

Kiba · Oct 31, 2017

PrimalShadow said:
I'm thinking something like this next turn:
{M} Expand Forest
{M} Proclaim Glory
{S} Restoration of Order
{S} Support Thunder Horse
{S} Change 2x Forestry Policy -> 2x Infrastructure Policy
{GM} Plant Cotton
{GM} Plant Cotton x2
{GS} Plant Cotton

So here are the main themes of this vote:
1) Expand Forest and Plant Cotton, hopefully pushing towards paper.
2) Plant lots of Cotton, restoring our wealth so we have something to spend next turn.
3) Restore our stability, hopefully to cap.
4) Support the overly dependent thunder-horse if they still need it. If they don't, some other action can fill this slot.
5) Swap our Forestry policy. We were going to do this anyways once we got invested actions; doing it right now just means we can get it in time to help us build the Market.

Thoughts?

It's missing Dam-kun.

Candesce · Oct 31, 2017

PrimalShadow said:
Getting that much EE is liable to pop our free cities, and we reallydon't want that.

The Yeomen might, though.

Kiba · Oct 31, 2017

Candesce said:
The Yeomen might, though.

We can support them and let them fail the quest. We need to bring the yeomen in line with the Patricians, the Guild, and the Urban Poor.

Astra Stargazer · Oct 31, 2017

[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Contact closest neighbours (Sec Trade Mission to Freehills and Harmurri)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Cent + Costs)

8bitBob · Oct 31, 2017

Candesce said:
The Yeomen might, though.

Kiba said:
We can support them and let them fail the quest. We need to bring the yeomen in line with the Patricians, the Guild, and the Urban Poor.

This definitely seems like a temper tantrum quest since we've been shitting on them for generations now. "If you don't destroy all the cities then I'm gonna start problems!"

A little Support so they can evolve probably wouldn't be remiss. They're certainly not getting that quest completed though.

PrimalShadow · Oct 31, 2017

@Academia Nut - will there be refugees this turn?

8bitBob · Oct 31, 2017

@Academia Nut

Can we see the Academy action since our awesome King didn't take it?

Last time I'll ask, I promise

veekie · Oct 31, 2017

PrimalShadow said:
Thunder Horse got SUPPORT from the King, not Influence.
And that is a good thing! They were at 7/5 dependency; in other words, really messed up. I expect their dependency to go down to 6/5 thus turn, which would still be pretty messed up; in that case, we should help them out more.

If they don't need help, sure, we can probably use the secondary to influence one of our other vassals.

IIRC last time we saw 6/5 was "they would collapse entirely if unsupported". 7/5 is probably just wobbling at the very edge.

PrimalShadow said:
We probably want to fail the 30 EE quest, yeah. Getting that much EE is liable to pop our free cities, and we reallydon't want that.

Its not like we can't spend past that REALLY fast...Redshore at the least is probably not popping at all.

Ghostdevil · Oct 31, 2017

All our merc groups have low loyalty

3/5

PrimalShadow · Oct 31, 2017

veekie said:
Its not like we can't spend past that REALLY fast...Redshore at the least is probably not popping at all.

Yeah, but I would be surprised if popping Free Cities in general didn't cause problems, even if we only did it for a moment.

Not to mention that it holds up our ability to use Plant <Good> actions, thereby leaving us stuck at low Wealth.

Overall, I just don't think it is worth pursuing.

Paths of Civilization

Minds Eye Bind

Comma Queen

The Devil of Ghosts