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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)x2
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)
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[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)

I really would love to use more actions to reconnect with our vassals, but I do not think we can afford ít.

We need to greet the new chief - we cannot afford another war.
We also need higher stability/legitimacy to be able to solve the enclave problems.

So just Western Wall.
 
Killer_Whale said:
Guess who else has sacred warding, ie lots of cows. I wonder how they're surviving?
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Our entire Sacred Warding herd was safe.
Turns out when the cows are tended to by elites, segregated from all the regular cows for the purpose of controlling cowpox transmission in an unbroken chain, and regularly bathed to avoid other diseases hitching a ride...they are a completely healthy body of cow.

Khemetri's herd likewise.
TotallyNotEvil said:
I'm not sure on that, here they are already halfway through breaking. They are seriously probing for the possibility to fully cut ties.

We need to come down hard on them, or it shows enough weakness that they will feel confident enough in commiting.
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Showing weakness is our low Stability however. Thats the biggest factor here. And if we get attacked by Nomads we can't help BUT show weakness. By reeling Western Wall in they lose all their iron mines for starters. Thats a big difference. Then we hit them one after another one turn after another.

We know that the final deciding factor for a breakaway is our Stability balance here. Raising stability improves public confidence, which lowers their confidence in getting away with it.
PrimalShadow said:
Nope. There is no indication that that is happening. What IS happening is that there are enough of these people that "there were now enclaves of People who many thought of as being universally tainted".

So the problem is that the Ymaryn are starting to culturally internalize ghettoing, not that all our outcasts are banding together.
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Also we didn't even deliberately ghetto the half exiles. We just generated enough EE that the cities popped and the half exiles decided to head to the new foreign settlements where they might not be oppressed(they wish).
Quest said:
the difference seems kinda moot, since shoving the people we don't like in the same place will cause them to band together anyway.
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There is a significant difference at this early stage. Later, no, it'd be the same thing once the enclaves become a fixture. But right now it's just a bunch of similarly unhappy people grouping together by natural forces(aside from the seed population of refugees)
 
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On the plus side, since the only early wave "Thunder Horse" related culture left is ours, the worry they would flip to Mountain Horse if Loyalty got low is gone, which is nice. Though the method is kinda terrible.

On a similar note, our vassals tend to have higher loyalty than our colonies, despite the cultural thing. I find this amusing.
 
PrimalShadow said:
Here are the stat values that we (mostly) have as of now, including the Yeomen reward; AN may very well make some changes

Stat Values
Diplomacy 25
Economy 24
-EE 21
-SF 27{32}/30
Martial 7
-LC 3
Wealth 8
Culture 27
Mysticism 27(+8)
Tech 23(+8)

Stability 0
Centralization 8~10
RA 7{14}

*Possible +1 Culture (overflows to +1 Tech) if True Cities do still produce 1/2 Culture each.
*Likely Econ loss from Plague Rotted Economy
*Assumes a Religious Settlement gives +1 EE and nothing else.
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I don't think we get the +1 EE from the Religious Settlement, actually. Could be wrong there, though.

PrimalShadow said:
I agree with all these points narratively, but mechanically, this takes us super-deep into negative wealth.

Just this turn, we go:
8 Wealth (starting)
-8 (Main salt gift)
-2 (Influence subordinate)
--------------------------------
-2 Wealth total.

Since we are spending enough not to get any overflow into Wealth, this will immediately be followed up with us getting MORE negatives, since our wealth income is currently negative.

Lets not play this game, eh?
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Main influence is -3 wealth, actually, so even worse

PrimalShadow said:
Here is our wealth income for next turn:
Maintainance
-1 (PK upkeep)
-1 (Academy Upkeep)
-1 (Iron Age Law Upkeep)
-3 (Doubled Innovation Cost on our Base Innovation, Harbor Innovation, and Innovation Policy)

Units
-3 (Unit Upkeep) Units paid from main budget

Trade
+1.5 Redshore Market
+1 Valleyhome Market Valleyhome is not currently a city
+3 Strategic Goods No External Trade
+3 Luxury Goods No External Trade
+1 Salterns (Southshore, Northshore)
+1 Gold Mines (<Unknown Province>, Heaven's Hawk)
+0.5 Salt Mines (Heaven's Hawk)
+1 Salt/Gold Trading (Amber Road, Grand Docks) No External Trade

Total
Either [-3] or [-2], depending on where the 2.5 income from gold/salt combines with the 1.5 income from the Markets to make +4, or if Salt/Gold and Marketplaces each take their own totals and round down for a total of 2+1=3.
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You forgot the bonuses from trade posts/grand docks for the salt/gold income. That will give us either 3 or 3.5 income for gold/salt (depending on if we've got contact with amber road again).
Also, the <Unknown Province> is apparently Hatvalley; AN answered my question about that after he copied my EP tracker for that update.

Edit:
Also, since my skimming suggests its a contentious part of the vote but actually an obvious choice with the actual wealth stats, voting for PSN now even if haven't looked enough at other choices:
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
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I'm of the opinion we should spend all of our guild actions next turn planting stuff. Altogether, that should be enough to get us close to our wealth cap.

It would cost is a bit less than a main worth of Econ, and a TON of LTE, but we kinda need to drop that LTE anyways if we want to get our capital back, so that's not so bad.
 
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PrimalShadow said:
I'm of the opinion we should spend all of our guild actions next turn planning stuff. To altogether, that should be enough to get us close to our wealth cap.

It would cost is a bit less than a main worth of Econ, and a TON of LTE, but we kinda need to drop that LTE anyways if we want to get our capital back, so that's not so bad.
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Oh, PLANTING stuff. I'm tentatively OK unless we really need the forests, but when I read planning I was very confused.
 
PrimalShadow said:
I'm of the opinion we should spend all of our guild actions next turn planting stuff. Altogether, that should be enough to get us close to our wealth cap.

It would cost is a bit less than a main worth of Econ, and a TON of LTE, but we kinda need to drop that LTE anyways if we want to get our capital back, so that's not so bad.
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If we do this, I am of the opinion that it should be Cotton, not Poppies. I want paper.
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)
[X] [React] Contact closest neighbours (Sec Trade Mission to Freehills and Harmurri)
[X] [PSN] Main Expand Forests (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
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[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)

Don't care too much about the others, but let's at least try to limit the damage on this issue.
 
ExNihilo said:
It looks like double influence is winning-can we afford that?
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Double influence is cheaper than the trade missions, as far as wealth goes. Main influence is 3 wealth, while each secondary trade mission is -2 wealth

Edit: Wait, nevermind, i was thinking the votes were different than they were from my skimming, ignore me; its the stability option that would be replaced, not trade missions
 
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There are some good arguments about thw first vassal action being the most necessary, with others being able to wait. Not voting for it because of the winning second vassal action.

[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Greet new nomad chief (Main Targeted Salt Gift)
[X] [PSN] Main Plant Poppies (-2 Cent + Costs)
 
[X] [Enclave] Attempt to reconcile issues (-1 Stability, -4 Mysticism, -6 Culture, ???)
[X] [React] Restore confidence after the plague (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[X] [React] Contact closest neighbours (Sec Trade Mission to Freehills and Harmurri)
[X] [React] Attempt to get the western colonies in line (Main Influence Subordinate - Starts with Western Wall, x2 also goes to Greenshore, x3 goes to Tinshore)

I'm not a big fan of spending resources appeasing the nomads. Hopefully they will attack one of the easier targets like the Harmurri rather than us. If not, we can deal with them later. Also, remember that the astrological prediction encouraged talking to others, so I think a trade mission would be a good idea.
 
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